Gaze Attack and Ready Action


Rules Questions


Hi folks, here's something that came up last night.

Party was fighting Hounds of Tindalos. It was a tricky fight, what with all the fog, invisibility, and quick teleportation of the Hounds. So the party settled to Readying Actions, specifically ready attack and ready spell.

The Hound would attack some party member and then come out of invisibility, at that moment the ready actions would come into play. I ruled that the moment they took their action, they had to save vs. the Gaze... both melee and spellcasters.

One player said he thought that ready action should come before the gaze, but I though it was logical for the gaze to affect during the readied action, so a caster had to perform a Concentration check due to damage dealt during casting.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
-arnon


The gaze would take effect on the player's turn before they even get to declare a ready action. If they survive that and ready an action, they shouldn't need to make another save until their next real turn comes up--basically their turn after the readied action is triggered, or else their next turn if the readied action is never triggered. This might mean that they make fewer saves per round of combat, but they also give up at least as much action economy to do so.

If they ready an action and the trigger never happens, then their turn comes up again next round as normal, so they're going to have to save anyway.

Then there's actively using the gaze. Initiative actions won't help there.


Depends on the readied action wording.

If the wording is before the invisibility breaks then they do not need to save against the gaze attack.

If the wording is after the invisibility breaks but before the Hounds have completed their attack then they need to save.

Sounds like your party wants to have it's cake and eat it too (after breaks but before they get hit with the gaze attack). Problem is, the gaze attack is (usually) a result of looking at the creature. It is not (usually) the result of the creature acting.

Frankly, if they are facing why do they not have smoked goggles? I always by them by level 2 if not at level 1. Sure, they come with a 20% concealment penalty but you also automatically avert your gaze and should that fail you get a +8 bonus to the save.

Move action to put them on. :)


I'll just clarify something, the spells cast on the hounds were direct spells, not area effects, so they could not have cast them before invisibility breaks because the Players could not see the Hounds. So the wording was: "Once i see the Hound, i cast my spell (or attack it)"

@blahpers: But the creature was invisible. So on the PC turn she could not have been subject to the gaze, once the Hound appeared due to attack, the ready action took place. If they had been affected by the Gaze on the turn they Readied the action, then no, they would not need a second save once the readied action was triggered.

@Gauss: this was a sort of "emergency" mission. They had no clear idea what they are facing, so could not prepare before-hand for it.

Thanks,
-arnon


It sounds like you ruled it perfectly well. The goal is to ensure that you cannot avoid the gaze attack AND get to attack the creature without penalty. To wait until it breaks invisibility is fine in this case because the players had readied actions to attack the target. Had they readied actions to look away, I'd have allowed that to avoid the gaze but then they couldn't attack.

Smoked goggles? My players scoff at such things as planning and forethought and items that don't offer a permanent bonus to attack, damage, AC, or saves! Sigh. Poor guys.


Earplugs, Oil, Torches, Tindertwigs, Smoked Goggles, Grappling Hook, and Rope are bare minimum for my characters at level 1. No idea what I am facing has no bearing on that, it is minimum equipment. :)


My players have level 1 requirements of weapon, armor, shield. Maybe a shirt. Pants are entirely unnecessary. Oh, and one might have a rope but they'll never remember to use it. Ever.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

As long as the characters only had to make one save versus the gaze attack per round, you were correct. Once they go for the attack on the now visible hound, they should make the save or avert their eyes, etc.

I am not trying to speak for Blaphers, but I think his point was that if they had already made a save of some sort since the character's last turn, then they should not have to make a second one in the same round. Of course it depends on the wording of the attack but that is how I run it. I do not like double jeopardy within a round unless the spell or effect specifically calls it out to do such.

Edit: @MurphysParadox, don't forget the Trail Rations (Iron Rations for you old school guys)! I think all my players (and probably my characters) wrote in there at 1st level and never used them or erased them even until the higher levels...


arnon wrote:

I'll just clarify something, the spells cast on the hounds were direct spells, not area effects, so they could not have cast them before invisibility breaks because the Players could not see the Hounds. So the wording was: "Once i see the Hound, i cast my spell (or attack it)"

@blahpers: But the creature was invisible. So on the PC turn she could not have been subject to the gaze, once the Hound appeared due to attack, the ready action took place. If they had been affected by the Gaze on the turn they Readied the action, then no, they would not need a second save once the readied action was triggered.

@Gauss: this was a sort of "emergency" mission. They had no clear idea what they are facing, so could not prepare before-hand for it.

Thanks,
-arnon

RAW, the save only happens at the beginning of the character's initiative order. If the hound is invisible at that time, tough break for the hound. However, ruling that you have to make a check on a readied action if you didn't make one yet that turn isn't unreasonable, and may or may not have been the intent of the design team.

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