Combat Maneuver Modifiers

[Torbyne]

Something came up in a recent session and it made me think about a Warpriest build i am preparing; when making a combat maneuver as part of a full attack does the maneuver carry the normal penalty for iterative attacks? It looks like it should be a no brainer but the way its worded is throwing me off a little. Likewise, a Warpriest using a sacred weapon would use a full BAB for CMB vice their 3/4 BAB, correct? though they would still have only 3/4 for CMD?

Its kind of strange as a CMB roll is effectively just a normal attack roll with the same modifiers you would usually use to hit something, isnt it? The only exception is a bonus to maneuvers due to size?

[TGMaxMaxer]

Depends on the Maneuver. If it can be done with a weapon, (disarm, trip, sunder) then it would get full BAB. And factor in weapon focus, magic, etc.

If it wasn't done with the weapon (bull rush, overrun, reposition, drag, steal, dirty trick, grapple) then you would only use 3/4 BAB. and no weapon feats, no magic enhances to weapon, etc.

Note: there are several ways to use a weapon for some of those other maneuvers, Shield Slam for bullrushes uses the shield, Steal with a whip uses the whip(at a -4), any trip weapon can be used to Reposition or Drag with the full weapon bonuses, Dirty Trick can be done with a weapon sometimes (example was sap to groin to cause sickened)... etc.

Important thing is to work out beforehand if you are using the weapon, or not, and keep track of the bonus each way.

[kinevon]

And, yes, when you full attack with combat maneuvers, or do a combat maneuver as part of a full attack, it takes the penalty associated with which attack it takes the place of, -0 for the first attack, -5 if done on the first iterative, -10 if done on the second, etc.

[Torbyne]

Thanks all, thats what i thought but it was new ground for me and positive confirmation gives me such a warm, fuzzy feeling :)

[Torbyne]

Oops, two more quick ones, a miss chance from Blur or Mirror Image or the like, that applies to CMB checks as they are a kind of attack roll but AC bonuses from being prone, having cover or other situational modifiers would not apply. Do i still have it?

[Red Wullf]

Torbyne wrote:

...a miss chance from Blur or Mirror Image or the like, that applies to CMB checks as they are a kind of attack roll...

Correct.

Torbyne wrote:

...but AC bonuses from being prone, having cover or other situational modifiers would not apply. Do i still have it?

Actually, any penalties to AC also apply to CMD.

Quote:

Combat Maneuver Defense: Each character and creature has a Combat Maneuver Defense (or CMD) that represents its ability to resist combat maneuvers. A creature's CMD is determined using the following formula:

CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier

The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Defense is as follows: Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8. Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMD when resisting specific maneuvers. A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

Emphasis mine.

[Torbyne]

And the final piece clicks into place. Should have figured it'd be something like "read the rules". Thanks again!