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Interjecting an opinion.
Whatever other changes they made to the Tarrasque in Inner Sea Gods, changing it from a neutral alignment actually made it vulnerable and easier for PCs to handle.
Not saying if that's good are bad, just saying that now you can get aligned weapons to smack it with. (When it was neutral, it didn't care if your weapon was holy / unholy / axiomatic / chaotic).
If PCs are high enough level that facing it with proper equipment may be an option, they can usually afford to craft or buy aligned weaponry.
That does help with martial PC a lot, but spellcasters don't have many damage dealing aligned spell options that I can think of off the top of my head. Even then they are narrowed down by SR and the beast's reflective shell.
The Tarrasque presented in the ISG book is now a gate-able creature that any follower of Rovagug can now summon and is a herald at that.
Not just any follower, one that is both mythic (forget what tier off hand) and access to 9th lvl spells. Otherwise Summon Spawn doesn't give you the named Spawn.
I wonder what other setting specific changes we can make?
So what's this about it not being neutral now?
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I wonder what other setting specific changes we can make?
So what's this about it not being neutral now?
It takes after Daddy now. D:
Before the Tarrasque in Golarion was a bit of an odd duck because it was a neutral Spawn of Rovagug. The change in Inner Sea Gods brings it in line with the rest of the family.
So he's less force-of-nature/Godzilla now and more of an intentionally malicious creature.
Not just any follower, one that is both mythic (forget what tier off hand) and access to 9th lvl spells. Otherwise Summon Spawn doesn't give you the named Spawn.
I have not read that in the description.
Emissary (Ex)
Heralds can always be summoned by the faithful using greater planar ally or gate, regardless of limitations of that spell, even if it's not an
outsider.
I believe the new Tarrasque presented in ISG is an emissary/herald (page 275 of ISG).
Though a few questions otherwise:
Unstoppable Force (Ex)
A spawn can always charge, even if its movement is impeded or its path is blocked by another creature. It receives a +20 racial bonus on combat maneuver checks to overrun and Strength checks to break or destroy objects, and can make one such check as a free action as part of a charge. In addition, the natural weapons of a spawn ignore all forms of damage reduction and hardness.
Does this mean it can theoretically charge when under the effects of an imprisonment spell?
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No. It means that if another creature is blocking its path or an obstacle
or difficult terrain, caltrops, a low wall, a flaming sphere, etc is in the way then it can still charge. Even if shackled with a literal ball and chain, it could still charge as that only impedes the movement but does not stop it completely.
The ISG tarrasque does not have the herald subtype, thus no Emissary ability. It cannot be summoned with greater planar ally (too many hit dice), or gate (it's not extraplanar).
So he's less force-of-nature/Godzilla now and more of an intentionally malicious creature.
I don't think it was ever intended as a Godzilla expy. Pathfinder now has King Mogaru for that.
I think its okay for Pathfinder to iterate on classic monsters for their campaign setting. We loved Misfit Monsters Redeemed for that, after all.
One other cool point is that the Tarrasque also gains the Spawn of Rovagug subtype. The big thing there is that the tarrasuqe now ignores all forms of Damage Reduction and hardness, which is biting, to say the least.
Also, no more discussions about drowning it.
Also, no more discussions about drowning it.
Why not? Is it amphibious, and I just missed it in the description?
Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible), if you can penetrate the SR 36 you can still plane shift it to a major positive-dominant plane like the positive energy plane and it will eventually explode... it's got to roll a 1 on a Fortitude save some time.
Though with how regeneration reads, it would still come back in three rounds and explode again in an indeterminate number of rounds (roughly 120+) if no one is assaulting the remains after it explodes.
While it was an odd place to put it, Rovagug's article on p. 131 explains that the Spawn can't be brought forth by planar ally or gate spells.
The non-mythic version of spawn calling brings in a nameless advanced entropic thunder behemoth.
The mythic version can bring in a named spawn, though at significant cost - it takes 16 uses of mythic power to bring forth the Tarrasque!
That might be the most mythic power intensive spell in the game so far.
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Also, no more discussions about drowning it.Why not? Is it amphibious, and I just missed it in the description?
Check out the Hibernation ability for the spawn of Rovagug subtype (page 275):
Hibernation (Ex) Spawn of Rovagug can sleep for years, decades, or even centuries and do not need to eat or breathe during these periods of dormancy. If a spawn of Rovagug is forced into an environment where it cannot breathe and would suffocate, it goes into hibernation until conditions are right for it to reawaken. While in hibernation, a spawn of Rovagug’s damage reduction improves to 50/epic and it gains immunity to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance as well as all divination effects.
Also, no more discussions about drowning it.Why not? Is it amphibious, and I just missed it in the description?Check out the Hibernation ability for the spawn of Rovagug subtype (page 275):
Hibernation (Ex) Spawn of Rovagug can sleep for years, decades, or even centuries and do not need to eat or breathe during these periods of dormancy. If a spawn of Rovagug is forced into an environment where it cannot breathe and would suffocate, it goes into hibernation until conditions are right for it to reawaken. While in hibernation, a spawn of Rovagug’s damage reduction improves to 50/epic and it gains immunity to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance as well as all divination effects.
Ah... very cool then.
Rovagug: RELEASE THE KRACKEN!
Yigachek: Uhhmmm, it's the Tarrasque, sir.
Rovagug: ...whatever. Just wake it up and make it RAMPAGE!
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Hibernation (Ex) Spawn of Rovagug can sleep for years, decades, or even centuries and do not need to eat or breathe during these periods of dormancy. If a spawn of Rovagug is forced into an environment where it cannot breathe and would suffocate, it goes into hibernation until conditions are right for it to reawaken. While in hibernation, a spawn of Rovagug’s damage reduction improves to 50/epic and it gains immunity to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance as well as all divination effects.So dump it in a really deep ocean (there's probably a Mariana Trench expy somewhere on Golarion), and since it can't breathe underwater it goes into hibernation? Makes for a good short-term method of getting rid of it, until/unless some idiot decides to bring it back out again.
I agree somewhat... but dramatic odds are a Mariana Trench like area in Golarion is where some aboleth types hang out... who are dumb enough to think they can manipulate this monstrosity, so they graft some gills on it. Then water isn't the temporary impediment it once was...
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So dump it in a really deep ocean (there's probably a Mariana Trench expy somewhere on Golarion), and since it can't breathe underwater it goes into hibernation? Makes for a good short-term method of getting rid of it, until/unless some idiot decides to bring it back out again.
I like that a lot. So many Lovecraftian vibes to it... dead Tarrasqeue lies dreaming below the waves until the time is right for it once more to arise and consume.
Nope, look at the bolded text a couple of posts up. It just goes to sleep.
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The easiest thing I could come up with to get rid of the Tarrasque is getting someone to put a Portable Hole inside a Bag of Holding while riding the Tarrasque.
Okay, so it's a little dangerous and someone ends up in the Astral Plane along with the Tarrasque. (Unless you use an Unseen Servant) It's still funny as hell.
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The easiest thing I could come up with to get rid of the Tarrasque is getting someone to put a Portable Hole inside a Bag of Holding while riding the Tarrasque. . . .
Nah. It's just one expensive arrow. However, I imagine everything on the astral plane with the ability to not be there will come to the prime material plane looking for whoever dropped Big T on their doorstep looking for reparations, optionally in the blood form.
I am sorry but no, just no.
What are you talking about... it's for the players screaming for more 'realism'. Give the fighter his 10' tactical nuke. ;)
Or if you're really gutsy, put it at the end of a 15' pole.
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If any player in a game I ran managed to send the Tarrasque to another Plane (really, any other Plane)...they would receive it back within a few days or weeks, along with annoyed denizens of the Plane in question.
Plane-shifting the Tarrasque doesn't solve the problem it poses, it makes it someone else's problem. And y'know what? The denizens of most other planes, collectively anyway, are in a position to return the favor. With interest.
It'd also constitute an Evil act to send it to any Plane other than Abbadon, the Abyss, or Hell, since bystanders would almost certainly be killed wherever you send it.
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Plane-shifting the Tarrasque doesn't solve the problem it poses, it makes it someone else's problem. And y'know what? The denizens of most other planes, collectively anyway, are in a position to return the favor. With interest.
With an opponent who is, by RAW, unkillable, imprisonment and relocation are the only two options.
By GM Fiat, your removing relocation as an option. Unless your using the Tarrasque as a plot device, how else do you expect players to deal with it? If you're intending to use the Tarrasque as a plot device, stats are irrelevant. You've already decided only a specific course of action will satisfy your expectations and it's up to the players to figure out what you want them to do.
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With an opponent who is, by RAW, unkillable, imprisonment and relocation are the only two options.
True. Barring actually killing it, which is very possible for PCs of, say, 20th level. Or even 17th. Nobody's done it yet, that doesn't mean it's not doable. 9th level spells are really scary if used cleverly.
By GM Fiat, your removing relocation as an option.
Not true. I'm removing a very specific subset of relocation as an option, because of verisimilitude. What would you expect a powerful Outsider to do about the Tarrasque? If it were as easy as Plane Shift...don't you think someone would've used that by now? And so on.
You want to drop the Tarrasque somewhere without inhabitants, go for it. That ought to work. Plane Shift or the portable hole trick generally don't allow that specific degree of targeting, though. I mean, Plane Shift can do this theoretically but only with very specific research (you need 1000 mile radius area with no inhabitants that the creature can't get out of, that doesn't belong to anybody who'd object). Good luck finding that.
Now, making a permanent Demiplane and Plane Shifting it there would very likely work quite well...
Unless your using the Tarrasque as a plot device, how else do you expect players to deal with it? If you're intending to use the Tarrasque as a plot device, stats are irrelevant. You've already decided only a specific course of action will satisfy your expectations and it's up to the players to figure out what you want them to do.
I'd expect them to send it somewhere where it couldn't, y'know, murder lots of people. Or, as mentioned, imprison it. Which is very possible...the Marianas Trench idea sounds good. As does the Demiplane idea above.
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If you send him to the positive material plane he inevitably explodes in fairly short order. DC20 fortitude saves may be easy for him to make but he will roll a 1 in not very long at all given he is making it every 6 seconds.
Actually...given the whole 'Spawn of Rovagug' thing, this just delays it a few turns every time it happens. It then comes back at 1 HP, and heals to full at normal speed.
Because specific trumps general, and that's what happens to Spawn when they die.
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Of course, each chunk of Tarrasque would start to regenerate, maybe even faster given that positive material plane is full of life energy. 1 Tarrasque becomes a million T-cells, which quickly become a million Tarrasques, that eventually (probably after causing a lot of trouble) explode (and repeat).
By that logic everytime you cut into it with a sword a bit of the guy should pop out to make Mini-tasque!
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Of course, each chunk of Tarrasque would start to regenerate, maybe even faster given that positive material plane is full of life energy. 1 Tarrasque becomes a million T-cells, which quickly become a million Tarrasques, that eventually (probably after causing a lot of trouble) explode (and repeat).
It is a good thing that the borders between the positive energy plane and the prime material planes aren't porous. Oh wait, if that was the case, there wouldn't be any life in the prime material planes, since all that life energy would still be in the positive energy plane. I guess sooner or later, we should expect a couple million Tarrasques to show up some place. Rovagug thanks the PC's for their service.
Pieces that are cut off the Tarrasque do not regenerate, so this wouldn't happen. It'd just survive and get back up.
Here is an alternative option then to deal with him sort of permanently.
Take a Wall of Fire spell. Substitute its damage for cold or electricity (he is immune to fire and acid). Add Dazing Spell and Persistent Spell to it. This forces 2 saves and can easily be brought to DC33. He has a 1 in 400 chance of saving. Make sure to boost your CL to beat his SR. I recommend making it your Spell Perfection spell and grabbing a Rod of Piercing amongst others. Once he is Dazed he must make multiple 1 in 400 saves in a row to become undazed. Make the Wall permanent. Add several additional walls as a failsafe. Make all of them permanent.
Build a structure around him to contain the body and prevent casual removal of the walls with Disjunction. Make sure to guard the area to prevent mischief causing magicians from releasing him.
This, however, would work. For a very long time.
andreww... Deadmanwalking... allow me to introduce you to my earlier post.
. . . if you can penetrate the SR 36 you can still plane shift it to a major positive-dominant plane like the positive energy plane and it will eventually explode... it's got to roll a 1 on a Fortitude save some time.
Though with how regeneration reads, it would still come back in three rounds and explode again in an indeterminate number of rounds (roughly 120+) if no one is assaulting the remains after it explodes.
As my college professors always said to cite your sources, I originally saw the idea stated by Tempest Stormwind in a thread on the Wizards Boards discussing the same thing, how to eliminate Big T.
I would like to point out, that in older versions, the Tarrasque had to be wished or miracled dead after he was already dead to stay dead. The Pathfinder version has no such requirement. It only needs to be dealt damage after already taking enough damage to kill it, if I am reading its regeneration description correctly. Maybe hire some lantern archons to keep shooting?
The positive energy plane makes an excellent dumping ground for Big T because
Major Positive-Dominant: Some regions of the plane have the minor positive-dominant trait instead, and those islands tend to be inhabited.
its mostly areas of supercharged healing that make living things explode after a bit. The areas that are minor positive dominant are where the creatures here tend to live.
Actually you cannot kill the Tarrasque... His regen specifically states that his regen does not stop... ever... and if he is ever to die he comes right back agian with 1 hp...
Actually you cannot kill the Tarrasque... His regen specifically states that his regen does not stop... ever... and if he is ever to die he comes right back agian with 1 hp...
You mean I get to kill him twice? Cool! Do I still get xp this time?
That's why you set him up in a situation where he's continually killed by his environment, like a plane that makes him reach critical mass and explode over and over or where he drowns and goes unconscious, etc.
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andreww... Deadmanwalking... allow me to introduce you to my earlier post.
. . . if you can penetrate the SR 36 you can still plane shift it to a major positive-dominant plane like the positive energy plane and it will eventually explode... it's got to roll a 1 on a Fortitude save some time.
Though with how regeneration reads, it would still come back in three rounds and explode again in an indeterminate number of rounds (roughly 120+) if no one is assaulting the remains after it explodes.
As my college professors always said to cite your sources, I originally saw the idea stated by Tempest Stormwind in a thread on the Wizards Boards discussing the same thing, how to eliminate Big T.
I would like to point out, that in older versions, the Tarrasque had to be wished or miracled dead after he was already dead to stay dead. The Pathfinder version has no such requirement. It only needs to be dealt damage after already taking enough damage to kill it, if I am reading its regeneration description correctly. Maybe hire some lantern archons to keep shooting?
That's not how regeneration works. It would be if you had some way to stop the Tarrasque's Regeneration. There is no such way.
The positive energy plane makes an excellent dumping ground for Big T becauseMajor Positive-Dominant: Some regions of the plane have the minor positive-dominant trait instead, and those islands tend to be inhabited.its mostly areas of supercharged healing that make living things explode after a bit. The areas that are minor positive dominant are where the creatures here tend to live.
Uh...read the Spawn of Rovagug creature type. When they die to non-HP damage, they come back three rounds later at 1 HP. Nothing stops this.
So he'd totally die. Indeed, he's spend something like a tenth of his time dead. But it'd never stick.
Dumping him in the positive energy plane is a possibility. It doesn't kill him but it is one of the places that would be able to sort of take the wind out of his sales, and I imagine would eventually force him into hibernation due to lack of food. This could then have really interesting plot ramifications. What does getting super charged by positive energy for centuries do to the Tarrasque? What happens if he ends up in a place like the soul well in Bastion of Broken Souls? Does the presence of a spawn of Rovagug taint the unborn souls? Do creature start being born as demitarrasques?
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That's not how regeneration works. It would be if you had some way to stop the Tarrasque's Regeneration. There is no such way.
Uh...read the Spawn of Rovagug creature type. When they die to non-HP damage, they come back three rounds later at 1 HP. Nothing stops this.
So he'd totally die. Indeed, he's spend something like a tenth of his time dead. But it'd never stick.
Other than the hibernation ability mentioned earlier, I'll have to take your word for it. I don't have the book, and it's not on the PFSRD.
However, just going by the PFSRD
Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.
Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.
I was assuming because of the specific description of the creature's regeneration overwriting the general description of regeneration quality, that doing further damage after it dies but before it respawns in three rounds qualifies. If I'm wrong because of some information I don't have in the Spawn of Rovagug description, I accept that.
Also since healing and temporary hit points aren't hit point damage, they aren't healed by normal regeneration, or am I wrong there as well?
Being shifted to the positive energy plane, he'd be active for at least twelve minutes, more than likely longer, until he explodes and resets.
Healing up from 1hp to maximum hit points takes the creature's regeneration + fast healing from positive energy planes = 12 rounds or one minute. Getting temporary hit points in excess of his normal hit points takes 106 rounds or 10.6 minutes. It's at that point that he has to start making fortitude saves or explode, but only fails on a natural 1, so another 20 rounds, or two minutes. So if no further damage is inflicted upon the tarrasque's remains the cycle would be about 15 minutes of activity, BOOM, silence for 18 seconds, then it all starts over again.
Though with the tarrasque, 15 minutes is still to long... That's why I suggested lantern archons. If one swoops in during the three round interval, they ignore all DR with their light rays.
Again, I could be missing or misunderstanding something.
And I do like the electric box, andreww. I'd almost prefer the drownernation, though, because of the divination resistance. There's always some bat guano crazy cult in games wanting to unleash some sort of monstrosity.
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Here is an alternative option then to deal with him sort of permanently.
Take a Wall of Fire spell. Substitute its damage for cold or electricity (he is immune to fire and acid). Add Dazing Spell and Persistent Spell to it. This forces 2 saves and can easily be brought to DC33. He has a 1 in 400 chance of saving. Make sure to boost your CL to beat his SR. I recommend making it your Spell Perfection spell and grabbing a Rod of Piercing amongst others. Once he is Dazed he must make multiple 1 in 400 saves in a row to become undazed. Make the Wall permanent. Add several additional walls as a failsafe. Make all of them permanent.
Build a structure around him to contain the body and prevent casual removal of the walls with Disjunction. Make sure to guard the area to prevent mischief causing magicians from releasing him.
This sounds like the beginning of a mythic adventure.