Bull Rush Warpriest?


Advice

Grand Lodge

I was wondering if there was a way to create a viable Bull Rush focused Warpriest.

How would one go about it?

Grand Lodge

Would Gorum be the best choice, for Spiked Destroyer, or Rovagug for Merciless Rush?

Shadow Lodge

Bull Rush? I'd get Shield Slam ASAP, since otherwise you don't get the Full BAB since Bull Rush isn't made with a "weapon". Or some similar ability.

Grand Lodge

So, basically, if you want focus on Bull Rush, as a Warpriest, you need to wait for Shield Slam, and focus on shield bashing first?

Grand Lodge

This would be for a campaign with mostly humanoid enemies, if that helps.


Merciless rush line looks better to me.

Grand Lodge

What is the best race choices?


One of my favorite characters in recent memory is a Cleric dipping wild shape Druid. And I inevitably found myself assessing the merits of Bull Rush v. Overrun. Ultimately I felt personally a higher potential combat return on Overrun and Improved Overrun enroute to Greater Overrun to what Bull Rush had to offer.

What tilted the decision for me personally was the raw potential of Greater Overrun and the increased probability of prone enemies triggering a plethora of AOO's during the resolution of my maneuver. Obviously, you want Combat Reflexes development in there at some point in such a case and if I were selecting Gr. Overrun for a build I would likely pair it with Spiked Destroyer over Merciless Rush if those are my only two choices.

That said. Gr. Bull Rush can still provoke during resolution. But Gr. Overrun attaches prone and that for me is the deciding factor.

Grand Lodge

You know, I have never seen any PC, ever, use overrun.


Quote:
You know, I have never seen any PC, ever, use overrun.

Neither had my DM. I dare say he's become intimate with it these days. ;)

To "attempt" to offer suggestions about race, if I'm not getting too strange and off the beaten path my money is Human, or Half-orc. If I'm going to go what I'll call a trample-esque build bigger is going to inevitably be better (read also, what benefits greatest from say Enlarge type magics). Human obviously gets you your feat love so to speak, but I really do have a love affair with Orcish Ferocity which I'm not going to lie, is a Godsend when you spend a good bit of time in the literal thick of it.

Grand Lodge

Well, let's assume all core races, plus all heritages of Aasimar, and Tiefling.

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, let's assume all core races, plus all heritages of Aasimar, and Tiefling.

human would give the best return, nothing any other race offers would help you other then dwarf for the saves and con/wis bump

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
This would be for a campaign with mostly humanoid enemies, if that helps.

Ah, in that case, Shield Slam is still nice but not as necessary. Humanoids have a lower CMD, so you don't need full BAB as much. Dwarf is a nice Bull Rush race, since they have the racial trait for +2, and the Helmet weapon thing for another +2.

Grand Lodge

Would not the penalty to charisma hurt the Warpriest, for Fervor, Channel, etc?


Ok, here's what you do for Warpriest: Half-Orc of Gorum. Bull Rush: You'll need Improved, Greater, Rhino Charge, and possibly quick depending on how often you want to do it. Quick is nice. Spiked Destroyer is also awesomesauce. From here, you take traits and alternate racial traits.

Specifically, Linebreaker and Cragborn. On the charge, you will from these two get a +20 to your speed. Add boots of striding and springing, and now suddenly in full plate your charge is 50 feet. Enjoy Rhino Charge and using a standard action for moving 50 feet and doing a bull rush after you've done something but before your next turn. Thin the herd baby!


3 people marked this as a favorite.

So this was really interesting to me, so I started messing around a little in Hero Lab and playing with this and that. Without asking a bunch of questions about character concept, I just built it in a way that I think would be pretty effective for thinning out piles of mooks employing horde tatics.

Human (Shoanti) Shoanti Shaman Archetype, Cleric of Kostchtchie – I chose Kostchtchie just to get away from the Gorum/Rov love that tends to be default ALL I think is critical in a build of this type is access to the War Domain for Weapon Master at 8th:

Quote:
Weapon Master (Su): At 8th level, as a swift action, you gain the use of one combat feat for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive and you can change the feat chosen each time you use this ability. You must meet the prerequisites to use this feat.

I probably consider heavily Ferocity as my second domain but that’s certainly not gospel. In the case of this mock up I chose Demon because Fury of the Abyss synergizes nicely with what I’m trying to do:

Quote:
Fury of the Abyss (Su): As a swift action, you can give yourself an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) on melee attacks, melee damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks. This bonus lasts for 1 round. During this round, you take a –2 penalty to AC. You can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Feat selection at 1st level is simply Combat reflexes (which you will need deeper into the build to optimize AoO’s off of your Bullrushing AND Overrunning (yes, I am suggesting that you work BOTH feat chains to provide a crazy amount of situational utility). I save my bonus feat selection until 2nd when I BAB at +1 for Power Attack, opening myself up to my Combat Manuever chains I’m going to live and breathe off of. Alternatively, you could take Totem Spirit – Shriikirri-Quah (Hawk Clan) with full intention of retrain. I need Power Attack as soon as I possibly can after all.

My stats are a balancing act. STR is your primary of course (needing thru some measure of base or buff at least 25 strength to open up Awesome Blow as you develop). CON was my choice over DEX because Im building to surround myself with foes off of charge maneuvers and ultimately maximize my useage of Cleave, Gr. Cleave, and Cleaving Finish once I’m in position. Dex requires at least 13 for Combat Reflexes but I intend to buff that thru Cat’s grace as I level to increase my available AoO cap. Int 10 just to preserve my already horrid skill point progression. Wisdom a minimum of 12 with stat bumps helping to improve that later on for spell access. CHA is my dump. I can offset that with a Headband or buff later if I want, but I’m a chain reaction Warpriest I’m not a channel/smite Priest.

I arm myself with a Falchion and buckler. I rely heavily on crits pushing me through enemies I engage off of charges. And I keen it at my first opportunity through any number of means/enchants. As soon as I meet the requirements I’m attaching Vital Strike.

At 2nd level I dip Fighter (Ultimately I want no more than 3 lvls in this dip, but I like Armor Training at Fighter 3rd because mobility is going to be a main-stay for me throughout my career. I’ll equip with an agile mithril breastplate asap and with Magic Vestment never think about it again).

As I progress I ENSURE I work up to Imp. Bullrush, Imp. Overrun, and Cleave. I can after 8th level when it’s my time to shine utilize my Weapon Master Domain power to pick at will from most any combat feat my situation requires of me. I’ll qualify for Cleaving Finish, Gr. Bullrush, Gr. Overrun, Charge Through, Rhino Charge, Awesome Blow and everything in between really because of that killer War Domain Power. If I really want to put a foe away following a successful Overrun or Bullrush I’ll pop the cap on an Imp. Vital Strike and put some dice in the air.

Buff spells are my primary focus, metamagic rods of Quicken later in life give me an added angle if I haven’t had an opportunity to pre-cast.

I have a few castings or a Rod full of Grace incase I need to get out of the mess Ive put myself in quickly without provoking nasty AoO’s while I’m beat up. Boots of Striding and Springing or Longstrider if I’m in good with a Druid and Im feeling pretty capable as a Horde Sweeper.

I hope that helps as a just messing around sort of maybe for you. Oh, and one last thing - NEVER underestimate the useage of Enlarge type spells.


Ok, that's a great idea.
Stealing that now.

Grand Lodge

Huh. I wasn't expecting a Cleric build to be posted.

I have been really intrigued by the Warpriest class, and want to exercise it's potential.

Bull Rush is something that doesn't get used a lot in games I play, and wanted to see if I mix this with the Warpriest class.


Oh! I see where I got lost in that case. To be honest, I haven't bothered overmuch with the test classes. I was just talking with my DM last night about the trend Paizo seems to be taking with over-hybridization of classes. Not that there is anything wrong with it I suppose. But if I'm being honest, IMO there are enough class and feat combinations around for a creative and intelligent player to make pretty much anything they want to be able to do without muddying the waters further with what I term "built-in multiclass hybrids". Sorry blackbloodtroll!

If you want, I'm happy to try messing around a little with the Warpriest and seeing if I can make something viable for what it sounds like you're after.

Grand Lodge

Anything helps.

I am hoping to have something, viable, but doesn't need to be the best.

I can usually make my own flavor adjustments as desired.

Having a good base, and knowing my options, is what I am really seeking.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Alright. Well, as I mentioned I’m by no means a Warpriest Savant but here’s a possibility.

Half-orc Warpriest of any God that allows for Strength Blessing, and War Blessing (In this mock up I ran thru Hero Lab I just went with the orcish Blood God for flavour). Human is certainly viable for the extra feat, but I end up returning to Orc Ferocity and fall in love all over again. Considering that I will have access to 6th level spells and Heal I’m even more inclined to place emphasis on Orc Ferocity, or possibly Die Hard if you went Human.

Quote:

Strength Blessing

Strength of Will: At 10th level, as a swift action you can ignore the movement penalties from wearing medium or heavy armor (or carrying a medium or heavy load) for 1 minute. During this time, you may add your Strength bonus on your saving throws against effects that would paralyze or slow you.

Strength surge: At 1st level, as a swift action you gain an enhancement bonus equal to half your Warpriest level (minimum +1) to melee attacks, combat maneuver checks that rely on Strength, Strength based skills, and Strength checks for one round.

Quote:

War Blessing

Battle Lust: At 10th level, as a standard action you can touch an ally to grant it a thirst for battle. All of the ally’s melee attacks are treated as if they had the vicious special weapon property, but the extra damage dealt to the ally from that property is non-lethal. In addition, the ally receives a +4 insight bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits. These benefits last for 1 minute.

War Mind: At 1st level, as a standard action you can touch an ally to grant it a tactical advantage for 1 minute. Each round at the start of its turn, it can select one of the following bonuses: +10 feet to base land speed, +1 dodge bonus to AC, +1 insight bonus on attack rolls, or a +1 bonus on saving throws.

Now, admittedly this is my first examination of the Warpriest in any great detail. I would likely ask my DM what constitutes an “ally”. If he’s feeling benevolent enough to broaden that designation to include me, I’d probably clap and dance a little. Knowing my DM as I do, I wouldn’t hold my breath so War is certainly interchangeable as you like. Strength Blessing is a must IMHO.

Stat wise, I do need to consider fervor/smite options. So I placed my high stat emphasis on CHA in this build. STR I don’t feel anything less than 16 is acceptable for a CMB rooted character concept, and I’ll have a ton of options through Enlarge effects and buffs to easily push me into somewhere around 27 strength by endgame, providing that I place at least one stat bump (probably my first) into this ability score, DEX becomes of importance to me almost exclusively for the Initiative modifiers (as I’m going to want full plate armor) and I’m going to want to ready Rhino Charge as an lead-in options at endgame, as well as ensure that I get into my foes before they can scatter and reduce my overall Cleave, Cleaving Finish effectiveness. WIS, I probably don’t need higher than 12, IF I dedicate what remain of my stat bumps exclusively into that stat. CON I can almost call a dump, this build has a relatively good AC, and with Heals as 6th level spells I’m not too concerned about taking a great deal of damage, particularly if I’m reading Sacred Armor correctly and can pile on a +4 enhancement bonus that expressly stacks with ANY existing armor bonuses that I already have. INT is my dump. (in my mock up it was 8)

Feat developmentally, I believe there is still merit to pursuing both the Bullrush AND Overrun feat chains all the way to Greater for wide utility on the battlefield. It just flat allows me to again ask what it is I want to be able to do, and as I touched on in the cleric version of this same kind of concept, I believe that when it comes to formation breaking, you want options.

I still take Bullrush and Overrun all the way to Greater, I also take Charge Through, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Imp. Vital Strike, and Bull Rush Strike. Bonus Feat selection I chose was Power Attack, Channel Smite, Imp. Initiative, Imp. Overrun, Rhino Charge (I might call Imp. Cleaving Finish interchangable here), and Awesome Blow (which you easily qualify for when Enlarged in some way, and either Raging or buffed.

1st level feat selection remains Combat Reflexes, and unchanged for me. With the potential for massive AoO trigger off of your later Gr. Bullrush and Gr. Overrun maneuvers, you really want to do what you can to take advantage of those sporadic AoO pings.

At 2nd level it gets a little taste sensitive. I dipped two levels of Barbarian into this mock up, and here’s expressly why: I get Rage, but more importantly, I get the only Rage power that I care about – Overbearing Advance:

Quote:

Overbearing Advance (Ex)

Benefit: While raging, the barbarian inflicts damage equal to her Strength bonus whenever she succeeds at an overrun combat maneuver.

I don’t weep overmuch for losing Fast Movement, I’m going to be charging a lot at double movement and Boots of Striding and Springing or Longstrider are still no brainers. Now you don’t have to dip at all, and you would gain one additional bonus feat if you placed those two levels towards Warpriest you could possibly use for Imp. Cleaving Finish or Extra Channel or whatever feels right.

My arms and armor changes slightly in that I go for full plate, if I’m rich I’m going to likely consider Unrighteous/Righteous depending on my Diety, and maybe even mithral in addition to enhancement bonuses I’m going to receive in the form of Magic Vestment and Sacred Armor.

I still believe that you have to look at Falchion and buckler for a horde sweeper like this. With my combat options around fervor/smite I’m going to keen my falchion and grayflame is also appealing to me with fervor 13 times/day in this build.

Spell selection and supplemental magics don’t really change an awful lot from the Cleric to Warpriest in my estimation. I’m still buffing, I’m still using Metamagic Rods of Quicken against my buffs if I can’t pre-cast et al.

Grand Lodge

You know, with the Sacred Weapon damage and BAB, it seems that Disarm, Sunder, or Trip, would work better, but I hoped this would be doable.

Those are some good considerations though.


You know, you don't really need a high dex. Take Noble Scion at first level to give you a high charisma.
Will you be using the Channel Smite in addition to this sort of stuff?
There's a ton of different ways you can go with this as a half-orc.

Here are some traits and feats I can think of:
Traits:
Anatomist (+1 Critical Focus trait bonus)
Reactionary (+2 Initiative)
Strong Arm, Supple Wrist (move 10 feet and throw, you get ten feet more in range. It's important if you want to throw)
Tactician (+1 initiative, once per day +2 attack roll AOO)
Veteran of Battle (+1 Initiative and modified Quick Draw in surprise round)
Orc Impaler
Linebreaker (+10 to base speed when charging)
Narrows Survivor
Fate's Favored

Alternate Racial Traits
Crag-Kin (replace weapon familiarity and Orc Ferocity)
Shaman's Apprentice (Endurance bonus feat, replaces intimidating. You'll want this)

Feats (in no particular order)
You'll want a weapon with the Impact quality to aid with bull rushing and overrun. You'll probably go with Bull Rush, so my suggestion is, for the most part, use a great sword or another two handed weapon like a falchion maybe. Now, you don't need impact, but it helps.
Weapon Focus (Falchion. This is a first level freebee feat, so choose whatever you want. I like Falchion and a few others, but go whatever)
Fey Foundling or Noble Scion (depends on dex vs charisma. If dex preferred go Fey Foundling)
Die Hard (this will mitigate the loss of Ferocity and open up a ton of possibilities for you)
Vital Strike Chain (go Vital and Improved. Greater is too much of an investment. Surprisingly useful for your character because of Enlarge Person and other size related spells as well as weapon adjustments)
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Improved Bull Rush
Greater Bull Rush
Rhino Charge
Quick bull Rush
To The Last or a Deathless Feat or two or something similar
Death Or Glory (this is a tough sell, but it's made a little easier with things like To The Last, Diehard, Deathless, and Fey Foundling because of how easily you could end up toast from a return blow)
Quicken Spell (might need it, might not)
Quick Draw (See bounding hammer)
Bounding Hammer (If you choose a weapon focus feat for Light Hammer, this can come in real handy)
Spiked Destroyer (if you can go weapon focus, armor spikes, this can get friggin nuts! Dealing HOW MUCH for armor spikes whenever you bull rush? HOW MUCH? Oh yeah!)
Eldritch Heritage? Could be worth it. I'd go Orc tho, not necessarily because of the strength, but because of the Power of Giants. That ability is amazing. And couple it with bull rush? Your guy just got a bit more stompy. All proppa an' Orky.

Edit: Obviously I like criticals, but you shouldn't need to focus on them. You could also go if you wanted to with a warhammer for flavor. Give it a couple of abilities: throwing, returning, distance, shocking, thundering. Could be an interesting option if you go Aasimar. Could always claim that you were descended from the Valkyrie.

Grand Lodge

Not too bad.

Using Sacred Weapon, with Armor Spikes, and Spiked Destroyer seems neat.


The Warpriest is a damn versatile class when it comes down to it.

Grand Lodge

I really do like the class.


I've decided that I won't go Channel Smite with the class as a Gorumite. Too much of a feat tax.
Half-Orc tho, I choose Chain Fighter as a weapon familiarity feat and take as an option weapon focus Spiked Chain. Nice weapon option. No reach, but it's still Ok. Overall, I've found that bounding hammer and using light hammer with weapon focus is awesome, definitely great for ranged.


Quote:
You know, you don't really need a high dex.

The only emphasis I place on DEX at all in a build of this flavor is strictly for initiative adjustments. As a formation breaker, I feel like you want to be proactive rather than reactive. Especially so when you consider that once you get into the midst of your enemies and dropping foes left right and center that there is going to be some form of reactionary counter-effort on the part of your foes.

Securing first actions means that you can ready, or push the issue as opposed to trying to work your best attack sequences behind what your foes might do to thwart them. (read also: setting to receive your charges)

That said, it's a really interesting concept.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Bull Rush Warpriest? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.