A level 4 Human Paladin can Raise Dead for Free?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

I just saw Ultimate Mercy (feat) and I can't believe my eyes. Are there any rules against having another player cast Raise Dead on your character? What if he wasn't using that character at your game? What if he didn't play at your table? What if you just call him on the phone? : )

Are there any restrictions? I mean, free rez.....


I don't see how you could pull it off at level 4, since feats come at odd levels and 10 uses would be nearly impossible at that point.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, there's all he same restrictions you need to deal with when casting raise dead normally, aside from the material component, and in order to use it you need to burn through 10 uses of lay on hands, which isn't possible at level 4 unless you somehow manage to get a paladin that low up to 26 charisma. Technically, you shouldn't be able to take Greater Mercy until you get your first mercy, and Ultimate on the following feat level too, but... whatever GM is going to let you get away with cranking your cha that high that early would probably wave that too.

Otherwise though, yeah, it's an astoundingly handy feat.

Liberty's Edge

Extra Lay on Hands helps...

Let's see. Starting Cha 20, +2 Item for a 22. 4th level...that's 8 right there. Extra Lay on Hands makes it 10 and doable. Greater Mercy can't be taken till 3rd level, though, which makes 5th the actual minimum.

Still, that does work, and is pretty powerful at that level. Of course that's a very specific build. Something like 8th or 9th level is much more likely. It remains an awesome Feat...but I'm really not seeing a problem here.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Extra Lay on Hands helps...

Let's see. Starting Cha 20, +2 Item for a 22. 4th level...that's 8 right there. Extra Lay on Hands makes it 10 and doable. Greater Mercy can't be taken till 3rd level, though, which makes 5th the actual minimum.

Still, that does work, and is pretty powerful at that level. Of course that's a very specific build. Something like 8th or 9th level is much more likely. It remains an awesome Feat...but I'm really not seeing a problem here.

I don't think five is the minimum, I believe it's 7. Extra Lay on Hands requires that you have lay on hands, which you don't get until second level. So that takes up your level 3 feat. Then Greater Mercy at five and Ultimate Mercy at 7, right?


Retraining.

Can be done at level 4.

Liberty's Edge

Corodix wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Extra Lay on Hands helps...

Let's see. Starting Cha 20, +2 Item for a 22. 4th level...that's 8 right there. Extra Lay on Hands makes it 10 and doable. Greater Mercy can't be taken till 3rd level, though, which makes 5th the actual minimum.

Still, that does work, and is pretty powerful at that level. Of course that's a very specific build. Something like 8th or 9th level is much more likely. It remains an awesome Feat...but I'm really not seeing a problem here.

I don't think five is the minimum, I believe it's 7. Extra Lay on Hands requires that you have lay on hands, which you don't get until second level. So that takes up your level 3 feat. Then Greater Mercy at five and Ultimate Mercy at 7, right?

Ah! You're right. Totally forgot to consider you'd also need to be 3rd for Lay on Hands (well, 2nd, but you don't get a Feat then). But...

Remy Balster wrote:

Retraining.

Can be done at level 4.

Assuming retraining is allowed, this is doable, yeah. It's not always, especially for stuff like this. And even then, you need a Headband of Charisma which is far from a given at that level.

Scarab Sages

Even with retraining, you still need to be eligible to pick the feats at the correct level.


Snorter wrote:
Even with retraining, you still need to be eligible to pick the feats at the correct level.

No you do not.

FAQ wrote:

Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.

For example, if you are a 3rd-level rogue who took Improved Initiative at 1st level, you can retrain that feat and replace it with Weapon Focus. Even though Weapon Focus has a prerequisite of "base attack bonus +1" (which means you couldn't take it as a 1st-level rogue), it is a valid feat for your current level (3rd), and is therefore a valid choice for retraining. (Note: Likewise, the fighter class ability to retrain fighter bonus feats does not require you to meet all of the new feat's prerequisites at the level you originally gained the feat.)


So technically doable on lvl 4... But the restoration to get rid of the 2 negative levels are going to be expensive at that level.

Liberty's Edge

Lifat wrote:
So technically doable on lvl 4... But the restoration to get rid of the 2 negative levels are going to be expensive at that level.

True.

Personally, I wouldn't allow retraining to grab this, making the minimum level 7 again. At that level Druids can reincarnate, so I have no problem with a Paladin who's invested three Feats into it being able to Raise Dead.


eh. If people want to use all their feats on this trick and retrain and all to get early access to this ability I'd let them. But those 2k for restoration is going to be a very big chunk of their cash at that level.
Besides... The dead guy is also going to have a minimum of 1 negative level for a week. (You have to wait a week in between restorations)... I had a character that got raised quite a lot using this specific feat. (although it was at a higher level)

Scarab Sages

Retrain your first 2 feats at level 2 and 3, one of which being extra lays, and take the third at level 3 = 10 PP + 250 GP. At level 4 make your charisma a 20 from 19 and get the headband 4000 GP. 10. Completely doable at level 4 as the earliest level.

My real question is who can you raise at that point? I don't think you can raise one of your other character that dies later, because you can't play 2 of your characters at once. The 1 day per caster level is hard to enforce in PFS since time does not really move on after you finish playing. Obviously raising one of your fallen party members is the one that should not be a problem. But how can you role play those 4 (+) days that you have to res just about anybody else.

Getting raised at level 1 is a cool story to me.


Vincent The Dark wrote:

Retrain your first 2 feats at level 2 and 3, one of which being extra lays, and take the third at level 3 = 10 PP + 250 GP. At level 4 make your charisma a 20 from 19 and get the headband 4000 GP. 10. Completely doable at level 4 as the earliest level.

My real question is who can you raise at that point? I don't think you can raise one of your other character that dies later, because you can't play 2 of your characters at once. The 1 day per caster level is hard to enforce in PFS since time does not really move on after you finish playing. Obviously raising one of your fallen party members is the one that should not be a problem. But how can you role play those 4 (+) days that you have to res just about anybody else.

Getting raised at level 1 is a cool story to me.

... HUH???? oO?

The paladin can raise a person from the dead using the feat. Usually you'd use it on a party member, but if you want to break the economy you could run around and demand money for it. I guess the reason I don't really understand the question is because of my limited PFS experience.

Scarab Sages

You can't ask for money from other players in PFS and a GM has to initial the conditions gained, like the negative levels or death.

Some people wanna be fighters, others wizards, some want to be more helpful to others. I would play this paladin to feel more like a paladin.

Even if we forget about the paladin and think of a level 9 cleric with a wand of blood money and a rank in use magic device, that guy can res within 9 days, for free (1 charge), and remove his ability damage, multiple times a day. It is more likely I would make that character, but if somebody has the paladin and helps his friends, I would not be on his bad side, lol.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Vincent The Dark wrote:
cleric with a wand of blood money and a rank in use magic device, that guy can res within 9 days

Actually, never. The casting time for Blood Money from a wand is a Standard action.

He would also need a Quicken Wand for 5th level spells to do what you suggest.

Scarab Sages

James Risner wrote:

He would also need a Quicken Wand for 5th level spells to do what you suggest.

You are right, so a level of a class that casts that spell then instead of the wand, level 10 character, sure.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / A level 4 Human Paladin can Raise Dead for Free? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.