How to raise the save DC on Aqueous Orb?


Advice


In the campaign that I've been playing for a good time now we ended up leveling up to 11 last night, and for my sorcerer that means he gets to pick his final 3rd level spell. So after looking over the spell lists I ended up pretty much falling in love with the spell "Aqueous Orb", but since I've mostly been blasting/buffing until now and only recently started to get into battlefield control/debuffing my DC for spells is kinda low and needs to be improved.

Basically I need some advice on how to make my katamari- I mean aqueous orb more of a hassle for the opposition.

My sorcerer is as stated now level 11, he's of the dragonic bloodline (brass) and has a charisma of 19. Equipment isn't noteworthy because i've been horribly neglectful of that up til now, though that's going to change next time we go shopping.

But yeah, any advice on this? My DM is pretty cool so I might be able to change a trait if needed, and I haven't yet picked the feat for this level.


Raise your DC? DC is dependent on spell level and your relevant ability modifier.

Spell level is usually static, except if you use Heighten Spell.

Your relevant ability modifier is Charisma, so a headband of charisma will help. Hopefully you've been putting your stat increases into Cha as well.

Spell Focus (conjuration) will also increase the spell DC of a specific school (conjuration in this case).

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.


Spell Focus - Conjuration
-> Greater Spell Focus

Elemental Focus - Water
-> Greater Elemental Focus

Heighten Spell

+Charisma modifiers such as headband of charisma. If you can't get that you can use a buff such as Eagle's Splendor.


Spell Focus (Conjuration)* and Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)** along with the Headband of Charisma* will raise your spell DCs. If you want to get into the control game, there are several decent Conjuration spells that accomplish this:

1-4 Examples that also benefit from higher save DCs:
1st lvl - Grease, Web Bolt (depending on GMs approval)
2nd lvl - Create Pit, Glitterdust, Web (though be careful, you can hose your own party with this)
3rd lvl - Spiked Pit, Stinking Cloud
4th lvl - Acid Pit, Web Cloud (depending on GMs approval)

The bad part is that your choice in bloodline strongly supports blasting. But that doesn't mean you can't use control and blast too.

* - STRONGLY recommend
** - Only recommended if you want to make this a major focus of your character.

Liberty's Edge

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I would also recommend a Lesser Rod of Persistent metamagic. EVERY save roll that the enemy makes with regards to your spells, level 3 or below, need to be made twice, and they take the low roll. It's particularly nice for AoE spells and/or spells that allow multiple saves, like glitterdust and aqueous orb.


Persistent Spell will give you far better results than Heighten Spell and should be part of every sorcerers feat selection. Take a quick example. Lets say an enemy needs to roll an 11 to save against your orb. He has a 50% chance of passing. If you use Heighten to cast as a level 5 spell that goes down to 40%. If you instead apply persistent spell for the same level adjustment then that chance goes down to 25%. It is much more effective.

My only quibble would be that your charisma is very low for level 11. I would normally expect at least a post racial stat of 18.. With two level up bonuses that goes to 20. You would normally be able to afford at least a +4 headband by this point in time.

As others have mentioned you can also invest in spell focus and greater spell focus. Both are excellent choices for conjuration. I would also look into spells such as grease, create pit, glitterdust and hungry pit. Later on I would look at picking up dazing spell to go alongside stuff like acid arrow and ice spears as well as aqueous orb. A dazing aqueous orb is ludicrously potent board control if you can hike the DC
up.

You might also want to consider your bloodline. I don't know how attached you are to draconic but arcane gives a significant boost. It adds an extra +1DC when you apply a metamagic feat and at level 15 you can pick a school of magic to add +2DC to (pick conjuration). You could gain that power now with the Robe of Arcane Heritage. If you wanted to do this and your GM doesn't allow retraining then see if you can find an Ampoule of False Blood. You use a different bloodlines powers while wearing it and can drink it to permanently switch.


Alright, thanks to the input here I've taken spell focus conjuration as my lv 11 feat and will definitely be picking up some charisma boosting items once we get out of the god-forsaken dungeon that we're currently in.

Persistent spell is looking really good and I think I'll pick up a lesser metamagic rod for it when I get the chance and possibly take the feat itself later; we'll see how my delving into battelfield control works out.

Andreww, this was my first character ever to be made so not all of my choices have been perfect during the game's progression, so that's why you might think of my casting stat to be lackluster. I'll put the lv12 ability point to that one though and probably get something to give it a +6 bonus (I have a fair bit of wealth stored up by now).

My bloodline is definitely not up for alteration. Not because of my DM's approval or disapproval but because it's a very important part of the character. He's a bit of a dragon-nut who one day aspires to begome a true dragon himself, and the draconic bloodline fits his theme very nicely.

Thanks for all the advice though guys, I'll make sure to make the most of them!


Also remember that aqueous orb targets reflex saves and rolls on the ground, so hold it for big slow tank monsters. Also, look for ways of denying dex to your enemy. Their save penalty is like your bonus to your DC.

Follow it up with hideous laughter and you get an insta-drown.

Also, dazing metamagic on aqueous orb is nasty.

Finally, I think the text says that making a save puts you in an adjacent square to the orb. Your GM may rule that having no adjacent squares makes the save hard to make. (Like dropping the orb with the monster down a 10x10 pit.


Also note with the Orb that if they are caught it becomes harder for them to get out. Entangled imposes a -4 dexterity penalty meaning their reflex defence will be two lower.

Dazing aqueous orb is horrid and arguably forces people who are caught to drown as daze prevents you from taking any actions. Holding your breath would seem to be a specific action which daze prevents.


Getting someone to use the Intimidate skill can hit them with the shaken condition. That gives them a -2 on all saves among other penalties.


Also Aqueous Orb + Sleep Hex = instant drowning.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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bfobar wrote:
Follow it up with hideous laughter and you get an insta-drown.

I... I never thought of this...


So your save is 17 right now, thats really very low. Even with persistent spell. My conjuration wizard thats level 9 in society uses a dc 23 persistent(from rod) aqueous orb and sometimes I have a hard time getting that to stick. And I'm boosting that dc in one more game.

You should get a headband (+4 one) asap regardless of anything else. If you want to use the orb I agree with the others that a lesser persistent rod is the way to go. Its nice and cheap and with your dcs so low you really need that. If your going to want more battlefield control start revving up and taking spell focus and greater. The one great thing about conjuration spells is that a fair number of them aren't effected by sr (including aqueous orb) so a lot of things that kill other casters (golems and high sr opponents) are easy to deal with (or at least effect) if you have a wide range of conjuration options.

Sczarni

Sagiso wrote:
My DM is pretty cool so I might be able to change a trait if needed

There is a Religion Trait from Faiths of Corruption called Affinity of the Elements that can help raise your [Water] descriptor spell DCs by +1, but you'd have to worship the Elemental Lord Kelizandri, who if I remember correctly is Neutral Evil.

Just as another suggestion. Nobody had mentioned it, yet.


Nefreet wrote:
Sagiso wrote:
My DM is pretty cool so I might be able to change a trait if needed

There is a Religion Trait from Faiths of Corruption called Affinity of the Elements that can help raise your [Water] descriptor spell DCs by +1, but you'd have to worship the Elemental Lord Kelizandri, who if I remember correctly is Neutral Evil.

Just as another suggestion. Nobody had mentioned it, yet.

Wow, thats a pretty good trait! I was looking at making a winter witch in PFS so I may need to pick that up for her.

Sczarni

Be careful, though.

Whereas the elemental-related feats and class abilities generally work with Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire descriptors, this Trait specifically works only with Air/Earth/Fire/Water.

So it might not benefit a Winter Witch all that much.

Grand Lodge

Ahh, thanks, almost missed that. That seems a little odd although I gues the four elements always have been e/a/f/w. I wonder how many water spells there actually are, because most I've seen are cold spells.

Sczarni

If you're an Undine with the Steamcaster feat, every Fire spell can become a Water spell ;-).

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