Just curious....
When I sit down at a random table, if there is a human character, I automatically assume min/maxer, lacking the flavor of creativity. While this isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, I have trouble understanding why in a fantasy setting ANYONE would want to play human beyond the fact that they are the "best" choice in almost every class guide.
extra feat
bonus skill points
extra spells for favored class
+2 to any stat
the list goes on.
Any reason why the content pushes players to this race?
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When I sit down at a random table, if there is a human character, I automatically assume min/maxer, lacking the flavor of creativity.
Well that doesn't sound very friendly... Probably not healthy either.
If it matters, not everyones into playing elves, dwarves, or some krazy kind of kitsune. Some people happen to like humans for whatever reason, weird as it may sound. Lots of reasons to play other classes too, like Dwarves have a +5 to saving throws and bonuses against some of the most common things you run into. Humans just happen to be super versatile in the game so they pop up in every guide as a go to, as opposed to dwarves, who have set in stone stats that favor wisdom based casters but not oracles.
Btw, how is this related to society play?
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As someone mentioned above these is a lot of variation with humans. You have the Azlanti humans (who basically felt superior to all other racial human groups), the Varisians, The Shoanti. Being an Elf or Dwarf dosnt make you any more interesting than a human (esp the way a lot of people play an Elf or Dwarf... as a human).
The mark of a good setting for me is how interesting they make their races. Ive found the Elves and Dwarves of Golarion to be ..well not as interesting as say some places (ie Gnomes of Dragonlance, Dwarves of Earthdawn). Humanity on the other hand has a myriad of faces to view.
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As well as being fodder for some min/max stuff, humans also have some of the best background information in the ISWG, for example.
Also note that, for someone who is new to the game, human is the easiest race to understand.
Also, just as an FYI, humans are among the worst race to play if you know you are oging to be dealing with darkness effects. Sorry, just ran a PFS game, 4 PCs, all human, not terribly optimized beyond normal stats for the classes chosen, and they were pretty much lost when the BBEG's darkness SLA went off...
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I often avoid playing Humans in fantasy rpgs (mostly because I'm one IRL), so I can understand where the OP is coming from as far as wanting to play another race. I disagree that Humans are the powergamer race of choice, though. That's clearly the Aasimar. But of all the game settings I've played in, Pathfinder's Humans are the most diverse I've seen.
If you haven't yet picked up a copy of the Inner Sea World Guide, take a look at it sometime. You'll see that the Creative Directors put a lot of effort into the human ethnicities of their world.
Although my first 8 characters weren't Human, my three most recent are, in an attempt to familiarize myself better with Golarion's ethnic regions.
My -10 is a Vudrani snake charmer (Animal Speaker Bard / Urban Ranger) named Jaswinder who I have a blast roleplaying as the stereotypical Apu from Simpsons. I couldn't do that with any other race in Golarion.
My -11 is a Shoanti Warpriest named Bear Burning Ashes. He fights with the traditional Thunder & Fang, which IMO is the thematically coolest weapon combination in the game. And the tattooed storytelling animistic Shoanti are a Barbarian's RP dream come true.
My -13 is an overweight Taldan Bloatmage who makes every opportunity to espouse the glories of Taldor (which I've seen done by other races, but it just always seemed wrong to me somehow). If there is any country, or ethnicity, which epitomizes the virtues of old white noblemen, it's Taldor.
(and FWIW, none of them chose the Bonus Feat racial trait)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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I wouldn't assume anyone playing a human is a power gamer, that is just rude to be honest. Why would you assume because some random guide somewhere online says human is the "best" choice, that everyone you meet has read or even knows about the existence of said guide?
Personally my character concepts start as human and stay that way unless there is a compelling reason for the character concept to change.
I don't even consider an Aasimar, Tiefling or one of the elemental plane touched unless it fits with the character concept. I did just recently make a Tiefling Merciful Healer of Sarenrae whose main drive is redemption and making up for her innate "evilness" by performing as many selfless deeds as possible. I have not had a chance to play this character yet, but I am looking forward to the opportunity.
Tengu or other weird (boon only in PFS) races need a similar tie in to the character concept for me to play. I do have a Tengu crane-style monk that I enjoy playing a lot.
I have never been a big fan of elves so I rarely play them. I do occasionally play a half-elf.
I will play a dwarf if I can come up with an original (or at least somewhat original) character idea. If I have to endure yet another campaign with a grumpy, alcoholic dwarf with a Scottish accent, I will end up stabbing* somebody!
I just hate gnomes and their giant-headed silliness with a passion. Pass.
I will play halfling characters, but always against type. No halfling rogues, I tend to play fighters or rangers. I also usually don't go for Tolkien Hobbit types.
So I guess I am saying you shouldn't assign motives, especially unsavory ones, to other peoples choices. I mean at least wait until that character displays some min/maxing traits or something.
Ohh yeah, half-orcs exist too. I have never played a half orc, mostly because I tend to forget they exist as a legal option I think.
Aasimar is clearly the power gamer race of choice. Bonus points if it's an Oracle, Bard, or Ranger.
One thing to remember is that humans lack Darkvision.
Anyways, people play Humans mostly because they're a blank slate that lets you build anything you like easily. The extra feat and skill points allow build diversity or allows your build to come online sooner in the case of archery builds.
Other races come with stereotyped mental images that may not be easily gotten rid of or roleplaying constraints. I personally can't voice a Dwarf to save my life. Elves, Halflings, Gnomes and even Goblins I can do but not Dwarves apparently.
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Yeah, humans are good for most builds but seldom best (archery builds for classes without bonus feats are all I'm thinking of where they're actually best), and are potentially lots of fun thematically.
The different ethnicities in Golarion are also fun, and difficult to make use of without being at least half human, and even then, the non-human part often overshadows the ethnicity if you let it.
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Not only that, but if I'm min/maxing, chances are I can do better with a non-human race anyway. That's when you crack open the ARG, Blood of Angels, and Blood of Fiends to find the precise combo of stat boosts and secondary abilities that gives my build just that extra oomph.
So no, choosing a human doesn't mean min/maxer at all.
Aasimar is clearly the power gamer race of choice. Bonus points if it's an Oracle, Bard, or Ranger.
One thing to remember is that humans lack Darkvision.
Anyways, people play Humans mostly because they're a blank slate that lets you build anything you like easily. The extra feat and skill points allow build diversity or allows your build to come online sooner in the case of archery builds.
Other races come with stereotyped mental images that may not be easily gotten rid of or roleplaying constraints. I personally can't voice a Dwarf to save my life. Elves, Halflings, Gnomes and even Goblins I can do but not Dwarves apparently.
Aasimar are pretty ridiculous. The number one go to early PRC entry race (with a helpful selection of SLAs), they can even apply for Human status via Scion of Humanity and then be treated as whatever race they want via Racial Heritage. Did I mention their one of the few ways to get (Ex) Flight? Cause that's kind of a big deal. And of course they get two +2's to their stats, with a good selection of stat spreads. Did I mention the 3 resist 5's? Or the Darkvision? Oh and of course they get Celestial Servant. Ya, being an Aasimar is a pretty sweet deal.
The reason humans are powerful is because they are versatile and D&D has always favored versatility. It's why the wizard is the top class in the tier lists. Generally the rule is that humans are good in every class but they usually have to compete with a another race for best in every specific class. For example, humans are great for witches but to compete with elves and samsarans for the top spot. Those races aren't top tier for fighters but humans are where they compete against dwarves and half-orcs.
also "extra feat
bonus skill points
extra spells for favored class
+2 to any stat
the list goes on."
It doesn't really. That's it. What little they have is strong and flexible. Other races have more basic traits and more worthwhile alternate racial traits. That's the attempt at balance.
I hate being a different race, and I might never change to anything but human. I want to play a game where I am average Joe human who can give the business to others, even if others can do it a billion times better. I usually feel that people choose a particular race with their class to get maximum benefits, while I will just always be human.
I don't need to learn some weird cultural stuff, and can just be myself as a human. I am in real life a human, so I guess I'm bias to be in favor of being human over other races. Humans forever! DESTROY ALL GNOMES!
Human is never a bad choice of race, but it is hardly "the best choice of races in all situations". Human adaptability and the extra feat make them solid choices for a race, but they do not make other races irrelevant.
Also, with the great amount of information about humans in golarion and being human it is easier to understand and get into the character of human wizard than it is to become the cat-folk rogue.
Personally I see anyone using the variant Aasimars or Tieflings as power gaming, they gave far too good of stat variations and abilities to the variants of both to the point that I've banned them.
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Personally I see anyone using the variant Aasimars or Tieflings as power gaming, they gave far too good of stat variations and abilities to the variants of both to the point that I've banned them.
Oh no! Stat variations that allow for flexible character cration without worrying that you chose the wrong race! Truly a vile thing that must be banned!
More seriously, the flexible stats allow them to fit into more(but doesn't make them more powerful than any other race), dark vision is always nice, and no negative is cool, but the resistances fall behind, negative stats are usually crammed into a dump stat anyway, and the skill bonuses are pretty minor. Spell like abilities are appreciated. As to whether they are a go to for optimizing, I'd say it really depends on what your going for because they aren't perfect for everything.
Personally I like running humans because I just don't like elves, orcs, or short races.
I play a lot of humans. like, as in most of my PFS characters are. While I can certainly understand the desire to play something else, mostly I play humans cause they're easy for me to relate to. The stats are good, but I've never said to myself "man, I wish I had another skill point!".
Personally I see anyone using the variant Aasimars or Tieflings as power gaming, they gave far too good of stat variations and abilities to the variants of both to the point that I've banned them.Oh no! Stat variations that allow for flexible character cration without worrying that you chose the wrong race! Truly a vile thing that must be banned!
Yep, glad you understand and agree.
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I have trouble understanding why in a fantasy setting ANYONE would want to play human beyond the fact that they are the "best" choice in almost every class guide.
With all due respect, Your lack of understanding/imagination means nothing. People play the race they want to play and that is it.
It's kind of ironic because, despite being the most "mundane" race, humans are often times best (or at least very good) for more unique builds because the bonus feat allows them to go online much earlier than anyone else. The humans are really the go-to race for people wanting to be creative with their crunch.
That being said, I'm a major sucker for tieflings and will often times go to them first because demons are awesome.
I actually like playing humans, not because of the stats but for the cultures Golarion has introduced. Now, I play non-humans plenty, but human characters are still my bread and butter.
If your build needs EWP or Skill Focus then Half-elf is hands down a better choice than human.
HUmans can get 3 skill focus for hte price one feat. Not all at once but still.
1. It's a group game, and being 'the human' helps my fellow players feel all special inside. While I'm running a human, all the folks at my table who love their half-urdefhans and their awakened dingoes and whatnot have somebody to compare their weirdness to. Once everybody's special, nobody is.2. I'm very fond of "the Everyman" as a character, and Human is the race I associate with that. (I'm also fond of "the Straight Shooter," but dwarves are just as good for that - if not better.)
I have had a similar experience. A party I was in on Roll20 consisted of a Kobold Fighter, Strix Gunslinger, Dwarf Inquisitor, a Synthesist Human who pretended to be a dragon and talked like Mr.Burns from the Simpsons and me; a Human Barbarian who spent more time corralling his group in line than killing monsters and raging out.
We were pirates.
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If your build needs EWP or Skill Focus then Half-elf is hands down a better choice than human.
Actually...Focused Study makes that second part not true. At least it often does, 2 Skill Focuses and +1 skill point per level are generally better than the Half Elf stuff.
Still true if you want EWP or to use Elf Favored Class bonuses, though.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
I only DM human campaigns these days. I have no love for races.
Perhaps there are one or two players left would want to role play a human once in awhile, with or without regard for the mechanical benefits. Nah, probably not.
Being a dwarf and suddenly being out in the world and not suffering from whatever the opposite of claustrophobia is strikes me as highly unlikely.
I only DM human campaigns these days. I have no love for races.
Racist.
If your build needs EWP or Skill Focus then Half-elf is hands down a better choice than human.Actually...Focused Study makes that second part not true. At least it often does, 2 Skill Focuses and +1 skill point per level are generally better than the Half Elf stuff.
Still true if you want EWP or to use Elf Favored Class bonuses, though.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
I find low light vision, +2 perception, sleep immunity, and +2 saves vs enchantment to outweigh the 2nd and 3rd skill focus and the 20 skill ranks. I completely understand that YMMV.
Edit: I guess I should clarify, about 90% of the builds I see that need skill focus are for builds which are going to use Eldritch Heritage, at which point the 2nd and 3rd skill focus feats are nice to have but hardly needed.
Humans are not even that good... Nowadays I think Half-Elves and Half-Orcs make a superior choice more often than not.
Personally I see anyone using the variant Aasimars or Tieflings as power gaming, they gave far too good of stat variations and abilities to the variants of both to the point that I've banned them.Oh no! Stat variations that allow for flexible character cration without worrying that you chose the wrong race! Truly a vile thing that must be banned!
Honestly I'd ban tieflings because every tiefling I've seen played is invariably one of two characters.
"Like I'm a tiefling..but I'm good cause I'm trying to deny/fix/ignore my demonic heritage! Isn't that awesome?"
or just the stereotypical grim-dark badass
It gets tiresome.
That's like saying all humans are essentially one of two characters.
"Like I'm a human...and I'm good because I'm trying to be a good guy."
Or just the stereotypical grimdark badass.
It's untrue and especially silly because you roll 3 different, EXTREMELY different things (trying to fix the heritage, meaning they want to be human or something, trying to deny the heritage and completely going against their instincts, or flat out ignoring the heritage and simply saying "I am what I am and that's all that I am".).
Honestly, races are usually used as just a means to an end. Rarely will you see a halfing barbarian
I do not knwo why people do not like halflings as melee combatants. I do not play them for aesthetic reasons but I consider them to be a solid race.
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Personally I see anyone using the variant Aasimars or Tieflings as power gaming, they gave far too good of stat variations and abilities to the variants of both to the point that I've banned them.Oh no! Stat variations that allow for flexible character cration without worrying that you chose the wrong race! Truly a vile thing that must be banned!Honestly I'd ban tieflings because every tiefling I've seen played is invariably one of two characters.
"Like I'm a tiefling..but I'm good cause I'm trying to deny/fix/ignore my demonic heritage! Isn't that awesome?"
or just the stereotypical grim-dark badass
It gets tiresome.
You're forgetting my personal favorite.
"Dude, I'm a half-demon. That's rad." *kickflips*
But yeah seriously the problem isn't with the race it's with bad writing. People will make their Linkin Park AMV's with whatever is available.
Just curious....
When I sit down at a random table, if there is a human character, I automatically assume min/maxer, lacking the flavor of creativity. While this isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, I have trouble understanding why in a fantasy setting ANYONE would want to play human beyond the fact that they are the "best" choice in almost every class guide.
extra feat
bonus skill points
extra spells for favored class
+2 to any statthe list goes on.
Any reason why the content pushes players to this race?
Flavor is provided by the player, and I can write a decent background story for any race.
Also humans are the best all around race IMO, but each class has a best race for that class and it is not always human, and honestly I think dwarves given humans a run for their money.
In my opinion humans have not been superior to other races until the invention of the blood of dragons trait. Now that it has become easy to get low-light vision they lost their biggest drawback. On the other hand having to take one trait occupies half their bonus feat so to say.
Anyways, my favourite race in pathfinder is the half-orc. With the skilled, sacred tattoo and shaman's apprentice alternate traits they get the bonus skill point, a bonus feat (yet fixed) a +1 save bonus that can be upped to +2 by a trait.
And with wis 13 they qualify for scent.
For me, a character is made of two catagories. Race and Class.
SOMETHING is going to form the backbone of his character and personality. When I chose an Elf or a Dwarf... they instantly seem to become an elf or dwarf at heart. My favorite race seems to be Half-elf... but then I play up the prejudice an broken homes that are associated with that.
SOMETIMES... The CLASS needs to take center stage. When I made my Paladin of Sarenrae or my Oracle of Time.... it was the CLASS that was the backbone of who they were and what they did. Much more then an elf paladin would have.
In THOSE cases, I tend to pick human. Kind of a blank slate that lets the 'other' uniqueness shine brighter.
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I prefer humans because I can visualise their concept better. My last non-human was a theatre-loving inventor dwarf bard who I played because I liked the idea (which grew from an early Pratchett novel).
If someone accused me of min-maxing at the table simply because I had a human I would laugh at them.
I prefer humans because I can visualise their concept better. My last non-human was a theatre-loving inventor dwarf bard who I played because I liked the idea (which grew from an early Pratchett novel).
If someone accused me of min-maxing at the table simply because I had a human I would laugh at them.
QFT.
Like a lot of other people here I often choose to be a human when I want my background to not be overshadowed by my race. `
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Honestly I don't care too much about what race I play. Sure, I occasionally try something new like Elf Barbarian or Dwarf Oracle, but generally my race is not something I base too much of my RP around and I instead use my class, feat choices, skill rank placement, and trait selection to form my character's flavor and backstory. So I tend to play a lot of humans simply because if I come up with a flavor for my character that isn't drunk or grumpy, nobody will think I'm poorly RPing a dwarf, and if I think of a completely non-demon/devil/angel/fey backstory I don't get accused of "forgetting" the stereotypes that float about gnomes aasimars and tieflings.