Hi! I'm new to the game and to the forum.
Long story short...
My first and only pg was a Kitsune bard. I chose traits, spells and feats because they seemed useful, without knowing anything and without thinking too much about the future.
After the first dungeon in which my pg could only watch the fighter and the cleric kill the enemies with the sorceress helping them, I talked with the DM.
Now, I can create a new pg of 4° level and I was thinking to create an Arcane Duelist.
The party: Fetchling fighter, Cat-Folk sorceress, Half-Ork clieric of Gorum (PNG) and my pg.
Campain: Started at level 1. The story will kick in after we reach level 7.
Manuals: CRB, APG, UM, UC, ARP (only for races).
Race:
Half-elf, but not sure at the moment. I'm considering the Human too.
Spells:
* Dancing Light
* Detect Magic
* Ghost Sound
* Prestidigitation
* Read Magic
* Sift
* Cure Light Wounds
* Grease
* Hideous Laughter
* Heroism
Traits:
I don't know what I should choose:
* Arcane Temper( +1 trait bonus on concentration and initiative checks)
* Criminal: +1 trait bonus on Disable Device and it is always a class skill. (No rogue in the party)
* Magical Talent: Acid Splash as 0-level spell
* Reactionary (+2 trait bonus on initiative checks)
Weapons and feats:
I'm not sure...
* Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Curve blade (Half-elf bonus) + Weapon finesse (1°) + Dervish dance (3°)
In this case, my stats would be:
Str 13 + 1 (4° lvl)
Con 16
Dex 18 + 2 (elf race modifiers)
Int 13
Wis 11
Cha 17
* Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Falcata (Half-elf bonus) + Lingering Performance (1°) + Power Attack (3°)
Str 16 + 2 (elf race modifiers)
Con 17
Dex 13 + 1 (4° lvl)
Int 13
Wis 11
Cha 18
I would like to use a bucker.
* Martial Weapon Proficiency: Bastard sword (Half-elf bonus) + Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard sword (1°) + Power Attack (3°)
Str 16 + 2 (elf race modifiers)
Con 17
Dex 13 + 1 (4° lvl)
Int 13
Wis 11
Cha 18
No sword, swapping the bastard sword to 1h when casting.
I have to ask if I can use the Inner Sea World Guide.
I got Arcane Strike and Combat Casting as bonus feats.
My idea of character: melee with focus on buff the party.
I know that I can't do much in combat, but I don't want to continually say "I maintain my Performance and nothing else" while the others fight.
Thanks for the help!
Are you really set on Arcane Duelist? And on melee, for that matter? Bards make great archers, after all.
Also, stats are 18 17 16 13 13 11, right?
Justin Sane wrote: Are you really set on Arcane Duelist? And on melee, for that matter? Bards make great archers, after all.
Also, stats are 18 17 16 13 13 11, right?
I'm not sure what help I can give with a bow in a dungeon.
When I tried to hit a skeleton with a bullet of my sling, the DM found it hilarious ("You are in a narrow hallway, the fighter and the cleric are in front of you. You have more probability to hit them.").
Yes, I rolled 18 17 16 13 13 11.
orm_irian wrote: I'm not sure what help I can give with a bow in a dungeon.
When I tried to hit a skeleton with a bullet of my sling, the DM found it hilarious ("You are in a narrow hallway, the fighter and the cleric are in front of you. You have more probability to hit them.").
Precise Shot is a must-have :)
Anyway, I have some stuff to do now, will post some builds in a couple hours.
That didn't take as long as I figured, so onto the builds!
Human Arcane Duelist, STR-Based
Stats:
STR 18 DEX 16 CON 17 INT 11 WIS 13 CHA 16 (13 +1 lvl +2 racial)
Feats:
1 - Arcane Strike (B), Improved Initiative / Dodge / Toughness / Great Fortitude (pick two)
2 - Combat Casting (B)
3 - Power Attack
5 - Furious Focus
Spells:
0 - Pick 6, your call.
1 - Grease, Saving Finale (APG), Vanish (APG), Liberating Command (UC).
2 - Mirror Image, Heroism.
Gear:
Longsword, Buckler, Chain Shirt.
HP (assuming rolls of 4): 32 (without Toughness)
Skills: 7/level, total 28
AC 18 Touch AC 13 Flat-footed AC 15 (without Dodge)
Saves: +4 Fort, +7 Ref, +5 Will (without G.Fort)
Offence:
(unbuffed) +7, 1d8+5;
(IC, Heroism, PA) +9, 1d8+8.
Half-Elf Arcane Duelist, DEX-based
Stats:
STR 13 DEX 20 (18 +2 racial) CON 18 (17 +1 lvl) INT 11 WIS 13 CHA 16
Feats:
1 - Arcane Strike (B), WP: Scimitar (HE), Weapon Finesse
2 - Combat Casting (B)
3 - Dervish Dance
Spells:
0 - Pick 6, your call.
1 - Grease, Saving Finale (APG), Charm Person, Liberating Command (UC).
2 - Mirror Image, Heroism.
Gear:
Scimitar, (hopefully Mithral) Chain Shirt.
HP (assuming rolls of 4): 36
Skills: 6/level, total 24
AC 19 Touch AC 15 Flat-footed AC 14
Saves: +4 Fort, +9 Ref, +5 Will
Offence:
(unbuffed) +8, 1d8+6;
(IC, Heroism) +11, 1d8+7.
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The Dex-Based build is better at lower levels, but the Str-Based really picks up when you get Furious Focus. Also, having a shield makes it cheaper to boost your AC, and you don't waste the free Medium Armor Proficiency you get at 10.
Edit: I didn't use any FCB in either of the builds. So assume +3 HP or +3 skill points and one extra 1st level spell known in either of them. Also, all numbers are before magic gear.
I very much agree with the first build. It's a classic (for an AD) and not much can go wrong here.
If focussing on melee you might want to consider dipping into Dragon Disciple for a nifty +4 to Str (untyped), d12 for hp, +2 NA, 1 extra feat (Great Fortitude), minor breath weapon and 3 natural attacks (for a number of rounds equalling your Cha-bonus +3), downside is no FCB and you loose 1 CL.
Personally, I'm a fan of the longspear, gives you reach and using PA -1 attack/+3 damage; summon your Natural Weapons if a 5-foot-step is not feasible.
Ruyan.
Dragon Disciple does wonders for an Arcane Duelist, yeah. Also, look into Eldritch Heritage: Abyssal.
Justin Sane wrote: That didn't take as long as I figured, so onto the builds!
------
The Dex-Based build is better at lower levels, but the Str-Based really picks up when you get Furious Focus. Also, having a shield makes it cheaper to boost your AC, and you don't waste the free Medium Armor Proficiency you get at 10.
Edit: I didn't use any FCB in either of the builds. So assume +3 HP or +3 skill points and one extra 1st level spell known in either of them. Also, all numbers are before magic gear.
Thanks!
Does the Str-Based build lose too much if I chose an Half-Elf?
Is an archer build possible without Arcane Archer?
STR based as an half-elf? Absolutely! Half-Elf Bard (Arcane Duelist) 5/Dragon Disciple 4/Bard 2
Stats (lvl 11):
STR 26 (18 +2 Racial +4 DD +2 EH) DEX 16 CON 18 (+1 lvl) INT 11 WIS 13 CHA 14 (13 +1 lvl)
Feats:
1 - Arcane Strike (AD), Skill Focus (Knowledge: Planes) (HE), Dodge
2 - Combat Casting (AD)
3 - Power Attack
5 - Furious Focus
7 - Great Fortitude (DD), Cornugon Smash
9 - Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal)
10 - Disruptive (AD)
11 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal)
Skill ranks (total 50, 33 free):
1 - Linguistics (Draconic)
5 - Knowledge: Arcana
11 - Intimidate
Defence:
HP: 105
AC 10 + 4 (chain shirt) + 1 (buckler) + 3 (natural armor) + 3 (dex) + 1 (dodge) = 22
Touch AC 14, Flat-footed AC 18
Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +8
Resist (your choice) 5
Offence: (+8 BAB)
(Unbuffed) +16/+11, 1d8+11
(IC, Allegro/Haste, Good Hope, Power Attack) +21/+18/+13, 1d8+21
Two-handing your longsword gives you +4 (+3 with PA) damage at the cost of -1 hit and your shield AC.
Again, all this is before magical gear.
Archer builds are perfectly fine without AA, but archers are feat-starved, so you probably want to go human.
orm_irian wrote:
When I tried to hit a skeleton with a bullet of my sling, the DM found it hilarious ("You are in a narrow hallway, the fighter and the cleric are in front of you. You have more probability to hit them.").
Your GM is houseruling. Your allies would provide soft cover, and you'd take a -4 for shooting into a melee, but there is no risk of striking your allies.
Zhayne wrote: Your GM is houseruling. Your allies would provide soft cover, and you'd take a -4 for shooting into a melee, but there is no risk of striking your allies. It seemed a realistic possibility...
FWIW, I've been considering an Arcane Duelist as a cohort for my cleric. The party at the moment consists of Cleric of Ragathiel, Cleric of Pharasma, Ranger (beastmaster w/badger companion), Rogue, Fighter, Wizard. At the point the cohort arrives, they'll all be 8th level.
As of 6th level, the cohort would look something like this (bolded spells are from Rite Publishing's 1001 Spells, and the number known assumes using the alternate FCB for Humans at every level):
STR 10
INT 16
WIS 12
CON 14
DEX 17
CHA 18
(Abilities include +2 Human and 4th level bump)
Spells
0 - dancing lights, ghost sound, mending, message, prestidigitation, resistance, glimmer of hope, quicken stride
1 - abundant ammunition, chord of shards, feather fall, invigorate, saving finale, timely inspiration, touch of gracelessness
2 - cat’s grace, invisibility, lifechant, silent ray
Traits
[Magic] Transmuter - cast transmutation school spells at +1 caster level; once per day you can cast (one of the animal stat boosters like cat’s grace) at double duration
[Regional] Touch of the Gods - stabilize a dying creature with a touch as a standard action
Feats
Combat Casting
Disruptive
Extend spell (metamagic)
Extra Performance
Improvisation
Reach spell (metamagic)
Since you have a fighter and a cleric in the party with the sorceress helping them, I would suggest thinking about going with a strength heavy build with a long spear. You lose the shield bonus, but have the same damage as wielding the longsword with two hands and will have the ability to either stand behind the fighter and the cleric (where they provide soft cover for the monster) or off to the side out of harm's way. A great formation would be something like:
OXO
FOC
OBO
OSO
Where X is enemy, F is fighter, C is cleric, S is sorcerer, B is your bard, and O is an empty square. The next round the fighter and cleric can 5ft step into a flank, you're covering the sorceress completely with your threatened squares, and the monster cant get to you without reach unless he wants to just step right into the flank. Since you're poking through an unoccupied square, the monster doesn't even get a cover bonus.
I recommend avoiding spells with a saving throw and put the 13 into charisma. boost it to 14 at level 4, and then get a +2 headband later to get it to 16. put the 18, 17, and 16 into str, dex, and con respectively. If you're going to fight, be really fit and leave the offensive casting to the sorceress. It is easy to fill up your entire spell selection with buffs and utilities as a bard and never have to risk an enemy making a save.
Otherwise, Justin_Sane's half elf arcane duelist / dragon disciple is a legit build. I might swap out dodge for lingering performance or weapon focus (longspear) though. Also, with a high str and dex, get a masterwork composite shortbow with a strength bonus for those days when the monsters won't land.
Finally, sift, vanish, allegro, and the other bard spells that can make you a good scout would probably help your party out. Try not to be redundant with your other two casters.
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