Rerednaw |
Question.
As you leveled up did you find yourself more and more relying on:
1-'Traditional' Shocking Grasp + Spellstrike?
2-'Controllery' spells. (Glitterdust, B. Tentacles, S. Cloud) or Hexcrafter.
3-'Blasting' builds - say a Spell Focus+Spell Specialization Fireball build.
4-'Hyde-morph'. (Trog->Gargoyle->4 armed Gargoyle)+Frostbite?
5-'Other'.
I've been debating on the Moonlight Stalker feat chain. Since Blur is going to be one of my 'always' on defensive spells getting a +2/+2 seems nice...but as it won't kick in till around 9th...I'm debating that having those 2 other effectively filler feats may be better served in going another direction. Blind-fight is a decent feat...but if he cannot see a target...wouldn't fireball work as well? And Combat Misspertise isn't something I see a 2/3 BAB class using that much unless he wants to whiff. Or if he's especially built around it.
He could also just taking more staple feats like Iron Will, Improved Init, etc.
If he goes bladebound (possible) or kensai (unlikely) and focuses more on martial skills I can see it...but if he doesn't I am not sure if it is worth the investment so I wanted to ask those who have a magus and leveled him out. What did you find yourself using the most (especially in mid to higher level play)?
Thanks!
trollbill |
1- 50%
2- 35%
3- 15%
4- 0%
5- ?
Melee spell + Spellstrike is my normal default. If we have a nasty opponent that is messing everyone up (especially one I am not starting the turn adjacent to) then I tend to try to mess them up with control spells. If we are fighting a lot of beasties (or swarms) then dropping a fireball is usually a good option.
Lormyr |
1). Rarely, except at low levels.
2). Rarely.
3). Rarely.
4). Constantly on the polymorph, never on the frostbite.
I went with a bladebound kensai tank build, and it did its job well.
Pros: extremely high AC and CMD, free magic weapon (which allows you to put that money elsewhere), very high initiative, reliable to-hit and DPR, reliable save bonuses, good skills
Cons: melee focus with movement issues (namely sometimes you cannot full attack due to having to move into the fight), buff reliant (you can hold your own without buffs, but you definitely notice their absence), dodge to AC reliant (being flat-footed kills your AC).
trollbill |
1). Rarely, except at low levels.
2). Rarely.
3). Rarely.
4). Constantly on the polymorph, never on the frostbite.
I went with a bladebound kensai tank build, and it did its job well.
Pros: extremely high AC and CMD, free magic weapon (which allows you to put that money elsewhere), very high initiative, reliable to-hit and DPR, reliable save bonuses, good skills
Cons: melee focus with movement issues (namely sometimes you cannot full attack due to having to move into the fight), buff reliant (you can hold your own without buffs, but you definitely notice their absence), dodge to AC reliant (being flat-footed kills your AC).
Which is why I feel blind-fight is a must for Kensai.
kinevon |
He absolutely has Blind-Fight. It just doesn't cover all the bad, such as losing initiative, invisible ranged attackers, feint, ect.
Ayup. Nothing makes you feel "better" than rolling max on initiative, and still gettiong boned in the first full round of combat.
PolydactylPolymath |
1-All the time. When Keen kicks in at level 5, it does a wonderful job ending fights quickly (but see LazarX's point above). I also use Frigid Touch quite a bit--the damage isn't so high, but the 1 minute stagger on a crit is fantastic.
2-About on par with 1. More so past the first few levels as I started to encounter enemies with resistances. Slumber Hex is just as devastating on a Magus, as is Misfortune+Cackle.
3-Never. After years of being active on 3.5 CharOp, I still have a knee-jerk tendency to disregard blasting as inefficient
4-Haven't yet had a chance to try it. I'm running a Dervish Dance build, so it's somewhat less effective strategy for me (though an Agile AoMF would do the trick...)
I play a Bladebound Hexcrafter, so I usually spend the first round dropping a CC on multiple targets or a debuff on a single target. Spellstrike+Shocking Grasp is usually combined with closing to melee (cast, move, deliver); once I'm stuck in it's Spellstrike+Spell Combat with whatever I've got. I used Spellstrike+Brand quite a bit at low levels: unlike Spellstrike+Arcane Mark, there's no danger of table variation.
Lormyr |
Ayup. Nothing makes you feel "better" than rolling max on initiative, and still gettiong boned in the first full round of combat.
Heh, there is that. Honestly, in PFS play, flat-footed issues did not come up that often for him with a +17 initiative modifier and Blind-Fight. I would be more concerned about it in a home campaign or vs. other PCs than for scenarios.
If worse came to worse, I would just use monstrous physique III to become a minotaur, as natural cunning means they can never be caught flat-footed. You would lose the glorious 4 slam attacks (that's in addition to weapon attacks) from being a Calikang, but it would save your life if you were constantly fighting invisible ranged attackers or the like.
Rerednaw |
@Lormyr
MP 3 is gained 13th level for a magus and manages to cast it right before a surprise situation. Nice feature of the spell not sure how that works in Society Play.
@Nefreet
Off-topic. But why? The creature is a L Monstrous Humanoid (qualifies per MP2 spell) and in the Inner Sea World Guide which is a legal source.
Okay I have not seen a single post in favor of +2 attack +2 damage almost all the time (once he casts Blur or pops a potion of it or in dim lighting, via smokesticks, obscuring mist, etc...). Maybe I'll go with Extra Arcana or Hexes instead...
Lormyr |
You know, I did a double take on the AR when you said that Nefreet. I had never noticed the specific legality of polymorph entry present in all of the bestiary 1-4, and absent from everything else.
Woopsie!
Not a big though, as their are other good bestiary options that can wield manufactured weapons with 3+ natural attacks as secondary.
Telessar Talimah |
15 magus (kensai) 3 shadowdancer
1. I switch between intensified sh grsp, inten corr touch, and inten force punch depending on the circumstances.
2-4 the magus allows for options. I have telekinesis, intensified instant maximize fireball, and a host of scrolls through umd. Early on I used MP regularly. Later on there has been no prep time so I skip it.
5. Other - I am presently playing the final chapter of Rise of the runelords. Wand mastery and a stash of wands gleaned over 17the levels is working nicely.
Matt2VK |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
8+ in levels I usually end up casting group utility spells. Here's why -
Lack of wizards in area and when there is a arcane caster, it's better for me (magus) to cast utility spells and let the arcane caster cast nukes.
Facing creatures with SR and/or resistances. Most of magus's spells do damage of the more common resistances.
SUGGESTION - If you are running a magus, be sure you know the mechanics for the class forward and backward and know where to find those rules. I've seen way to many people play the magus wrong, plus I've been called on the magus's mechanics by PFS GM telling me I'm doing it wrong when RAW says otherwise.
Akasha Tezora |
My shocking grasp strategy went out the window and died in a fire in Year of the Demon.
My lime-green Lesser Metamagic Rod of Elemental (Acidic) Spell means I still get to one-shot 12 HD demons in the surprise round.
My absolute favorite tactic, though, is pre-casting a Shocking Grasp and then just clearing a room of minions. In The Waking Rune (no spoilers) I entered a room full of enemies, won initiative, and moved (hasted and flying) directly above a spellcaster before she took her turn, near several foes. On her action, she five-foot stepped and cast. When I went, I activated Spell Combat, crit her (killing her instantly) with Shocking Grasp, five-foot-stepped, finished my full attack on a minion (killing it with my two other attacks), then activated Lunge and cast Shocking Grasp again, which crit, and killed a third minion. Looking up at the two weakest mooks in the chamber (the only ones standing), I said, "NEXT!"
Magi are insane. Most fun class in PF, bar none.
redward |
@Nefreet
Off-topic. But why? The creature is a L Monstrous Humanoid (qualifies per MP2 spell) and in the Inner Sea World Guide which is a legal source.
For that matter, is the 4-armed gargoyle legal. I couldn't find a legal source for it in the Additional Resources.
Rerednaw |
LazarX wrote:My shocking grasp strategy went out the window and died in a fire in Year of the Demon.My lime-green Lesser Metamagic Rod of Elemental (Acidic) Spell means I still get to one-shot 12 HD demons in the surprise round.
...
Off-topic but please explain that.
Surprise round: 1 action. Did you:
Cast a spell?
Draw the rod? (if you were wielding a weapon how did you cast with both hands full?)
Swing once at a target?
Rerednaw |
** spoiler omitted **
Found it.
Each Bestiary section (under Pathfinder Society Additional Resources) has a blurb about 'being legal for polymorph'. However non-Bestiary books do not have that clause.
Unfortunate. Basically means you can fight them...or even NPC casters who can turn into them...but you are not allowed.
Katydid |
But crit-fishing gives you sooo many nice things! Why would you not?
Rime Spell Metamagic/Frostbite/Enforcer/Cruel Weapon/Shatter Defenses/Kensai Iaijutsu Focus got me nice mileage for the long run, although that wasn't in PFS. Especially when the ruling was that you could store charges in a Spell-Storing weapon.
dodge to AC reliant (being flat-footed kills your AC).
Can be mitigated by the Defensive Strategist trait. Benefit: You are not flat-footed when you are an unaware combatant. This includes a surprise round that you don’t get to act in, and before you get to act at the start of a battle.
You're still denied dodge when invisible things attack you. Cast Glitterdust on them. You can still be blinded, but that's okay because Magi have tons of defensive spells for when your AC drops. Some methods exist for you to get defensive spells from other classes, even.
Katydid |
I completely empathize with you. Myself, I wanted to use an Aldori duelling sword for the awesome flavor, but it was mechanically inferior to the crit-range weapons.
You could go with a whip for the added reach. There's a highly optimized hexcrafter guide out there where the magus dips into White-haired Witch to debuff with multiple hair attacks.
If this isn't PFS, you could also ask for a complete reskin, which the DM would probably allow within reasonable levels.
trollbill |
Has anyone ever had success playing a magus that didn't crit-fish?
My Magus crits all the time. The strangest thing though it in 9 levels of play she has scored a crit with Shocking Grasp only 3 times. The first two times the creature turned out of have immunity to electricity. The last time, when I had it maximized, I couldn't get past the SR.
Lastoth |
Has anyone ever had success playing a magus that didn't crit-fish?
Of course, groups carry with them more poorly optimized characters than well optimized ones in my experience. If "success" is living through the AP it's entirely probable you could do so. If success is dominating combat, it depends on how well or poorly built the other characters are.
Rerednaw |
Has anyone ever had success playing a magus that didn't crit-fish?
Hurm, actually none of my martials or hybrids are built on that assumption. Based on the numbers a threat only occurs at best on a 15+ (30%) right? And confirming the threat drops it even lower. Or is there something I'm missing? Is there an auto-crit build/gimmick? Well maybe Paladin with high-threat and Bless weapon for auto-confirm...but he still have to roll that natural 15+ on that d20.
All, thanks for the information so far it's been very helpful!
Artanthos |
FanaticRat wrote:Has anyone ever had success playing a magus that didn't crit-fish?Hurm, actually none of my martials or hybrids are built on that assumption. Based on the numbers a threat only occurs at best on a 15+ (30%) right? And confirming the threat drops it even lower. Or is there something I'm missing? Is there an auto-crit build/gimmick? Well maybe Paladin with high-threat and Bless weapon for auto-confirm...but he still have to roll that natural 15+ on that d20.
All, thanks for the information so far it's been very helpful!
A 15+ is required to crit, but you may well be making 4+ attacks per round. Averages say at least one attack per round will threaten.
Depending on archetypes and feats, critical confirmation may be a 2+ roll.
With critical focus and the kensai archetype a magus can easily have +9 on confirmation rolls at 9th level.
FanaticRat |
FanaticRat wrote:Has anyone ever had success playing a magus that didn't crit-fish?Of course, groups carry with them more poorly optimized characters than well optimized ones in my experience. If "success" is living through the AP it's entirely probable you could do so. If success is dominating combat, it depends on how well or poorly built the other characters are.
I mean success more in the 'able to actually kill things efficiently' sense, not strictly dominating combat. Y'know, feeling like a competent martial and not having to be carried.
Artanthos |
Lastoth wrote:I mean success more in the 'able to actually kill things efficiently' sense, not strictly dominating combat. Y'know, feeling like a competent martial and not having to be carried.FanaticRat wrote:Has anyone ever had success playing a magus that didn't crit-fish?Of course, groups carry with them more poorly optimized characters than well optimized ones in my experience. If "success" is living through the AP it's entirely probable you could do so. If success is dominating combat, it depends on how well or poorly built the other characters are.
Yes.
Groups can be successful without being optimized. It happens all the time. The forums will be heavily biased towards optimization.