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...and I'm sure it comes as no surprise. I used the search and found more confusion than answers.
The ability specifies that the Barbarian gains the benefit against any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural spell. It then says that the Barbarian can't be the willing recipient of any spells and must make a save against them.
Must make a save against any spells. It says that specifically, but specifically omits the previously mentioned spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities. That seems pretty cut and dried to me, but after searching, it seems some hold that one must save against spell-like abilities as well, while others think they must save against all three. Then I read that they have to save against potions, extracts and even magical abilities granted by gear they are wearing.
Which of the following would a Barbarian using Superstition have to save against and why:
A Cure Light Wounds spell?
A Cure Light Wounds potion?
Channelled Healing?
Having Touch of Rage cast upon them (Orchish Bloodline)?
Having Aura of Heroism activated by a nearby ally (Heroism Subdomain)?
Activating a Ring of Feather Falling?
Thanks in advance...
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dotting for personal interest.
This came up in my game also and I had ruled it that the player had to save against spells, but not supernaturals. This past week he told me he has to make the save against (Su)'s as well, so I would also like an answer.
I tend to see it like this: "Arr ya magik ? I hate yaaaaa!!!"
So Spell-like, potions, magic items and the like, I'll make the save.
Well, it only says "spells" so that is all it has to apply to. But I definitely think a DM would be within reason to apply the restriction to spell-like abilities and some magic items too.
Supernatural abilities and many magic items are trickier, since they might be less noticeably magic in nature.
CLW spell, absolutely.
CLW potion, I say yes since the potion is just a stored spell, and I would ask why the barbarian would voluntarily drink it in the first place.
Channelled Healing, nothing says you can save vs. healing in the ability. And the ability may be subtle (nothing says it has to be a wave of golden energy) so not obviously magic.
Touch of Rage SLA, no save is listed in the description, and the closest spell Rage also has no save.
Aura of Heroism SU, its not a spell so officially no. But it replicates a spell that allows a save, so I would probably say yes.
Ring of Feather Fall, again, if you distrust magic why is he wearing a ring that creates a spell effect? I say yes since feather fall allows a save.
I'll toss another log on the fire - if a Barbarian has the ability to actually cast a spell or use a spell-like ability himself (multi-class, gestalt or even a racial ability), I can't find a single RAW that disallows it.
As to the OP, in our game we've house-ruled that he must save against anything Arcane (spell, SLA, Supernatural, whatever), but doesn't have to save against anything Divine. It makes for a nice compromise and adds some flavor to the 'superstitious' nature of the character.
And what about something like Bardic Performance? That's little more than inspiring and there are tons of examples of such even in Barbaric cultures. If they did have to save, would they have to save every round?
The fact that all of a Barbarian's abilities are specified as Extraordinary abilities is very telling, I think.
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others think they must save against all three.
I'm in this camp, and any spell, spell-like-ability, or supernatural ability that isn't Save No he would have to save. This includes spells with Save Yes (helpful) spells/spell-likes/etc.
If the ability doesn't have a save (does Inspire Courage have a save?) then you wouldn't need to make a save.
others think they must save against all three.I'm in this camp, and any spell, spell-like-ability, or supernatural ability that isn't Save No he would have to save. This includes spells with Save Yes (helpful) spells/spell-likes/etc.
If the ability doesn't have a save (does Inspire Courage have a save?) then you wouldn't need to make a save.
I understand that people are in that camp - I'm trying to understand what in RAW validates that position... I don't really have a dog in this fight, but do I need to understand how it officially works.
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Strictly speaking as the rules go it says:
"The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities."
So he gets the bonuses on those three types of effects.
"While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies."
It only applies the penalty to spells. So no save needed on spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities.
That is the ability strictly by the rules. That is the RAW position.
If they spelled it out what effects he gets the bonuses, then they should have spelled out the same effects to apply the penalty or in this case having to make the save.
Other than that, run it by your DM for confirmation, but that is the Rule as Written.
Strictly speaking as the rules go it says:
"The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities."
So he gets the bonuses on those three types of effects.
"While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies."
It only applies the penalty to spells. So no save needed on spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities.
That is the ability strictly by the rules. That is the RAW position.
If they spelled it out what effects he gets the bonuses, then they should have spelled out the same effects to apply the penalty or in this case having to make the save.
Other than that, run it by your DM for confirmation, but that is the Rule as Written.
Thanks - that was my initial interpretation but it was brought up at the table, and when I started searching past threads on the issue, it seemed to become more and more muddied.
Thanks - that was my initial interpretation but it was brought up at the table, and when I started searching past threads on the issue, it seemed to become more and more muddied.
Many tables run it where it applies to spell-like abilities and/or supernatural abilities due to the fact that the bonuses apply to those effects as well. However, you asked for the RAW so the RAW is that they do not have to make saves versus spell-like and supernatural abilities.
Now, having seen one of these barbarians in action and how difficult they are to take down with saves, then I would be sympathetic to a DM who chose to run it their own way and not RAW. However, I have seen those barbarian goes down due to the fact that they cannot get such easy access to healing. So, by running with RAW you allow them to receive Channel Energy and keep them on the front line.
Combined with a focused Oracle of Life, a Barbarian with Superstition is a wrecking machine!!
Thanks - that was my initial interpretation but it was brought up at the table, and when I started searching past threads on the issue, it seemed to become more and more muddied.Many tables run it where it applies to spell-like abilities and/or supernatural abilities due to the fact that the bonuses apply to those effects as well. However, you asked for the RAW so the RAW is that they do not have to make saves versus spell-like and supernatural abilities.
Now, having seen one of these barbarians in action and how difficult they are to take down with saves, then I would be sympathetic to a DM who chose to run it their own way and not RAW. However, I have seen those barbarian goes down due to the fact that they cannot get such easy access to healing. So, by running with RAW you allow them to receive Channel Energy and keep them on the front line.
Combined with a focused Oracle of Life, a Barbarian with Superstition is a wrecking machine!!
Indeed. We have an Invulnerable Rager at our table - based on his build, its looking like he'll have DR 18/- by 12th level and it'll continue to grow from there. His Superstition bonus will be +7 and rising. You don't need much healing when nothing in your CR level can damage you...
I'm having him check his math now.
"While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies."It only applies the penalty to spells. So no save needed on spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities.
That is the ability strictly by the rules. That is the RAW position.
on supernatural abilities this seems correct, but what about spell-likes?
"Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."
Spell-like abilities fall into a more grey area.
By the strictest reading the barbarian would not have to save because spell-like abilities are not listed.
However, as you quoted from the Magic section, it says "In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell." However, in the Universal Monster Rules it says "Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components)."
So they are like spells in some ways but they are not like spells in other ways. The question becomes are they like spells for the Barbarian with Superstition?
Again, the RAW answer is no because they are not listed in the Rage Power description.
That being said, the final decision lies on the DM's mighty shoulders so that would be the next step to see how the DM wants to run it.
on supernatural abilities this seems correct, but what about spell-likes?
"Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."
I considered that, but the fact that the ability specifically mentions spell-like abilities in the first part of the description and specifically omits it in the second seems to dictate proper intent.
And even then the above quote isn't quite right - do SLA's provoke AoO's? Spells do. Do SLA's that don't mimic existing spells qualify for Quicken SLA? I've seen some pretty compelling arguments that they shouldn't... just a few examples which suggest that while they function is a mostly similar manner, they are definitely not the same thing.
it seems they are not spells but are considered spells for everything except the explicitly listed exceptions (components, casting time etc)?
they function like a spell. so say someone uses cure light wounds as an SLA. this functions like the clw spell. what happens when a barbarian is affected by a clw spell? it has to try to make the save.
the magic sections says that SLAs function like spells in all ways except a few which it lists: components, focuses, armor, casting time.
the bestiary section doesn't change this, it just says the same thing again, though only mentions the exception of components.
think there's a very strong raw argument that slas must be saved against.
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I would agree that there is a strong argument to be made in favor of saves for spell-like abilities. However, it really comes down to the wording of the feat as it would be an example of a specific rule (the feat) over-ruing a general rule (Spell-Like Abilities).
The issue is that they add spell-like abilities in the top of the rule and then specifically omit it in the bottom part. Is the omission enough evidence to have us a fall back to the general Spell-Like Ability rules or was it meant to actually omit them from being affected by the feat?
I would probably rule the latter if I was DM of such a character, but that could be debated.
Again, if we go rules-lawyer then the Barbarian should not make a save versus spell-like abilities, but I like to play with more common sense than just what the letter of the law says. I would look to see how it plays out and if it really matters to the flow of the game and the balance. That is why a good DM is a great referee.
it seems they are not spells but are considered spells for everything except the explicitly listed exceptions (components, casting time etc)?
they function like a spell. so say someone uses cure light wounds as an SLA. this functions like the clw spell. what happens when a barbarian is affected by a clw spell? it has to try to make the save.
the magic sections says that SLAs function like spells in all ways except a few which it lists: components, focuses, armor, casting time.
the bestiary section doesn't change this, it just says the same thing again, though only mentions the exception of components.
think there's a very strong raw argument that slas must be saved against.
Again, why specifically mention SLA's in the first part of the ability description and specifically omit them in the second part?
What about SLA's that don't have a spell equivalent?
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Is the Barbarian a Human?
Did he select the Favored Class Bonus to add +1/3 to his Superstitious Rage Power?
When you check his math, be sure he didn't take that FCB at level 1 (or anytime before he chose that Rage Power). Many Barbarians I've seen do.
Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?
No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.
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And what about something like Bardic Performance? That's little more than inspiring and there are tons of examples of such even in Barbaric cultures. If they did have to save, would they have to save every round?
The fact that all of a Barbarian's abilities are specified as Extraordinary abilities is very telling, I think.
Chances are if you get to save against a Bardic Performance, it's not one you'd want to affect you any way. Inspire Competence/Courage/Heroism and the likes don't offer any saves.
The only beneficial performance I can think of that allows a save is the Savage Skald's Incite Rage, and even if the GM rules a superstitious barbarian has to save against supernatural abilities, he's probably not going to be raging when the performance begins, so it largely remains a non-issue.|
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what in RAW validates that position... I don't really have a dog in this fight, but do I need to understand how it officially works.
Context. They used in the first line spells, SLA, and Supernatural. It makes for more awkward reading to repeat that in the follow up sentence. Plus in the Magical Effects section, it uses the word spell to cover spells and effects like supernatural effects and other things. So it is common in the rules to say "spells" and mean "spells and other effects".
That is the ability strictly by the rules. That is the RAW position.
That is one RAW reading.
be sure he didn't take that FCB at level 1
Considering he read "spells" as just applying to spells and not SLA/Su, I'd also bet he took it at 1st.
Indeed. We have an Invulnerable Rager at our table - based on his build, its looking like he'll have DR 18/- by 12th level and it'll continue to grow from there. His Superstition bonus will be +7 and rising. You don't need much healing when nothing in your CR level can damage you...
WOW! My superstitious Invulnerable Rager would LOVE to know how he got his DR up that high. With 90% of DR not stacking, what is he using to boost it? Even if his math is a little off, can you post the build?
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The Stalwart feat can add another +5 to a Barbarian's DR.
So a 12th level Invulnerable Rager can actually get DR up to 14.
EDIT: Oh. 18 > 14. Nevermind. Now I'm curious, too.
Indeed. We have an Invulnerable Rager at our table - based on his build, its looking like he'll have DR 18/- by 12th level and it'll continue to grow from there. His Superstition bonus will be +7 and rising. You don't need much healing when nothing in your CR level can damage you...WOW! My superstitious Invulnerable Rager would LOVE to know how he got his DR up that high. With 90% of DR not stacking, what is he using to boost it? Even if his math is a little off, can you post the build?
I'm the one who's making the character - this is the build as it stands right now:
Human 18th level Invulnerable Rager / 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter
Human FCB, Heart of the Fields
Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 @ 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level)
DEX - 10
CON - 15 (+1 @ 4th level)
INT - 14
WIS - 10
CHA - 8
Traits:
Threatening Defender
Berserker of the Society
Feats & Rage Powers:
1st - Power Attack
1st - Combat Expertise
2nd - Superstition
3rd - Extra Rage Power: Animal Fury
4th - Intimidating Glare
5th - Endurance
5th - Diehard
7th - Stalwart
7th - Dragon Totem
9th - Extra Rage Power: Increased DR
9th - Dragon Totem Resilience
11th - Improved Stalwart
11th - Reckless Abandon
13th - Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
13th - Dragon Totem Wings
15th - Raging Brutality
15th - Increased DR
17th - Extra Rage Power: Ghost Rager
17th - Increased DR
19th - Auspicious Mark
19th - Strength Surge
20th - Improved Initiative
The two levels of Unbreakable Fighter are taken at 5th and 20th.
Starting with 11th level when you get Improved Stalwart, this is how the DR stacks up (and all of it definitely stacks):
11th DR 16/- (5 from Invulnerable Rager +4 from Dragon Totem Resilience +1 from Increased DR + 6 from Improved Stalwart)
12th DR 18/- (5 from Invulnerable Rager +4 from Dragon Totem Resilience +1 from Increased DR + 8 from Improved Stalwart)
13th DR 21/- (6 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +1 from Increased DR + 8 from Improved Stalwart)
14th DR 21/- (6 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +1 from Increased DR + 8 from Improved Stalwart)
15th DR 23/- (7 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +2 from Increased DR + 8 from Improved Stalwart)
16th DR 25/- (7 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +2 from Increased DR + 10 from Improved Stalwart)
17th DR 27/- (8 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +3 from Increased DR + 10 from Improved Stalwart)
18th DR 27/- (8 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +3 from Increased DR + 10 from Improved Stalwart)
19th DR 28/- (9 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +3 from Increased DR + 10 from Improved Stalwart)
20th DR 28/- (9 from Invulnerable Rager +6 from Dragon Totem Resilience +3 from Increased DR + 10 from Improved Stalwart)
...and that's all butt-nekkid. Theoretically you could get more earlier by being more liberal with the Increased DR Rage Powers, but I prefer the selections as they are. There's also some sort of error involving what happens with Improved stalwart when you reach BAB +20, so in theory you could get +2 more and make it +12 instead of +10 for a nice even DR 30/- but it would take an official ruling or a GM's consent to make it so.
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Im in the camp of spells and spell like abilities. Reason for spell like abilities is because if they can count for spells for obtaining a feat or prc, then they count as spells in tbsi situation as well. Cant have it counting as spells only when u get a benefit but should also countbas spells when its not a benefit.
channel spells i would say yes because there is a save and if they pass the save they get half healing whereas if they failed they would receive full healing.
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I see. Clear these up for me as I am still learning and I fear I have misconceptions as to how stuff works.
First I didn't think you could use Dragon Totem Resilience as you no longer have barbarian damage reduction class feature (which this rage power modifies - it adds 2 to it for each dragon totem rage power you possess...etc..) When you took Invulnerable Rager you gave up the barbarian damage reduction class feature for Invulnerability (Ex).
The same goes for Increased DR, it is modifying something you no longer have (the Invulnerability (Ex) is a special ability that replaced the "damage reduction" class feature and has special DR that counts double for Non-lethal.) Even if you could take it, it just would not stack, as it is a separate source (as the DR it provides is different from the special Non-lethal double protection that Invulnerable Rager enjoys).
Stalwart/Improved Stalwart: Those seem to work! Thanks!
If I am incorrect about Dragon Totem or "Increased DR" let me know as I would like to take those, if they work differently than I thought.
I see. Clear these up for me as I am still learning and I fear I have misconceptions as to how stuff works.
First I didn't think you could use Dragon Totem Resilience as you no longer have barbarian damage reduction class feature (which this rage power modifies - it adds 2 to it for each dragon totem rage power you possess...etc..) When you took Invulnerable Rager you gave up the barbarian damage reduction class feature for Invulnerability (Ex).
The same goes for Increased DR, it is modifying something you no longer have (the Invulnerability (Ex) is a special ability that replaced the "damage reduction" class feature and has special DR that counts double for Non-lethal.) Even if you could take it, it just would not stack, as it is a separate source (as the DR it provides is different from the special Non-lethal double protection that Invulnerable Rager enjoys).
Stalwart/Improved Stalwart: Those seem to work! Thanks!
If I am incorrect about Dragon Totem or "Increased DR" let me know as I would like to take those, if they work differently than I thought.
I can say this - in many years of play, this is the first time I've ever heard of this interpretation of the rules, and I've never seen an interpretation like this enforced, not in PFS play or otherwise.
It seems to me that ruling that an archetype, one based on DR, can't benefit from any of the DR enhancing options available to everyone else would be backwards at best.
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I'll toss another log on the fire - if a Barbarian has the ability to actually cast a spell or use a spell-like ability himself (multi-class, gestalt or even a racial ability), I can't find a single RAW that disallows it.
I didn't see this part addressed so I'd like to address it.
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
To cast a spell, you must concentrate.
That should clear up that little tidbit.
Thanks Robert, I meant to mention that a Barbarian cannot do much spell casting while raging unless he has Moment of Clarity or something like that.
Thanks Robert, I meant to mention that a Barbarian cannot do much spell casting while raging unless he has Moment of Clarity or something like that.
Or Focused Rage maybe?
Or Focused Rage maybe?
That is a 3rd party and not even on d20PFRD so I do not have a clue what it does. Plus I stay away from most 3rd party stuff, especially in rules discussions.
Or Focused Rage maybe?That is a 3rd party and not even on d20PFRD so I do not have a clue what it does. Plus I stay away from most 3rd party stuff, especially in rules discussions.
The Urban Barbarian is 3PP?
Ah - my mistake, I should have said 'Controlled Rage'...
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In looking at Controlled Rage under the Urban Barbarian archetype I noticed a glaring discrepancy.
Controlled Rage:
"When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage."
I noticed the abilities that require Concentration were not listed just SKILLS based on those ability scores.
So look to Rage as the last line says it follows the normal rules for Rage.
Rage:
"While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."
So it appears that Controlled Rage still does not allow you to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.
This is in comparison to Moment of Clarity that says:
"The barbarian does not gain any benefits or take any of the penalties from rage for 1 round."
That would obviously allow the barbarian to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability.
Seems clear-cut to me. It says you have to save vs all spells. Doesn't say a thing about spell-likes or supernaturals, so you don't have to save.
Since the ability title is merely flavor text, can be renamed, and has no bearing on the functioning of the ability or the personality of the character, using it as any kind of justification is meaningless.
Seems clear-cut to me. It says you have to save vs all spells. Doesn't say a thing about spell-likes or supernaturals, so you don't have to save.
Since the ability title is merely flavor text, can be renamed, and has no bearing on the functioning of the ability or the personality of the character, using it as any kind of justification is meaningless.
I would say that you have to save against spell-like abilities.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
All is a very inclusive term.
Seems clear-cut to me. It says you have to save vs all spells. Doesn't say a thing about spell-likes or supernaturals, so you don't have to save.
Since the ability title is merely flavor text, can be renamed, and has no bearing on the functioning of the ability or the personality of the character, using it as any kind of justification is meaningless.
I would say that you have to save against spell-like abilities.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.All is a very inclusive term.
Do SLA's provoke AoO's just like spells?
Do SLA's provoke AoO's just like spells?Seems clear-cut to me. It says you have to save vs all spells. Doesn't say a thing about spell-likes or supernaturals, so you don't have to save.
Since the ability title is merely flavor text, can be renamed, and has no bearing on the functioning of the ability or the personality of the character, using it as any kind of justification is meaningless.
I would say that you have to save against spell-like abilities.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.All is a very inclusive term.
All means all.
Huh I never noticed that. The person above who pointed out drafon resilience doesnt work with invuln rager is correct.
When archetypes trade out class festures its clear they don't have them anymore.
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All means all.
All does not always mean all...
"Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components)."
"Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled."
So even though spell-like abilities are like spells (hence the name) there are a few areas where they are different and those are usually listed in the rules. Hence we need to be cautious when we lay down blanket statements like all or always.
Edit: Mojorat, you are right that really is a good point. A great FAQ would be, does the Barbarian Invulnerable Rager archetype ability Invulnerability count as Damage Reduction to qualify for Feats like Dragon Totem that say 'this resistance equals double her current DR/— from her barbarian damage reduction class feature'? This is being asked because Invulnerability has replaced Damage Reduction but it is still giving the Barbarian Damage Reduction.
Isn't the +4 extra DR from Dragon Resilience only for the energy resistance? From the power below, it doesn't say anything about increasing his personal DR.
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains resistance to the energy type that is associated with her dragon totem—acid (black, copper, green), cold (silver, white), electricity (blue, bronze), or fire (brass, gold, red). This resistance equals double her current DR/— from her barbarian damage reduction class feature; this DR increases by 2 for each dragon totem rage power she possesses, including this one.
Huh I never noticed that. The person above who pointed out drafon resilience doesnt work with invuln rager is correct.
When archetypes trade out class festures its clear they don't have them anymore.
Not that clear.
There have been rulings that abilities can still be treated as their standard version. Like the dragoon's spear training that is treated as weapon training for effects that modify it. Like the duellist gloves.Seems applicable to me here. It changes the power and the name but it is still similar enough in what it does that it can be treated as the original ability.
Isn't the +4 extra DR from Dragon Resilience only for the energy resistance? From the power below, it doesn't say anything about increasing his personal DR.
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains resistance to the energy type that is associated with her dragon totem—acid (black, copper, green), cold (silver, white), electricity (blue, bronze), or fire (brass, gold, red). This resistance equals double her current DR/— from her barbarian damage reduction class feature; this DR increases by 2 for each dragon totem rage power she possesses, including this one.
The DR is increased by 2 per rage power, the resistance is double that.
Not to argue, but why?
It only talks about energy resistance in this ability.
It is giving him damage reduction (Core p561) but it doesn't give him Damage Reduction (Ex) (Core p34.)
I know that. Which is why I thought it would be good to get a ruling as to whether a similar class feature of a different name would be able to still be used in a situation like this to qualify or modify another ability.
By RAW Dragon Totem Resilience does not give an Invulnerable Rager any Resistance bonus to the associated energy and it does not give them an increase in DR as both are set off the Barbarian Class Feature Damage Reduction which was replaced.
Not to argue, but why?
It only talks about energy resistance in this ability.
The wording of the text is "This resistance equals double her current DR/— from her barbarian damage reduction class feature; this DR increases by 2 for each dragon totem rage power she possesses, including this one."
So, yes, you get Resistance equal to double your Damage Reduction Class Feature to one type of energy. Then their is a semicolon (;) that starts a new clause that says that "this DR," meaning the Barbarian Damage Reduction Class Feature, increases by 2 points per Dragon Totem feat.
Two abilities for one feat.
Nefreet, that could be but one would think they would clean that up rather quickly so I doubt that is the case.
Dragon Totem Resilience also requires at least three prerequisite Rage Powers and a level requirement, while Increased Damage Reduction just requires 8th level Barbarian. SO it is not that unlikely to get the extra benefit of the increased DR with the Dragon Totem line of Rage Powers.
Maybe we can see some FAQ or clarification on the whole subject.
Plus, there's already a Rage Power that increases your DR by +1. It's highly unlikely Dragon Totem Resilience gives you +2, and another +2 for each of the other Dragon-related powers.
It is a totem power so taking this prevents you from getting pounce.