Mister Fluffykins |
I don't have my copy of the book on me at present, but I can't imagine Rasputin sitting in the middle of a Bolshevik army camp. Still, I have to admit that the hair's breadth by which the AP misses 1917 makes me a little sad; one of my favorite years in Russian history (and arguably, the year in which most Russian citizens enjoyed the greatest degree of personal liberty in the entirety of the last ~1200 years of well recorded history they've got.)
So close, and yet, so far.
TritonOne |
I don't have my copy of the book on me at present, but I can't imagine Rasputin sitting in the middle of a Bolshevik army camp. Still, I have to admit that the hair's breadth by which the AP misses 1917 makes me a little sad; one of my favorite years in Russian history (and arguably, the year in which most Russian citizens enjoyed the greatest degree of personal liberty in the entirety of the last ~1200 years of well recorded history they've got.)
So close, and yet, so far.
Found it:
Akuvskaya Prison Camp
Rasputin’s stronghold is an ancient thirteenth-century
monastery built on older pagan sites of lost significance.
It was abandoned for centuries, until the Imperial Russian
government commandeered it for use as a prison camp for
criminals and deserters during the Great War. Russia’s new
Bolshevik government then appropriated the camp to hold
Imperial loyalists following the October Revolution. Most
recently, Rasputin’s forces overran the prison, arming those
within and turning the prison camp’s defenses outward.
So Russian soldiers should be White Guard, White Army, or Anti-Communist soldiers to differentiate them from the Bolshevik Red Army.
TritonOne |
Provisional Siberian Government (Vladivostok) or Provisional Government of Autonomous Siberia (PGAS)?
Privisional Siberian Government (Vladivostok)
Mike Franke |
Orfamay Quest wrote:The Russians bathe regularly ;)steve steve 983 wrote:Damn :( I was hoping to find some references to German troops to use.What's the difference between Russian and German troops in this context?
German soldiers were competently trained and armed.
and yea, real world Rasputin did not make it to the Civil War seeing as how he was killed in 1916, but ...since this is not the real world ... it is more fun to have him still alive and up to nefarious no goodness a few years later.
captain yesterday |
captain yesterday wrote:Orfamay Quest wrote:The Russians bathe regularly ;)steve steve 983 wrote:Damn :( I was hoping to find some references to German troops to use.What's the difference between Russian and German troops in this context?German soldiers were competently trained and armed.
and yea, real world Rasputin did not make it to the Civil War seeing as how he was killed in 1916, but ...since this is not the real world ... it is more fun to have him still alive and up to nefarious no goodness a few years later.
I know, just kidding, my wife is German:)
TritonOne |
I wonder if steve steve 983 was hoping that Reign of Winter would have villainous Nazis and Nazi superscience and/or occult elements ala Raiders of the Lost Ark, Captain America: The First Avenger, Hellboy, or the Castle Wolfenstein series of video/computer games. Perhaps believing that Reign of Winter was a combination of magic, monsters, Dieselpunk, and Nazis.
The Purity of Violence |
Takes place right at the end of WWI - probably winter of 1918-1919
Winter of 1919-20 seems more realistic to me.
I'm pretty sure the Soviets didn't capture any British tanks until well into 1919.
Also the only mention of Mustard Gas to be found in Russia before the Soviets start manufacturing their own sometime in the mid 1920s that I've seen would be from the 25,000 gas shells the British supplied to Denikin sometime after April 1919. Of course at the temperatures which the adventure takes place Mustard Gas is actually a liquid.
DaemonAngel |
Unklbuck wrote:Takes place right at the end of WWI - probably winter of 1918-1919Winter of 1919-20 seems more realistic to me.
I'm pretty sure the Soviets didn't capture any British tanks until well into 1919.
Also the only mention of Mustard Gas to be found in Russia before the Soviets start manufacturing their own sometime in the mid 1920s that I've seen would be from the 25,000 gas shells the British supplied to Denikin sometime after April 1919. Of course at the temperatures which the adventure takes place Mustard Gas is actually a liquid.
The book states 1918.
Some examples of the British tank arrived in Russia when the Allies attempted to intervene in Russia's civil war in order to try and keep the Russians in WW I, having landed in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions in mid-1918. Didn't work obviously. Anyway, that may have been the source of Rasputin's tanks
The Purity of Violence |
DaemonAngel, I agree that the adventure dates itself to late 1918 and that the Soviets eventually captured and got into some kind of running order 59 (or so) Mk Vs, but they didn't do so until 1919-1920. While British forces arrived in Arkhangelsk in mid-1918 tanks weren't sent until August 1919. They also sent tanks to Estonia and to supply Denikin, but again these were all in 1919. I know the French landed some RT-17s at Vladivostok in 1920 but haven't seen any references to British tanks there. Anything you know would be welcome.
That being said
Isn't stating that the adventure occurs during the Russian Civil War sufficient considering the alternate history elements?
says it better than I did, or could.
I wonder what effect a permanent rift/wormhole between Earth and Golarion would have on Earths history?
Well I suppose it would depend on where and how accessable each side of the wormhole was/is but I can't see how Earth wouldn't be severely altered, consisting how just about every natural law would change, gods could prove they exist, alignment would be a real thing, high CR creatures could pretty much romp around at will and a whole bunch of other stuff that makes my head hurt.
My two cents for a light horseman in Golarion would be to do a John Carter - he falls asleep under the stars somewhere in Palestine and wakes up in a slightly different desert, though with his equipment (and a spare horse with a couple of thousands rounds of .303) instead of buck naked.
Or have a light horse troop find a stargate.
Brandon Hodge Contributor |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey gang!
PoV, my research for the book indicated what DaemonAngel already stated--that some Mark Vs made landfall in 1918, and thus were fair game for inclusion. Back when the adventure debuted, I was cocked-and-loaded to tackle these detailed specifics in the event I got entangled in any similar historical questions/debates (like my previous one where I was called out for the Western-like architecture of the Orthodox cathedral, and submitted the exact Russian church, in-the-same-region, on which the RMD cathedral was based to show I *did* know exactly what I was doing) but, unfortunately, we've added a toddler to the family since the adventure's debut, and half a dozen backup drives, and I'll be hard-pressed to dig up those references and notes. But they are around here somewhere if you want to hear what historical sources I was working from for the included elements. It just might take me some time to find and post.
Getting those historical facts straight was very important to me in the writing of this adventure, and I didn't leave many holes in the boat, as it were. I didn't want any potential inaccuracies to be a distraction to WWI history buffs who might read or play in the adventure, and was very, very careful with my research and inclusions of stuff like this, even as contradictory as some primary source material can be.
DaemonAngel |
DaemonAngel, I agree that the adventure dates itself to late 1918 and that the Soviets eventually captured and got into some kind of running order 59 (or so) Mk Vs, but they didn't do so until 1919-1920. While British forces arrived in Arkhangelsk in mid-1918 tanks weren't sent until August 1919. They also sent tanks to Estonia and to supply Denikin, but again these were all in 1919. I know the French landed some RT-17s at Vladivostok in 1920 but haven't seen any references to British tanks there. Anything you know would be welcome.
That being said
TritonOne wrote:Isn't stating that the adventure occurs during the Russian Civil War sufficient considering the alternate history elements?says it better than I did, or could.
The 8th Dwarf wrote:I wonder what effect a permanent rift/wormhole between Earth and Golarion would have on Earths history?Well I suppose it would depend on where and how accessable each side of the wormhole was/is but I can't see how Earth wouldn't be severely altered, consisting how just about every natural law would change, gods could prove they exist, alignment would be a real thing, high CR creatures could pretty much romp around at will and a whole bunch of other stuff that makes my head hurt.
My two cents for a light horseman in Golarion would be to do a John Carter - he falls asleep under the stars somewhere in Palestine and wakes up in a slightly different desert, though with his equipment (and a spare horse with a couple of thousands rounds of .303) instead of buck naked.
Or have a light horse troop find a stargate.
Theory II: Rasputin heard about these new armored "landships" and had some agents acquire and smuggle a few examples into Russia for his own use ahead of everyone else.
Warning: Use of a stargate system may attract the attention of aliens with an Egyptian god complexe.
TritonOne |
Since Siberia constitutes 77% of the land mass of the Russian Federation, can you please give us a clue of the general location of the Akuvskaya Monastery prison? Does the adventure occur in territory controlled by the Provisional All-Russian Government (PA-RG) under Alexander Kolchak? I presume that Rasputin's soldiers are members of the White Army/White Guard? Are they wearing Imperial Russian Army uniforms?
Since the Romanov family was executed in Yekaterinburg on 17 July 1918, I presume that the adventure takes place in the beginning of Winter-- December 1918?
Any historical tidbits you are willing to share would be greatly appreciated, Brandon.
Ra, Alien Overlord |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Purity of Violence wrote:DaemonAngel, I agree that the adventure dates itself to late 1918 and that the Soviets eventually captured and got into some kind of running order 59 (or so) Mk Vs, but they didn't do so until 1919-1920. While British forces arrived in Arkhangelsk in mid-1918 tanks weren't sent until August 1919. They also sent tanks to Estonia and to supply Denikin, but again these were all in 1919. I know the French landed some RT-17s at Vladivostok in 1920 but haven't seen any references to British tanks there. Anything you know would be welcome.
That being said
TritonOne wrote:Isn't stating that the adventure occurs during the Russian Civil War sufficient considering the alternate history elements?says it better than I did, or could.
The 8th Dwarf wrote:I wonder what effect a permanent rift/wormhole between Earth and Golarion would have on Earths history?Well I suppose it would depend on where and how accessable each side of the wormhole was/is but I can't see how Earth wouldn't be severely altered, consisting how just about every natural law would change, gods could prove they exist, alignment would be a real thing, high CR creatures could pretty much romp around at will and a whole bunch of other stuff that makes my head hurt.
My two cents for a light horseman in Golarion would be to do a John Carter - he falls asleep under the stars somewhere in Palestine and wakes up in a slightly different desert, though with his equipment (and a spare horse with a couple of thousands rounds of .303) instead of buck naked.
Or have a light horse troop find a stargate.
Theory II: Rasputin heard about these new armored "landships" and had some agents acquire and smuggle a few examples into Russia for his own use ahead of everyone else.
Warning: Use of a stargate system may attract the attention of aliens with an Egyptian god complexe.
You called?
TritonOne |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Getting those historical facts straight was very important to me in the writing of this adventure, and I didn't leave many holes in the boat, as it were. I didn't want any potential inaccuracies to be a distraction to WWI history buffs who might read or play in the adventure, and was very, very careful with my research and inclusions of stuff like this, even as contradictory as some primary source material can be.
Thank you for being so thorough in your historical research of the period.
The Purity of Violence |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Brandon,
Thanks for taking the trouble for replying on what is now a fairly old subject. Firstly let me say that I share with many the belief that Rasputin Must Die! is one of the best adventures every written and that your detailed research consistently shows through. I remember your reply on the Orthodox Cathedral and how utterly convincing your argument was.
While I certainly consider myself a First World War buff I'm surely not a Eastern Front expert, so RmD actually prompted (a lot) more reading from me.
Fair enough that a lot of time has passed and your notes are buried. Again thanks for chipping in!
Brandon Hodge Contributor |
That's incredibly kind of you, PoV--thank you so much for that! I had just hoped to produce something that didn't crash-and-burn in a fireball of rejection, and I am proud to have the results so well-received. Thank you again.
I will try my damnest to dig up those notes and crack open my old laptop to check out my relevant Firefox bookmarks folder for your and TritonOne's information requests--I seem to recall that I actually had the location of Akuvskaya pinned on a google map. I literally spent days going over satellite images of ruined villages and cathedrals looking for just the right spot--I imagined a place where some globe-trotting Paizo fan could actually stand there, say "well, this is where my character killed Rasputin...for the second time" and spy a rusty sword hilt from a far-distant world sticking out of the snow. =-) I seem to recall the location was more Western/mid Siberia than far Eastern--I didn't want to yetis' trek from the Urals to be to unbelievably long. And while we didn't want to fall too far down the rabbit hole of Russian politics, the prisoners were indeed White Army soldiers, and I believe that artist captured the uniforms Rob intended.
Bobson |
I will try my damnest to dig up those notes and crack open my old laptop to check out my relevant Firefox bookmarks folder for your and TritonOne's information requests--I seem to recall that I actually had the location of Akuvskaya pinned on a google map. I literally spent days going over satellite images of ruined villages and cathedrals looking for just the right spot--I imagined a place where some globe-trotting Paizo fan could actually stand there, say "well, this is where my character killed Rasputin...for the second time" and spy a rusty sword hilt from a far-distant world sticking out of the snow. =-) I seem to recall the location was more Western/mid Siberia than far Eastern--I didn't want to yetis' trek from the Urals to be to unbelievably long. And while we didn't want to fall too far down the rabbit hole of Russian politics, the prisoners were indeed White Army soldiers, and I believe that artist captured the uniforms Rob intended.
It may or may not help, but here is a post you made on the subject last year:
Akuvskaya Monastery is based on this ruined church in Penza Oblast, Russia. I fell in love with it in my research, particularly how the fledgling onion-domed belltowers flanked the larger central dome, which gave perfect resting places for snipers. And it had a transept that, while not necessarily typical for Orthodox churches, gave me the room I needed for an extra couple of encounters. I also took inspiration from the abandoned churches of Ryazan Oblast, which proved to be great specimens to base a composite on, and I stole a little from this ruin, with a great cruciform architecture (though it lacked the onion-domes I wanted), this old beauty which is very similar in style to the Penza church, and this currently-domeless cruciform-style monastery in Voronezh Oblast.