Order of the Star & other archetype questions


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

If a Samurai follows the Order of the Star, they add 1/2 their Samurai level to any levels of paladin or cleric "for the purposes of determining the effects of channel energy or lay on hands."

If a character takes a Cleric archetype that substitutes something else for channel energy that scales similarly would you let that Samurai gain the use of it as if it was channel energy?

The issue in question;
A Samurai 8/Cleric 1 with Order of the Star adds half their Samurai levels (4) to their Cleric levels (1) and Channels energy as if they a Level 5 Cleric, or 3d6. Correct?

If a Samurai 8 takes a level in Ultimate Combat's Cleric archetype Divine Strategist, would you let them gain the benefit of the Master Tactician ability as if they were a Level 5 Divine Strategist, since it replaces Channel Energy and thus the Order of the Star's benefit would otherwise go to waste? Specifically, where it says "in addition, the divine strategist gains a bonus on initiative checks equal to 1/2 her cleric level." Would you let that Samurai have a +2 bonus (1/2 of 5) to initiative checks as a Level 5 Divine Strategist would?

A similar issue;
This came up in a game I was a player in. One of the other players was playing a Vivisectionist, a Alchemist archetype that (among other things) replaces bombs with sneak attack, die for die. When the Alchemist would normally have a 5d6 bomb, a Vivisectionist instead has +5d6 sneak attack.

He prestige'd into Master Chymist. The Master Chymist, at level 1, has Bomb-Thrower, where you "add the character’s alchemist and master chymist levels together to determine the damage done by her bombs." This brought up the question of if he continued to gain sneak attack dice. He didn't even have bombs anymore, so Bomb-Thrower would be pointless unless he wanted to start throwing bombs as a level 1 Alchemist even though was already level 9, but Master Chymist certainly didn't grant sneak attack. So what now?

Do you see how these are related? What would you do in these two particular instances?


RAW in these cases is no

However outside of PFS a GM would probably be fine with certain things like the ones you mention stacking as if they worked for the replaced ability

Not exactly the same issue but...there was a problem similar to this when people wanted to use the duelists gloves (the ones that give bonus to those who have "Weapon Training" as a class feature) with an archetype that works generally the same as "Weapon Training" but was worded differently.

I believe there was a quote by one of the devs about that but I have had no luck searching my link stash finding it.


If an arcbetype looses a class feature they no longer habe it. Justdont take that archetype.

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