Hello all:
I have a game where a person playing a ranger acquired an animal companion. What he does not know is that the companion is really a druid in animal form. She is scouting the party.
But I want to be fair.
The players have not asked for a sense motive.
But is there anything I should do to give them a chance to notice that something is amiss?
Also, I really NEED to stat this druid out. Any builds for espionage?
How is the druid/AC staying in wildshape form all of the time? I think the ranger might get suspicious if his/her AC is disappearing several times a day (so they can re-wildshape).
It's an interesting situation, but might I suggest you just have the druid scout the party via wildshape but not usurp the ranger's AC class ability? Good luck!
As early as level 8 the Druid can spend the last round of their previous Wildshape simply wild shaping again, and thus be in animal form for 24 hours. There isn't anything I've seen in Wildshape that says you have to change back.
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You should not do this. It's a very bad idea.
You should GIVE them a Sense Motive, and in any case a Ks Nature as a Wildshaped Druid will not act like a dumb animal. They would have to be making bluff checks constantly.
I have to disagree with Drdeth, this is an awesome idea!
In other news, whether you should give them some hint or not, I would say, it depends. The issue is a druids shapechange is a supernatural ability. Whether it shows up with detect magic has been debated, but without any definite answer. I'm leaning towards the fact they don't show up personally, but both sides have good arguments.
At this point, unless someone finds something concrete, you'll have to use your gm judgement if every time they turn on Detect Magic the animal companion pings. Otherwise, I can't think of anything unless someone happens to have on true sight or something, hopefully they are lower level than this or the ruse won't last long.
Yeah, it would be an automatic check to notice that the animal isn't acting very... animally. And it would happen any time the ranger has the companion go do something.
I wouldn't use sense motive either; I'd use handle animal (ranger level + wisdom).
As early as level 8 the Druid can spend the last round of their previous Wildshape simply wild shaping again, and thus be in animal form for 24 hours. There isn't anything I've seen in Wildshape that says you have to change back.
Our group doesn't let players time actions down to the round when they are fairly nebulous (like saving throws made at the beginning of the day or recasting hour-long buffs the second they wear off), but I realize that may be in houserule territory. Based on the reading of Wild Shape, you theoretically could reapply it as soon as it wore off with a standard action, otherwise you have to change back to your normal form and then reapply it. It seems like it would be obvious in some form or fashion that you are doing so. Thus, the AC/druid would likely need to "disappear" for a round or two (or longer since they may need to gain total cover) in order to reapply the form.
Druids make such good scouts anyway, that it might be less risky for the druid in question simply to stalk the party as various forms of animal life rather than pretending to be the ranger's AC.
The druid just keeps an eye on the time and goes off to do his or her business in the underbrush then using that time to refresh the wildshape. Since telling the time is a survival skill check, it should be certainly viable for the druid to manage it.
However, I do agree that the druid would be far better off just following the players as various tiny animals (birds, bats, snakes, etc). It wouldn't be especially hard and far less likely the players could ever notice it. Also - far less dangerous to the druid.
That said, the concept of a wildshaped druid as animal companion is a neat one, if somewhat prone to these weird issues.
I have to disagree with Drdeth, this is an awesome idea!
I depends on WHY?. And I admit I maybe read too much into the OP. OP, WHY is the druid "scouting" the party?
I depends on WHY?. And I admit I maybe read too much into the OP. OP, WHY is the druid "scouting" the party?I have to disagree with Drdeth, this is an awesome idea!
This is a game of way of the wicked.
Book 2Its an ad-lib. I'm viewing the druid is trying to understand what the party is doing. Druid is TN, and interested in maintaing the balance.
If you have not read/played the module, party is definitly upsetting balance....
The druid is the mother of a witch who has fallen in love with one of the other party members. ("dang it, i want babies-give me babies")
So yes, this is a light haerted lethal game.
Wouldn't the ranger figure out what is wrong when he tries to Handle Animal his Companion as a free action? Is the druid going to have to fake learning tricks so he doesn't suspect anything? I would say every time the ranger trains or gives his "animal companion" a command, he would get a check to figure it out.
What level is the druid? If they are under level 8, then they can't get a full night's rest while staying in animal form. The party is going to start wondering why the animal companion isn't healing from a full night's rest like everyone else is.
The druid will not benefit from the ranger's favored enemy. So any time they are in the favored terrain or fighting the ranger's favored enemy, they might notice a discrepancy with how the ranger is especially good at fighting this type of enemy, but the animal companion isn't. Similar effect with favored terrain, the "animal companion" will not seem as comfortable in the terrain as the ranger is.
The second the Ranger tries to case a personal/human target spell on his animal companion, the jig will be up, as the druid doesn't get the benefit of Share Spells.
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Yes, let's make sure the mechanics ruin any attempt at fun the GM is going for.
Wouldn't the ranger figure out what is wrong when he tries to Handle Animal his Companion as a free action? Is the druid going to have to fake learning tricks so he doesn't suspect anything? I would say every time the ranger trains or gives his "animal companion" a command, he would get a check to figure it out.
What level is the druid? If they are under level 8, then they can't get a full night's rest while staying in animal form. The party is going to start wondering why the animal companion isn't healing from a full night's rest like everyone else is.
The druid will not benefit from the ranger's favored enemy. So any time they are in the favored terrain or fighting the ranger's favored enemy, they might notice a discrepancy with how the ranger is especially good at fighting this type of enemy, but the animal companion isn't. Similar effect with favored terrain, the "animal companion" will not seem as comfortable in the terrain as the ranger is.
The second the Ranger tries to case a personal/human target spell on his animal companion, the jig will be up, as the druid doesn't get the benefit of Share Spells.
They are level 8. If you have played WOW, they are about to start a long ritualistic spell.
They have a base of operations.She should have the ability to go into the woods, and no one has mentioned any concern about her.
Your comment about rangers favored enemy is EXACTLY the thing i need to be aware of. Thank you.
One clue you can give the player is to have him do a Handle Animal check whenever he wants the animal to do something that it supposedly isn't trained for -- tell him that you are going to very strictly adhere to rues as written in that regard. The thing is, regardless of how bad the roll is, the animal does what is requested anyway. When the player points out the discrepancy, nod and agree that his skill check should not have succeeded.
Of course, this works only if the druid hasn't pumped up his Handle Animal bonus to the point that he cannot ever fail the relevant checks.
Yes, let's make sure the mechanics ruin any attempt at fun the GM is going for.
I am all for fun. I was just listing the areas that can/will tip off the party. The GM can handwave them, or incorporate them to give the party chances at seeing the deception. Heck, I would set the DC for discovering the Ranger's Companion doesn't benefit from Favored Enemy really high (30+). It would be really difficult for a layperson to realize the druid is missing a +2.
One clue you can give the player is to have him do a Handle Animal check whenever he wants the animal to do something that it supposedly isn't trained for -- tell him that you are going to very strictly adhere to rues as written in that regard. The thing is, regardless of how bad the roll is, the animal does what is requested anyway. When the player points out the discrepancy, nod and agree that his skill check should not have succeeded.
Of course, this works only if the druid hasn't pumped up his Handle Animal bonus to the point that he cannot ever fail the relevant checks.
What i am trying to figure out is would there be an opposed check here. Bluff vs. Handle Animal.
complicated acrobatics vs. barrel roll?
I don't mess with my players, only the characters when I GM. I view it as cheating to have the NPCs bypass the PCs passive defenses like Perception vs Disguise and Sense Motive vs. Bluff without making all the rolls. I understand other GMs have no problem fudging things like that for story reasons. I won't make the rolls where the players know whats going on (either I write down the modifiers and roll myself or I ask them for an unmodified d20 roll and do the math myself) because I don't like putting players in the awkward position of knowing something out of game but not in game. I do avoid plots that require fudging a bunch of Perception and Sense Motive rolls because these skills are reactive. Checks are triggered by people trying to deceive you, how are the players supposed to know if the bad guys are bluffing if you don't roll sense motive for them? I try to limit the meta of making players ask for checks, the skills exist to represent how attentive your character is, how attentive the player is shouldn't factor into it too much in my opinion.
No, the check (if any) would be Bluff vs. Sense Motive. I was thinking we should give the druid PC a freebie on the Handle Animal check since a wild shaped druid who is not an actual animal would probably have trouble determining whether he has been "handled" properly.
Of course, you could als say that whenever the animal is ordered to do something, he seems to already know the relevant trick. If the player is keeping track, he will eventually (assuming he gives a lot of different orders to his animal companion) figure out that the animal "knows" too many tricks. Of course, for that to work the player would have to lack the information as to exactly which tricks the "animal" knows -- something that could be difficult if you provide a stat block as is normally done with such creatures.
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I wouldn't do this. Not because of logistical issues or anything, but because you're effectively denying the character a Class Feature. The Ranger did whatever he does to attract or train an animal Companion...and proceeded to not get one. That doesn't seem the kind of thing he should be unaware of, and I wouldn't have it be in any game I ran.
If there's a weird stray dog, or bird, or something following the PCs, or even if they buy new horses some time, a Druid impersonating them seems entirely legitimate...but an Animal Companion is supposed to be effectively a second character for the PC who has it (a weaker, more limited one, but still). Replacing it is not nearly as bad as suddenly telling a player that "Oh, your PC has been a spy planning to betray the party the whole time." and taking control of them...but it's bad for the same reasons. You're effectively hijacking their actual character as the GM, not as some NPC with mind control. And that's not cool.
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This seems really unfair.
First, you are taking away his class feature. He doesn't have an animal companion, when clearly he should have one.
Secondly, the players should get chances to notice this. Unless the Druid is incredibly skilled at acting like an animal, it would be difficult to check off. And in fact it is more difficult than just that, the Druid would have to act like a wild animal that is mystically bonded to this particular ranger, as evidenced by sharing favored enemies etc.
Third, it is fairly implausible that the Druid could pull this off. First he would have to already be watching the group pretty closely an observe the Ranger going off to do his 24 prayer ritual to attract a companion, then he would have to somehow keep the real AC from showing up while himself showing up at the proper time. All of this without doing anything that would cause suspicion. Why would he bother when he was already able to observer them closely anyway?
You shouldn't arbitrarily take away class features, you shouldn't assume that characters don't notice things just because they didn't ask for a roll (especially when their wouldn't be a reason to ask for such a roll, I have never seen a Player ask for a sense motive roll to see if a class feature was really theirs or not.)
I wouldn't do this. Not because of logistical issues or anything, but because you're effectively denying the character a Class Feature. The Ranger did whatever he does to attract or train an animal Companion...and proceeded to not get one. That doesn't seem the kind of thing he should be unaware of, and I wouldn't have it be in any game I ran.
If there's a weird stray dog, or bird, or something following the PCs, or even if they buy new horses some time, a Druid impersonating them seems entirely legitimate...but an Animal Companion is supposed to be effectively a second character for the PC who has it (a weaker, more limited one, but still). Replacing it is not nearly as bad as suddenly telling a player that "Oh, your PC has been a spy planning to betray the party the whole time." and taking control of them...but it's bad for the same reasons. You're effectively hijacking their actual character as the GM, not as some NPC with mind control. And that's not cool.
In general, I agree with this.
However, as you've stated,
This is a game of way of the wicked.
Book 2Its an ad-lib. I'm viewing the druid is trying to understand what the party is doing. Druid is TN, and interested in maintaing the balance.
If you have not read/played the module, party is definitly upsetting balance....
The druid is the mother of a witch who has fallen in love with one of the other party members. ("dang it, i want babies-give me babies")
So yes, this is a light haerted lethal game.
[sic] (bold mine)
... I'm guessing you're certain that the players are okay with having themselves undermined in this way?
If that's the case, then you seem to have your answers, for the most part:
1) favored enemy
2) the link special ability (not to mention the general response to the push special ability and Handle Animal skill)
3) it qualifies for automatic Sense Motive checks (or wisdom checks, untrained) as opposed to the druid's bluff checks (or charisma checks, untrained); Handle Animal could certainly be a ruled opposed check, if you're interested in valid (and interesting House Rules) or you could simply rule that it makes the Ranger suspicious (allowing a Sense Motive) instead
4) the druid also needs to make Disguise check (opposed by Perception), as polymorph (which relates to animal shape spells, which relates to wild shape class feature) nets you a +10 to your disguise check, and,
Usually, an individual makes a Perception check to see through your disguise immediately upon meeting you and every hour thereafter. If you casually meet many different creatures, each for a short time, check once per day or hour, using an average Perception modifier for the group.
... plus,
Can't change into specific individuals
... which a specific Animal Companion certainly would fall into a certain level of familiarity (see the disguise skill for details).
Hope it helps, and I hope it's a fun game!
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Indeed, the druid wouldn't be able to impersonate an existing AC - he lacks the Link and also can't shapechange into a specific individual creature.
If the druid intervened while the ranger was calling a new AC, I suppose this might be sort of possible. However, if the ranger had had an AC before, he'd know how it feels to have the Link - that IS a somewhat magical connection after all.
So the druid either has to fake the link, or might actually usurp the AC's place and become Linked to the ranger. So now the ranger's personality is starting to affect the druid...
Anyway, at some point the ranger's player might start noticing that his AC's performance in combat seems to have very little relation to the stats that the player got for the AC. That [animal] is showing a lot more/less Strength/Dexterity than normal.
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Indeed, the druid wouldn't be able to impersonate an existing AC - he lacks the Link and also can't shapechange into a specific individual creature.
If the druid intervened while the ranger was calling a new AC, I suppose this might be sort of possible. However, if the ranger had had an AC before, he'd know how it feels to have the Link - that IS a somewhat magical connection after all.
So the druid either has to fake the link, or might actually usurp the AC's place and become Linked to the ranger. So now the ranger's personality is starting to affect the druid...
Anyway, at some point the ranger's player might start noticing that his AC's performance in combat seems to have very little relation to the stats that the player got for the AC. That [animal] is showing a lot more/less Strength/Dexterity than normal.
Thank you for pointing out the link. I dont see how i can legitametly do this beucause of that.
Thank you all for your help. I apreciate it.
FOr the record, the bear that he thought was his companion, is now really his companion.
VR
Joe
Is the ranger the only one with a horse in the party? If so have the druid replace an ordinary horse instead. As multiple people have pointed out there will be plenty of ways for the ranger to figure out this is not an animal companion.
Unless you have a druid player character the ranger is probably the one most likely to recognize that the druid is not a normal animal. If the druid is smart he is going to avoid being around the ranger as much as he can.
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I don't mess with my players, only the characters when I GM. I view it as cheating to have the NPCs bypass the PCs passive defenses like Perception vs Disguise and Sense Motive vs. Bluff without making all the rolls.
One way that I get around this is that I might give the party an unrelated reason to make a perception/sense motive check - say, they run into a merchant NPC who's acting weird or shifty. They roll a sense motive check against the merchant and - "Oh, incidentally, you notice that there seems to be something off about the ranger's animal companion."