Entire party dominated. Suggestions?


Advice


As the subject says, our entire party has been dominated. By a succubus.

Context:

Spoiler:
1) It's a kingmaker campaign.

2) I'm a player, not the GM (but I was GM during The Harrowing as a side-quest).

3) The three succubi from The Harrowing got loose in the kingdom, because reasons.

The succubi, having gotten some excellent intelligence earlier, charmed, dominated, and profane gifted the ruler of the kingdom (me) before the rest of the party even got back.

Then, one by one, they've done the same to every other party member. With each new conquest, they've convinced their existing thralls to help target the next, because they really have our best interests at heart.

The only one currently not dominated is our elven ranger, Varen. He still has a profane gift from earlier that was never cleared up, his will save is lousy, and I expect him to join the ranks of the dominated first thing next session.

Our orders are currently to go about our business as usual, i.e. investigate this whole Varnhold Vanishing bit. The only exception is that we are not to reveal the presence of the succubi, or do anything to oppose them. Since we see them as our friends and allies due to the charm monster effect, this did not seem an unreasonable order, and no new will saves were allowed.

One of them is tailing the party and renewing the charm and dominate spells on a regular schedule, while the other two solidify control of the kingdom by dominating and/or charming key NPCs.

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot I can do as a PC. I'm not sure if my character is even aware that he's currently a sock-puppet for Team Evil.

On a side note, the save DCs for the charm/dominate effects a succubus throws out are pretty significantly harder than a CR 7 rating would suggest. Yowza.

So ... any suggestions are welcome?


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Well, seeing as they've enslaved your entire party, have you considered switching to Maid RPG to continue the game?

More seriously, sounds like a TPK unless you want to continue until someone somehow makes all the will saves(or at least one to break the dominate) or rescues you all, but that feels sort of awkward in itself. There are a few ways to protect yourself from mental control, like protection from evil and its kind.


Is your council dominated too?


The council is either dominated now or will be soon. There are three succubi, each of whom get Dominate Person 1/day, and it lasts 9 days, so they can effectively carry 9 dominated puppets each, plus an unlimited number of charmed people. ONE of them has the party dominated. The other two have (I assume) been following a similar course with NPCs.

My bard cohort figured something was up and was actually on the way to get a Wand of Protection from Evil. But my own PC had been ordered to report people who were getting suspicious, and in short order -- one dominated bard, who now believes that everything is great, and she was just being paranoid before.

I for one am inclined to continue playing. Although I'm on the receiving end of this, I'm having an absurd amount of fun helping to tear down the kingdom we've been building up. ^_^


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow...sounds like the market for clear spindle ioun stones and wayfinders went way way up.

Of course *smart* villains already have cornered said market.

Still with the odds so stacked against the party it could make for a very very good story. If you like it so far, see where it goes. Otherwise barring a dint of good luck (making a series of will saves), a new PC (say a Paladin or other class with charm immunities/resistances), or worse a deus ex machina sounds like it was a TPK.

The game isn't supposed to be risk-free right? So there's always a chance that the PCs lose.


Well, until someone makes the save, there's not much you can do (apart from taking Improved Iron Will next level). If you do get free, see if you can get something like a familiar loose.

Does the ranger know something's up?

One thing to note, though: Anybody who's merely charmed (and not dominated) doesn't think the succubi are causing trouble, and therefore will be happy to wear things that counter mind control. ;D

All it takes is one animal messenger to get help, though. If you don't have friends, just promise a literal king's ransom to any mercenaries who manage to get you all free. It's embarrassing, but it may be the best shot at averting an utter failure for this promising nation.


Hmmm... go to somewhere hallowed or find yourself in a magic circle against evil, that might do the job. If you're specifically instructed not to go into such places or use such spells... yeah, that may be a problem.

The Exchange

Odds are good your GM has a scheme already in mind, but FuelDrop's suggestion is something you should loudly mention to your friends, in the GM's hearing. So he can use holy ground as a potential excuse for snapping some or all of the party members out of it.


Alternatively, using what is literally the one thing I know about Pathfinder, that long-suffering owlbear shows up as a zombie. The PCs are filled with such nostalgia they regard orders to protect the succubi from it as against their very nature, so they break free of the spell.

^ A really good solution I thought of all by myself.


lol @ Kobold Cleaver. We've already had a sloth crime lord

Hallow -- an excellent idea. There are very likely one or more hallowed places in the city. We have a cathedral, for example. And it would be very difficult for the succubi to neutralize that. They could persuade a dominated cleric to cast unhallow -- but as soon as the cleric stepped into the hallowed area to deliver the unhallow, he'd be warded by the Prot. from Evil circle and suddenly think "wait, what am I doing?" So they would need the willing participation of a 9th-level cleric or druid. Um, or a scroll and a good UMD check.

Clear spindle ioun stone + wayfinder -- I had no idea about that. If the GM could arrange either for something like that to drop as treasure, or for an undominated NPC to supply something similar, that might very well do the trick.

Very helpful. I'll mention it to the GM.


Also, the cleric would probably get a second save if ordered to cast an evil spell.

Shadow Lodge

Forget the mission and enjoy some tea with your fellow party members.


Enjoy this moment. It's actually a great opportunity for you as a GM, and for the players. It's also a classic moment in terms of storytelling. Everything is at its worst.

At this point in the Hero's Journey, you are in "The Pit (of Darkness)". The next step is the party finds "Allies and Opportunities" and they must demonstrate they have changed their ways.

They are in the grip of Evil, because Evil has won. They are paying the price. Despair should prevail and weaknesses are exploited. People's fears are realized.

What would James Bond do? (WWJBD?) He would get clever. He would use his sex appeal to turn the villain's girlfriend to his side. He would use every bit of British-ness to prove that the hero wins against all odds.

You use this to allow the players to come up with a plan that exploits the weaknesses of Evil. Let them collaborate and then start throwing them little hints: perhaps they notice the succubi are lazy (demons are arrogant and overconfident because they're used to getting everything they want).
- Quasits are given way too much responsibility (demons are lazy) and one or two of them may have important keys.
- Demons are ambitious, and are always looking for opportunities to exploit their masters'. The players may be aware of such weaknesses, and can strike a bargain in return for a betrayal.
- A deity becomes aware of Evil's dominations, and sends a disguised hound archon to ...remind a PC of something so important to them that they are able to shake off the domination at a key moment (they're shown a memento, like a lock of hair from someone they love, but ordered executed. Perhaps even a letter left behind by this loved-one before they were led to the block, forgiving the PC of their decision.)

Whatever it is, it should be a desperate act for the PC's to reach up out of the darkness, and they should embrace the light before they can do so.


Owly, the poster here is a player.


Does anybody on the council have a decent Sense Motive? That gives you a chance to notice when somebody's enchanted or dominated - and noticing domination actually has a not-too-outrageous DC. (I guess dominated people, try as they might, aren't good at 'acting normal'.)


I guess your only option is to trust the GM and see where this takes you. If he is foolish to sabotage his own campaign, then there is nothing you can do. Hopefully, he has a plan. Let his see the plan (or the sabotage) through.


It's only a DC 15 sense motive to figure out someone has been dominated even peasants can make that people are going to notice. Maybe even some people that can cast protection from evil.

Dominate person is not a effective why to subvert political power. The DC is easy and the people at court are going to have higher sense motive then average. The succubus would have been better off shape-changing to pretend to be you and keep you locked up to give them the information they need to maintain the pretense.

Actually I am surprised they have gotten this far did the DM not read Dominate person? Also there are other limitation like doing things against you nature (like betraying your friends if your good) gives a new will save.

Have you read the spell?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think part of the issue is that not only is the party dominated, the succubi also have charm at-will. So most of the party probably doesn't mind that the succubi renew their 'friendly blessing' (i.e. don't resist this spell) every few days.

Lots of potential for roleplay here, I'd roll with it.


someone that can banish?

Scarab Sages

First off, I don't know your DM. Some might just call it a tpk and make a new campaign, some might realize that they've messed up and try to fix it. Some might have planned this as part of the story.

First off, though, yes, you know you are dominated and are resisting, this isn't suggestion or bluff. Second off, remember, you get a new save (with a +2 bonus) EVERY TIME the dominator tells you to do something directly opposed to your nature. If you have a strong comroderie with your cohorts, turning them in might give you a new save (you probably would have had to show this before being dominated though.) Look for times when orders conflict with your characters core beliefs (incidentally, this is a great in game reason to have a good character and a good backstory.)

Lastly, as long as a succubus domination works as the spell (I can't recall right now), then you can only be ordered to one thing at a time. So if ordered to 'guard a place and report anyone suspicious' then that's what you do, but when she tells you to 'fetch her some water' then you are released from your previous duties. So if she orders you to report anyone acting suspiciously, as soon as she gives you another order, you don't need to report anyone anymore.

Lastly, introduce the trio to an Oracle with the legalistic curse. They get new saves vs. mind control EVERY minute. So even if they dominate the guy, he'll be 'out' in an hour.

Scarab Sages

An interesting idea moving forward is have the 'cabal' of evil start running the kingdom.
The 3 succubi and then some other 'like-minded' creatures making up the cabal, running things from the background.

The GM then can still throw kingdom events and such at the group and the players will still have an opportunity to respond. Will they sacrifice their pawns as part of a long game? Or do they seem them as useful tools to control the kingdom.

Depending on where you are in the Kingmaker campaign it could provide some very interesting role-playing opportunities.


who's the master of succubi?


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Owly, the poster here is a player.

He is? Well, hell. Shows you how smart I am.

Yeah, I'd say roll with it. Look for opportunities. Show some despair and contrition and be the hero when the occasion arises.


Consider what you could plausibly claim is 'against your nature' since this will get you bonus saving throws to escape control. (This depends a lot on what your GM will allow - after all, obeying the commands of a succubus would be against the nature of the vast majority of some PCs.)
If you break free and don't have the ability to free your allies, try to escape and hire spellcasters to do it for you. Most dominated people aren't going to be acting under instructions to resist Protection from Evil spells.


May I suggest ...

ANTIPALADIN!

It's a great way to kick back, relax, and justify your actions as you rule the kingdom with an iron fist. You might even be able to convince your GM to allow you to turn the tables, and take one of those succubi as your demon companion, and start giving her orders for a change.


Dominate's sufficiently invasive (complete with telepathic commands that must be obeyed!) that I'd assume the victim knows something is seriously wrong, and a sufficiently magic savvy PC could even determine "I am under the effect of a dominate person spell."

The kicker is that all of you charmed, and so are might be okay to being dominated.

Assuming the GM isn't planning on sinking his own campaign, just roll with it, though you may want to brush up on the descriptions of dominate person and charm monster. The spell DO have limits.


Have the Succubi send the party on what they, the succubi, think will be a simple short mission, and have the mission be delayed to past the dominating charm. (Or they walk though a magic dead area that cancels the dominate. Or people on the outside, maybe Pathfinder society, have recognized something wrong and countered the magic on the party in order to infiltrate the council.)

At this point, your party knows what is going on, and you can have them fit themselves out to take back the council, all while having to deal with trying to figure out, who is, and is not dominated. That and the succubi triplets will know that the party is potentially a problem and will send off other agents to find out and take care of them.

.. Making your problem into a new adventure branch.


Honestly I see this as a cool opportunity to have the players fight the succubus in their heads, defeating it with roleplay to break the domination. Ex. All of their minds connected to the succubus dominating them and if they figure out how to overwhem her or beat her or even escape her mind. Then they could get the jump on her


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Velos wrote:
Honestly I see this as a cool opportunity to have the players fight the succubus in their heads, defeating it with roleplay to break the domination. Ex. All of their minds connected to the succubus dominating them and if they figure out how to overwhem her or beat her or even escape her mind. Then they could get the jump on her

That would be taking a page out of Dragon's Age, where the party falls subject to a 'succubus' and the main character has to reunite them and tear down the blocks to get to the heart.

Scarab Sages

Hang in there and hope that evil reverts to type. With luck, the Succubi will start infighting over which of them gets to be top demon-wench and then maybe you'll get an opportunity to break free.


Goblin Hood wrote:
who's the master of succubi?

The succubi are unbound and acting on their own initiative.

Spoilers for The Harrowing:
We've just switched back to Kingmaker after running The Harrowing as a side quest. I was the GM for The Harrowing.

The succubi were originally the harem of Zassrion, the blue dragon BBEG of The Harrowing. But due to circumstances, he sent them on ahead into the real world as an advance scouting party. Then he got killed, and all of a sudden the succubi were loose on Golarion with nothing to do but amuse themselves.

Shain Edge wrote:
... have the mission be delayed to past the dominating charm.

A good thought, but one the GM took into account. One of the three is tailing the party and periodically renewing the spells. Of course, if we can manage to break loose, that means that one succubus is on her own with no support. Still dangerous, but

Zhangar wrote:
The kicker is that all of you are charmed, and so are might be okay to being dominated.

Yes, this is definitely part of the problem. She's told us that her spells are counteracting a curse we didn't even know we were under. A succubus has Bluff at +27, and the Charm effect makes us "perceive her words and actions in the most favorable way," meaning we want to believe she's telling us the truth (+5 on her bluff). At least three of the party have a reasonably decent Sense Motive -- +12, +14, +15 -- but so far that has not been enough.

With some clever phrasing, she can make us believe that some truly atrocious things are noble acts of which we would fully approve.

The Exchange

sounds like you have some truly tragic villains to eliminate so the new party can forge their way into glory. what is a few more corpses amongst the foundation?


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Do you have any casters with 3rd level spells in your party or better?

Here is what I would do. Go along with your dominated orders and go investigate things like they tell you. At the next evil monster combat doing this task, drop a protection or magic circle against evil as a party buff.

Everybody gets another save. If some people start saving successfully, they can start dropping more protections, dispel magic, break enchantment, whatever, and break the domination in the middle of combat.

From a roleplaying standpoint, somewhere in your subconsciousness, you know that you need to cast these spells on yourself, so you do whenever it is logical to do so while following orders.

Then the whole party either immediately takes on the lone succubus who cannot cast further enchantments while everybody is protected, or the party flees and hides. The latter would probably be the most fun because then you have to go and retake your kingdom back while probably being declared outlaws.


My one question: Is the game still fun?


bfobar -- that's a good thought. And one that I WON'T mention to the GM, else he might have the succubus forbid it. I believe we've got two people who can use that spell.

pennywit -- Heck yeah, the game is fun. I'm having a great time trying to figure out ways through this complicated mess. It's glorious. ^_^


I for one think you should welcome your new sexy overlords. Work with them And continue the game sure it will change the alignment of yoir nation but its workable.

Paizo Employee

Tinalles wrote:
Heck yeah, the game is fun. I'm having a great time trying to figure out ways through this complicated mess. It's glorious. ^_^

That's the spirit! :)

Cheers!
Landon


Tinalles wrote:

bfobar -- that's a good thought. And one that I WON'T mention to the GM, else he might have the succubus forbid it. I believe we've got two people who can use that spell.

pennywit -- Heck yeah, the game is fun. I'm having a great time trying to figure out ways through this complicated mess. It's glorious. ^_^

If the GM and all the players are having fun, I say roll with it. Of course, "roll with it" also means that you should exploit any opportunity you find to get out from under the succubi's whammy.

PS ...

Major Kingmaker spoilers, so don't click it if you're a player. Really, don't click it.:

Did you really think I'd put a spoiler in here? That would ruin the fun!


MrSin wrote:
Well, seeing as they've enslaved your entire party, have you considered switching to Maid RPG to continue the game?

This.

Alternatively, the succubus might have something she'd want to use adventurers for in the context of adventuring. Give the party a basic command, and suddenly that Dominate is more of a Geass without constant interference/direct oversight.


Really just imagining a random encounter where the players try to covertly dispel the enchantments while fighting and then having to turn on the succubus half way through while 1 or 2 characters is still dominated all at once is giving me a boner made entirely out of d20s. It's gonna be close to a TPK and so legendary if it works.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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This happened to me once back in college in the mid 90s, only it was a vampire and geas/quest spells got involved. The PCs new masters sent them on a mission to do something (blow up a church of Desna on a remote island), and once they accomplished their goal, the resulting blast of magic dispelled all of the effects on them. But it was too late; the church had been holding an Ancient Evil ward in place, and as a result of the PCs' actions while dominated, they released an ancient and incredibly powerful necromancer from the first age of magic. This necromancer set about waking up his minions across the continent, and while the PCs managed to eventually defeat the original necromancer before he rebuilt all his power, the other necromancers he woke up escaped and established new nations of their own in remote parts of the world, which opened up a brand new series of potential campaigns for my world to chew on.

As an amusing aside, the names of the surviving necromancers were Janus, Krune, Nocticula, and Belimarius. Some familiar names there, eh? ;-P

SO yeah, my suggestion to your GM would be...

Spoiler:
to send the PCs on a bad guy mission, then allow them to escape control at some point so they can go back and undo some of the damage they did and get revenge on that succubus!

And my suggestion to the player would be trust your GM to keep the story going and to build a cool resolution out that will be satisfying to your characters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh...even better...turn the tables. Perhaps even an immortal evil outsider can be redeemed. :)

Well I think that would make a good story...


Wolfsnap wrote:
Hang in there and hope that evil reverts to type. With luck, the Succubi will start infighting over which of them gets to be top demon-wench and then maybe you'll get an opportunity to break free.

I would go at it from this angle. If they say different orders to different PCs, as a PC I would let their particular succubus master know with a splash of suspicion. They're demons with a big dabble in court intrigue, work at it long enough and they'll be tearing each other apart soon enough.

If your orders don't otherwise permit, inquire to have a Pathfinder's Lodge built in the city. Where one group of adventurers have trouble, Hire a new one for the problem!


bfobar wrote:

Here is what I would do. Go along with your dominated orders and go investigate things like they tell you. At the next evil monster combat doing this task, drop a protection or magic circle against evil as a party buff.

Everybody gets another save. If some people start saving successfully, they can start dropping more protections, dispel magic, break enchantment, whatever, and break the domination in the middle of combat.

That was my first thought. Then I thought maybe having everyone switch to Liches and Grave Knights and Antipaladins and the like might make for a much more entertaining story arc.


Any clerics in the party? Or inquisitors, oracles or witches? Because I'd think their patron (gods) would disapprove of them being dominated and do something. Dreams, nightmares, difficulties obtaining good spells, send an investigator, there must be lots of minor interventions a god or a witch's patron can do.


So, how'd this go?

Zhangar wrote:

Dominate's sufficiently invasive (complete with telepathic commands that must be obeyed!) that I'd assume the victim knows something is seriously wrong, and a sufficiently magic savvy PC could even determine "I am under the effect of a dominate person spell."

The kicker is that all of you charmed, and so are might be okay to being dominated.

I don't really get this interpretation. Would you let a fellow partymember dominate you? No? Yeah. That's not what you let friends do.

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