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Personally, for 'well rounded', I'd drop Con to 12 and raise Int to 12. That lets you grab a 13 at 4th for Unsanctioned Knowledge, which is always cool. Skills ans spells are where you get versatility as a Paladin, and this lets you have more of both. For real versatility, also put your Favored Class bonus into skills.
For Feats...don't grab Iron Will. Your Saves get much better next level, and only go up from there. Grab Power Attack. Yeah, yeah it's not the most 'well-rounded' feat, but it's necessary to be really effective in melee (and the only Feat really necessary for that). At 3rd you could grab Skill Focus (that Skill Feat you mention) and start working on the Eldritch Heritage line of Feats which is very good with the right bloodline, and might add some versatility as well, grabbing Unsanctioned Knowledge somewhere between those. And that's actually almost all your Feats in PFS. Maybe grab Toughness somewhere in there, too, since healing yourself is harder for you than a normal Paladin.
Eat lots of cake. You'll get plenty round.
Joking aside, I thought Wisdom was the caster stat for Paladin spells? If so, you might want to bump that up to at least a 13 so you can increase it to 14 at level 4.
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Eat lots of cake. You'll get plenty round.
Joking aside, I thought Wisdom was the caster stat for Paladin spells? If so, you might want to bump that up to at least a 13 so you can increase it to 14 at level 4.
Nope. Charisma is. It was wisdom in 3.x but Pathfinder streamlined a lot of things like that.
Ahhh... Here I've been playing pathfinder for 2 or 3 years and I still find out something new every day.
If you're going 2-handed Bastard Sword you may as well just use a Greatsword (unless you love the flavor) - you'll gain damage and lose nothing. Playing a Dhampir is going to mess up most Paladin builds as you can't Lay on Hands yourself for loads of Swift Action heals. I wrote a moderately lengthy discourse about Lay on Hands then had to delete it when I read Negative Energy Affinity. pshaw.
You could mimic the iconic barbarian and wield a large bastard sword. Don't know how you'd include that in your character background, but it could be fun.
Paladins are great at range, but Divine Hunter is a trap. Free Precise Shot is the only gold thing about it, all the other tradeoffs switch good class features for poor ones. And it locks you out of the excellent Oath of Vengeance.
If you're going 2-handed Bastard Sword you may as well just use a Greatsword (unless you love the flavor) - you'll gain damage and lose nothing. Playing a Dhampir is going to mess up most Paladin builds as you can't Lay on Hands yourself for loads of Swift Action heals. I wrote a moderately lengthy discourse about Lay on Hands then had to delete it when I read Negative Energy Affinity. pshaw.
I run into the first part a lot with my melee concepts. Love bastard sword, but a feat to use one handed mm not so much. Two handed? Yeah, just use a great sword.
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So I am making a dhampir paladin for pfs (hopefully trading for the boon soon) and want it to be fairly well rounded. Her stats are as follows
Str- 18
Dex- 12......I dont want to min/max for one thing,
0_o
Erm, just because you didn't start with a 20 doesn't mean it's not min/maxed.
The STR 18 2hPA melee beat-stick in heavy armor may be optimal from a certain point of view, but it's hardly "well-rounded".
= = = =
human 20pt, 15,14,14,14,12,07 array
STR+16
DEX:15 (bump 4th)
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:07
CHA:14 (other bumps)
Traits: Dangerously Curious
01 p1 [core], Quick Draw, Fey Foundling
02 p2 [divine grace]
03 p3 Greater Mercy
04 p4 DEX>16
05 p5 Bond [Mount], Mounted Combat
..etc.
Equipment: mithral breastplate, quickdraw light shield, scimitar, bardiche, DEX+2 belt, STR+3 composite longbow
-- This guy is a true switch-hitter and healer (his LoH is 3d6+6 at 4th!).
Tactics: fire bow; drop and quickdraw bardiche for AoOs; drop polearm and quickdraw shield and scimitar for close-quarters melee. Tie weapons to saddlehorn with weapon cords.
honestly, i think you might want to rethink making a damphir... swift action healing is what makes pallies indestructable. if you're giving that up you're becoming super MAD. most pallies don't worry much about Con because they recharge their hp instead of raising their max, but you can't do that; and most don't worry too much about dex/AC because its in the party's best interest for them to be the ones getting attacked (and if you have a really high armor class they'll go for easier targets most of the time), but without swift healing that is no longer the case... now you need Str for hit/dmg, Dex for AC, Con for hp, Int for skills (to be well rounded), and Cha for class abilities- so you dump Wis hard to get another stat or two up to mediocre and hope that you can survive level 1 with your whopping +0 total will save...
an angelkin aasimar would be a much better bet, if you want a pally (or a pitborn tiefling if you want the 'unexpected good' or 'opposing ancestors' feel). if you really want to play a damphir you'd probably be a lot better off as a ranger. still get spells, have decent saves (though you'll need to invest a little more in Will), full BAB, d10 hp, lots of good skills for being well rounded, and you can use favored enemy to be at battling specific evils (like undead or evil outsiders) instead of smite.
just some other advice (since you're on that board), as always remember that the first rule is "have fun" and build from there :)
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Well rounded in what sense? A paladin with a wisdom of 7 sounds anything but well rounded to me.
So I am making a dhampir paladin for pfs (hopefully trading for the boon soon) and want it to be fairly well rounded. Her stats are as follows
Str- 18
Dex- 12......I dont want to min/max for one thing,
0_o
Erm, just because you didn't start with a 20 doesn't mean it's not min/maxed.
The STR 18 2hPA melee beat-stick in heavy armor may be optimal from a certain point of view, but it's hardly "well-rounded".
= = = =
human 20pt, 15,14,14,14,12,07 array
STR+16
DEX:15 (bump 4th)
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:07
CHA:14 (other bumps)Traits: Dangerously Curious
01 p1 [core], Quick Draw, Fey Foundling
02 p2 [divine grace]
03 p3 Greater Mercy
04 p4 DEX>16
05 p5 Bond [Mount], Mounted Combat
..etc.Equipment: mithral breastplate, quickdraw light shield, scimitar, bardiche, DEX+2 belt, STR+3 composite longbow
-- This guy is a true switch-hitter and healer (his LoH is 3d6+6 at 4th!).
Tactics: fire bow; drop and quickdraw bardiche for AoOs; drop polearm and quickdraw shield and scimitar for close-quarters melee. Tie weapons to saddlehorn with weapon cords.
ERM o-O I would say dumping wisdom to a 7 would STILL be min/maxing. Just sayin.
I'd go with Con 12 and Int 12. This way he could invest in Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Perception and Kn(Religion). That makes him a decent party face.
You could also go Dervish Dance and lower your Str to 10 or 12. That would make better at skills and save you a few atribute points that you could add to Int or Wis. Besides, using a mithral medium armor would reduce ACP abd completely avoid the penalty to movement speed.
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Well rounded in what sense? A paladin with a wisdom of 7 sounds anything but well rounded to me.
A paladin needs wisdom less than any other class; he's immune to Fear at 3rd and immune to charms at 8th.
4th-level comparison:
Fighter w/WIS:14 ...has a will save of +3 and a Sense Motive of +2 (no ranks)
Paladin w/WIS:07,CHA:14 ...has a will save of +3 and a Sense Motive of +2 (w/1 rank)
-- By 6th, the paladin's will save is +2 ahead of the fighter's due to class difference and him buying a CHA headband.
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I'd go with Con 12 and Int 12. This way he could invest in Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Perception and Kn(Religion). That makes him a decent party face.
You could also go Dervish Dance and lower your Str to 10 or 12. That would make better at skills and save you a few atribute points that you could add to Int or Wis. Besides, using a mithral medium armor would reduce ACP abd completely avoid the penalty to movement speed.
Be a halfling multiclass to really supercharge the bonuses:
halfling 15,14,12,12,12,12 array
STR-10
DEX:+17 (bump 4th)
CON:12
INT:12
WIS:12 (or 07 and turn two 12s into 14s)
CHA+16 (other bumps, unless rogue predominant)
01 pala1 [divine hunter:Precise Shot] Rapid Shot
02 rogue1 SA+1d6
03 rogue2 [evasion][finesse rogue], Two Weapon Fighting
04 pala2 [divine grace], DEX>18, Two Weapon Fighting
05 rogue3 or pala3
(I would stay core if going paladin the rest of the way as I'd rather have the mount with a small character.)
The saves this squirt gets quickly verge on absurd: at 4th, his will save is +5 with WIS of 7 (+8 if 12); reflex is +11 with Evasion.
I like Sir Thugsalot's array, but not his build.
15 14 14 14 12 7 is the best array you are gonna get, unless you wanna go 10, 8 for your last two stats but it's not necessary on a paladin because math.
If you are really going to consider a switch hitter, I would say you are best off playing a human Divine Hunter so you can pick up Precise Shot for free.
Most of the time we are just going to tell you to pick up a BFS and two hand away.
A more sensible, but less achievable role in combat, is to take either a longsword, scimitar, or bastard sword (with proficiency either from an ioun stone or an Heirloom weapon trait) and spend most of your time two handed, switching to sword and board only when it is necessary to because things are too strong.
Everyone and their mother is going to tell you to go Oath of Vengeance for the extra smites, and it's good advice, but a little boring. I like Sacred Servant/Travel Domain because at 4th level your base speed goes up to 50 because of your Domain Power and Longstrider.
Unsanctioned Knowledge makes level 10 a lot easier when you get access to your own Haste spell, and Alter Self makes a good 2nd level spell because you can get yourself that 18 STR you need for two handed damage. Shield of Faith is the obvious choice for a 1st level spell because a single spell slot is a lot cheaper than a +2 ring of protection imo. If you ever get to 4th level spells (probably not in PFS) I would go either for DimDoor and retrain into the Dimensional Savant feat chain, or Divine Power because Divine Power.
If you really have your heart set on the Dhampir, I would say make a finesse based character, go with Dervish Dance on a Divine Hunter chassis and make a real switch hitter.
STR 13 DEX 16(18) CON 12 INT 10 WIS 7 CHA 16
STR 13 is there for power attack access, you can switch it with INT if you want Unsanctioned Knowledge instead or just nix it if you want to buy in a higher CON score.
this seems like kind of a weird thread necro...
but since we're here i'd like to point out that the newest build posted is actually a giant trap... the OP stated that he was making a dhampir- LoH is worthless for them (since they are harmed by positive energy), so feats like fey foundling, greater mercy, and extra LoH (x3) are really poor choices. Oath of Vengeance is a good call though since burning them for extra smites is just about the only useful thing dhampir can do with LoH.
Unsanctioned Knowledge, the best level 2 spell is probably going to be Barkskin. +2-3 AC over an Amulet.
Kindly note that you can use a longsword two handed, AND still use a shield if it's the better route to go for that particular fight. You give up 2.5 damage vs a Greatsword, vs having +2-5 AC on hand when you want it. And you don't need a feat to one-hand it.
Oh, and smites are equally effective when one-handing. Just saying.
Paladins are quintessential front line fighters. Getting dropped in one round because of a low HP total is not a good thing. Dex 12 is fine, but Con 14 is going to be a necessity just so you don't die.
Without a feat to buy off Negative Energy Affinity, you have no synergy between your race and your class. That means you are going to be categorically inferior to ANY OTHER PALADIN that is not a dhampir like you. While you can play for all the flavor you like, it's purposefully gimping yourself for no additional benefit. I would recommend a different race. If you must go dhampir, a neutral cleric that channels negative energy would likely be more your speed.
==Aelryinth