Need help with a mostly optomized L1 Character.


Advice

Silver Crusade

So ive been DMed 5 AP's start to finish now. Almost the entire time we have been playing pathfinder ive been our DM, from session 2 in fact. so for a few years multiple times a week.

While we were talking about what AP to run next, Last week one of the other guys at the table whos been away for months asked if he could run a campaign. Hes been playing PFS Rules while hes been away.

My caveat was sure, as long as normal crafting and magic item creation rules apply, and the rest of the party voted to continue the ban on confirming 20's (all 20s are considered confirmed)

This is a pure hack/slash type game with next to no roleplay. DM wants blood. Last week his BBE took out 3/7 Players, one of them was my crazy Word L1 magus.. I spent a good amount of time working on his backstory.. it was a short story of about 34 pages.

Ive never sat down an optimized a class, Not really sure how to go about it.

Creation rules:
Races: Anything Paizo created is allowed
Classes: Anything Paizo created is allowed
Stats are 15,14,13,12,10,8
3 Traits, 1 Disadvantage/weakness
beyond that anything goes.

I don't care melee/ranged/magic/hybrid.

Id like someone that is able to handle a beating, as I have a feeling that DM2 is going to be gunning for me, because ive killed his wives characters twice in the wrath AP.

So I want to make it a challenge for him to get me killed a 2nd time and more importantly I want to deal out as much damage as possible while living.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Grand Lodge

That alone would to me say you need to play a paladin. Self heal, and good dmg output might keep you alive longer.


Any class? Hmm.

Synthesist.

Liberty's Edge

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Barbarian! Always go Barbarian if you don't know you'll make it past level 1 (and go Invulnerable Rager if you do manage to rise in level).

Go Half Orc, take Power Attack as your Feat. Grab the Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial traits.

Str 17 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8

For Traits, take Fate's Favored, which will combine with Sacred Tattoo to add +2 to all your saves...for a +8 Fort, +3 Ref, and +5 Will while raging at 1st level. Other Traits should probably be Reactionary and a save enhancer for Ref or Will (or Armor Expert). Favored class bonus in HP, for 15 HP total (17 when raging). As you go up in level you'll likely want to switch to using the Human Favored Class bonus...but that's an investment for the long run, which may be poor policy here.

Wizard or another full caster is better long term...but not as survivable at low levels.

At 1st, with starting GP only, use a Longsword and a Heavy Wooden Shield with Scale Mail. By 2nd level you should've replaced that with a two-handed weapon and a Breastplate...but the AC's probably worth more than the damage in this narrow and specific circumstance...if you disagree go Greatsword, Nodachi, or Falchion instead.

Progression:

2: Superstition
3: Diehard (you already have Endurance)
4: Lesser Beast Totem, +1 Str
5: Furious Focus
6: Beast Totem
7: Improved Sunder
8: Strength Surge, +1 Dex
9: Heavy Armor Proficiency (Mithral Full Plate should be an option by now)
10: Greater Beast Totem
11: Extra Rage Power (Witch Hunter)
12: Spell Sunder, +1 Str

By that point you should have some way to rage cycle and be very solid.

This isn't the best build ever, but it's very survivable, and that seems to be a priority.

Liberty's Edge

Kayne Rhal wrote:
That alone would to me say you need to play a paladin. Self heal, and good dmg output might keep you alive longer.

Paladins are wonderfully survivable...starting at 2nd level. 1st level? Not so much.

Remy Balster wrote:

Any class? Hmm.

Synthesist.

Eh...Synthesist is really not as good as all that without the ability to dump stats, especially at low level.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Remy Balster wrote:

Any class? Hmm.

Synthesist.

Eh...Synthesist is really not as good as all that without the ability to dump stats, especially at low level.

No... they're still very good. Check out random synthesist dude below. There are tons of ways to make one.

Weapon is up to you. One open evolution, can get better claws, or...whatever strikes your fancy, I put it in Skilled for the perception boost. Nothing like a +17 at level 1. Or even use it as a feat, since that is where it came from. Power attack, or weapon focus, or whatever.

Synthesist. Half-Elf. Level 1

Str 18
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 17
(Caster out of fused form Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12)

Hp 9+6 = 15 Effective HP
Init +3, Perception +17, Darkvision (lowlight out of fused form)
AC 18 (10+1dex+4nat+3studded)
BaB +1
F 2
R 1
W 4

Greatsword +5 2d6+6
2 Claws +5 (or +0 in full attack w/greatsword) 1d4+4

Skills: +5 Know-Arcana, +17 perception, +5 Spellcraft
Feat: Extra Evolution
Alt Racial: Ancestral Arms: Greatsword
Evolutions: +2 Nat AC, +8 Percep, +2 Str
Traits: Reactionary, Observant, something

Spells known: I'd go with Lesser rejuv, so you can heal your eidolon half(ie yourself), and enlarge person, cuz... yeah, large sized is good.

Fused Link, Summon Monster SLA 6/day 1 min duration

Advancement… so much option. Generally, you could focus on strength and speed, even pick up pounce. Or you could grab extra arms and learn multiweapon fighting for some craziness. Get larger, fly, all kinds of immunities, physical stats like… by 10th level your Str would be 34…plus whatever magic item boost you got, so realistically 36-40. That is like, +15 to hit and +22 damage on the greatsword, and you got an 8 bab, so +23 hit before anything else going on with feats magic items etc. Synthesist are insanely broken op.

Liberty's Edge

Synthesists can't benefit from armor while 'suited up'. It's right in the ability description. So...AC 15 at 1st level. That's...sort of a problem.

Those saves are also...mediocre at best. And the attack's weaker than a Barbarian of the same level's as well (+5 for 2d6+6, while a Barbarian can manage +6 for 2d6+7), and the HP are no higher. The Perception is seriously nice, and the self healing is okay (though it can effectively never heal more than 5 damage)...but those are about the only advantages.

Synthesists indisputably get seriously broken later on, especially when you're allowed to seriously dump stats...but they're just not all that at 1st level.

Silver Crusade

Kayne Rhal wrote:
That alone would to me say you need to play a paladin. Self heal, and good dmg output might keep you alive longer.

There is a lot of support for this. You get d10 hit die, heavy armor, can use a shield and you get full BAB. Every character will require some finesse to get the most out of any build. This type is pretty straightforward.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Barbarian! Always go Barbarian if you don't know you'll make it past level 1 (and go Invulnerable Rager if you do manage to rise in level).

This is good advice, too. You have to pick Archetypes by the time you get the first ability they replace. I think that's level 2 for Invulnerable Rager, but not 100%. You get a solid amount of HP, and could have even more with a little work.

A wizard can have 20AC and 20HP at level 1.

  • HP: Wizard(d6)+Toad Familiar(+3)+Tribal Scars(+6)+Toughness(3)+Con 14(+2)
  • AC: Base(10)+Dex 14(+2)+Shield(+4)+Armor(+4).

That's without taking any dump stats and still have enough points for an 18 Int.
Further, the Conjuration school gets a specialist ability that lets them teleport as a swift action...

The Summoner (Synthesist is not PFS legal if that matters) is very durable with the Eidolon and Summon Monster spells alone.

...
Honestly, there are a lot of very hard to kill characters, you can help the community help you by settling on some specifics.

Silver Crusade

Apparently it wasn't just a hack and slash campaign that he is running. That was his intro or part 0 of RotR-revised AP.

I went with the half-orc barbarian, ive never played either class or race as a player, ive played a full orc before in a evil orc campaign but that was back in 2e..

So last adventure changed things a lot. The supper harsh intro was to remove players from the campaign, not characters. He taken over my 12 player table and that's too many players for him to be efficient, He wanted to remove 4 peoples desire to play in the AP.. One of which was not me, he said I just know your the least likely to throw a tantrum if you die as a new character.. I hold no ill will towards those deaths on better halfs side, you used random dice, not even your own.

So This changes things. I have played though this path part way. Ive made it through the hook mountain stuff, but we had a TPK to a random encounter on the way back to Sandpoint.

We got through his part 0 and just about arrived at the glassworks, IIRC that's like 3 parts basically in one night.

The Half-Orc was a beast in his 17ac Agile BP and +10 damage with raging/power attacks. It was just run squish run squish squish squish. Goblins rolled very badly, did a total of 9 damage all night to him.

I was bored out of my mind.

Im going to have him join the town guard, he already works for the sheriff in his smithy. Maybe that will help out sandpoint down the road.

I want to be something that will fit perfectly into this AP.

He actually suggested Azlanti Pureblood, that was somehow trapped in time and was awoken now as the runelords stir in their slumber.

Im leaning towards the Scholar of the Ancients, though not as a historian but actually having lived way back when. What an Azlanti was doing in Thassilonia I don't know just yet.

But that leans me into thinking paladin perhaps, or perhaps a sorc or bard. I have to be able to make things, either from magical item creation feats or the master craftsman feat.. I cant justify paying full price for something, that I could have made myself. Crafting and Magic Creating is the whole reason we are not playing this campaign by PFS rules, just paizo rules.

I almost cried last week, when the party decided to pay some random npc person for mastcrafting their arms and armor instead of my half-human, who worked for their buddy at the other smithy.. All that coin wasted.. I was going to charge just my cost of the work, the other guy charged market, but they thought I was trying to trick them.. So I just laughed and played poker with the other smith and won their moneys :D

This guy did run an Eberron campaign years and I played an artificer in his tale. One of the only 3.5 guys I played long enough to reach 20th.

Im leaning towards http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/3rd-party-publisher---dro p-dead-studios---classes/the-artisan class as well.

Apparently its not just paizo created classes and such that are allowed. Anything on d20pfsrd.com or any paizo book is allowed far as race/class.

so adjusted new stats as Azlanti are 17, 16, 15, 14, 12, 10.
with my campaigns the players stuck with paizo stuff with exception of a couple different Marshal's So I don't really know 3pp that much. Thinking more about that artisan, or leaning sorc. any other suggestions for what would fit being a human azlanti, I don't know what actually happened back then other then high magic empire's that basically got to big/powerful for themselves and went crazy :D


Klokk wrote:
Im leaning towards the Scholar of the Ancients, though not as a historian but actually having lived way back when. What an Azlanti was doing in Thassilonia I don't know just yet.

Many of the Thassilonians (the ones linked with Azlant via bloodline, anyway) were Azlanti. See the Runelord statblocks of Karzoug and Krune for examples.

Anyway, are you allowed to swap around the scores (i.e. put the 17 into WIS, for example), or are they stuck in that order for ability scores?

Silver Crusade

stats can go in any order, they are just base of the 15/14/13/12/10/8. beyond that anything either printed by paizo or on the d20 site goes.

Sovereign Court

Anything goes eh? The simple logical answer is this:

Orc Barbarian. If DM bocks, cite Advanced Race Guide. It's paizo published. If literally anything on d20 SRD goes, then tell him you're playing a Half-Ogre barbarian. It's +6 STR.

+4 STR -2 mental stats. Plus you get Orc Ferocity. On the off chance that you go into negative hit points, you are up for one round to possibly take out the epic bad. With Rage your will save is still +2.

Base stats:

15 STR
14 CON
13 DEX
12 WIS
10 INT
8 CHA

Modified stats

19 STR (23 Raging)
14 CON (18 Raging)
13 DEX
12 WIS
10 INT
8 CHA

Feats:

Power Attack *duh*

Weapons:

Javelin
Dagger (for backup)
Greatsword/Greataxe

For other gear take a Barbarian's kit, some trail rations, rope and a carving knife. The carving knife is so that you can mock the DM and cut the teeth out of the BBEG and make a necklace out of his ears.

Traits:

Berserker of Society (+3 rage per day)
Reactionary +2 Init

Drawback: Do you really need one?

Archetype:

Invulnerable Rager for the DR 1/- at level 1. It's rounded down by default.

Summary:

Your minimum damage becomes 2d6 + 12 when power attacking. Your HP while raging, counting favored class, should be 17.

To really piss the DM off, have the party sorcerer slap enlarge person on you for that extra +2 size bonus to STR and 3d6 greatsword damage. Or just start play with a potion of it. Take Drunken Brute to drink it as a move action. On that note, take Drunken Brute period. Buy some cheap ale with starting gold. Laugh as you have free rage, but beware nausea afterwards.

The ultimate cheesed out damage build...

Play Human sorcerer. Pick up Spell specialization and spell focus evocation. Take cross-blooded sorcerer. Take Draconic and Orc bloodlines. Get Gifted Adept and Signature Spell traits. You now have +4 CL to Burning Hands.

Laugh while your DM cries when he you say 5d4+10 fire damage at level 1. To add insult to injury take Color Spray or Sleep as your secondary spell. BBEG gets blinded or stunned, then set on fire for massive dmg.

Note that if your DM is doing stat arrays it's probably to discourage munchkining. If you actually play with a build like CB Sorcerer or STR IR Barbarian he might freak out.

Again, DM in a low power campaign might ban hammer you or refuse entrance to a build like this... Your mileage may vary :p

EDIT:

About the Sorcerer build, it's all legal to play Cross-blooded. Note that Orc/Draconic give you a stacking +1 damage per damage die. With a stat array like that (frankly speaking, it sucks) you're best off with a SAD (single attribute) class over a MAD class like Paladin. Barbarian will keep you in the fight longer, plus it will scale pretty well.

CB sorcerer is a bit of a glass cannon, so Barb might be your best bet. 17 HP plus insane damage and DR makes you hard to kill at level 1. Then add in Orc Ferocity and you're beasting along straight into level 2. :P

If literally *anything* is OK from SRD... Play a Drow Noble and make a Zen Archer Monk. You'll start with SR, detect magic at will, awesome SLA's like divine favor and suggestion, good stats and the ability to pretty much attack twice with Flurry. Then just add precise shot in and you're good to go.

I warn you again that any of these builds are very likely to irritate a DM that isn't used to playing with optimized characters.

Dark Archive

actually I w.ould go with an orc scarred which doctor. Focus on your constitution primary, strength secondary. Constitution is your Casting stat, fortitude stat, and hitpoints.

The Exchange

Kayne Rhal wrote:
That alone would to me say you need to play a paladin. Self heal, and good dmg output might keep you alive longer.

If I knew a GM was "gunning for me," I don't think I'd play a paladin. Though not due to any weakness of the class. Although that would get the expected vengeance over with almost at once, and Ex-Paladin 1 / Other Class 1 is not too bad a combo, really...

Dark Archive

Orc Scarred witch doctor can be deadly! They are hard to kill due to their high hit points, and Fortitude saves. Their Will Saves are not bad.

18 Str
15 Con
11 Wis
12 Dex
8 Int
6 Cha

Wear the best armor you can afford and a tower shield.

Cast spells that require no spell components at first level, such as Command.

Your focus is to be a melee combatant and Debuffer.

Your first feat should be extra hex (evil eye)(Evil Eye always affects an enemy for at least one round even if they make their save.

It doesn't matter that your not proficient in it. Because at first level you wont be doing more than debilitating your opponents and providing flanking bonuses. Your AC should be really really good. The only thing that suffers is your Reflex, which can be mitigated with appropriate spells (later on), and skill checks. You can drop your shield to make certain skill checks.

2nd level- Select Gun Tank Archtype from the Gunslinger class. You get proficiency with heavy armor and Tower shield. Now you get to utilize your great strength in Melee, and you get to use a gun to make touch attacks for when you have all of your hexes active! Your combat feat at first level could be power attack for extra damage, or weapon proficiency if you don't like using a great axe (your proficient with these and falchion as an orc)

You will be a beast!!

Silver Crusade

The rest of the party consists of an elf, a sylph, 2 humans (not sure which type) and four dwarves. I had a hard enough time convincing the dwarfs not to kill a half orc, I cant imagine them letting a full orc live long enough to even have a conversation. They kept telling me the only good orc is a dead one. and that was with my guy wearing the Marks of Torak carved into his skin (those ritual tattoo's).

That's why I thinking to go with DM's suggestion of Azlanti Human, which is what the 2nd set of stats I posted was.

Artisan:

Native Human Azlanti Male Artisan

-Morning Star +3 Hit 1d8+3 20x2 B/P
-Javelin(12) +3 Hit 1d6+3 20x*2 P 20'
S:17 D:12 C:14 I:15 W:12 C:16
BaB 0 CMD: 14 CMB: 3
19 AC (6 MW Breastplate, 2 H Steel Shield, 1 Dex) 11T 18FF
F:2 W:3 R:2
HP: 13
Languages: Common, Terran, Ignan, Thessalonian
Skills: 6 Appraise, 6 Craft: Weapon, 6 Craft: Armor, 6 Craft: Jeweler, 7 Bluff, 7 Diplomacy, 6 Craft: Blacksmith, 7 K: Arcana, 7 K: History, 5 Profession: Mining, 7 UMD

Traits: Scholar of the Ancients (+1 K History/Arcana), Deft Dodger (+1 Ref), Reactionary(+2 Initiative)
Drawback: Daydreamer (-1 init, -2perc to avoid surprise)
Feat: Power Attack, Toughness
Simple weapons, Light/Medium Armor

Class Abilities
Master craftsman(ex) - Mechanics
Magical Affinity(ex)- Add class level to any craft/profession check to make magical item, and to UMD.
Enhancement Pool(su)3x Day = 1/2L + 2int
swift action +1 enhancement to any weapon/armor within 30'
Scribe Scroll (0th =12.5g, 1st=25g)
Magical Essense(su) - 100gp of magical items (50% of item only)
Crafters Art(Ex) - Metal items - 10% time reduction, may spend 2x material cost to create in half the time.

Gear: MW Breastplate, Heavy Steel Shield, Morning Star, Javelin(12), Backpack, MW Smithing Tools, Iron Ingot (6*1# bar)

Sovereign Court

One problem: The Azlanti went extinct. How can you play as an Azlanti? Aroden was the last one :P


taldanrebel2187 wrote:
One problem: The Azlanti went extinct. How can you play as an Azlanti? Aroden was the last one :P

Aroden overestimated his importance, frankly speaking.

Grand Lodge

Go Ranged to cut down on how much the dm can target you and to allow yourself to control the engagements. I stuck with a dwarf since you had issues with the party disliking odd races but there are some nice races in ARG that might suit these builds better.

Dwarf Monk Zen Archer

str 13
dex 15
con 12 (14)
int 10
wis 14 (16)
cha 8 (6)

feats at one - dodge, point blank shot

ac - 16 and scalable with armor spells
saves without including 'hardy'
fort +4
reflex +4
will +5

hp only 11 (with favored class bonus)

with enough starting cash a +1 strength composite longbow would do 1d8+1, decent but not threatening to the dm's manhood.

or

Dwarf Ranger

str 13
dex 15
con 14 (16)
int 10
wis 12 (14)
cha 8 (6)

feats at one - point blank shot

Scale Male 5 or Breastplate (6) depending on cash
Heavy Shield (+2)
AC 19(20)

weapon - stack of Chakram's (1d8+str. mod, draw it, throw it, repeat)

Saves without 'hardy'
fort 5
reflex 4
will 2

hp 14 (with favored class bonus)

Ranger has higher ac and hp, but weaker saves. Both scale up pretty nicely into other things. Ranger can switch to a different weapon when he focuses into something at lvl two, the shield and thrown weapon is just for early survival and low cost but has good damage return. It is not maximized damage for a lvl 1 character, but that would just make you a bigger target.

You could also try a fighter ranged archetype as well, they seem to be built well.

Shadow Lodge

Ignore those DPR-obsessed people -- what you want is insane defense if you think the DM is going to unload on you.

(You need to make some alteration from this cut-n-paste to accommodate your DM's stat array and traits)

The Sleeper Dwarf, 20pt (15,14,14,14,12,07 array)

STR:14
DEX:14
CON+17
INT:14 alignment: lawful-neutral
WIS+14
CHA-05

Traits: Defender of the Society, Militant Merchant,
-- base saves vs magic
00 05 04 04* (+2 more against charm/compulsion)
01 09 06 08 cleric1 [Abadar for Travel], Steel Soul
02 11 06 08 fight1 [no archetypes], Dodge
03 12 06 08 fight2 Shield Focus, WF:waraxe
04 13 07 09 fight3 CON>18, [Armor Training +1]
05 14 07 09 fight4 Weapon Specialization, Combat Expertise
06 14 07 09 fight5 [Weapon Training +1] (buy gloves of dueling)

Base AC at 5th: 10 +2(DEX) +9(plate+AT1) +1(ThD) +1(dodge) +2(shield), +1 (shield focus) = 26 *before* armor and shield upgrades or deploying Combat Expertise

From 4th onward, you're gaining 10hp/level (if doing PFS half/round method), and will be 62hp at 6th.

At 5th, your AC is 28 with +1 equipment with +2 on demand. Your move is 30 in plate, 40 if you've popped Longstrider, which of course you have.

Healing? ...that's what other poor bastards need.

Damage is mediocre for the time being. -- But who cares when you're neigh invulnerable? ...the barbarian can hit like a battleship, and sink just as fast eating easily-confirmed crits. Meanwhile, you imperviously chug along winnig battles of attrition.

The benefit here is that your character is not obviously overpowered at low-level; and eventually the GM will get tired of spite games. Then all you have to do is wait and let core fighter levels scale your bonuses.

Roleplaying: put that CHA of 5 to work playing a nasty bastard to the hilt. You pinch pennies hard enough to make them scream. If there's a bad dwarven stereotype which advocacy awareness groups everywhere are struggling to dispel, you're the reason why. As long as you don't piss off your allies, you'll be the hilarity of the table in social settings.


Play anything but call it the DMs wifes name and look like her. See if he kills you then in game .. in real life get ready to join a new group!

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