If a god has a favored weapon, is it just the basic version of that weapon or can it have some variation.
For example, if a god's favored weapon is a gauntlet can it also be considered to be a spiked gauntlet or rope gauntlet?
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If a god has a favored weapon, is it just the basic version of that weapon or can it have some variation.
For example, if a god's favored weapon is a gauntlet can it also be considered to be a spiked gauntlet or rope gauntlet?
Favored weapons are specific.
That said, there's no reason a worshiper of a deity can't use a variant...but they won't gain proficiency if they're a Cleric or any of the other mechanical benefits of being a favored weapon.
Which god has a plain gauntlet as his favored weapon?
Ah -- then we are technically outside of Pathfinder territory here.
Anyway, what is the source book for St. Arnold? I don't recall reading about him back during D&D 3.5, and I thought I didn't miss much.
Why would a competent God grant his Clerics proficiency in a subpar weapon that all of them are already proficient in?
Sarenrae knows the system a lot better than Asmodeus, it would seem.
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Why would a competent God grant his Clerics proficiency in a subpar weapon that all of them are already proficient in?
Sarenrae knows the system a lot better than Asmodeus, it would seem.
That's not how gods work.
They have a weapon they favor, and the weapon proficiency of the Cleric class has no bearing on this.
Most worshipers of gods are not Clerics.
To even think that, is to think only in the mechanical metagame realm.
By your reasoning, all deities must favor a martial or exotic weapon.
Shocking, as it may be to you, most gods favor simple weapons.
Why would a competent God grant his Clerics proficiency in a subpar weapon that all of them are already proficient in?
Because favored weapons and domain rules are pretty imba' and silly?
Or you could just accept it as part and parcel of having that deity?
I mean, atheist clerics don't even get a favored weapon.
That post was sarcasm.
But seriously now - If a deity's favored weapon mechanic only affects weapon proficiencies for Clerics and Inquisitors, and most deities favor simple weapons, what is the whole point of the mechanic? Ensuring that every archer Cleric worships Erastil? Does Asmodeus demand a feat be burnt in sacrifice to him by all his (serious) melee Clerics?
You are still seeing the Deity's favored weapon from a purely mechanical, and metagame point of view.
This. A priest (usually) doesn't worship a deity because "man, I wanna learn to swing a greatsword!".
This. A priest (usually) doesn't worship a deity because "man, I wanna learn to swing a greatsword!".You are still seeing the Deity's favored weapon from a purely mechanical, and metagame point of view.
Yeah, but you run into a bit of awkwardness where the cleric class, which can be built as a guy who buffs himself and whacks things with a stick really good, lacks a really good stick to do the whacking with unless he gets it out of class. You also run into every archer cleric worshipping erastil and blahblahblah warpriest playtest revolved around this chat.
A deities favored weapon is an aspect of that deity and is both an insight into what is important to the deity. It's not meant to be a metagame decision.
When you create variables based on your deity, people will metagame their decision. If you create one without that dependency, they're more likely to choose their deity based on a roleplaying decision. Shockingly, people have more reason to make a decision based on metagame when you give them a reason to. The fact your chosen deity has a strong influence on what type of cleric you will be, is a pretty powerful variable.
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A deities favored weapon is an aspect of that deity and is both an insight into what is important to the deity. It's not meant to be a metagame decision.When you create variables based on your deity, people will metagame their decision. If you create one without that dependency, they're more likely to choose their deity based on a roleplaying decision. Shockingly, people have more reason to make a decision based on metagame when you give them a reason to. The fact your chosen deity has a strong influence on what type of cleric you will be, is a pretty powerful variable.
That says more about the players in question than it does about the game system.
That says more about the players in question than it does about the game system.
Eh, at some point you have to accept that some people are going to min-max and tear your game apart and critique every angle, and some people might even defend your worse ideas. What you do with that is something else.
A deities favored weapon is an aspect of that deity and is both an insight into what is important to the deity. It's not meant to be a metagame decision.
It's actually one of the more shallow aspects of the robust deities Golarion offers.
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It's actually one of the more shallow aspects of the robust deities Golarion offers.A deities favored weapon is an aspect of that deity and is both an insight into what is important to the deity. It's not meant to be a metagame decision.
I, personally, don't find Shelyn's Glaive usage shallow.
On the other hand, I don't even remember Nethys's favored weapon. It really depends on the deity how cool their favored weapon story is.
A deities favored weapon is an aspect of that deity and is both an insight into what is important to the deity. It's not meant to be a metagame decision.
Yes it is. The mechanical differences between gods, including their favored weapons exist in order to differentiate clerics of different gods mechanically and make them play differently. Also for pure balance concerns. That is a feature and absolutely is a metagame concern as is anything which helps a player decide "what kind" or character they want to play.
Also for pure balance concerns.
Deities aren't balanced though. Some are great choices, others just suck. There isn't a secret balancing act.
Yeah, there's a balancing aspect there, too, with some bad weapons going with good Domains and the like (Desna has great Domains and a bad weapon, for example). I'm not sure how systematized that is, but it's a factor.
Also for pure balance concerns.Deities aren't balanced though. Some are great choices, others just suck. There isn't a secret balancing act.
Part of it is to help cleric builds match the flavor of the god rather than pure balance. Iomedae and Gorum for example have both perfectly good weapons and also good domains to encourage more martial cleric builds. Nobody cares about Nethys' weapon because his clericsmake more sense casting spells anyway. Sarenrae gets the scimitar as well as the feat that makes DEX-fighters viable because Dexterity based characters make sense for the desert-themed goddess of fire ("when they fight they dance like the very flames of the Dawnflower" or something along those lines).
That is the metagame intention that I was talking about before in terms of builds and character archetypes (not literally archetypes but the actual sense of the word).
Part of it is to help cleric builds match the flavor of the god rather than pure balance.
Yarr, I like being told who I am before I sit down to play almost as much as I liked my barbarians being illiterate and bards non lawful.
It's actually one of the more shallow aspects of the robust deities Golarion offers.A deities favored weapon is an aspect of that deity and is both an insight into what is important to the deity. It's not meant to be a metagame decision.
I, personally, don't find Shelyn's Glaive usage shallow.
On the other hand, I don't even remember Nethys's favored weapon. It really depends on the deity how cool their favored weapon story is.
Shelyn is an outlier. One that I actually find disagreeable. Why would she want her followers using glaives when hers is an evil soul sucking glaive that she very likely does not use in combat?
The story is interesting but it still doesn't make much sense.
The Pharasman skane is a ritual dagger that is deemed by some priests as "Too sacred to wield in battle and would rather select a different weapon for that purpose."
Most deities don't have an explanation or fluff behind their favored weapons.
Yeah, there's a balancing aspect there, too, with some bad weapons going with good Domains and the like (Desna has great Domains and a bad weapon, for example). I'm not sure how systematized that is, but it's a factor.
It really isn't however. There are enough examples of deities with ridiculously awesome selections and deities with terribly poor ones.
Balance was not a concern when selecting favored weapons and domains.
Part of it is to help cleric builds match the flavor of the god rather than pure balance.Yarr, I like being told who I am before I sit down to play almost as much as I liked my barbarians being illiterate and bards non lawful.
It's not like it is impossible to build off-type either mechanically or even in flavor but there has to be some sort of flavor-mechanical guidance for those who are Golarion neophytes.
\Balance was not a concern when selecting favored weapons and domains.
I think it is a vestigial idea from all the way back in 3.0 for the most part.
there has to be some sort of flavor-mechanical guidance for those who are Golarion neophytes.
Err... No there doesn't. There doesn't have to be any.
\Balance was not a concern when selecting favored weapons and domains.I think it is a vestigial idea from all the way back in 3.0 for the most part.
Domains and favored weapons are vestigial, not so much the balance thing though.
there has to be some sort of flavor-mechanical guidance for those who are Golarion neophytes.Err... No there doesn't. There doesn't have to be any.
There should be in a good campaign setting. Having a theme by definition means that there is a defined difference between on theme and off theme. The mechanical incentives need to be there to ensure that the theme stays mechanically viable for NPC and/or players who choose to play the trope straight.
I think there should be in a well defined campaign setting. Having a theme by definition means that there is a defined difference between on theme and off theme.there has to be some sort of flavor-mechanical guidance for those who are Golarion neophytes.Err... No there doesn't. There doesn't have to be any.
You think, but again, there doesn't have to be. You can actually write suggestions for domains and a favored weapon without being so heavy handed about it in a mechanical way. This is also a lot friendlier to homebrew and people making their own settings because it makes the class itself more complete on its own. Its also nicer when you don't have to make 3-5 domains and a favored weapon per god you make I'd imagine.
Probably off-topic at this point.
You think, but again, there doesn't have to be. You actually write suggestions for domains and a favored weapon without being so heavy handed about it.
I'm not sure what you are objecting to as heavy-handed. Do you mean the fact that different gods are mechanically differentiated to give bonuses and which match their flavor, or is there an aspect here that I am missing?
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Shelyn is an outlier. One that I actually find disagreeable. Why would she want her followers using glaives when hers is an evil soul sucking glaive that she very likely does not use in combat?
The story is interesting but it still doesn't make much sense.
Actually, she pretty explicitly does use it, and isn't corrupted basically because she's made of awesome. And it's a constant reminder for her Clerics of how far they should be willing to go for love.
The Pharasman skane is a ritual dagger that is deemed by some priests as "Too sacred to wield in battle and would rather select a different weapon for that purpose."
Most deities don't have an explanation or fluff behind their favored weapons.
Yeah...that'd be why I said 'It varies.' Irori, Iomedae, Norgorber, and Cayden Cailean have good (though not truly awesome) explanations, as do Sarenrae, Gorum, Erastil, Torag, Zon-Kuthon, and Lamashtu to a lesser extent. Asmodeus and Desna's reasons are weak, as are Abadar, Pharasma, Nethys, Gozreh, Calistria, Urgathoa, and Rovagug's, IMO.
It really isn't however. There are enough examples of deities with ridiculously awesome selections and deities with terribly poor ones.
Balance was not a concern when selecting favored weapons and domains.
I agree it wasn't the primary concern, I'm just throwing out that it might be in there a little.
Actually, she pretty explicitly does use it, and isn't corrupted basically because she's made of awesome. And it's a constant reminder for her Clerics of how far they should be willing to go for love.Shelyn is an outlier. One that I actually find disagreeable. Why would she want her followers using glaives when hers is an evil soul sucking glaive that she very likely does not use in combat?
The story is interesting but it still doesn't make much sense.
Really? Can I get a citation on that? I'm genuinely curious.
The last entry I read on it is that she is taking means to release the souls within it, not actively using it to end the lives of people and therefore endanger that cause by bringing it to battle where it could get more souls.
Because it sounds really silly to use a soul sucking weapon when it hasn't been stated that it no longer does so and then encourage your clergy to use weapons like it.
Gorum has no reason to have a favored weapon to begin with, his clergy preaches that all weapons have a use, not all weapons have a use but use this one over the rest and we're only going to train you in this one.