Beastmass 3: Dragon Hunt


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This thread came about as a result of the recent one on your preferred dragon slayer. In the vein of previous Beastmass challenges the goal is to defeat it using a single character.

Quote:

BEASTMASS THREE!

A new terror has come to your homeland! Incendius the Great has awoken from his centuries long sleep and now demands tribute from all of the surrounding Kingdoms on pain of fiery destruction. One has defied him and even sent intruders to his lair to destroy him. They were never seen again and over the followng week the dragon attacked every major city and port of that unlucky nation. Teleporting high above their homes while invisible he rained down 400' long walls of fire again and again until there was nothing left but ash. Now his attentions have turned to your homeland. Are you willing to take up the challenge to face him. The Dragon has slept away the last three centuries, surely heroes have risen in that time capable of destroying him and claiming his immense horde.

Quote:

Incendius makes its lair inside of an active volcano. The main chamber is warded against teleportation and divination. He has Planar Bound a number of outsider allies which have been accounted for as xp bringing the overall encounter to CR24, an epic challenge for a group of level 20 characters. I have ignored the environment in the CR calculation as nothing about it should create much in the way of difficulty for any high level character.

Environment:

The environment is obviously exceptionally hot. Lets treat is as the same level as a forest fire. As such you are taking 1d6 fire damage per round and need to make a DC15 fortitude save every round or 1d4 on lethal damage. The DC goes up by 1 every round. Wearing metal armour causes you to be affected by the heat metal spell causing you to take 0/1d4/2d4 damage per round. As the temperature doesn't decline then you will also take 2d4 fire damage per round every round from round 3. Each round everyone is at risk of catching on fire. Make a DC15 reflex save every round or take 1d6 fire damage.

The cavern is of course also filled with thick choking smoke which entirely blocks line of sight. It might also choke you. Make a DC15 fortitude save in the fist round. If you fail you spend the entire round coughing and choking. Each round the DC increase by 1. If you choke for two rounds in a row take an extra 1d6 non lethal damage. The entire cavern counts as dimly lit and is filled with flickering shadows cast by the sullen glow of the lava.

The chamber is also filled with lava. It is 300' across and 200' high. The entrance passage comes to a platform about 20' square some 40' above the level of the lava. The lava varies between 80 and 100 feet in depth. Anyone making contact with the lava takes 2d6 fire damage. Falling in causes 20d6 fire damage. Lava damage continues for 1d3 rounds after you cease contact but at half the damage.

Incendius has employed limited wish to duplicate Permanent Image spells creating the appearance of islands of rock in the lava. The entrance platform is also in actuality a narrow 5' wide bridge. The spell DC is 25.

Set Up:

Our dragon makes his lair at the bottom of the giant pool of lava. He has set up a sanctuary formed from a series of permanent Walls of Force to create an area free of lava 100' on a side and 30' high. Inside the walls he has also set up a permanent Prismatic Sphere. The Sphere contains his hoard, a number of scrolls and a planar bound Planetar. The Planetar is bound to heal his injuries and remove negative conditions using its memorised spells. The binding conditions include Resurrecting him once if he is slain following which it is free to depart (Breath of Life does not count). It has the following spells memorised:

8th — greater spell immunity, anti-magic field
7th — regenerate, resurrection, greater restoration
6th — heal (4)
5th — break enchantment, breath of life (2), life bubble
4th — death ward, neutralize poison (DC 21), cure critical wounds (2), plane shift
3rd — cure serious wounds (4), invisibility purge, sacred bond
2nd — bear's endurance (2), cure moderate wounds, shield other (2), delay poison, status
1st — bless, cure light wounds (6)
0 (at will) — detect magic, purify food and drink, stabilize, virtue

The Planetar maintains Life Bubble, Status, Delay Poison and Shield Other on Incendius at all times and heals itself as it takes his injuries. It is permitted to use the scrolls inside the Sphere if necessary. Shield Other is cast using a lesser rod of reach spell increasing the range to 260'. Delay Poison is cast using a lesser rod of extend spell. If Incendius is challenged in his lair the Planetar casts a Sacred Bond spell on him using the reach rod allowing him to cast Conjuration (healing) spells on him directly if he is within 260' (this includes breath of life). He also casts Bears Endurance on himself increasing his HP to 263. The Planetar has 20000gp worth of diamonds to use with spell casting. Inside the sanctuary he also has bound a Succubus to grant him profane gift increasing his charisma by 2.

In the chamber he has planar bound 4 Erinyes and 2 Vavakia Demons which make their lairs on the upper slopes of the chamber. They are immune to the heat effeects and are sufficiently accustomed to the smoke to not be affected by it. Their primary role is to alert him to intruders given their constant True Seeing. The Erinyes harry intruders with missile fire and at will fear while the Vavakias seek to debuff strong targets with Enervation and stun drop things into the lava.

Incendis the Great:
Great Wyrm Red Dragon CR 23

CE Colossal dragon (fire)
Init +13; Senses dragon senses, smoke vision; Perception +52
Aura fire (10 ft., 2d6 fire), frightful presence (360 ft., DC 34)

DEFENSE

AC 57, touch 10, flat-footed 56 (+1 Dex, +39 natural, -8 size, +8 armour +5 deflection +1luck +1insight)
hp 546 (29d12+3d8)

Fort +35, Ref +24, Will +32 (+3 versus mind affecting)

DR 20/magic; Immune fire, paralysis, poison, sleep; SR 33
Weaknesses Vulnerability to cold

OFFENSE

Speed 40 ft., fly 250 ft. (clumsy)

Melee bite +41 (4d8+29), 2 claws +40 (4d6+19), 2 wings +36 (2d8+10), tail slap +36 (4d6+29)

Space 30 ft.; Reach 20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)

Special Attacks breath weapon (70-ft. cone, DC 36, 24d10 fire), crush (Large creatures, DC 36, 4d6+29), incinerate, manipulate flames, melt stone, tail sweep (Medium creatures, DC 30, 2d8+29)

Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20th; concentration +31)

At will—detect magic, discern location, find the path, pyrotechnics (DC 22), suggestion (DC 23), wall of fire

Spells Known (CL 20th; concentration +31)

9th (5/day)—time stop, mage's disjunction (DC29), gate

8th (7/day)—prismatic wall, mind blank, sunburst (DC30), summon monster VIII, power word stun, greater planar binding

7th (7/day)—limited wish, plane shift (DC27), spell turning, hungry darkness (DC29)

6th (8/day)—contingency, greater dispel magic, chain lightning (DC30), anti-magic field, greater heroism

5th (8/day)—telekinesis (DC 25), teleport, wall of force, dominate person (DC25)

4th (8/day)—fear (DC24), greater invisibility, ball lightning (DC26), charm monster (DC24), scrying (DC24), dimensional anchor

3rd (8/day)—dispel magic, displacement, haste, wind wall, magic circle versus good/evil

2nd (9/day)—detect thoughts, see invisibility, resist energy, invisibility, frostfall (DC24), command undead (DC22), glitterdust (DC22), alter self

1st (9/day)—alarm, infernal healing, magic missile, shield, true strike, protection from (all)

0 (at will)—arcane mark, bleed, light, magehand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic

Indendius maintains a Contingency spell on himself at all times. If he is ever rendered incapable of acting it casts teleport on him. He generally retreats to his sanctum. He casts Mind Blank on himself every day. He carries 25,000gp of diamonds to use to cast Limited Wish and/or Gate. The entrance to the cavern is warded with a simple Alarm spell. He has See Invisibility, Tongues and Arcane Sight cast on him permanently.

STATISTICS

Str 49, Dex 12, Con 35, Int 22, Wis 29, Cha 30
Base Atk +29; CMB +56; CMD 72 (76 vs. trip)

Feats: Noble Scion of War, Widen Spell, Multiattack, Power Attack, Quicken Spell, Flyby Attack, Persistent Spell, Dazing Spell, Spell Perfection (chain lightning), Spell Focus (evocation), Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Expanded Arcanax4 (1x9th, 3x8th, 1x7th, 2x6th)

Skills: Appraise +40, Bluff +44, Diplomacy +44, Fly +16, Intimidate +43, Knowledge (arcana) +40, Knowledge (history) +40, Perception +52, Sense Motive +47, Spellcraft +40, Stealth +16, Use Magic Device +44

Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Ignan, Orc

Equipment: +6 headband of mental prowess (+6 wis/cha), +6 belt of perfection, +8 bracers of armour, +5 ring of protection, ring of freedom of movement, +5 cloak of resistance, eyes of the eagle, ioun stones (dark blue rhomboid, dusty rose prism, cracked dusty rose prism, orange prism, pale green prism), jingasa of the fortunate soldier, rod of absorption, staff of the master necromancer, stone of good luck, pages of spell knowledge (protection from good, evil, law, chaos, command undead, gitterdust, alter self, magic circle versus good/evil, scrying, dimensional anchor)

Inside the permanent Prismatic Sphere he conceals the following:

Scrolls: Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Neutralise Poison, Heal (x4), Resoration (x2), Greater Restoration (x2), Break Enchantment (x2), Cleanse (x2), Remove Sickness (x2), Greater Dispel Magic (CL20, x2), Gate, Miracle, SMIX (x2), Greater Spell Immunity, True Seeing (x2), Death Ward (x2), Invisibility Purge (x2),

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Fire Aura (Su)

An adult red dragon is surrounded by an aura of intense heat. All creatures within 5 feet take 1d6 points of fire damage at the beginning of the dragon's turn. An old dragon's aura extends to 10 feet. An ancient dragon's damage increases to 2d6.

Incinerate (Su)

A great wyrm red dragon can incinerate creatures in its fiery breath. A creature reduced to fewer than 0 hit points by its breath weapon must make a Fortitude save (using the breath weapon's DC). Failure indicates that the creature is reduced to ash. Creatures destroyed in this way can only be restored to life through true resurrection or similar magic.

Manipulate Flames (Su)

An old or older red dragon can control any fire spell within 10 feet per age category of the dragon as a standard action. This ability allows it to move any fire effect in the area, as if it were the caster. This ability also allows it to reposition a stationary fire effect, although the new placement must be one allowed by the spell. Finally, for 1 round following the use of this ability, the dragon can control any new fire spell cast within its area of control, as if it were the caster. It can make all decisions allowed to the caster, including cancelling the spell if it so desires.

Melt Stone (Su)

An ancient or older red dragon can use its breath weapon to melt rock at a range of 100 feet, affecting a 5-foot-radius area per age category. The area becomes lava to a depth of 1 foot. Any creature in contact with the lava takes 20d6 points of fire damage on the first round, 10d6 on the second, and none thereafter as the lava hardens and cools. If used on a wall or ceiling, treat this ability as an avalanche that deals fire damage.

Smoke Vision (Ex)

A very young red dragon can see perfectly in smoky conditions (such as those created by pyrotechnics).

So, we start off by assuming you know where the dragon lairs however entrance to his chamber by teleportation is blocked and information about him cannot be obtained by divinations spells. I assume you have dealt with or avoided any traps or guardians on the way and are fresh to confront him. If he has any reason to suspect combat may be imminent then he casts the following spells, in this order: Greater Heroism, Resist Energy (cold), Spell Turning, Shapechange, Shield, Mirror Image, Displacement, Haste, Resist Energy (rest). He is not averse to quickening some if needed or even casting Time Stop to get a number of them up and running as early as possible. He does not spend time buffing if confronted by a serious immediate threat but will try and get some up with quicken spell. He is not above retreating to heal and/or buff, generally to his Prismatic Sphere. He assumes anyone willing and able to confront him in his sanctum is dangerous. He normally avoids the use of anti-magic field as it cannot completely protect him given its size. He can Widen it if necessary but also avoids this unless it is obviously needed due to the impact on his other stats.

So, what is the lowest level at which you can defeat him on your own.


So, I just realized that the Orc Bloodline Power Of Giants can be activated while you are under a "polymorph" effect.

This being the relevant line in the rules:

Quote:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

and power of giants is:

Quote:
Power of Giants (Sp): At 15th level, you may grow to Large size as a standard action. At this size you gain a +6 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to Constitution, and a +4 natural armor bonus. You may return to your normal size as a standard action. You may remain in this size for up to 1 minute per character level per day; this duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.

A supernatural ability and not a polymorph spell.

Well and good,

7d8 base damage -> 14d8 (Strong Jaw) -> 21d8 (Power of Giants) -> 84d8 (Greater Vital Strike) -> 672 damage (Maximized with Furious Finish) + miscellany like strength, enhancement e.t.c., so closer to 700, really

So basic strategy?

1. Buff Up
2. Earth Elemental Form with Tremorsense (Cave Druid/Cave Domain)
3. Earthglide to right under Incendius.
4. Swift-change into Carnivorous Crystal and shout name of Finishing Move
5. Deal 672+ damage which is enough to gib the Planetar and Incendius
6. Fight off horde of whatever else.
7. Bow to dying Planetar and utter apologies before walking off into sunset.

prototype00


How are you getting through the Wall of Force which is a giant box?


Ah, my mistake, I had assumed it was open to the ground on the bottom. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.

prototype00


He isn't going to leave quite such a critical hole in his defences! He should probably do something about his cold vulnerability which is a glaring hole. I would have liked to give him a ring of evasion but he didn't have space.


Hmm, actually it occurs to me that Wall of Force must ordinarily be cast as a vertical wall only. He has probably created it with a Wish scroll instead. In any event, a big force box shouldn't be an issue. If it is he swaps out hungry darkness and takes magnificent mansion and sleeps in that.


So some form of teleportation to get in? But that uses up valuable surprise round time. (Otherwise I would have just suggested a tattooed cape of the mountebank)

Though you could start off ethereal, using a spectral shroud (since the true-seers are up on the upper slopes), burrow in (using earthglide to enter via the lower slopes), teleport into the cube of force using the aforesaid, and then carry out the plan.

Bonus points if the finishing move name is Shoryuken.

prototype00

Edit: On a whim, I went to see if the souped up Conqueror Ooze can one hit TKO Cthulhu, but alas no (774HP), but close. Another 3 or 4 splats and we should be able to.


As noted at the start his lair is warded to prevent teleportation or divination. Naturally it doesn't affect him, although I appreciate that is pure fiat.


Ah, so some form of spell breaking or somesuch is required? I had thought that only "entrance" to his lair is warded from teleportation and divination (since I've already entered via earthglide).

But if all divination and teleportation is barred in the lair itself, well that is a different kettle of fish. If there are things in here that out and out flaunt the rules, a character built using the rules will be hard pressed to overcome them.

Still, close eh? The conqueror ooze will probably one hit TKO him the moment he shows up at his next target.

prototype00


prototype00 wrote:

1. Buff Up

2. Earth Elemental Form with Tremorsense (Cave Druid/Cave Domain)
3. Earthglide to right under Incendius.
4. Swift-change into Carnivorous Crystal and shout name of Finishing Move
5. Deal 672+ damage which is enough to gib the Planetar and Incendius
6. Fight off horde of whatever else.
7. Bow to dying Planetar and utter apologies before walking off into sunset.

Leaving aside the whole wall of force thing this does have a problem in that oozes cannot earth glide so as soon as you wild shape well I am not entirely sure what happens. I suspect something bad. You could use the earth elemental burrow but he would definitely get a perception check of some sort to notice your approach. In fact he might anyway even with earth glide. It would be at substantial penalties equivalent to those for hearing stuff through a wall (+10/foot of thickness) but he might catch wind of you.


The ooze certainly has the best chance of getting the one hit kill. Identifying his next target is tricky as divinations wont tell you. You only find out when whole sections of a city start to catch on fire.


While Ethereal? This is an impressive Beast!

Actually while being Ethereal, I don't actually have to Earthglide, so no problem showing up in ooze form then.

prototype00


prototype00 wrote:
But if all divination and teleportation is barred in the lair itself, well that is a different kettle of fish. If there are things in here that out and out flaunt the rules, a character built using the rules will be hard pressed to overcome them.

I wouldn't say that it entirely flouts the rules. We are looking at a slight variant on a combined forbiddance and private sanctum effect for a creature capable of casting wish/miracle on the home base of the equivalent to a campaign end boss encounter. To be honest anyone pretending to the title of BBEG needs something similar to have any chance at all of surviving long term.


prototype00 wrote:

While Ethereal? This is an impressive Beast!

Actually while being Ethereal, I don't actually have to Earthglide, so no problem showing up in ooze form then.

prototype00

I missed the ethereal bit. Of course he has permanent see invisibility which allows you to see ethereal creatures and you cannot pass the wall of force. You could break through the wall, it only has hardness 30 and 400hp but that definitely alerts him.


Do we have any limitation in this beastmass? Like 25 points builds?


So really, it comes down to having an ability that breaks walls of force instantaneously (since teleportation is out of the question), which I don't think (IIRC) actually exists in RAW Pathfinder.

Otherwise Incendius can just teleport away, since his House-Ruled lair prohibitions don't apply to him.

Fair enough, Andreww, I concede. I shall take my 672+ damage and find other less fiat-ed characters to defeat (like 10 Tarrasques, say).

prototype00


Normal Beastmass limitations. 20 point buy, no 3rd party material, standard WBL. Crafting feats give you a 25% increase in WBL following the UC rules. No items other than those printed in a published book.


prototype00 wrote:

So really, it comes down to having an ability that breaks walls of force instantaneously (since teleportation is out of the question), which I don't think (IIRC) actually exists in RAW Pathfinder.

Otherwise Incendius can just teleport away, since his House-Ruled lair prohibitions don't apply to him.

Fair enough, Andreww, I concede. I shall take my 672+ damage and find other less fiat-ed characters to defeat (like 10 Tarrasques, say).

prototype00

Fiat or not your first attack does not actually kill him. Shield Other halves the damage and applies half to the Planetar which is killed outright. Incendius takes 386+ damage and is still alive. He probably retreats to heal and buff or casts widened disjunction to strip you of your buffs and drops several hundred tonnes of burning magma on both of you. You need to deal 1096 damage to KO him in a single attack.


Ah, Incendius also has more HP than a traditional Great Wyrm Red (though I had miscalculated 449 HP is still a tad too much for the Conqueror Ooze as well).

As I said, fair enough, the DM has the upper hand in this case. I am thankful about the realization about Power of Giants, though, that has nice applications.

prototype00


He is wearing a +6 belt of physical perfection giving him 3xHD extra HP.


Is Incendius controlling the good maintainance of his liar system? I mean, if somebody tries to search any kind of vulnerabilities, is he going to find at least one? If not, could he create one without being noticed?

I apologize now for my futures english errors, I'm italian so, well, Italy isn't a good place where to study.


I suppose it would depend on what you are looking for. He has been asleep for the last three hundred years so as yet does not have any sort of network of spies or agents. He is probably starting to send out planar bound agents to gather intelligence for him but if you are cautious you can probably do so. Creating a vulnerability is more difficult as it involves coming quite close to him so he might detect you but it would be possible.

Grand Lodge

Then could not the Earth-glider break through the bottom wall in the lair without being noticed? I mean he is asleep for 1, and nothing tells you if the Wall of force is broken? At least nothing I have seen in your scenario/lair. I see the normal alarm for entry, True seer creatures if someone walks in. But He isn't walking in...He is in the earth gliding under them all. True seeing can not see through the rocks.

So lets see...He breaks the bottom Wall of force...No permanency alarm spell to go off for the broken wall.(at least by scenario) He Gets the first attack....It kills the planetar outright and pretty much halves the Dragon.

2nd round...Roll for initiatives...IF the dragon looses Initiative it is dead.


That assumes he is asleep and that the noise/reverberation from hitting a wall of force for 600 damage doesn't wake him up. But yes if you catch him napping it would be an option but is far from guaranteed.

So in the realm of potential victors we have earth gliding carnivorous ooze cave druids. Anyone else?


andreww wrote:
That assumes he is asleep and that the noise/reverberation from hitting a wall of force for 600 damage doesn't wake him up. But yes if you catch him napping it would be an option.

Silence spell? All the cool dragon assassins have it.

prototype00

Edit: The main problem with a frontal assault is that if Incendius wants to escape he can, but you can't due to a House Ruled prohibition against teleportation that doesn't apply equally within the area.

Granted he could decide to cast the disjunction, in which case anyone would be screwed. But if he was subject to the same prohibition against teleportation, I feel there might be a chance at getting a second hit in, y'know?

*P.s. If I am a Great Wyrm Red and someone hits me for 600+ points of damage (enough to TKO Treerazer, I might add), I'm not sticking around to see if disjunction works against him. That might be a demigod who has decided to kick my ass. Better run and marshal my resources again*


prototype00 wrote:
andreww wrote:
That assumes he is asleep and that the noise/reverberation from hitting a wall of force for 600 damage doesn't wake him up. But yes if you catch him napping it would be an option.

Silence spell? All the cool dragon assassins have it.

prototype00

Sure, that would deal with the noise, not so sure it covers the sheer force of the impact and any relatively minor disruption caused by the shifting of the coinage on which he sleeps. You are relying on him being asleep but his base perception is +52 which is reduced to an effective +42.


And you took the feat that lets him use cha instead of dex for initiative (which story wise requires you to belong to a noble Inner Sea Family)! This Incendius truly is a unique member of his species! (Normal Great Wyrm Reds *if there is such a thing* have a +2 init).

prototype00


I built him like I would a PC. He is mostly on his own, if he stands any chance at all against monsters like carnivorous ooze druids he needs every advantage he can get. He has the +1 initiative ioun stone too! :)

Also in terms of feat names which might be appropriate for a dragon Noble Scion of War must count surely. He has a long and storied history and is almost certainly the progenitor of an inner sea noble family which counts many draconic sorcerers in its midst.


A Foresight Diviner with a heavy focus on Conjuration (CL 30, DC 46+ for 9th lvl spells) uses Planeshift to bring herself to a plane that Incendis is not on. She then begins using Gate to Call "red dragon" and then kills it (how is the easy part).

She does this every day (sometimes multiple times a day depending on the dragons that appear) until the only red dragon left in the world is Incendis. Then, she buffs herself a bit and casts Gate one more time. Incendis fails the save half the time (more if I spend some time on this) and comes walking through the Gate.

Insert favored spell for killing dragons here.

:)

Liberty's Edge

Some early thoughts on this:
1. Incendius cannot take all of the Expanded arcana feats you've given him. Specifically, he cannot take more than one of the level 8s, because he'd only gain access to that as his second-to-last feat.
2. The planetar is inside the prismatic sphere, and thus cannot have shield other active, as the sphere will block line of effect for the spell. Likewise for other spells. And the planetar can't cast through the sphere, or get out of it to cast without being affected by it.
3. You've given Incendius both a rod of absorption and a Staff of the Master. If he's holding both, he doesn't have a way of performing somatic components. Maybe invest in a glove of storing?

Grand Lodge

7heprofessor has a very good strategy as well. That gets completely around the lair and the magical items in the lair.

If you Gate him into the right plane you could defiantly use the Plane to your advantage. You might have to gate him back a few times because of his Plane shift but hey your going for the total elimination of Red dragons doesn't matter which one answers the call your bound to call him back for round 2 when he is the last red dragon in existence.


7heprofessor wrote:

A Foresight Diviner with a heavy focus on Conjuration (CL 30, DC 46+ for 9th lvl spells) uses Planeshift to bring herself to a plane that Incendis is not on. She then begins using Gate to Call "red dragon" and then kills it (how is the easy part).

She does this every day (sometimes multiple times a day depending on the dragons that appear) until the only red dragon left in the world is Incendis. Then, she buffs herself a bit and casts Gate one more time. Incendis fails the save half the time (more if I spend some time on this) and comes walking through the Gate.

Insert favored spell for killing dragons here.

:)

Interesting

Note that Gate has no saving throw and no SR when used to call
Quote:
If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual, you may call either a single creature or several creatures. In either case, their total HD cannot exceed twice your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD does not exceed your caster level. A creature with more HD than your caster level can't be controlled. Deities and unique beings cannot be controlled in any event. An uncontrolled being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An uncontrolled being may return to its home plane at any time.

Incendis looks to be 29 HD and therefore free to go when he wishes and act as he likes. Still you get to choose the time and place to fight.

Oops missed the effectively CL 30 on your conjurer. Makes my next sentiment even more important, but completely a home campaign ruling as well.

The only catch I might toss at you is to warn you that Great Wyrms of Incendis' stature might tend to fall under the category of "unique being" and therefore be free to ignore the call. Put another way there are Red Dragons and there is Smaug. But that's a campaign specific sort of thing.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

7heprofessor has a very good strategy as well. That gets completely around the lair and the magical items in the lair.

If you Gate him into the right plane you could defiantly use the Plane to your advantage. You might have to gate him back a few times because of his Plane shift but hey your going for the total elimination of Red dragons doesn't matter which one answers the call your bound to call him back for round 2 when he is the last red dragon in existence.

I've learned my lesson the hard way that you NEVER give a Dragon home-field advantage! :)

Kayerloth wrote:

The only catch I might toss at you is to warn you that Great Wyrms of Incendis' stature might tend to fall under the category of "unique being" and therefore be free to ignore the call. Put another way there are Red Dragons and there is Smaug. But that's a campaign specific sort of thing.

Yeah, there's already enough DM fiat going on with the I-can-teleport-but-you-can't thing (which I'm fine with). To include a campaign-specific ruling like this begs the question of how many more will crop up?

Either way...just my 2 cp


7heprofessor wrote:

A Foresight Diviner with a heavy focus on Conjuration (CL 30, DC 46+ for 9th lvl spells) uses Planeshift to bring herself to a plane that Incendis is not on. She then begins using Gate to Call "red dragon" and then kills it (how is the easy part).

She does this every day (sometimes multiple times a day depending on the dragons that appear) until the only red dragon left in the world is Incendis. Then, she buffs herself a bit and casts Gate one more time. Incendis fails the save half the time (more if I spend some time on this) and comes walking through the Gate.

Insert favored spell for killing dragons here.

:)

I am not sure how you get to DC 46. The best I can get abusing spell perfection and stat boosts looks something like:

Casting stat: 20 base +5levels +5inherent +2age +6enhancement +4profane from lilitu for a 42.

Spell DC then is: 10base +16stat +2feat (spell focus/greater spell focus) +2 doubling spell focus (spell perfection) +9level +2arcane bloodline school power for a 41. Of course Gate doesn't allow a save in any event so this pulls him out of his lair and controls him if you can reach Caster Level 30. That is harder than it looks. You have:

Base 20 +1orange ioun stone +2spell specialisation +1varisian tattoo +3spell perfection doubling. After that you are looking at things like a trait for +1 maybe or using a Prayer Bead of Karms which requires you to either be a Cleric/Oracle or invest in UMD.

As things stand getting everything is extremely feat intensive. You are looking at:

Varisian Tattoo
Spell Focus
Greater Spell Focus
Spell Specialisation
3 metamagic feats
Spell Perfection

So 8 of your 10 available feats which is a lot for a Cleric or Oracle which doesn't get many or even any bonus feats. On the plus side they are all decent feat choices for a summon/conjuration focused character.

I would not treat Incendius as a unique being. Demon Lords and Arch Devils are unique beings, Incendius is just a very large, old and powerful dragon. Of course that also exposes one of the issues with high level spells, no save control from Gate is something high level characters would have to figure into their protections. Personally in a home game I would almost certainly simply houserule Gate. Alternatively it is possible that the Rod of Absorption absorbs the Gate spell as a single target spell affecting him, assuming it is in hand. It also immediately alerts him. The third option would be to give him Arodens Spellbane and pick Gate as one of the barred spells.

There is another way to get him out of his lair which involves casting boosted Demand spells to suggest that he teleport to a particular location where you lay an ambush for him.


DeathSpot wrote:

Some early thoughts on this:

1. Incendius cannot take all of the Expanded arcana feats you've given him. Specifically, he cannot take more than one of the level 8s, because he'd only gain access to that as his second-to-last feat.

He will initially take lower level spells and then retrain the feats to get newer higher level ones.

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2. The planetar is inside the prismatic sphere, and thus cannot have shield other active, as the sphere will block line of effect for the spell. Likewise for other spells. And the planetar can't cast through the sphere, or get out of it to cast without being affected by it.

You only need line of effect when you cast the spell which is not an issue.

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3. You've given Incendius both a rod of absorption and a Staff of the Master. If he's holding both, he doesn't have a way of performing somatic components. Maybe invest in a glove of storing?

He arguably has 4 limbs capable of carrying things. It may look a little awkward but it seems possible but the Glove of Storing is a much better idea.


I wonder if there is some way to abuse Leadership into getting enough followers to force army scale combat and change its stat block to something manageable. Forcing the dragon into mass combat and then fielding multiple big armies against it could be a nice way to go. Of course you can still have your character devoted to some super casting build to counter the dragons magic, or try to one shot it or whatever other strong build you want.


Make sure the dragon know hownych loot "I" carry, and make him come to me...

20 5th lv. Wizards with baleful pokymorph readied... Statisticly he'll miss 1 save.


Bacon666 wrote:

Make sure the dragon know hownych loot "I" carry, and make him come to me...

20 5th lv. Wizards with baleful polymorph readied... Statisticly he'll miss 1 save.

Baleful Polymorph requires level 9 wizards. Each needs to roll a 20 to beat his SR then he needs to roll a 1 to fail the save so 20 of them wont quite be enough...:)


A Summoner with Craft Wand and Leadership could probably make enough wands of Baleful Polymorph to pull it off, but getting line of effect to the dragon in the first place remains a problem.

Grand Lodge

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. Personally in a home game I would almost certainly simply houserule Gate.

so are you going to be satisfied with only a build that can walk in to his lair and straight up fight him?

You have already house ruled in a wished up 2x Horizontal wall of force.
Only he can teleport.

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You could break through the wall, it only has hardness 30 and 400hp but that definitely alerts him.

Even tho the spell or scenario you gave doesn't say how he is alerted.

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He arguably has 4 limbs capable of carrying things.

You carry something like a staff of master or rod of absorption on your feet and see if you can use it combat. He can use 2 in his hand but if he has 2 in his hands he can not cast somatic spells while his hands are holding things.

Quote:
The planetar is inside the prismatic sphere, and thus cannot have shield other active, as the sphere will block line of effect for the spell. Likewise for other spells. And the planetar can't cast through the sphere, or get out of it to cast without being affected by it.

THis is a true statement. If he is bound inside the sphere he can't see the dragon unless daily the dragon goes inside the sphere to be buffed.

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I built him like I would a PC.

You don't typically build monsters like PC.

Seems to me this challenge is DM fiat-ed to hell and back and unless we offer a build that goes head first (suicidal) and can kill him in his crazy lair then the OP won't be happy.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Quote:
. Personally in a home game I would almost certainly simply houserule Gate.
so are you going to be satisfied with only a build that can walk in to his lair and straight up fight him?

Not at all. We already have two ways in which he could be defeated. The carnivorous ooze has a chance although it has issues about switching to ooze form while earth gliding. Gate does it but is serious cheese.

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Even tho the spell or scenario you gave doesn't say how he is alerted.

If you hit a wall for over 600hp damage in a single blow I am going to give someone a chance to notice the change in situation.

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THis is a true statement. If he is bound inside the sphere he can't see the dragon unless daily the dragon goes inside the sphere to be buffed.

This is a rather trivial complaint. It is easy for the dragon to enter the sphere to be buffed.

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You don't typically build monsters like PC.

Most monsters no, an end boss designed to face an entire group of level 20 characters then I definitely do as I would like him to last more than a round.

Quote:
Seems to me this challenge is DM fiat-ed to hell and back and unless we offer a build that goes head first (suicidal) and can kill him in his crazy lair then the OP won't be happy.

Head to head is clearly extremely difficult but far from being impossible.


andreww wrote:

I am not sure how you get to DC 46. The best I can get abusing spell perfection and stat boosts looks something like:

Casting stat: 20 base +5levels +5inherent +2age +6enhancement +4profane from lilitu for a 42.

Spell DC then is: 10base +16stat +2feat (spell focus/greater spell focus) +2 doubling spell focus (spell perfection) +9level +2arcane bloodline school power for a 41. Of course Gate doesn't allow a save in any event so this pulls him out of his lair and controls him if you can reach Caster Level 30. That is harder than it looks. You have:

Base 20 +1orange ioun stone +2spell specialisation +1varisian tattoo +3spell perfection doubling. After that you are looking at things like a trait for +1 maybe or using a Prayer Bead of Karms which requires you to either be a Cleric/Oracle or invest in UMD.

As things stand getting everything is extremely feat intensive. You are looking at:

Varisian Tattoo
Spell Focus
Greater Spell Focus
Spell Specialisation
3 metamagic feats
Spell Perfection

So 8 of your 10 available feats which is a lot for a Cleric or Oracle which doesn't get many or even any bonus feats. On the plus side they are all decent feat choices for a summon/conjuration focused character.

I would not treat Incendius as a unique being. Demon Lords and Arch Devils are unique beings, Incendius is just a very large, old...

Race: Tiefling with Variant racial trait #46 (+2 additional Intelligence)

18 base +4 racial +3 age +5 lvls +5 tome +4 liltu demon +6 headband = 45 (+17)

Build: Foresight Diviner 19/Loremaster 1

Traits:

Gifted Adept (Mass Suffocation)

Skills:

Use Magic Device 20 ranks +3 class skill = auto-succeed at Activate Wand and Emulate Class Feature (divine spells)

Feats:

1. Fiendish Heritage
1. Spell Focus: Conjuration [wizard bonus - swap scribe scroll]
3. Skill Focus: Knowledge (arcana)
5. Spell Focus: Necromancy [wizard bonus]
5. Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline)
7. Varisian Tattoo (Conjuration)
9. Bloatmage Initiate (Necromancy)
10. Quicken Spell [Wizard bonus]
11. Improved Eldritch Heritage (arcane)
13. Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
15. Metamagic Feat of choice
15. Metamagic Feat of choice [Wizard bonus]
17. Greater Eldritch Heritage (arcane, Necromancy school)
19. Spell Perfection (Gate)
20. Spell Perfection (Mass Suffocation)[Loremaster bonus]

Gear:

Tome of Clear Thought +5 (137,500)
Orange prism Ioun stone (30,000)
Prayer bead of karma (20,000)
headband of int +6 (36,000)
Moon Circlet (20,000)
Robe of the Archmagi (75,000)
Wand of Death Knell (4,500)
Chicken (1)

Gate caster level:

20 lvls +1 orange ioun stone +4 bead of karma +2 moon circlet +1 death knell +1 varisian tattoo +1 spell perfection = 30

Mass Suffocation caster level:

20 lvls +1 ioun stone +4 bead of karma +2 moon circlet +1 Death Knell +1 gifted adept +1 bloatmage initiate +1 spell perfection = 31

(+2 to overcome spell resistance thanks to Robe of Archmagi= auto-succeed)

Mass Suffocation spell save DC:

10 +9 spell level +17 Int + 2 Greater Spell Focus +2 Spell Perfection +2 Arcane Bloodline power +7 Limited Wish = 49

Mr. Dagron fails on a 13 or less.

*Special thanks to The Vacuum created by Jehova*


Aah, you were including limited wish.


andreww wrote:
Aah, you were including limited wish.

Correct, using this awesome line from the spell description:

"Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -7 penalty on its next saving throw."

As far as I can tell, Dagron doesn't even need to be present to make this Wish affect him, no save, no SR.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
Most monsters no, an end boss designed to face an entire group of level 20 characters then I definitely do as I would like him to last more than a round.

You did not say we had a entire party of level 20 characters here is what YOU said:

andreww wrote:
So, what is the lowest level at which you can defeat him on your own.
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Gate does it but is serious cheese.

To defeat this thing on our own be prepared to smell some stinky cheese because the cheese coming from the single person challenge is just as stinky.


Yes indeed. However Incendius wont be affected by Mass Suffocation due to his Rod of Absorption. The boosted caster level Gate still works of course but is pure cheese..:)


Can we just destroy his lair and laugh as he has to spend money to rebuild and we just have to cast Earthquake to destroy? Why do we have to fight him in his Forcecage anyway?


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Quote:
Most monsters no, an end boss designed to face an entire group of level 20 characters then I definitely do as I would like him to last more than a round.

You did not say we had a entire party of level 20 characters here is what YOU said:

andreww wrote:
So, what is the lowest level at which you can defeat him on your own.

That is the nature of the Beastmass Challenges. Can you face situations which are supposed to be dealt with by an entire group on your own. Go ahead and have a look at the first two. The first involved fighting six CR20+ monsters in a row with no chance of resting in between. The second calls on you to complete an entire high level module on your own.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
Can we just destroy his lair and laugh as he has to spend money to rebuild and we just have to cast Earthquake to destroy? Why do we have to fight him in his Forcecage anyway?

It is totally an option although Earthquake does have a relatively small area of effect so you may need a few castings. Adding some planar bound elder earth elementals to help collapse the mountain would also be a good idea. That would almost certainly bring him outside into a straight up fight but he will arrive fully buffed, invisible and mind banked.


That explains why I never paid too much attention to them. I like solutions other than head on fights, and this calls for a head on fight to be soloed. Carry on.

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