I'm working on my current campaign, which thematically is what I call a D&D Utropia (the most quintessential and complete D&D experience ever) and I am working on the Nega Party boss fight that happens before the long series of final battles.
This fight happens to have a cleric (ecclesitheurge focused on buffing and healing my party) with the Leadership and Defense domains, and hence Leadership as a feat. So I'm looking into the best way to use my b~*!@ friend to assist my cleric in living longer and making the high level fight more interesting.
What I've come up with is: level 14 elf/half-elf witchguard ranger with VMC cavalier (order of the dragon) and additional traits to pick up (Adopted-lol halflings because f*** mechanics) and Helpful which Improves Aid Another.
Now, Aid Another itself is a funny little thing, and I think I've broken it on accident/purpose.
Feats:
1) Elven Battle Training/(feat, maybe depending on race)
2) Combat Reflexes
3) Challenge (+4/+12), Body Guard
5) Additional Traits
6) Weapon Finesse
7) Order Ability (Aid Allies, additional +3), In Harm's Way
9) Swift Aid
10) Combat Expertise
11) Tactician (Harrying Partners)
13) Favored Defense
14) Lunge
Naturally I am picking up a ring to help.
What I've come up with is by taking Harrying Partner, I can stack Aid Anothers on my cleric minimum 3 times per round (assuming I end up wasting an AOO) and every subsequent attack I can spend another of my (hopefully numerous) AOOs to keep stacking AC on the cleric.
Not sure on the math because words are dumb and abilities weren't written with the intent on stacking
Swift Aid [+6] +1 (normal) +1 (doubling for Helpful) +3 Aid Allies +1 ring
Standard Aid [2 acts using Revised Action Economy, +8] +4 (normal) +3 Aid Allies +1 ring
Bodyguard/Combat Expertise [using reaction(s), +8 each)
Am I doing the math right? So long as my witchguard lives he'll add minimum +22 AC that stacks with itself and lasts all turn?
Plus his class ability which adds +6 dodge and +6 on concentration checks for Wis/rounds per day.
Ideally the fight will have the party target the cleric, realize they need to kill the ranger first, then gives the cleric a turn to put up Prismatic Sphere once my witchguard is down, leading into the second act of the cleric's fight.
Array is elite array, using Marshmallow's Simple Advanced Template (same as increasing a monster with class levels, +4/+4/+2/+2/-2/+0), And assume using Strength Patron to gain Divine Power and Bull's Strength so BS, Cat's Grace, and Bear's Endurance should all be up pre-fight. Instant Enemy helps stack Favored Enemy bonuses to his own dodge to keep himself alive (hopefully for at least a turn).
I'm leaning towards either an Elven Curve Blade or something similar.
What should the cleric be doing to keep the witchguard alive for his one-two turns?
Aid Another only works on one attack (by the ally or the enemy, depending on if you aid to-hit or AC) unless you have an ability that lets your Aid Another work for 1 round instead of 1 attack. So no, it's not any more broken than, say, a True Strike spell.
You're also not factoring in Benevolent Weapons or Armor. Adding their Enhancement Bonus to all of your relevant Aid Another checks can make your Aid Another attempts even more effective.
**EDIT**
If you had access to a scaling CL, picking up Arcane Strike and Gloves of Arcane Striking would further increase your aiding effectiveness, adding more AC, or even damage.
Aid Another only works on one attack (by the ally or the enemy, depending on if you aid to-hit or AC) unless you have an ability that lets your Aid Another work for 1 round instead of 1 attack. So no, it's not any more broken than, say, a True Strike spell.
You're also not factoring in Benevolent Weapons or Armor. Adding their Enhancement Bonus to all of your relevant Aid Another checks can make your Aid Another attempts even more effective.
**EDIT**
If you had access to a scaling CL, picking up Arcane Strike and Gloves of Arcane Striking would further increase your aiding effectiveness, adding more AC, or even damage.
Harrying Partner lets the bonuses last until my next turn, and per RAW, Aid Another lets similar bonuses stack with themselves.
Benevolent Armor that is enhanced by the cleric using Magic Vestment is probably a good idea.
Nice call.
Gloves of Arcane Striking will require more cheese than I think is currently available, but nice to know about.
Even with RAW, GMs can use same source against you; at least, I certainly would, if only to tailor the power given from "abusing" Aid Another. I'd allow Aid Another from other creatures to stack, as they are "similar bonuses," but I would not allow Aid Another from the same creature to stack, due that the bonuses granted aren't "similar," but identical.
I am fairly sure that multiple aids from the same creature don't stack.
And even though Harrying partner lets the bonus last, it doesn't change that the action only gives the bonus to AC to attacks from a single creature.
Main problem is though, this probably doesn't matter a whole lot. Since you are looking at a level 14 cohort it must be a 16 level cleric, so the cleric isn't going to be doing much if any attacking, rather he will be casting spells, so the bonus to attack is useless.
You didn't say what level the party they are facing is, but presumably it is somewhere near that too, so spells will be the biggest danger to your cleric, not weapons. The second greatest danger will probably be ranged attacks, which aid another has pretty much no was to increase AC against.
The cohort might be able to neutralize a big melee hitter for one round, before that guy switches to him, but that is about it. Probably the same effect could be achieved by just having the cohort attack, especially if all the resources you spent on getting aid another high were just used to make the cohort dangerous enough to require neutralization.
I am fairly sure that multiple aids from the same creature don't stack.
And even though Harrying partner lets the bonus last, it doesn't change that the action only gives the bonus to AC to attacks from a single creature.
Main problem is though, this probably doesn't matter a whole lot. Since you are looking at a level 14 cohort it must be a 16 level cleric, so the cleric isn't going to be doing much if any attacking, rather he will be casting spells, so the bonus to attack is useless.
You didn't say what level the party they are facing is, but presumably it is somewhere near that too, so spells will be the biggest danger to your cleric, not weapons. The second greatest danger will probably be ranged attacks, which aid another has pretty much no was to increase AC against.
The cohort might be able to neutralize a big melee hitter for one round, before that guy switches to him, but that is about it. Probably the same effect could be achieved by just having the cohort attack, especially if all the resources you spent on getting aid another high were just used to make the cohort dangerous enough to require neutralization.
Cleric is focused on Dispelling, Counterspelling, and healing allies.
But the values from Aid Another are in fact different, since Swift Aid uses a different action and grants a different bonus. Seems they are similar but not identical. There's probably a rule somewhere that clarifies how swift aid and regular aid interact.
There's gonna be more enemies anyway, I'm not that concerned about ranged attacks in general, I do have to deal with a grenadier alchemist with Clustered Shots though. Gonna need ways to dodge those, if I care.
Ideally it won't matter what the numeric bonus is, I want my AC to be so hyperbolicly high that attack rolls won't matter, save for a 20 until you kill the ranger.
The ranger is going to be focused on using fighting defensively to increase his own AC, but not as high. As long as he's hitable, then the fight will go as planned. I don't intend on him lasting more than a couple rounds anyway.
But the values from Aid Another are in fact different, since Swift Aid uses a different action and grants a different bonus. Seems they are similar but not identical. There's probably a rule somewhere that clarifies how swift aid and regular aid interact.
The full sentence on the base aid another rule and stacking is "Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack." Similar bonuses would mean multiple bonuses to AC (from multiple people) or multiple bonuses to hit.
The action type doesn't matter, and doesn't impact stacking, nor does how large or small a bonus is. An Untyped bonus normally will stack with other bonuses, unless it from the same source. Aid another clarifies that aid another bonuses from different characters are not the same source, it doesn't specifically mention multiple aid another attempts for one character to one other character, but it not mentioning that indicates to me that there are no special rules here, and we fall back to the general same source stacking, which it seems to me the source is the same (Ranger using aid another.)
Your game though. I expect that this tactic won't be terribly effective anyway. If it is terribly effective though, I also expect that every player in your game from no on will take leadership and make themselves a bodyguard cohort, so when you think about how the rules should be interpreted, think about that.
As for the rest, You know your group I guess. If I was playing in the game though, and I was worried about a bad guy having a high AC due to aid another, the fist thing I would do is drop a wall between them.
Of course at this level, I wouldn't really be worried about that anyway, since I probably would have opened up with a couple of dazing fireballs to start off the fun.
But the values from Aid Another are in fact different, since Swift Aid uses a different action and grants a different bonus. Seems they are similar but not identical. There's probably a rule somewhere that clarifies how swift aid and regular aid interact.The full sentence on the base aid another rule and stacking is "Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack." Similar bonuses would mean multiple bonuses to AC (from multiple people) or multiple bonuses to hit.
The action type doesn't matter, and doesn't impact stacking, nor does how large or small a bonus is. An Untyped bonus normally will stack with other bonuses, unless it from the same source. Aid another clarifies that aid another bonuses from different characters are not the same source, it doesn't specifically mention multiple aid another attempts for one character to one other character, but it not mentioning that indicates to me that there are no special rules here, and we fall back to the general same source stacking, which it seems to me the source is the same (Ranger using aid another.)
Your game though. I expect that this tactic won't be terribly effective anyway. If it is terribly effective though, I also expect that every player in your game from no on will take leadership and make themselves a bodyguard cohort, so when you think about how the rules should be interpreted, think about that.
As for the rest, You know your group I guess. If I was playing in the game though, and I was worried about a bad guy having a high AC due to aid another, the fist thing I would do is drop a wall between them.
Of course at this level, I wouldn't really be worried about that anyway, since I probably would have opened up with a couple of dazing fireballs to start off the fun.
IKR
Silly players, letting me have fun too.Evasion is good for that, plus I got Spell Resistance going and Spell Immunity prepped for signature spells once they get cast and my cleric sees it.
The idea is for them to figure out the puzzle quickly. I'll be happy to get a free turn or two. Interesting and not what you've seen before is more important to me than being mechanically optimal. They're bad guys, designed to die.
Interesting and not what you've seen before is more important to me than being mechanically optimal. They're bad guys, designed to die.
Fair enough. I'd probably try to achieve that without going anywhere near questionable rulings and exploiting edge cases, but it's your game.
Interesting and not what you've seen before is more important to me than being mechanically optimal. They're bad guys, designed to die.Fair enough. I'd probably try to achieve that without going anywhere near questionable rulings and exploiting edge cases, but it's your game.
Even +11 against a single attack would be okay with me.