Help Getting My Players To Trick Themselves


Advice


So running my first campaign this Friday and i decided to make it all from scratch. So far doing it has been a blast and haven't had many problems. But there is one encounter that I'm having a real creative block on. Currently its set up like this->

*Town's Guard Gives Players Quest To Defeat Evil Spellcaster Hidden In The Mountains
*Players Go To Mountain And Most Likely Get Captured By Spellcaster
*Wake Up To See Servant Adjusting Their Chains(He was a person captured but spared in exchange for assistance in menial task)
*Spellcaster Shows up, Taunts and Tortures Players For A Bit
*Players Escape And Easily Beat The Weak Spellcaster In Close Combat and Save All The People Captured By The Spellcaster(Only The Current Servant Survived To This Point)
*Player Return To Town To Turn In Evil Spellcaster And Claim Reward
*Guards See The Spellcaster And Confirm That He Is Not The One Their After, He Is Infact The Mayor's Son And Was Kidnapped Along With The Rest
*After This Player's Think Back And Realize The Servant Was Actually The Spellcaster Only To Realize The Servant Has Disappeared
*Players Are Arrested For Killing The Mayor's Son And Carted Off To Jail

I'm Currently having a problem thinking of a way for the guards to give this quest and then the players to mistake the spellbound mayor's son as the evil spellcaster. But not only that but when told that the got the wrong guy they realize the correct one was the servant(all by themselves without my help) and he actually fits the description they were looking for.
Best i could come up with right now is that the guards tell the players the spellcaster has a Tattoo of XXX, The mayor's son has that Tattoo when they find and defeat him, but upon return it seems to have vanished.
Sadly this has more of the "almost no possible way of knowing" effect and makes them feel like they dont deserve to be sent to jail. I want them to truly despair in the fact that their own foolishness killed a innocent person and they deserve the sentence they are receiving.

Sovereign Court

I think you'll go off the rails by point 2. Taking PCs captive is REALLY HARD, because most players have a fight-to-the-death mentality.


Ascalaphus wrote:
I think you'll go off the rails by point 2. Taking PCs captive is REALLY HARD, because most players have a fight-to-the-death mentality.

If the follow the path given, and don't try to travel through the woods to where they think the wizard is hiding out, a trap is set that Releases a Mixture of Insanity Mist And Nightmare Vapor, Setting Off an Alarm. The real Spellcaster, While Hidden From View Above Them, Cast Sleep And will be decently hard for them to escape(save). I Say Possibly Because There is a chance they find the trap and don't set it off, the alarm will still go off within range and alert the Spellcaster but after that they have a much higher chance of not getting caught. I have a different route if this happens but we are just assuming they didn't find the trap and got captured :p


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Damiancrr wrote:

So running my first campaign this Friday and i decided to make it all from scratch. So far doing it has been a blast and haven't had many problems. But there is one encounter that I'm having a real creative block on. Currently its set up like this->

*Town's Guard Gives Players Quest To Defeat Evil Spellcaster Hidden In The Mountains

Sounds cool.

Damiancrr wrote:
*Players Go To Mountain And Most Likely Get Captured By Spellcaster

I agree with Ascalaphus. Also, while I do not know your players, I'd probably start feeling sceptic if I'm getting lawnmowered and captured for the sake of the story. That part, IMO can be done better.

Damiancrr wrote:
*Wake Up To See Servant Adjusting Their Chains(He was a person captured but spared in exchange for assistance in menial task)

Sounds believable. Can the players get out of the situation with some clever social roleplay? Perhaps escape with the help of this servant?

Damiancrr wrote:
*Spellcaster Shows up, Taunts and Tortures Players For A Bit

Meh...

Damiancrr wrote:
*Players Escape And Easily Beat The Weak Spellcaster In Close Combat and Save All The People Captured By The Spellcaster(Only The Current Servant Survived To This Point)

So the spellcaster has a Insanity Mist/Nightmare vapour/Alarm trap set up along the path through the forest.... but no early warning system should the people he's captured escape and run amok inside his own house?

Damiancrr wrote:
*Player Return To Town To Turn In Evil Spellcaster And Claim Reward

Hurray!

Damiancrr wrote:
*Guards See The Spellcaster And Confirm That He Is Not The One Their After, He Is Infact The Mayor's Son And Was Kidnapped Along With The Rest

Unless, of course, your players asked for a description of the spellcaster, or asked around and found out that the mayor's son was missing BEFORE venturing out on their quest... like my players usually do. Then get a description of the Mayor's son so they may identify him, should they come across him in their travels.

Damiancrr wrote:
*After This Player's Think Back And Realize The Servant Was Actually The Spellcaster Only To Realize The Servant Has Disappeared

The biggest meh - this seems weak.

Damiancrr wrote:
*Players Are Arrested For Killing The Mayor's Son And Carted Off To Jail

Because in this town it is illegal to defend yourself against evil spellcasters, when they attack you with their evil magics! Is the forest where the spellcaster lives even in this town's jurisdiction? Also the guards have ABSOLUTELY no evidence or even IDEA of what happened in the forest except what the players tell them. So what if the body they bring in is the mayor's son?! The evil spellcaster could have taken over his body. The mayor's son could have been the evil spellcaster all along. What if the players capture the "evil" spellcaster instead of killing him dead?

Damiancrr wrote:
I'm Currently having a problem thinking of a way for the guards to give this quest and then the players to mistake the spellbound mayor's son as the evil spellcaster.

That is because it is not a strong story-point and would likely require a bit of fiat from the GM. The Mayor's son could be disguised, but when the players inevitably check over his body for loot, they have a good chance of noticing the disguise. Better than a pair of town-guard NPCs that's almost certain.

The Mayor's son could be magically disguised, but such magic disappear when the caster dies. And if it doesn't how do the guards see through it after a cursory inspection of the body, while the players didn't notice it while manhandling him?

Of course, you could just have the guards not provide a description, saying they don't know what the evil spellcaster looks like, but then the players can just say "Well, it turns out the mayor's son was the evil spellcaster all along. I guess that is why you didnt know what he looked like, he wanted to keep it a secret, because he was living right among you for a long time, until he faked his own kidnapping". Occam's Razor.

Damiancrr wrote:
But not only that but when told that the got the wrong guy they realize the correct one was the servant(all by themselves without my help) and he actually fits the description they were looking for.

I don't see how you can make this work with such a weak setup. If the players need to have a revelation moment where they realize the evil spellcaster was the servant all along, then they need to have a prior understanding of their enemy. This is something you can accomplish with a villain that you've spent alot of time building up and who has a relationship with the party. They know eachother and eachother's signatures and tricks. So when you trick the players, hindsight kicks in and they realize.

With a villain you've barely established, and whom the players do not even know the description of (as far as I've been able to tell), having them realize that the servant is the villain, requires them to interact with him, and requires him to drop hints. The problem is that if he drops hints that he is the villain, the players may figure it out on the spot. I'd usually not say that this was a problem, rather I'd say it's a good thing, but your plot seems to me to require you to railroad your players all the way, so in this case, them figuring out would probably be bad. Aside from that, I don't see it.

You COULD have the players see a snake tattoo on the wrist of the servant, who then answers their curious looks with "this is something I got back when I was young and free. Just a stupid decision made a by a larger-than-life youngster"

and then when the guards and players inevitably start arguing over the imminent arrest (BTW I don't know your players, but I'd expect violence to occur here), the guards argue that this man does not even have a snake-tattoo. Then, of course, the problem with the description resurfaces, and whether or not the players can be arrested for defending themselves against a spellbound attacker, escpecially since the guards left out important descriptive information. But at least the realization should be there.

Damiancrr wrote:
Best i could come up with right now is that the guards tell the players the spellcaster has a Tattoo of XXX, The mayor's son has that Tattoo when they find and defeat him, but upon return it seems to have vanished.

Heh, looks like I could have saved myself the trouble of writing the above if I'd have checked to see that there was more text a bit further down :P

Damiancrr wrote:
Sadly this has more of the "almost no possible way of knowing" effect and makes them feel like they dont deserve to be sent to jail.

That is because they don't. You've railroaded them into a no-win situation and your plot disinvolves any player agency or initiative. It is not good storytelling. If this was 1 of several possible fallouts that you'd been planning ahead of time, based on what your players might or might not do, then I'd argue it was a fairly good, if a bit strecthed way to handle the players failing in all possible respects and coming out their ordeal with a dead mayor's son. But as the only planned course of action, I'm sorry to say, but this is not very good IMO.

Damiancrr wrote:
I want them to truly despair in the fact that their own foolishness killed a innocent person and they deserve the sentence they are receiving.

They don't. And they won't. You are the course of the problem. Your predetermined narrative determined what was going to happen. They are not going to feel like their own foolishness killed an innocent person.

1) because he was attacking them, spellbound or not.
and 2) because you already decided that they are going to fail.

But I digress. I can see 1... count em' -1- way of making them feel that way. You have to lie to your players. Not in character, but out of character. You have to lie to your players and tell them "I don't know, you guys. You kinda did cause this yourself. I gave you dozens of hints and opportunity to solve this. I didn't plan for this to happen, but here we are. You've killed some schmuck kid. It's not pretty, but that's where we are"

You came asking for advice, and I offered you my advice, but also alot of my own opinion on your plot. I apologize if you did not appreciate it, but I do genuinely feel that this is not a good plot, and I would not want to play it, or see anyone play it. Make of that what you will.

I hope it works out for you, and I hope you and your table have lots of fun and excitement with whatever you chose to do.

-Nearyn

EDIT: Question - You say this is your first campaign. Is it your first campaign in pathfinder, or your first time gamemastering?


okie deleted that, its like 6 in the morning after a 24 hour shift(still havnt been to sleep) and i over-reated a bit. Hope you didnt read it, Re-writing the comment now.


Kevin Mack wrote:
Actually he was trying to give you advice insulting him for it is not cool.

Dam guess someone did see it e.e Read above x.x Though to be fair he straight out insulted my work with no prior knowledge to it, and doing so when i didnt even ask for help on it. But~~ i digress, I did over-react just a little bit.


@Damiancrr:

Spoiler:

At least have the decency to read the entire post if you're gonna call it blind hate :P

I do provide advice, but you may not have read that, as you've decided to not read the entire post. I even took out time to apologize if you did not like me critizing your plot, although your little backstroke there makes me ponder if I should take back that apology. I won't though, because I can easily see how I can come off as abrasive.

Let us just pack that whole nonsense away.

ahem

Hi! I am Nearyn!

Welcome to the Gamemaster's chair. I hope you have fun sitting in it. I'd be glad to help if you want my advice :)

#RedoingFirstImpressions

-Nearyn


Damiancrr wrote:
I'm Currently having a problem thinking of a way for the guards to give this quest and then the players to mistake the spellbound mayor's son as the evil spellcaster. But not only that but when told that the got the wrong guy they realize the correct one was the servant(all by themselves without my help) and he actually fits the description they were looking for.

I guess it depends on how stuck to RAW you are. If you have a lot of freedom to do what you like, then I can think of one possibility.

The mayor's son is under some kind of enchantment to kill any prisoners escaping. His form is also changed by a illusion of some type (I'm thinking similar to a hat of disguise.)

When the party escapes, the mayor's son attacks the party, and the party kills him. Either the mayor's son was also a spellcaster, or you're going to need a second illusion that makes it look like he was casting at them (or maybe a wand?)

PC's don't search the body carefully (or the hat of disguise item is very well hidden.) When the PCs return to town with the corpse, the mayor and the guards thank them, but then one of the guards discovers the hat of disguise-like item and removes it. The body is then revealed to be the mayor's son. The mayor, in a fit of illogical rage, orders the PCs to be imprisoned.

Now as far as if that will be fun for the players, that's a different story.


Damiancrr wrote:
I want them to truly despair in the fact that their own foolishness killed a innocent person and they deserve the sentence they are receiving.

Why? Do you think it will be fun?

I have been in a couple of memorable games where we players "tricked ourselves". But that's just it, WE TRICKED OURSELVES. It was very obvious that we overlooked clear clues about the situation and that the DM was not trying to trick us.


Nearyn wrote:

@Damiancrr:

At least have the decency to read the entire post if you're gonna call it blind hate :P

I do provide advice, but you may not have read that, as you've decided to not read the entire post. I even took out time to apologize if you did not like me critizing your plot, although your little backstroke there makes me ponder if I should take back that apology. I won't though, because I can easily see how I can come off as abrasive.

Nevertheless, welcome to the Gamemaster's chair. I hope you have fun sitting in it. I'd be glad to help, but since I'm not even sure if you'll be reading this, I won't start typing, just yet.

-Nearyn

Welp Finished reading through your comment and after wading through all the judgement I came out with no new ideas and alot of hurt feelings over lack of knowledge of my campaign.

Just to drop a backstory for you this is the introduction of the main villain in the upcoming sessions. A sort of CE Wizard who enjoys using disqueses and possessing others to do his dirtywork. Sort of a man of many faces kinda deal. Even the face they see as the servant isn't really him, that's just his favorite appearance and what they will usually see him as.
As for the railroading this campaign is literally prized on not railroading my players, they have no obligation to take this quest or go this way. Its pretty common for people to set traps near their secret layer so obviously there is going to be one. A smart player would check for traps along the way, They have a 60% chance of spotting the trap if they look which i feel is generous for taking the obvious road to his hideout. I think you misunderstood my use of the word torture, though i didn't expect to have to explain myself so i didn't bother clarifying when i wrote it. I mean Physiological torture not physical. I expect the players to break out of their confines in the first or second attempt. The Wizard wants them to break out and kill the "evil spellcaster", this is all his plan. One of the player's backstory's tie into this Wizard and the wizard has a jolly-old time giving him hell.
After they get captured they will realize subtle familiarities between the mayor's son and the guard escorting them to jail. Freeing them along the way but also making them fugitives of this town. From here they can choose to still go to jail and trial or make a run for it, or anything else creative they can think of. So yea, im personally fine with my world and have gotten rave reviews from my players and the precursor(Them playing a short part leading up to them meeting each other and forming a party). So thanks for the advice on the story but it is not very much needed. If you have any advice on what i asked in the main post though, I would be very much appreciative.


Valandil Ancalime wrote:
Damiancrr wrote:
I want them to truly despair in the fact that their own foolishness killed a innocent person and they deserve the sentence they are receiving.

Why? Do you think it will be fun?

I have been in a couple of memorable games where we players "tricked ourselves". But that's just it, WE TRICKED OURSELVES. It was very obvious that we overlooked clear clues about the situation and that the DM was not trying to trick us.

Its not that I think it will be fun but it will help give the villain that I'm setting up a very... cunning sense to him, while still having the player's be able to look back and think "that was a cool trap he laid out for us". Everything else I have planned for him fits him perfectly and I know the players are gonna love it but this one part has me stuck. I could cheese it and just make it so they have no idea beforehand and I'm sure they wouldnt care that much, but i hold myself to a higher standard and want to give them something that leaves a good feeling after everything is said and done, instead of mixed feelings. I dont like the idea of my players thinking any part of the campaign "couldnt be helped".

None of my players are so serious as to get upset when they get tricked in a campaign or something unfortunate happens to their characters. its all just about having fun with friends and enjoying an interesting story.


Tormsskull wrote:
Damiancrr wrote:
I'm Currently having a problem thinking of a way for the guards to give this quest and then the players to mistake the spellbound mayor's son as the evil spellcaster. But not only that but when told that the got the wrong guy they realize the correct one was the servant(all by themselves without my help) and he actually fits the description they were looking for.

I guess it depends on how stuck to RAW you are. If you have a lot of freedom to do what you like, then I can think of one possibility.

The mayor's son is under some kind of enchantment to kill any prisoners escaping. His form is also changed by a illusion of some type (I'm thinking similar to a hat of disguise.)

When the party escapes, the mayor's son attacks the party, and the party kills him. Either the mayor's son was also a spellcaster, or you're going to need a second illusion that makes it look like he was casting at them (or maybe a wand?)

PC's don't search the body carefully (or the hat of disguise item is very well hidden.) When the PCs return to town with the corpse, the mayor and the guards thank them, but then one of the guards discovers the hat of disguise-like item and removes it. The body is then revealed to be the mayor's son. The mayor, in a fit of illogical rage, orders the PCs to be imprisoned.

Now as far as if that will be fun for the players, that's a different story.

Thank You!

Played with your idea a bit and came to a great thought. Misdirecting them into thinking he did something magical he did not is a great idea!

The Spellcaster's face has never been seen since he is gone before anyone arives at the scene. But one thing that is always prevalent is that plants seem to Wilt where-ever he goes(thought unbeknown to them it takes a few seconds after him walking by for the plant to wilt). A Plant Can Be On The table of his hideout. When the Servent leaves and the Spellcaster enters the plant on the table will wilt. Leading them to believe it was the mayor's son who made the plant wilt and not the abused servant. After they drag the body back they are told that this person is the mayor's son. They turn to confirm with the servant that this was indeed the man torturing them and kidnapping everyone, only to find the servant gone, and all the grass he has walked on dead behind them and a trail leading away as he escaped. The Servant Wisely walked behind the PC caring the Mayor's son so as not to draw suspicion along the trail. :3


Damiancrr wrote:
If you have any advice on what i asked in the main post though, I would be very much appreciative.

I can provide as rules-legal ideas as I can think up if you'll give me an idea of this spellcasters power. What level he is and what ressources he has etc.

If it is no skin off your rosy nose if you have to bend or break a few rules to get the story told the way you think would be the most fun for your players, there are many ways to achieve what you seek. I do not feel particularly inspired right now, so excuse me if I do not list any, outside of what I mentioned in my first post. If you would tell me if you'd prefer rules legal methods, or just methods that tell a good story, I'll try to come up with something when I get some coffee in me.

Also, since you're new to GM'ing, I offer you a look at these. My tips for aspiring GMs.

Hope it helps :)

-Nearyn


Dot; will provide some feedback soon.


Nearyn wrote:
Damiancrr wrote:
If you have any advice on what i asked in the main post though, I would be very much appreciative.

I can provide as rules-legal ideas as I can think up if you'll give me an idea of this spellcasters power. What level he is and what ressources he has etc.

If it is no skin off your rosy nose if you have to bend or break a few rules to get the story told the way you think would be the most fun for your players, there are many ways to achieve what you seek. I do not feel particularly inspired right now, so excuse me if I do not list any, outside of what I mentioned in my first post. If you would tell me if you'd prefer rules legal methods, or just methods that tell a good story, I'll try to come up with something when I get some coffee in me.

Also, since you're new to GM'ing, I offer you a look at these. My tips for aspiring GMs.

Hope it helps :)

-Nearyn

Promised my players i would stick to the same rules they do, also told them I wouldn't fudge any rolls or DC's aswell so trying to keep the game as clean and fair as possible. I always felt annoyed when i -knew- my DMing was fudging rolls to stop me or another player from succeeding and I don't want my players to feel the same way.

Villain is currently a level 10 Wizard though that is just his default, i will most likely be switching 1-3 levels for some multiclass coolness. Resources are pretty much unlimited since he is decently powerful and likes to take what he enjoys. Players are Level 5 Vanere Barbarian, Level 5 Human Magus, Level 5 Human Bard, A Hippogriph Mount, And a Psuedodragon(the mount and dragon are both slightly stronger then core).

Edit: Finished reading the tips and am now reading the blogs you posted in the comments bellow :p I know two people who have been dming for a while now and they are literally maters of the trade(at least compared to the 10+ ive met on roll20). They have taught me alot of this already and I'm a real quick study but I'm always ready to learn more. Wouldn't have gotten into medicine if I didn't enjoy hard work and late nights of work/study xD


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This turn into some weird kinda of mud throwing intentionally or not.

I however think this plot sound awesome!

My players would not mind getting tricked in this manner as long as it was somewhat according to RAW.

That means that the trap would have to be very ingenius to actually catch them all.

I would probably go with a silence, darkness and hold (magic or a net), before dropping the wizard with the sleep spell. In that way he will not be seen, unless they have darkvision and you can make an effort in describing the happening rather than just have them fail some saves.

"The forest suddenly becomes quite. No bird is heard and the wind a that rustled the leaves a minute ago has died. You all stop dead in your tracks. [Leader] turn toward you mouthing something. It takes a moment before you realise that he is actually talking but no sound leaves his mouth. Then the entire forrest disappears and you are left in total darkness. The ground moved under your feet and you experience a sudden vertigo as you are heaved into the air. You struggle to escape from what feels like a hempen net. you reach for your sideknife but it slips from your fingers; you are tired; so tired"

What is you alternative route if they make the save?

I actually think you are quite safe that the PCs wont ask for a description of the wizard. Usually wizard are the ones with the pointy hats and staff. Give them his name and if they insist have the Guards tell them have a argument whether he has warts on his nose or a dragons tale (basically if this is an illusionist enchanter no one will really know).

When later on they encounter the servant you might want to have him where a chain too, if a longer one. Otherwise the pcs might question his allegiance.

Once the mayors son enters describe him to the Pcs as "wearing great flowing robes radiating magic and caring several scroll cases and wands at his side. He seems alot young than the wizards you have know but the evil look in his eyes tells you that this is no kid" at this point there should be no doubt that this is the wizard especially if he tortures them a bit (Which i think would be fine). Meanwhile have the Pcs make some sense motive checks which will reveal something about the son and the real wizard, but in a way that exploits the concept of delayed decoding.

Example one
In torture "while the other cuts have been shallow this one goes deep and you feel as deep red blood begins to run down your arm. You see [servant] standing behind [wizard]; eyes flare in anger and and for a moment you think he is about to pounce on your torturer but then he shrinks back"
Here the servant gets angry for his subject coursing actual harm to the Pcs, but the pcs will see something else until the truth is revealed.

Example two
While talking about what he will do to the town mayor or town or the like "In mid-sentece his eyes glazes over as if he is dreaming somewhere else - the distraction last only for a moment then his gaze return to you and his face explodes in a laugh 'muhaha you really think you have a chance'" This would actually represent the mayors son fighting the control and the last utterance is actually addressed to the mayors son.

The Mayors son have to have some magic items such as wand for the combat to be believable.

When they loot the "wizard" have them make a knowledge arcana check to see that the spell components are not genuin and that the town guards might have exaggerated quite a bit (which is supported by the fact that he was reliant on wands).

Have the servant help cover up the body of the boy for travelling and while doing it he can dismiss his illusion spell that create the image of the robes; leaving a very young-to-look-at boy in his noble outfit.

Disappearing should be fairly easy in a crowd or simply by imply that he really wanna see his wife on the out skirts of the town.

When they uncover the body there should be plenty of reason for imprisoning them. Especially since non of the other prisoners have seen anything.

If the Pcs doesnt make the conclusion them self have the servant appear in the crowd at the trial. Have him stand smiling in the far back, wink at them, chance his face to that of the boys and then walk away.

The only problem i see with this plot is that for the rest of the campaign your pcs will trust absolutely one one. But that can be a lot of fun as long as you are prepared ;-)

Hope this helps


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As promised, a few quick thoughts for you to consider. These are all just my humble take on how I'd try and do a similar set up:

-0) Before you read the rest, please note that I like the basic idea, but I think it could take a bit of polishing. All the below is constructive criticism, and how I would go about setting up a similar scenario for MY particular playgroup given what they are like.
- 1) You're initial sketch seemed very railroady. For example, you have a trap that the players can't escape, to bounce into a combat they can't lose, so they can be convicted for a crime they can't avoid committing. This presents two problems: either your players might feel disenfranchised, because their actions don't actual lead to anything. Alternatively, they'll do things you weren't expecting and you'll have to keep doing crazier things to get them back onto the rails.
- 1.1) Despite this, I think the idea of the "duped into a crime" idea is awesome. What you want to do therefore is work from the ground up on a few critical points, and let the characters GET to those points however they want to.

-2) An important thing to consider when constructing your long term villain is not merely to say "He's a tricky wizards", but work out why he wants to trick these particular NPCs in the first place. If he is able to 100% trap them, then why does he let them go to get done for a crime? Why couldn't he just kill them? More importantly, if them beating the major's son results in all the captured people being released, why did he really care about capturing them in the first place.
2.1) Suggested solution: don't trap them on the way to the castle. Let them fight their way to the castle naturally. When it comes to actual villain, make him locked up in a room right outside the "final boss fight" room. Give him an incredibly high bluff rank, and just say that he is the wizard's play thing. This way, he can still seem like a servant, and they can still believe him. Let the PCs take a perception check when they find him, and on a high DC the can note that for a slave the wizard seems quite well fed.

3) How far into this adventure are your players? Have you been GMing them a while or is this your first game? If this is the first game with these characters then you have the opportunity to do something really special: the flash forward.
3.1) The flashfoward could have your characters wake up in a dungeon, no weapons or armour. They have an executioner come down, take them up to a stage to be beheaded, and right as they're about to be beheaded, flash back to a month earlier. Start the actual adventure here, and this way the characters know that they're going to do something to lead to them being captured and tried for execution. This can break some of that "railroad" ice, because they have an exciting challenge to look forward to in the future. They know at some point they'll be in trouble, but they don't know why.
3.2) The downside to this flash forward is that they'll all be on the look out for things that aren't what they appear, this means you'll need an airtight bait and switch.

EDIT: sorry if some of this makes no sense, I'm quite tired after work.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Damiancrr, it might be simpler not to capture the party, or at least not make it an overwhelming effort. If the wizard is alerted to the Party's coming, he can arrange to swap places with the Mayor's son (dominate person should work nicely, or maybe charm).

Then the party can be 'captured' via pit trap or something in a dungeon area - taunted, then freed by the 'old man' who brings them food.

As for giving the quest - obviously the Mayor's brash son went to defeat him and never returned. Now the guards are talking about it, and the reward on the wizard's head (dead or alive). Maybe a reference to his red hair tied to how headstrong he is - give them an off-hand comment that they could connect. If they ask for good descriptions, good on them (and they may still be fooled).


Majuba wrote:


As for giving the quest - obviously the Mayor's brash son went to defeat him and never returned.

This is really smart, I like this.


NerdOfTheYear wrote:
Majuba wrote:


As for giving the quest - obviously the Mayor's brash son went to defeat him and never returned.
This is really smart, I like this.

Yup People have been going missing steadily for the past 5 weeks now. The Day before the group shows up the mayor's son(who is undergoing private training in the Fighter PC class) gathered up some other men and went to assualt the same lair the PC's will be heading too.


NerdOfTheYear wrote:

As promised, a few quick thoughts for you to consider. These are all just my humble take on how I'd try and do a similar set up:

-0) Before you read the rest, please note that I like the basic idea, but I think it could take a bit of polishing. All the below is constructive criticism, and how I would go about setting up a similar scenario for MY particular playgroup given what they are like.
- 1) You're initial sketch seemed very railroady. For example, you have a trap that the players can't escape, to bounce into a combat they can't lose, so they can be convicted for a crime they can't avoid committing. This presents two problems: either your players might feel disenfranchised, because their actions don't actual lead to anything. Alternatively, they'll do things you weren't expecting and you'll have to keep doing crazier things to get them back onto the rails.

They can perceive the trap beforehand or even not take the road giving and instead swing around but if they do fall into it, then it is indeed constructed so they cant escape(but what trap isnt?). The combat is indeed nearly impossible to lose, but they do have a chance to avoid the crime. If they at any point use Detect Magic on the servant, don't actually kill the spellcaster, discern the Servants identity before they get to town they can avoid the crime, or at least being committed of it. Those are just the ways off the top of my head though, maybe my PCs can think of more. :3

Quote:

- 1.1) Despite this, I think the idea of the "duped into a crime" idea is awesome. What you want to do therefore is work from the ground up on a few critical points, and let the characters GET to those points however they want to.

-2) An important thing to consider when constructing your long term villain is not merely to say "He's a tricky wizards", but work out why he wants to trick these particular NPCs in the first place. If he is able to 100% trap them, then why does he let them go to get done for a crime? Why couldn't he just kill them? More importantly, if them beating the major's son results in all the captured people being released, why did he really care about capturing them in the first place.

All this will be revealed in coming sessions but as things go on the players will realize this wizard is sending them down a road and the faster they realize the faster they can fight back

Quote:
2.1) Suggested solution: don't trap them on the way to the castle. Let them fight their way to the castle naturally. When it comes to actual villain, make him locked up in a room right outside the "final boss fight" room. Give him an incredibly high bluff rank, and just say that he is the wizard's play thing. This way, he can still seem like a servant, and they can still believe him. Let the PCs take a perception check when they find...

I do like the idea of adding more to the encounter. It was ment to be a short intro to the villian taking no more then 45min max but adding a few encounters doesnt sound like a bad idea :) I still want the trap to go off or be found though. All the campaigns we have played up to this point have had 0 traps(except for one which was already tripped) and i want them to get used to the idea that the easiest way isnt always the smart or best way.

Flashforward idea also sounds pretty epic. Will def play with that idea :)


I hate to say it, but I've seen similar things tried and it rarely seems to work.

It works in a novel, because the author has control over what everyone thinks and does.

Every time I've seen someone try to do something like this double-triple think tricky accidental betrayal in an RPG it has never worked out unless the GM just flatly tells the players what they think and believe. Then they get upset about that.

I hope it works out for you. If it does, please come back and let us know what did and didn't work.


Zippomcfry wrote:


What is you alternative route if they make the save?

If they make the save the wizard will just cast sleep the next round, he is doing it from the trees so i dont think they will get to him before the spell works.

But if you mean if the Spot the trap before tripping it the will encounter the wizard without the Negs to Will(and thus avoid the sleep spell). It will be 1 wizard against 3 and a half min-maxed PCs so I doudt he will win. If he does he will be captured earlier then they expected and sent to rot for his crimes. If he actually beats them in the encounter then it will play out similar to them getting captured by the trap(although maybe a bit extra physical torture for all the trouble they caused him).

As for the Examples 1 that sounds amazing. Will def steal that from you :p
Example 2 with the blank-stare sounds great also ^-^
All of the prisoners are dead except the servant. But im sure the players will loot the bodies on the dead people. Two of them are gonna have magical items, one of them a enchanted sword that happens to be the same one as the mayor's son, helps them assume he is already dead and to the downs people is evidence of their crimes.


I have to agree with Kydeem, If I were to do something similar I would probably make it into some sort of Murder Mystery, that way you can have the red herrings such as the Mayors Son etc.

I hope it works out as well.


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Okay. Let's see then. As far as I am able to gather, these are the biggest hurdles, the places where the plan is the most likely to collapse unless we ensure our wicked wizard has made his preparations properly:

Catching the party in the trap. Passing himself off as a servant, while leaving enough of an impression for the characters to piece the truth together. Ensuring the death of the bewitched son. And finally keeping it all under wraps until it is too late for the heroes.

As a 10th level wizard with access to the ressources he needs, we're pretty well set for options. As long as he can reasonably aquire scrolls of a high enough level, he is not even limited by his own spell-access, as long as he can boast enough UMD.

This wizard could have taken the Feral Speech Arcane Discovery, meaning he can have any number of spies among birds and beasts.

The Nightmare Vapor/Insanity Mist combo is potent, but with a Barbarian on the team they might not all go down. Further if the party are quick to respond that they hold their breath, they have a 50% chance of not having to make a save at all.

Also, do note that Sleep is not a powerful enough spell to use against a bunch of 5th level PCs. Saves not withstanding it is just flat out not strong enough. Deep Slumber could do the trick, but it'd have to be several castings of it to flatten the entire party.

The wizard has a suite of illusions and transmutations to choose from when disguising himself, so that part should not be tricksy.

Then there's the bewitched son. Hmm... The problem is that it can be deceptively easy to detect enchantments on a person if you take the effort to notice. Sense Motive DC 25 or less I believe. Perhaps if you create distracting circumstance (such as combat or a summoning ritual that must be stopped at all cost?) your players will just jump into the fray and hack the poor kid to kibbles.

Lastly there's the moodsetting. A tough cookie. My advice would be to not rush the plot. If the players only just arrive at the city, and the guard goes "YOU THERE! ADVENTURERS! WE NEED YOU!" then there's really nothing at stake and nothing for the characters to care about.

If you let them enter the town like any other travellers and give them a day or 2 to just put up their feet and relax after a long travel, you can give them reason to care. Your players are likely to stop at an inn. So take a breather, relax and just let them get a good feel for the place. Tell them that it is peaceful and nice, and that people are presently being entertained by a juggler(or something) that has come to earn a meal and bed. Then a waitress approaches (make sure to give her a name) and asks if she should bring them some good drink and a helping of the beefstew they still got bubbling in the kitchen. Whatever they order, she leaves and doesnt return for awhile. It gets to the point where it becomes just a smidge annoying that your order has not arrived yet, when she returns with an apologetic smile and an extra big helping of whatever they ordered. However she has the black lines of a recently tear-covered face.

This is the not-so-secret paramour of the Mayor's son and she's worried sick that he's gone. She wont tell them that unless asked, but if the players don't show interest let them overhear whispers in casual conversation, that acts as a precursor to the plot you are going to present them with. As the evening moves on have some locals involve themselves with the players and ask where they're from and why they look so well armed and well travelled.

This gives one of the locals the bright idea to rush to the mayor's house and tell him about these adventurers. He then arrives personally, or sends a messenger, asking for a favor(favors are better than deals, they imply closeness and vulnerability). Naturally he is willing to pay what he can out of his own pocket for their assistance, see the thing is his dear wife is veeery~ worried about their son (A low DC sense motive here tells the players that the mayor is just as worried, but maintains a facade of calm for the sake of his wife and the youngest daughter (who now has a big brother riding on the line, and suddenly the happiness of a little girl is involved. Your players may not notice, but their brains will)). The Mayor would very much appreciate if someone would go and make sure everything was alright. His son only left as soon as yesterday, and he's told his wife she should not be worried, their son is likely not even at the forest yet, but she still worries. He'd appreciate their help very much. He would send his own people, of course, but he already sent what few people he could spare with his son. With all the disappearances over the past few months he needs the men to maintain a pressence in the city so that people feel safe, you see.

You can take your time with this if you want to. If you smear feel-good and happiness and puppies in your player's faces they will start to suspect you're setting them up for tragedy so playing it cool and presenting a pleasant, but normal town would be best. When you offer the players a chance to connect with pleasant people, they will likely form a bit of a connection. That will be what leads to the feeling of dread when they realize they've unwittingly caused grief to the poor mayor, and perhaps all of the city. All because they were deceived! by that godsdamned warlock!! GRRR!!!

Just suggestions, but maybe you can work with 'em :)

-Nearyn


I after a good couple decades as a part time gm have finally realized railroading is BAD. I'd rather my player sniff out traps early if he plays it well. Usually plot traps like yours backfire on me. If I allow things to flow naturally it almost always works better and the players have more fun.

Silver Crusade

If your campaign is just getting started, recommend starting the players off being captured. Players hate being captured and even more so if it appears the whole ordeal was simply a GM plot device. Some players will mutiny, suggesting that if the GM wants a story to go exactly his way, then why are players rolling the dice?

So start them being captured rather than a farce of pretending like they had a chance at not being taken captive.

Next question is why this powerful wizard is wasting his time with a bunch of 1st level nobody adventurers. It takes a lot of effort to kidnap. So maybe it's an experiment. Maybe this caster is developing a new breed of spell, an arcane version of Imbue with Spell Ability and a viral form of Charm Person with a longer duration. He charms a target with a long-lasting charm, imbues the target with the ability to charm person, and (unique to this villain only), the villain lures more minions in. But, he needs minions who can cast offensively to protect, so he imbues some with a magic missile or a burning hands, etc. Have the longer duration of the charm be ensorcelled in the form of a magical tattoo. The villain might also like to use children because civilized foes are less likely to suspect them.

So, the players could be aware people in town were being "kidnapped" and had set out to investigate. Maybe their memories are vague (the caster was trying out memory-related spells and they weren't working as well), something about a magical attack at night.

Until they can be charmed, they remain prisoners, or perhaps they are meant to be combat test-dummies for the charmed minions.

When the party escapes, and presuming they kill the mayor's son, the town can announce the mayor's son had set out days before them to find the kidnapper. The magical tattoo was not on him before he left. The mayor accuses them of murdering his son. The magistrate agrees it doesn't make sense the party would announce their crime, but he's bound by the mayor's words. Maybe he arranges for them to surrender weapons but be allowed to investigate any leads. At this point, you can have a mystery on your hands. Although a local base has been cleared, the villain isn't done yet and probably has agents in town.


The overall concept feels a bit stifling, but if the players like such tricks, it could work... but how sure are we that they will kill the mayor´s son? He would probably surrender rather than fight to the death barring supernatural compulsion to do just that, and there´s always the chance one of those meddling kids decide to specifically try to take him alive to answer for his crimes.

Also, the "Save All The People Captured By The Spellcaster(Only The Current Servant Survived To This Point) " bit doesn´t seem to make much sense as it is. If the other people don´t survive, this will impact the mood of the chronicle and not build up to the swing you are planning with their triumphant return, but yes, having no other survivors makes things much simpler for the villain. If there are people to save, they can be spoken to (yes, they can be under a compulsion or be deceived, but it is possible the PCs get an idea something is wrong) and speak with dead is a reasonably low-level spell...

Generally, it is always good for the PCs to have a chance to understand what is going on. When someone goes to such a distance to mess with them, even their surviving and disappearance is a good hook... after all, who knows what he´s going to do to them next if they won this round?


I have some advice for you. I feel like you wrote the beginning of a good novel, but this is a game and 3 other people are going to be actively trying to affect their own will on the story. The hardest part of being a GM for me is writing encounters more than one games session in advance. I know my players are trying to have fun and want to play my game or they wouldn't be there, but they constantly do things I wouldn't do given their characters.

That said I'm interested in your setting and NPCs. Who is this evil wizard? Has the mayor done something to him in the past and the PCs are caught up in some old drama? Is the mayor a good person who did nothing wrong or is he more sinister than he appears? Does the evil wizard want to ruin the PCs reputation for some reason, or are they just the ones unlucky enough to play the role of patsy? What is the deal with the son? Is he a headstrong hero or is he really the wizards evil apprentice? How will the mayor react when the PCs reveal the evil scheme? Is he a recurring friend or a BBNG who is imprisoning them anyway and must be defeated or escaped?

I might not answer any of those questions online if I thought the players might read the answers, but I would think through the answers.


Gregory Connolly wrote:

I have some advice for you. I feel like you wrote the beginning of a good novel, but this is a game and 3 other people are going to be actively trying to affect their own will on the story. The hardest part of being a GM for me is writing encounters more than one games session in advance. I know my players are trying to have fun and want to play my game or they wouldn't be there, but they constantly do things I wouldn't do given their characters.

That said I'm interested in your setting and NPCs. Who is this evil wizard? Has the mayor done something to him in the past and the PCs are caught up in some old drama? Is the mayor a good person who did nothing wrong or is he more sinister than he appears? Does the evil wizard want to ruin the PCs reputation for some reason, or are they just the ones unlucky enough to play the role of patsy? What is the deal with the son? Is he a headstrong hero or is he really the wizards evil apprentice? How will the mayor react when the PCs reveal the evil scheme? Is he a recurring friend or a BBNG who is imprisoning them anyway and must be defeated or escaped?

I might not answer any of those questions online if I thought the players might read the answers, but I would think through the answers.

Luckily my players dont vist this forum so i have little worries that they would read parts of the story in advance here. The evil wizard is a level 10 illusionist with a great deal of cunning. Within this world there is a secret magic consul of magical practitioners that influence the world from behind the scenes with their magical powers. This evil wizard wants to implant himself in this consul and bend it towards his will. To do this he has to not only free a vacancy in the consul but also earn their trust and a invitation to the consul, all without them suspecting he is doing all this to join the consul(since as far as they know, no one but a select few even know of its existence). When i made the map for the world i made a large continent that had a very strong resemblance to a broken yin-yang symbol, this entire continent is enclosed in a anti-magic field. The only magic strong enough(at least i believe) that works within a anti-magic field are artifacts, so floating in the sky above this continent, hidden in the clouds, is the Cloud Castle Of The Storm King. Here is where the consul holds its secret meetings, in the last place anyone would look for magicians.

The reason he is after one of the player is actually due to a joke turned into a character. We were making fun of the meme's that were saying all praise the helix fossil and he ended up making a character based on the idea. He was abandoned in the mountains in a blanket with a helix on it, taken in and raised by a man on the mountain. Ironically, I had made the crest of the family that guarded the storm fortress a double helix(a reverse helix is hidden within a normal one). So i decided that this evil wizard attacked this players family while he was first born(they didn't want the child born within a anti-magic field for fear something could go wrong). The wizard took this opportunity to attack the family in hopes of capturing the father and using his knowledge to further his plans on world domination. In the confrontation the mother died, the father escaped with his son and got him away, but not without suffering a fatal curse from the wizard. A curse that brought misfortune to anyone near him. Knowing that the evil wizard would hunt him for the rest of his days and knowing with this curse he couldn't give his child the life he knew he deserved he left him to a dear friend of his, with the only thing to remember him by being the blanket he was born in, marked with a helix fossil.

During the assault the players will launch the wizard will recognize the child, being a master of manipulation of forms he knows exactly how someone will look from the day they were born to the day they die. Knowing the child is his best chance of finding the father he begins the scheme i mentioned above to get him to leave the town he is currently staying in and hurry him along with his search. Of course he will also have a little fun toying with his(in his eyes) trivial moral code.

As for the mayor's son, he was cocky and cruel in his own right so i dont have very many problems killing him off, the mayor is the loving dad who ignores the obvious signs that his son has gone rotten. So when the players kill his pride and joy, well, lets just say revenge and torture are too weak of words to describe the hell the mayor plans to put them through.


Posting here to update anyone who actually wanted to know what happen in the campaign this Friday. Warning though I'm going into decent detail so the post will be a bit long. As per nerdoftheyears recommendation I planned on doing the flash forward. But i didn't want it to just "happen" so the first part of the campaign was centered on them actually earning the flashforward.

The campaign started with them each heading towards a shack in the middle of the woods, rumor has it that Morgana Marth(an exciled member of the magical consul and a true genius of divination) is living alone in these woods. With each player seeking something different they find themselves coming to this place. Meeting each other as they arrive, along with a cloaking figure wielding a Chromatic Steel, Double-Sided, Great Ax with Starstone Edges and an extended handle as long as his body was tall(none of the players could identify the material so to them it was simply a golden/red Ax as tall as the guy). This ax wasnt made for combat, it was actually meant to be flashy to use as a diversion while he used his real weapons(two +1 revolvers, one merciful, the other lemning). So at this point the party consist of the pc's who are a varanan barbarian named Erza, a human kensai magus named Felix, and a vanaran druid/ranger with the pack archtype(previously was the bard but decided to change) named Bastion.

Upon ariving at the shack they attempt to knock on the door but before they even begin the motion it opens. Walking out Is a Vanaran with silvery-white furn that seems as smooth as silk. but even with this gorgeous appearance she seems, underwhelming. She exits the shack slouching and rubbing her head like she just got out of bed. As the character start to introduce themselves she holds out her hand to stop them while she yawns, then points to a spot next to her door. A sign that had not previous been there has appeared next to a small pot. The sign reads "10 Gold Per Person". The Mysterious Man and Felix both throw a platinum piece into the pot, Erza tries to throw in 20 gold, 10 for her, and 10 for her druidic bretheran Bastion. Morgana lets 10 of the gold fall but catches the other 10 pieces. She tells Erza that "each shall pay their own". After unsuccessfully trying to throw the gold back into the pot Erza simply hands the 10 gold to Bastion to pay but he waves it off. Instead callously sliding in 100 silver pieces one by one. After paying the gold Morgana straightens up and tries to put on a more mystic air. "As it has been foretold, so it has been" she tells the players. Before she agrees to grant them their request they must first complete a trial. Venture to the mountains, there you will find a large and uninviting cave, within you will find a crystal ball of great magical power. Bring this ball to me and I will grant you an audience.

So with this they make their way to the cave, they have a small encounter along the way. Forced to defeate 6 wolves and 1 dire wolf that after battle seem to fade away. Before the wolves fade away they managed to skin a good deal of fur from the Dire Wolf. These wolves dont mean much now but they are a foreshadowing of things to come as this was a trap set by another. After the encounter they rest for a bit to care to wounded and fix Bastions broken carriage. During this rest one of the players hears the Mysterious Man talking to himself and drops some words that leave the players unsettled as to his sanity and allegiance.

The players make it to the cave after about an hour of travel. In front of them is an entrance into the mountain 18 feet high and 25 feet wide. But it is hard to call it an entrance because it ends only 4 feet in coming to a flat wall. Sticking out of the wall are multiple small pillars of stalagmite. The Way up seems to be extremely far, farther then they can see, and goes into pure darkness. Erza and Bastion easily make it up the wall with their impressive climb speed with Felix slowly trying to make his way up. The two animal companions of Bastion also attempt to make their way up but cant seem to make it so its only the 3 players and the Mysterious Man. As they climb they notice the wall getting more and more horizontal. Even when they stop climbing the wall seems to continue to tilt untill it turns into a ceiling. The Mysterious Man, Felix, and Bastion each fail the required climb check and fall into the darkness. Erza Looses her grip but is able to catch herself with her tail. After the rest fall the stalagmite turn to grips easy for hold but all the rest of them shirk away into the ceiling, leaving a path of grips for Erza to follow. After Following these grips she comes to a platform. Before her is an archway that seems to lead to even purer darkness then what is already around her, yet by looking behind the door it seems to lead nowhere. After testing the Doorway and realizing that anything that passed through did not come back out she decided to take a leap of faith and bravely march through it. The other players were confronted with similar doorways. Bastion confidently walked into the darkness, welcoming it. Felix passed his arm through then withdrew. After seeing his arm not come back through with him he was hesitant to continue, but felt he would not reach his goals if he didn't have the confidence to march on through even the scary parts.

After making it through the door each player found themselves in a dome with rock walls surrounding them and floating lights scatter around the room, a glaring contract to the previous darkness. Farther in front of them, 60 feet forward, was a door with a large glass window and 3 grey buttons bellow it. Upon approaching the door a silhouette of a women surrounded by fog appeared. "Only 3 of you may pass, All of you must choose who to leave behind, Choose your betrayal and never regret". After this the women faded away and each of the other 3 players appeared before them above each of the buttons. The Women would only answer the player's questions with "Choose". The Mysterious Man had already chosen the right button. Bastion was the first to choose. He chose the picture of the middle button, To leave Felix Behind. After this choice the silhouette of the women reappeared and shouted "Betrayal!", Bastion felt a searing pain on his forehead but was only short lived as a hole appeared bellow him and he fell into darkness. After a sharp yank at his arms he opened his eyes to see dozens of humanoid skeletons surrounding him, arms chained above them as they hang there. Looking around he realized he was in the same boat, hanging front the ceiling of a extremely large room, no doors to enter through but at the end of the room, standing on an alter, was the ball he had been quested to retrieve. After this choice Felix and Erza both saw Bastion Choose the left button. After Failing To break down the door, the walls, or the ground he decided that rather then betray one of his companions he would rather find what he was looking for on his own and left the way he came. After this Erza saw that all 3 had chosen their buttons, with the Mysterious Man and Felix haven chosen the right button and Bastion having chosen the Left. After Stubbornly yelling at the silhouette for 5 days and receiving no other answer then "Choose!" she aswell decided that she would rather leave then betray a comrade, even ones that would betray each other as she had seen, walking back through the door she had came from.

After each player walked through their door they saw their party members coming through a similar one. Though it had taken some players hours or, in Ezra's case, days to decide it seemed that they all exited and met at the exact same time. As they see each other they hear the women's voice coming from seemingly nowhere and say "Good Choice". Sadly Bastion didn't seem to have made it. After meeting they followed a long hallway with lanterns at each side, till they came upon a wooden door with nothing but a golden handle. The players slowly turned the handle and snuck into this pitch black room.

When they get inside the door closes behind them, as they turn back they realize there is no longer a handle to open the door, only a keyhole. The room gains light and the players see it is aprox 15ft wide and long 20ft. In the center of the room is what appears to be a green and turquoise draconic creature, currently sleeping utop a podium and was not awoke as the players entered. Behind this creature are two things. The first is a pile of silver and copper metal, some are coins, others are badges or plaques, but within this pile glitters out a solid gold key. The other is a bed with a small girl curled up asleep in it. The girl has long red hair with tight curls, if you have ever seen the girl from brave when she was young this is what the girl looked like. Unlike the girl from brave this little girl was dressed in rags and covered all over in nasty bruises. Around her neck was a collar with a keyhole in the front but no chains connected to it. Erza sneaks over to the key and takes it to the little girl to get the collar off. When she arrives she realizes that the key is too big for the keyhole on the collar. Erza and Felix mouth to each other that the key for her collar must be under the dragon. After positioning themselves for attack against the dragon is necessary Felix awakes the Dragon by telling it they come to do no harm in Draconic. The dragon awakes and instantly takes flight in the small space, slamming Erza backwards and into the wall and then flying to the center of the room. The small girl wakes up in a panic and also crawls back into the corner. Felix standing on guard asked the little girl "Are you Ok?". The little girl tries to answer back but the collar around her neck tightens and chokes her so she cant speak. In this chaos the mysterious man had stayed out of vision, he makes his way to the little girl and frees her of the collar(with the Utility Shot Deed, though the players don't know this). The dragon hears the Mysterious Man as he helps the girl and instantly dives to attack him. Just barely escaping he manages to get to the other side of the room. As the dragon attempted to pursue him and the players get ready to attack the girl yells at "Please don't hurt him, he is my only friend!" and pulls back on the dragon to stop him. The players lower their weapons and question the girl on why she is here and where the bruises came from. The girl explains that her bruises do not heal but does not speak on it further. She insist that the players leave her alone and leave. Erza comes forth and overs to take the girl with her, away from here, but the girl simply responds that this is where she belongs. After failing to persuade her the players turn to leave and enter the key into the door.

The door does not open on the first turn, or the second, or third, but after a few turns the key behind to turn on its own without the players help. Faster and faster the key turns till it has spun so fast it appears to become solid and looks like a doorknob. The players turn the doorknob the opposite way of the key and the door opens for them. Entering a massive chamber with pillars on both sides, Farther in front of them, about 100ft, is an alter, and on the alter is the sphere they have come here to retrieve. Looking up they see Bastion hanging from the ceiling among many other skeletons. Ezra throws impact foam bellow him and attempts to shoot him down with a crossbow bolt but the metal is too strong. The Mysterious Man Throws his golden Ax and is able to break the chains. Bastion has been freed and lands safely on the foam. Upon inspection Bastion has the words Traitor seemingly etched into his forehead. As Bastion falls and touches the ground the player's Hear a Crash! behind them. The Carriage and Animal Companions the players had left outside appeared behind them. Sadly the wheels of the Carriage had been decimated by the fall.

After retrieving Bastion the players approach the ball. But as they do they hear a monstrous roar. From the ceiling Melts out a Huge(literally Huge Category) Undead Minotaur, wielding a Large Greatax, a Huge Heavy Shield, and Wearing a Metal Breastplate. The metal from his armor seems to have been melted together from many different metals, like he had taken the armor from all the skeletons and melted them together. From their right Two Large Category Undead Minotaurs come out of the pillars, one with a Double-Sided Ax and the Other with a Longsword. From the 6 Medium undead Minotaurs came from the Pillars. Through the battle the players learned that each person left a different colored swirl on the Minotaurs when they were struck. To defeat the minotaurs they must not only drop their HP to 0 but use teamwork to have at least two different marks on the monster. After a tough and close battle they were able to defeat the monsters and reign victorious.

After the battle the players approach the ball. Erza Attempts to Take the ball from the alter, and while it does move a small amount it will not come off the podium. The Mysterious Man mocks her for her weakness as a women and goes to take it off himself. As he touches it the inside swirls with the same colors as the marks they both left on the minotaurs. The ball feels looser but does not release. Felix also touches the ball and his color is added to the swirl but the ball still will not come off. Finally Bastion Touches the ball but instead of his color showing up Blackness starts to leak into the colors. The Silhouette of the women appears again and says "He have a Traitor among you, would you truly forgive him and let him share in your spoils?". The other players forgive Bastion for His Betrayal but the Mysterious Man hesitates, As blackness starts to envelope the ball The players hear angry Whisper From within the man, He then sighs and says "Forgiven". The blackness recedes and is instead filled with Bastion color, joining with the rest. The alter releases the ball and as it comes off it splits apart and an identical ball falls into each of their hands, swirling with their own color. A Door Appears behind the alter and the players make their way through it, the door opens to the mouth of the cave they had entered from. After exiting the door closed behind them, turned to stone along with the wall and stalagmites grew out in front to match the surroundings.

The campaign ended with this and them heading back to Morgana's Shack. When they arrive next session Morgana will use the balls to give them a brief glimpse into the future as a flash forward similar to the one mentioned above. She will then tell the players to keep the balls that they had retrieved. Telling them that they have put them into their weapons, their gears, themselves, or each other.
Various things happen to each of their items or each other when they use the ball. Although when you put it in you can never retrieve it. As an example If Felix put his ball into his weapon it would turn from Crystalline to True Crystalline. If two of them put the balls in each other they gain the teamwork feat Escape Route Or Lookout, If Erza puts it into herself she gains a new rage power, ect. ect.

If there are any questions about the campaign or you would like to know what would happen if they chose a different path please feel free to ask and i will answer as best I can. Will also post here next week to say how the advice You all gave turns out :)

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