Whip Hexcrafter


Advice


I'm kinda just mulling over an idea here. I'm thinking of a warlock type character (Hexcrafter Magus) that uses a Whip and Spiked Gauntlet in one hand (for threat area so he threatens adjacent at least) and casts with the other. I'm going for a melee striker/debuffer here.

For race it would probably be Half-Elf for the free Exotic Weapon Proficiency and other elfy goodness. Maybe even going with Drow Blooded and Drow Magic for Stealthy stuffs.

I was actually also considering combining it with Kensai and pumping Int and Dex and forgoing Strength completely. This would work especially well if I get Combat Reflexes ... the only problem is the Whip doesn't threaten.

Actually, the Whip as a whole is a problem. I wanted to combine it with Enforcer to give the Shaken Condition. The problem is that with things with armor I will have trouble even damaging them. So... that is pretty terrible. Maybe if I take the Blade of Mercy trait? Then I could use the Scorpion Whip, right? Its slashing. Still doesn't solve the issue with not being able to threaten with a Whip.

I honestly considered a Small sized Flying Blade... but that is just silly and I don't want to eat the potential -4 to hit (goes to +0 on AoOs though!).

I was also going to go with the Rime Spell + Wayang Spellhunter + Frostbite + Enforcer to give them Entangled, Fatigued and Shaken. Possibly even doing this from first level depending on what I select for a first level feat.

As for the rest of the melee side I was also going to go with some tripping feats later on. Obviously I would need Weapon Finesse if I'm going to forgo Strength. I would also need Combat Expertise to even go into any of the Trip feats. So then there is Improved Trip, Fury's Fall, Greater Trip, maybe even Fury's Snare. There was also the afore mentioned Combat Reflexes. Since I was going for the Striker/Debuffer thing I would also really love to fit in Shatter Defenses which requires Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display. That also will make Deadly Stroke look pretty tasty later on too.

So... how the hell am I going to get all those feats? Welp... if I go with Kensai/Hexcrafter the Kensai side would give me Weapon Focus. There is honestly no way that I am going to put a dent in those feats without some Fighter levels. Lore Warden seems in theme both mechanically and fluffy. For 2 levels I would get 3 feats. The lack of Armor Proficiencies wouldn't hurt with being a Kensai and all. 3 levels would get me a +2 on all CMB and CMD. Hell, if I'm going for 3 I might as well stick around for 4 to get another bonus feat. 4 feats in 4 levels and a +2 to CMB and CMD doesn't seem too shabby.

I realize it slows down spell progression but Magus isn't really a full caster anyway. I also realize that I would be giving up some effectiveness to fit theme, but I'm ok with that so long as it doesn't completely gimp the character.

Now for the caster side of things...

First of all I would love to fit in a Familiar but only if I could get Improved Familiar (Faerie Dragon so good!!) and with everything else going on with the build I just don't think it is in the cards. I just don't think I have enough room to fit it in. So, I'm just going to skip that for now.

The Hexes that I am looking at primarily are Evil Eye (to start the debuffing madness), Misfortune (to make it worse) and Cackle (to continue it). I do not want to go with Prehensile Hair. I dislike it for this concept and it can become nearly game breakingly powerful. Same with Slumber, that is just boring. Pass. Flight is good but I don't know if I will be able to fit it in before it loses its luster. Accursed Strike is definitely going to happen.

For Magus Arcana Arcane Accuracy is going to start looking REALLY good towards mid level. It will also help with landing those trips. Disruptive could be great if I could manage to threaten with a Whip. Same with Spellbreaker. Honestly, I just haven't played with enough of this stuff to know what would be good for this type of build.

I may not get a lot of room for Major Hexes in the build and if I go with more than 2 levels in anything other than Magus then I'll never get a Grand Hex. I'm not overly broken hearted about that. None of them really seem great for the build anyway.

As for Metamagic I definitely want Rime Spell. Not interested at all in Dazing Spell cheese. Merciful Spell might open up some possibilities with Enforcer. Persistant Spell could be good later on. Sickening Spell is good to lay on the debuffs. I will likely have to rely on Metamagic Rods for many of these though. I do not tend to play primary casters often so advice here would likely be helpful.

You are going to hate me for this... but it would also be sweet to throw in a few levels of the Thug rogue Archetype. Hear me out on this, though. Frightening extends shaken and can potentially Frighten my opponent. Frighten is an one of the best debuffs in the game (especially if I can find a way to threaten with the Whip... GR!). Sticking around for 2 levels nets me a Rogue Talent. There are so many good ones to choose from. Befuddling Strike or Offensive Defense are both good for the debuffing schtick. I could also just pick up Finesse Rogue or Combat trick to shore up my need for all these feats. Taking Ninja Trick to gain Pressure Points or Style Master (Crane Style) seems good. Staying for 3 levels gives me Brutal Beating to apply Sickened.

The problem is I don't think I can fit this all into a build.

I mean...
Lore Warden 4, Thug 3, Hexcrafter/Kensai 13 wouldn't be terrible, would it?
It would get me 4 bonus feats from Lore Warden (including Combat Expertise), 1 from Thug, 3 from Hexcrafter/Kensai (including Weapon Focus). It gets a free Hex, and will at some point gain a single Major Hex... though I don't know which one. Plus 10 feats over levels that comes out to 19 feats/hexes/talents/arcana or whatever. 20 if you include the one from Half-Elf.

It falls short of a 16 BAB though, which is unfortunate. I could shave off a Rogue or Fighter level, I guess. I would also get rewarded with Iajutsu Focus if I did so.

I dunno. I got a lot going on here. What do you think of where this all falls together as a concept?


Ok, just found the Whip Mastery line of feats. How did I miss these before? Oh yeah... its cause they do not appear on this list. God, all of these seem good for this build. If I go this route I could use a Whip rather than a Scorpion Whip and still be effective. It would also free up a trait from Blade of Mercy.

...its just more feats though. UGH!


The Whip Mastery is really priceless for any whip user. Well, the first two are. Greater Whip Mastery doesn't do much for you, since you'll be wanting to make spellstrikes with your whip, not getting it tied up in a grapple.

Kensai saves you a feat, since you get proficiency in a single martial or exotic weapon of your choice, so you are free to choose another half elf ability, or go human for the extra feat.


/facepalm Oh yeah. Forgot I got it free with Kensai.

Actually, I rather liked the idea of keeping spare whips around to use just for Greater Whip Mastery. Grappled is a debuff. :)


So you can't do both Kensai and Hexcrafter as they both replace Spell Recall. That puts a bit of a kink in my build. However, this is what I have so far:

Half-Elf
Replacing Adaptability to get Ancestral Arms for EWP: Whip
Replacing low-light vision with Drow-Blooded for Dark Vision (this is good as I will be using stealth)

1st - Magus 1: Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat, Weapon Finesse (1st), EWP Whip (Half-Elf)
2nd - Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (bonus)
3rd - Magus 2: Spellstrike, Whip Mastery (3rd)
4th - Magus 3: Arcane Accuracy
5th - Magus 4: Evil Eye (bonus), Rime Spell (5th)
6th - Fighter 2: Combat Expertise (bonus), Enforcer (bonus)
7th - Fighter 3: Maneuver Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery (7th)
8th - Fighter 4: Improved Trip (bonus)
9th - Magus 5: Dazzling Display (9th), Shatter Defenses (bonus)
10th - Magus 6: Misfortune
11th - Magus 7: Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor, Extra Arcana: Accursed Strike (11th)
12th - Magus 8: Improved Spell Combat
13th - Magus 9: Fury's Fall (13th)
14th - Magus 10: Fighter Training
15th - Magus 11: Combat Reflexes (15th), Cackle (bonus)
16th - Magus 12: Agony,
17th - Magus 13: Heavy Armor, Greater Trip (17th)
18th - Magus 14: Greater Spell Combat
19th - Magus 15: Disruptive (arcana), Quicken SLA (19th)
20th - Magus 16: Counterstrike

That gets everything I wanted except the Rogue (Thug) stuff. I think it makes up for it in spells and Hexes though. Everything is fairly delayed from where I want it to be, though. Waiting until 9th to setup the Shatter Defenses/Enforcer abuse is kinda sucky. I kinda need the whip feats where they are at though to decrease the suckyness of using a whip for a weapon and actually making it viable. I guess I could switch around Shatter Defenses and Improved Trip.

I would love to do Rime Spell at first level but there is honestly no room without delaying Weapon Finesse and that just seems bad with a low Str high Dex build. Likewise I will have to get Whip Mastery as early as possible so I can actually damage anything. Cant get that til I get Weapon Focus so I have to wait til 3rd.

Also I have never played a Magus. Not sure all of what kinda tricky stuff I can do with the spells yet. I haven't looked into it much.

I dunno. I feel like it could use some improvement. What do you think?


Oh, and I thought of going Elf for the extra arcana favored class option but losing out on EWP at first level isn't really doable even though it would net me the equivalent of 2 bonus feats/arcanas/hexes. The stat bonuses would be good, though.


Check the sylph race - with a whips range being in a obscuring mist is untargetable goodness if you can see thru fog (some sylphs can). Also flight at will is pretty handy when you have 15ft reach (another sylph feat) and with +2 int and dex and other spells/outsider etc goodness.

Grand Lodge

Half-Orc is another option, as they can get whip proficiency with the City-Raised alternate racial trait, or the Caravan Drover Race trait.

Actually, with the Adopted trait, you can nab Caravan Drover, and use any race.

What races are available?


Lune wrote:
Oh, and I thought of going Elf for the extra arcana favored class option but losing out on EWP at first level isn't really doable even though it would net me the equivalent of 2 bonus feats/arcanas/hexes. The stat bonuses would be good, though.

Actually, according to This FAQ, Half Elves can pick up the Elf FCB, so you can get the extra arcana or hexes.


Hm... Sylph. That is an interesting option. Not sure how I would picture a Sylph Warlock.

BBT: Caravan Drover. Hm. I'll have to take a look at that. This is mostly just theory crafting for some possible future game that I'll likely never get to play in. I know that isn't a big motivator but you know me... I love making character concepts. So... I guess I can't answer the question of what is available but I would say probably the more widely available things the better.

revaar: Awesome catch!

Grand Lodge

Using a Scorpion Whip will ease you in as well.


Scorpion whip doesnt do nonlethal for enforcer though.

Grand Lodge

True, but it is better than dealing no damage.

Remember, a whip deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher.

So, you will want one, until you get Whip Mastery.

Also, you can just nab the Blade of Mercy trait, and deal nonlethal with the Scorpion Whip.


Thats 3 traits unless i go half orc. Then i miss out on wayang spellhunter. Guess i could take extra traits.

I was also going to use a spiked gauntlet until he gets improved whip mastery.

Also to do lethal with a scorpion whip takes a seperate ewp feat or else i would be taking a -4 to attack.

Grand Lodge

What races are available?


Take Drawbacks to get more traits, they are usually more character defining.


BBT:

Me...earlier wrote:
This is mostly just theory crafting for some possible future game that I'll likely never get to play in. I know that isn't a big motivator but you know me... I love making character concepts. So... I guess I can't answer the question of what is available but I would say probably the more widely available things the better.

Grand Lodge

Well, there is the Hobgoblin, with the Pit Boss alternate racial trait.


I feel like using a race with racial HD would put me even further behind the curve. Good catch though.

Grand Lodge

Hobgoblins are a base race, with no racial HD.

Are you thinking of Bugbear?

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