Best uses for bluff.


Advice


Bluff is a great skill. It can be used to feint, pass secret messages, or even convince people that you are the moon (He is the moon!).

I'm starting in a game soon and my character's rocking a respectable 15 bluff at first level, with options to bring that up even higher through magic if called upon. So, what are some creative ways to use it? Suggestions, both practical and goofy, are wanted!


If you have to get inside a guarded building, throw a rock to the left, roll a bluff. Get it high enough, and the guards might investigate. Entrance.

My favorite use of bluff: In one campaign, we were fighting giants. One took a few swings at the party rogue. The rogue points and shouts. "Does that kid on that beanstalk have a golden egg?!?" Rolled a bluff of 40. That giant hallucinated he believed it so hard.

Shadow Lodge

1:Walk into Bank
2:Scream out "A Dragon has just burned down City Hall!".
3:Wait for everyone to run out, panicing.
4:Empty the bank vault's contents and leave town quickly.
5:Find new town.
6:Rinse.
7:Repeat.


A character of mine was a synth summoner. He used bluff to claim that his spells were divine and that his eidolon was him channeling the aspect of his god.

By the end of the campaign, he was the king of the land, and everyone believed in this made-up deity (this was a low-magic, non golarion campaign, of course).


Master of the Dark Triad wrote:

A character of mine was a synth summoner. He used bluff to claim that his spells were divine and that his eidolon was him channeling the aspect of his god.

By the end of the campaign, he was the king of the land, and everyone believed in this made-up deity (this was a low-magic, non golarion campaign, of course).

I was just pondering something similar yesterday... go biped base form and manifest as some sort of blazing angelic figure... and take Fast Healing plus the Sacrifice evolution for infinite healing for the masses. Be immune to like every energy type and take skilled for bluff. Maybe pick up Leadership at some point. False messiah supreme, true leader of men.

Also Power of Suggestion. I love this trait so much. The DC starts so low that if you focus bluff you can easily convince someone any object is anything.

"Sir, this is formal dress only."
"Yes I am aware."
"Sir, you are wearing a necklace made of bloody human ears and wielding a cleaver."
"No my good man, this is my formal wear."
"Ah, I apologize sir, please come in."

And this conversation happens once a minute, every minute the entire time you are at the party until eventually everyone just feels too embarrassed to bring it up anymore after being "mistaken" so many times. It really has an emperor's-new-clothes feel to it.

EDIT: Linguistics for forgeries is also something that seems to get forgotten about a lot. NPCs need ranks in linguistics to even try to detect your forgery and you get a massive bonus for simply having seen a correct version of the type of document. You can easily manufacture some "convincing proof" for up to a +10 to your bluff. Forge a registered letter from the gods and having couple party members go "it's true I seen it!" and it seems you may have just negated half of the negatives for claiming the impossible, i.e. "I AM THE MOON."

Scarab Sages

So...Walk around naked and when people point at you tell that that only fools fail to see my splendid raiment! For I am the emperor!


PSusac wrote:
So...Walk around naked and when people point at you tell that that only fools fail to see my splendid raiment! For I am the emperor!

To be fair, there is probably a magic item that works just like that.


FuelDrop wrote:
PSusac wrote:
So...Walk around naked and when people point at you tell that that only fools fail to see my splendid raiment! For I am the emperor!
To be fair, there is probably a magic item that works just like that.

It's much more impressive when its done through sheer grit and mundane determination.


You can use the Secret Messages application of Bluff to communicate with someone whose language you don't know, or use it when you are transformed via Wild Shape of something.


Master of the Dark Triad wrote:
A character of mine was a synth summoner. He used bluff to claim that his spells were divine and that his eidolon was him channeling the aspect of his god.

I keep thinking that there is no reason to use bluff at all for this. Your PC can be 100% convinced by it. Or, for that matter, it can be real in the sense that it is a valid mechanical vehicle to achieve what your character says he's doing. Even in Golarion it has established existence in the form of the Godcallers.

(Yes, there are many that thing that no actual "god" is being called; but then again, not all godcallers are considered - and the concept of divinity and deity-ism stretches so far that it is entirely plausible to godcall an entity that grants spells and domains.)

(PS - bonus points for using mythic rules and yourself becoming able to grant spells and domains)


Dipping into synth summoner can apparently give you lots of Bluff, too. Two months ago I saw someone suggest a build with +62 Bluff at level 8 or 1/day take 20 to +82, then +110 at 20 or 1/day take 20 to +130.

I mean, how could you not try that build at least once?!

Tons of thoughts:
Usually a bluff is best used with some form of truth, a spell, an illusion or some handy stage prop. People will disbelieve if the opposing evidence is right in front of them, but if they have a reason to believe you, you have a chance. Also, the DM has the option of completely overriding your Bluff if you're known to the NPCs, so it should work best if you're a stranger, or better yet, disguised.

Play dead. Or, pretend to betray and kill a teammate low on health, and have them lie on the floor after your Academy Award-winning display.

Bluff a spellcaster that their domination/charm/hold person actually worked, when it didn't.

Convince a squad of occupying soldiers that the dirtiest, bloodiest tavern in the city (filled with the thugs you were hired to take out; how surprisingly convenient) is actually the city's best brothel.

Disguise yourself as whoever's in charge (not hard at all with Kitsune's realistic likeness) and send the guards in the opposite direction. Weapons not allowed in the castle? Wear a uniform and take your party's things inside in a wheelbarrow, claiming that it's "confiscated."

Disguise yourself as the royal advisor and give extremely bad advice. Better yet, remove your disguise in a safe place, find the king and tell him his royal advisor is a traitor. You have proof; the bad advice!

Actually, you know what, you could disguise yourself as that king, meet him and tell him you're his future self, returned to deliver a message, which was to wear a phoenix on his head for an hour before mealtimes. Give him a chicken and tell him it's his phoenix. Then you spread the rumour in the castle that the king is insane; he wears chickens on his head! To public dinners!

Trouble convincing a wizard? Forge a set of written instructions inside a spellbook and tell him he was memory-wiped, except that he anticipated the memory wipe and wrote a set of instructions to himself that he doesn't remember any more...

And so forth.

Oh. And as mentioned in the build thread, Pageant of the Peacock can allow you a Bluff check instead of an Int-based skill check.

Sovereign Court

FuelDrop wrote:
PSusac wrote:
So...Walk around naked and when people point at you tell that that only fools fail to see my splendid raiment! For I am the emperor!
To be fair, there is probably a magic item that works just like that.

You can leave your Hat of Disguise on.


Meh that's essentially only a +10 to your disguise check and people touching you get to make an 11 DC Will save to negate it.


Well, given it is only a -20 to a check to convince someone of something impossible, I guess telling your opponents how silly it is that a vegetable-of-your-choice-here (ie them) is attacking you and that they should stop because this is too absurd would be one way to finish every fight.
(Un)Fortunately, I had a GM who shut this down after the first occasion where a group were told they were actually a horse.

With a particularly lawful foe, a good "I'm unarmed!" routine might do the trick if you have a means to summon up weapons.


"Quick! Hurry! Give us all your valuables for you are about to be arrested! We arrived just in time, the guards have been paid off. There is a conspiracy afoot. We have to go now or they will see us and steal from you. We will hire you a lawyer and tell your family you are innocent. You can trust us."

Something like that should be good to pull on anyone rich and/or high level, provided you are leaving town anyway.


In on this thread, of course. My current 9th level character can get an autosuccess on bluff of 105.

Quote:

Kitsune Street Performer Bard 8/Synth 1

Cha +5
Ranks +9
Class Skill +3
Fast Talker +1
Deceitful +2
Skill Focus +3
Street Performer +4
Synthesist +8
+2 Headband of Cha +1
Necklace +13

Lying:
(Kitsune) +4
Eldritch Heritage Rakshasa - Silvertongued +5 (need skill focus in disguise then - which ofc comes in handy)
(30 seconds to spell up)
Glibness +20
Bestow Insight +2
Heroism +2
Moment of Greatness +2
Eagle's Spendor +1

Quick Change: Once a day take 20

If you wanted to use only written items simply make the headband +4 and take that stony demeanor mask which is much cheaper and you still are netting an auto 103. In certain games this would make you a god, especially with that broken Pageant of the Peacock masterpiece. I'm slowly working bluff more into our campaign, but I don't expect my DM to let me trick BBEGs into thinking I'm a God and such to just steamroll encounters.

I am curious though about creative ways people have used bluff that I could apply to my game.


Oh and if you want to start him higher levels than this?

Enchanter +2
w/ Viper familiar +3
Kitsune Trickster (make sure to have a decent int) so for me that's another +3

Then Master Spy for +1 for every level.

Make sure you have layers of magical barriers up as well. Daily Undetectable alignment, misdirection, seek thoughts, a ring of mind shielding, utilizing the silver tongue's defenses etc. The Master Spy adds yet more layers of defense against detecting your lies.


Also, Rule as Written:

Quote:
Note that some lies are so improbable that it is impossible to convince anyone that they are true (subject to GM discretion)...The lie is impossible: –20

I think it's time PFS has a more concrete guideline on what is impossible (if it doesn't already) It seems like there could be a lot of variance on what one DM says is impossible as opposed to another? This seems like something that should be FAQed for them so you know pretty clearly what is or isn't impossible.


To be fair, it's kind of impossible to define the line for that without listing every last permutation. What is impossible beyond doubt, arguably, should be axiomatic.
Now, whether the person at your table believes in rule or funny/cool/etc sends it all for a spin.


Hm I dunno I could definitely see some guidelines being set for this so players know how they can use it.

Sovereign Court

What lies can truly be said to be "impossible" in a world where 9th level spells exist? Maybe we need more Degrees of Improbability?


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This, of course.

chaoseffect wrote:
Meh that's essentially only a +10 to your disguise check and people touching you get to make an 11 DC Will save to negate it.

If you've convinced them to touch you under your clothes, I think you've succeeded in whatever you were trying to do anyway.


Comments in bold below:

MattR1986 wrote:

In on this thread, of course. My current 9th level character can get an autosuccess on bluff of 105.

Quote:

Kitsune Street Performer Bard 8/Synth 1

Cha +5 -- untyped
Ranks +9 -- untyped
Class Skill +3 -- untyped
Fast Talker +1 -- trait
Deceitful +2 -- untyped
Skill Focus +3 -- untyped
Street Performer Streetwise +4 -- untyped, bard (street performer) 4
Synthesist +8 -- ?
+2 Headband of Cha +1 -- enhancement
Necklace +13 -- ? competence
+49 to this point.

Lying:
(Kitsune) +4 -- favored class bonus, untyped
Eldritch Heritage Rakshasa - Silvertongued +5 (need skill focus in disguise then - which ofc comes in handy) -- untyped
(30 seconds to spell up)
Glibness +20 -- untyped
Bestow Insight +2 -- +4, insight
Heroism +2 -- morale
Moment of Greatness +2 -- double morale bonus
Eagle's Splendor +1 -- +2, enhancement, does not stack with headband

Quick Change: Once a day take 20 -- bard (street performer) 5

If you wanted to use only written items simply make the headband +4 and take that stony demeanor mask which is much cheaper and you still are netting an auto 103. In certain games this would make you a god, especially with that broken Pageant of the Peacock masterpiece. I'm slowly working bluff more into our campaign, but I don't expect my DM to let me trick BBEGs into thinking I'm a God and such to just steamroll encounters.

I am curious though about creative ways people have used bluff that I could apply to my game.

Bestow Insight gives +2 + 1 per 4 levels, letting you get +4 from this spell.

The Mask of Stony Demeanor is +10 competence.

I don't see where you get the +8 from being a Synthesist.

What necklace gives +13? If it is a skill necklace, then it costs 16900 and gives a competence bonus.

This is auto success 107 once a day.

You use one 1st level spell, three 2nd level spells, and one 3rd level spell. You only have 6/5/3 spell, so you can max out only once per day. You can additionally Take-10 by spells for 93 twice per day.

Add a Blue Book for +2 Circumstance bonus to bluff for 24 hours.

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Cevah wrote:
I don't see where you get the +8 from being a Synthesist.

The Skilled Evolution. +8 to one skill of your choice.


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Good catch on the insight. I hadn't seen that. The +13 just follows the creation rules so ya its competence and 16.9k. Much more balanced than +10 for only 500. The headband doesn't stack which is why I listed it as +1 cuz the spell ovverrides it for an extra +1.

I've seen the blue books but they're so circumstantial I haven't gotten any yet. There's also elixer of honeyed words that gives an untyped +10 iirc but that's if your dm permits the pfs handbook as a source.


MattR1986 wrote:
Good catch on the insight. I hadn't seen that.

Gotta really read them spells. :-)

MattR1986 wrote:
The +13 just follows the creation rules so ya its competence and 16.9k. Much more balanced than +10 for only 500.

That 500 is for a limited subset of the skill, while the necklace is for all uses of the skill. Is that subset worth 500? Who knows. It is not worth the 10,000 for the full skill use at +10.

MattR1986 wrote:
The headband doesn't stack which is why I listed it as +1 cuz the spell ovverrides it for an extra +1.

Which is why I called out the non-stacking, and also only added 1 at that point to the total. We agree, I just marked it differently.

MattR1986 wrote:
I've seen the blue books but they're so circumstantial I haven't gotten any yet.

Yeah, they are circumstantial, but if you know you will be someplace for a while, 50gp for a +2 is cheap and very useful. I play Skulls and Shackles, and have one for each port we do business in. Well worth it to me.

MattR1986 wrote:
There's also elixer of honeyed words that gives an untyped +10 iirc but that's if your dm permits the pfs handbook as a source.

Can you provide a link? I found the Rogue Talent and the trait, but no elixir. I found a spell Honeyed Tongue and two traits Honeyed Tongue and Honey Tongued.

/cevah


Getting a +10/+5 for 500 when the drawback is something that's really never used, to me makes it very underpriced. The char is for RotRL and we travel around so haven't picked up a book yet. It would be incredibly silly for me to get one for the +2, but I think I'm going get one when we stop at Magnimar or Sand Point for a bit for no other reason than because I CAN. I'm also gonna drop another 5600 to get that +13 to +15 for no other reason than to be the best B.S.er in the history of Golarion.

Sorry, it's Honeytongue Elixer

Btw, Ascalaphus made a good point earlier, especially how it relates to this thread: what really is impossible in a world that is so full of high magic? You really could use magic as a scapegoat for nearly any impossible lie that you make. I'm really the King of England, but a sorcerer turned me into this scrawny gnome, let me into my castle!

EDIT: Btw, if you use this character, his name is Walaver. Other people have named their builds, that's the character's name.

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