Advice on running a memorable evil campaign


Advice

Lantern Lodge

Long story short I have 7 PCs. They're all inmates at a prison, and most of them are decidedly evil. To get them to work together I've made sure the players understand there will be 0% pvp or in-game harassment allowed. They are allowed to be chaotic evil or neutral evil.

To encourage them to work together, they are working under the close guidance of an imprisoned warlord, an evil monk type (optimized Qinggong/Four Winds. They have a common goal to work together and a common adherence to the warlord. I also asked the players to put in their backstory that they have ties to each other.

What can I do to ensure that this evil campaign is successful and memorable for the players?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Throw out all of your listed forced restrictions and only play an evil campaign with players you know are mature enough to realize that evil =/= Killy McMurderfest.

Let the players form their own reasons and motivations for working together... evil warlord? Fear is a perfectly legitimate motivator, they are not the heroes and should be treated differently... and allow them to have their own sinister plots, plans and ambitions.

Don't force the players to be a "typical good natured adventuring group of heroes and old brothers in arms", who just happen to be "evil". Evil has it's own motivations, just like good. Let them develop and discover them.

Most importantly, have a very good story that has a reason for them to strive for a common goal, while not forcing them to play "evil lite". Make sure the story has ample room for them to do their dastardly deeds and does not slip into the far too common, "lesser evil" or "evil for the greater good" concept that many supposedly evil campaigns become. Finally, make sure that the story allows for the fact that evil doesn't mean constant destructive sociopath, and allow for character growth beyond just killing things... evil can love, have families, run kingdoms, have lives, and the more you can make the evil party seem like "real" people, albeit vile ones, the more creepy and villainous their acts become.

Also, expect one or more of the group to strive to become a leader, moreso than a good aligned group, and to be more dominant and even tyrannical. It comes with the territory and evil is far more likely to want to dominate those "weaker" than they or use them to gain even greater power. Also, expect a lot of selfishness.

Liberty's Edge

Fomsie wrote:
Throw out all of your listed forced restrictions and only play an evil campaign with players you know are mature enough to realize that evil =/= Killy McMurderfest.

This is good advice. If the players don't buy into the dynamic this simply won't work, regardless of what restrictions you place on them.

Fomsie wrote:
Let the players form their own reasons and motivations for working together... evil warlord? Fear is a perfectly legitimate motivator, they are not the heroes and should be treated differently... and allow them to have their own sinister plots, plans and ambitions.

Having their own schemes does seem likely, yeah. I'm not sure leaving it entirely open on how they get together is a good idea though. Maybe have a brainstorming session with the whole group pre-game asking "Okay, so why are you guys working together?" would be a good idea, with you throwing in your own thoughts for those players who haven't come up with any.

I'd personally skip the Warlord unless they're either a PC or the PCs have requested them. PCs don't like being forced into service, and so that's probably not gonna end well.

Fomsie wrote:
Don't force the players to be a "typical good natured adventuring group of heroes and old brothers in arms", who just happen to be "evil". Evil has it's own motivations, just like good. Let them develop and discover them.

This is also good advice.

Fomsie wrote:
Most importantly, have a very good story that has a reason for them to strive for a common goal, while not forcing them to play "evil lite". Make sure the story has ample room for them to do their dastardly deeds and does not slip into the far too common, "lesser evil" or "evil for the greater good" concept that many supposedly evil campaigns become.

This, too, is excellent advice. If they want to be Evil, let them.

Fomsie wrote:
Finally, make sure that the story allows for the fact that evil doesn't mean constant destructive sociopath, and allow for character growth beyond just killing things... evil can love, have families, run kingdoms, have lives, and the more you can make the evil party seem like "real" people, albeit vile ones, the more creepy and villainous their acts become.

And this.

Fomsie wrote:
Also, expect one or more of the group to strive to become a leader, moreso than a good aligned group, and to be more dominant and even tyrannical. It comes with the territory and evil is far more likely to want to dominate those "weaker" than they or use them to gain even greater power. Also, expect a lot of selfishness.

This part I disagree with to some degree. It's certainly possible for a tyrant to emerge or try to, and for characters to be selfish, but the most united and cooperative group of PCs I've ever seen was in an Evil game. Hell, we didn't even have individual money, just sharing things out as necessary (this let us get the Druid wild Armor several levels early, which was immensely useful to the party as a whole, actually). My LE Drow Bard was indisputably in charge, but he was a great boss by just about any definition (the CE evil characters loved him), as well as being charming and affable.

We wound up committing genocide and founding an empire. Good times.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I would definitely give them a goal and/or make sure they have a goal of their own. Villains work best when they have an evil scheme after all. Tell them that they can conquer the world, take over a country, become immortal/gods, or any other villainous scheme.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that hate to be forced into a group. Maybe make them a secret society of villains led by an agreed-upon PC or NPC and structure the campaign around their efforts to take over the world or whatever. I am assuming this isn't a dungeon crawl campaign where the party is a bunch of murderhobos, though murderhobos tend to be pretty evil themselves.

The biggest draw of an evil campaign to me is the chance to play the cool villain. The cool, confident leader-type Hans Gruber, the engine of destruction like the Juggernaut, the subtle schemer like Loki, the psychologically destoryer like Hannibal Lecter, or any other classic villain type. Let them be that villain and fight against the hero. Let them have all the best outfits. Let them be one step ahead of the heroes. Let them have villainous rivals that aren't quite as cool but just as vicious and intelligent. Tabletop RPGs are cooperative stories. They want to be the villain? Then it's your job to make them feel like the biggest, baddest, smartest, sexiest villains in the world.


The best evil game I've ever been in was a slippery slope game. Everything we were presented with to begin with seemed like the best option out of crappy options but as the world expanded around us and the impact of those early choices became clear we were uncountably the BBEGs of the setting, ruling with an iron fist and deciding what was best for everyone based only on our limited view of the world. We weren't told up front we were going to be evil and our DM never flat out said we were evil until the end. The enemies we fought were played brilliantly, the zealots that kept ambushing us trying to take the artifact we were trying to put into play were actually bands of heroes. The grateful mayor we helped was actually a petty tyrant, the artifact we were trying to put into play was supposed to make a utopia for man by crushing free will and enforcing pure order and rule by the person that ultimately activated it. Was a lot of fun and way more interesting then the usual "we're evil let's burn everything" game that most people play. Evil people don't think they're evil, they think they're making the right decisions and righting wrongs, they're only evil in relation to the viewer.


One thing you should definately make sure your players keep in mind is that even though in character they are being evil, selfish poop heads, that out of character they are ALL still having fun. Evil campaigns present more temptation for players to actually anger, hurt, or annoy the players out of game, so you should keep an eye out to make sure everyone is still comfortable with what's going on. If they are, the backstabbing, lieing and cheating each other can be hilarious, but if they're NOT you need to nip it in the bud real quick.


My Serpents Skull campaign turned evil. It was a blast.

The party composition is

LE Samsaran Witch
NE Sylph Druid
CN Orc Fighter
CN Gnome Alchemist
LE Vishkanya Rogue
TN Human Ranger
TN Tiefling Magus

People who have left
NG Cleric of Dalenydra
LN Monk of the 4 Winds

There has been some tense moments but with the goodies out they are basically evil. Im having a blast.


I'm Working on a CE AP. Kingdom building based as well

Evil needs a long term goal
Try not be to obstructive / add to many rules
Try have an npc they all love/fear at first. So they all serve a demoness or something...in time they can dispense with her
Discuss before what evil you are comfortable with

Have fun

Liberty's Edge

thenovalord wrote:


Discuss before what evil you are comfortable with

This is very, very important.

While many, if not most, players when given license to play "evil" tend to play Chaotic Stupid, Killy McMurder types, doing over the top destructive comic book villain rampages, some will actually plumb some truly vile depths with their characters. And much how some people are uncomfortable with certain types of movies, some will be uncomfortable playing in or around certain situations... especially if major taboos are brought into play. Be very mindful of what your players out of character limits are in this regard, because evil campaigns can really push boundaries in many cases.

Liberty's Edge

Fomsie wrote:
thenovalord wrote:


Discuss before what evil you are comfortable with

This is very, very important.

While many, if not most, players when given license to play "evil" tend to play Chaotic Stupid, Killy McMurder types, doing over the top destructive comic book villain rampages, some will actually plumb some truly vile depths with their characters. And much how some people are uncomfortable with certain types of movies, some will be uncomfortable playing in or around certain situations... especially if major taboos are brought into play. Be very mindful of what your players out of character limits are in this regard, because evil campaigns can really push boundaries in many cases.

Yeah. This is very good advice. The Evil campaign I played in everyone was cool with the stuff that occurred...but it got really horrific way quicker than I, for one, expected. And the person who instigated most of the real horrible stuff, while he wouldn't do so if there was an explicit prohibition, almost certainly would've still started doing stuff without one regardless of how okay with it we were as a group. Some people might've been somewhat traumatized.


I'm running my first evil game soon, but its more "Evil PCs are allowed" rather than "Evil campaign".

its the "save the multiverse" sort of game.
In a nutshell, proteans introduced artifacts of great power to the world, so that humans will kill each other for them.
Losing followers weakens the deities of the pantheon, whom protect earth from total destruction.


Proper evil doesn't slaughter everything

Take prisoners and taunt good divine npcs with difficult moral decisions


the best way to start one is: take one Good Aligned and think about the goodies here are "the enemies" and the evils are "the heroes/PCs"...
evil monsters will became allies, and force of good (angels ecc) will become "the enemies monsters"...

you may go in "evil's role" and ask yourself:

-Why they do what they do? Maybe they care for their families?

-Look at goodies not like the beautiful and merciful angels, but as they cover their cruelty with "Is the God-Desire", "I'm Law-Face"

sorry if is a confused writing... what i want to say is: change your POV

For making an example: Darth Fener.. he was Evil, but why? When he was a child he had some problems...if you look his POV, he's not so much wrong in doing what he do..


I played in a long-term evil campaign where we were all in service to a demon lord (some more than others). The mid-levels were brimming with PCs killing other PCs. It was only after a near TPK at the hands of a powerful vampire that we rediscovered teamwork and in high levels focussed our cruelness mostly on others (such as celestials), and stopped killing each other. (The survivors were appointed new party members by the high priestess and went back to kill not only the powerful vampire, but the vampire forms of our previous characters.)


The good thing about evil pc's is that everything is a potential enemy, challenge, etc. Heck they can even ally with anything, well for a bit!.


@Ciaran: this because you're all playing Chaotic (S*upid) Evil?

Evils can team up... they probably will do that...as a DM you can give a strong motive for that (i suggest not the demon lord... seems too "deja-vu") or you can tell your players to made up background-bonded...


We weren't all the same alignment, but basically yes. Or some of us at least (I had 0 PvP kills). It doesn't take the entire group to screw things up. The point of my post was that we learned from our mistake and started to work together (however, there was some betrayal in final battle against Orcus. Seemed appropriate though.).


@Ciaran: yes i was not trying to offend you.. i was making a consideration XD!

that's cool if you learn how to team up (i'm wondering my party will do the same..)


There is very good essay on the pitfalls and problems of running an evil campaign in the first chapter of "Way of the Wicked".

Even if you're planning an entirely homebrew campaign, you should think about picking up the PDF of that just for the essay.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Its all good

I suppose what it really boils down to for me is role-playing a character instead of an class/race/alignment - remembering to retain the "human" element in the imaginary beings we are pretending to be. Whether CE or LG, the character have reasons for being the way they are. They have values (yes there are evil values too) and weaknesses and ambitions. They should weight risks and rewards. At least pretend that there is a purpose to killing enemies aside from initiative being rolled.


I remember toying around with a concept for an all evil campaign a while ago. It went something like this...

There's a prison break in a paladin-run massive (as in, the whole adventure takes place there so it's gotta be at least full dungeon sized) penitentiary. All of the PCs are, if not cellmates, at least contained in the same wing. If the GM is worried about infighting (with one of the aspects of the adventure a significant possibility if your players are a bit cutthroat), all of them are under the effects of a spell cast by an epic level wizard that prevents them from harming the paladins and others running the place and each other; for some reason (I haven't determined it yet) the spell has fizzled out regarding the paladins but not each other, and if someone tries to engage in combat with the other they have to deal with no-save nauseated.

In this case, I, as the GM, would pre-make all of the PCs and have the players pick them before they start in earnest, with a character sheet and a one to two page bio describing their history. The players would read everything and pick characters they like out of it; there'd be PCs like the classic goblin alchemist, a hobgoblin monk, and other fun stuff. I'd try to make as many "monstrous" PCs as possible so they can take advantage of the opportunity.

The goal of the adventure would be to escape, obviously. There'd probably end up being a necessary boss fight to unlock the gates so everyone could leave or something along those lines, but again I haven't figured that bit out yet. The wrench in the plan would be this: every PC has something they're trying to get that's being held in the dungeon.

At the end of character selection, which would be a different day then the first day of adventuring, each player would get a sealed note depending on their character. The note would describe an extremely important set of items to that character; the goblin alchemist, for example, needs to obtain his research notes that are held in the prison because they represent years of his life and are very important to him. The note would describe its general location in the prison and why they would avoid telling the others what they're looking for (the alchemist would avoid talking about it because of the goblin's writing superstition). It would also have a powerful, class-important item for player encouragement. The players wouldn't be encouraged to prioritize the item over survival, but it would be fun as each player tries to subtly (or not) steer the adventure towards almost mutually exclusive locations to get their stuff.

Just a fun idea I had. Hope I get to run it some day.


bob_the_monster wrote:

Long story short I have 7 PCs. They're all inmates at a prison, and most of them are decidedly evil. To get them to work together I've made sure the players understand there will be 0% pvp or in-game harassment allowed. They are allowed to be chaotic evil or neutral evil.

To encourage them to work together, they are working under the close guidance of an imprisoned warlord, an evil monk type (optimized Qinggong/Four Winds. They have a common goal to work together and a common adherence to the warlord. I also asked the players to put in their backstory that they have ties to each other.

What can I do to ensure that this evil campaign is successful and memorable for the players?

First off, I'd drop the concept that they're not allowed to kill each other off. It's something that evil characters might do. However, I would definitely give them reasons to not to kill each other off - like needing each other and their talents to survive. Make evil (or neutral) allies scarce. Let them end up being hunted by the forces of good. They can't end up going on murderhobo rampages if every time they do so, they attract the kind of attention that they need to avoid in order to accomplish their goals. Being fugitives from some kind of good authority (or authorities) encourages them to be a lot more careful about where and when they commit their evil acts (which usually leads to more three-dimensional characters anyway).

Giving them motivations to be evil is also key. Maybe your sorceress delights in destroying everything in her path, but she really wants to kill the (good) ranger that's pursuing your party with a small army of his own, and she won't ever be able to get close enough to him to strike the killing blow if she does something stupid and ends up dead, and if she doesn't bide her time and either wait for the right moment to strike or pick off his forces bit by bit (with her villainous allies, of course) until there's no one left that the ranger can rely upon for help. She wants him dead because he lead a raid upon her people and murdered her (evil) husband and her child, leaving her for dead.

Of course, the group has to have a goal beyond just simple survival. Perhaps they end up seeking out some sort of relic that will destroy an entire nation, causing so much destruction that the citizens will have more than enough to do in putting their lives back together to bother hunting evil creatures for a long, long time. Maybe they're seeking to join the Dark Lord and become powerful enough to do in those that have wronged them, guaranteeing that no one will ever be able to take advantage of them again. Perhaps they wish to rule over a dark kingdom of their own. I'm sure you and your players can come up with something suitable.

I've used all of this to wonderful effect in a homebrewed villains game that ran through level 16 with 7 players that ran for almost two years before we completed the campaign. I'd love to run it again some time with a new group, since my old group no longer has the time to get together to play.

Best wishes!


Fomsie wrote:
thenovalord wrote:


Discuss before what evil you are comfortable with

This is very, very important.

While many, if not most, players when given license to play "evil" tend to play Chaotic Stupid, Killy McMurder types, doing over the top destructive comic book villain rampages, some will actually plumb some truly vile depths with their characters. And much how some people are uncomfortable with certain types of movies, some will be uncomfortable playing in or around certain situations... especially if major taboos are brought into play. Be very mindful of what your players out of character limits are in this regard, because evil campaigns can really push boundaries in many cases.

This. There is a difference between killing because I can, and planned annihilation of a group I don't like, between black comedy and true sadism, make everyone aware of what buttons not to press, and it can work very well, if you do not, then issues pour forth.


Yeah ... there's naughty, bad, and malevolent.


I would talk to the players a lot before hand and see how they see their character and where they would like it to go as an evil PC. The more work pcs put into the character the less 'disposable' they are.

Beware factions within your group and PvP also, for example two players whose characters are siblings isn't such an issue in a 'good' campaign, in this one it could be however. The division of magic items especially is a potential 'flash-point' and do NOT play the 'one PC will betray the other PCs' game. If you make clear to the pcs that a range of challenges will be set so you will need a range of characters to overcome them then they will have an incentice not to go PvP.

Good advice on where to set the boundaries has been given in previous posts (I'd internally give your game a 'rating' like a film or video game in this regard) but I do think you should tie the pcs together through a common goal. This is where Lawful Evil is possibly a far more playable alignment than Chaotic Evil from the point of view of buying into a story arc and sticking to it. I would go so far as to subtly discourage Chaotic Evil characters by giving benefits to membership of organisations who have some alignment restrictions (the benefit of being Chaotic Evil is that you answer to no-one).


You can do despicable acts just do it off 'camera' and assume terrible things were done to the villagers

And as stated above, be the character and move on from the class, alignment etc.

Keep it fun and changes/adapt as required


For me, when I run a evil campaign, I would ask my players what their characters desire the most and what have they sacrificed so far for that goal, if they have not sacrificed anything or lost anything yet, make them a neutual person and slowly make them evil. Once in awhile you have to remind your characters they are good people in their own ways.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Advice on running a memorable evil campaign All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.