New Class: The Warlock


Homebrew and House Rules

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Silver Crusade

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Hey all, I've been wanting to make a PF version of the Warlock forever, and using the base of the old 3.5 Warlock, I've made one that I think far better fits the flavor of what a Warlock should be.

The Warlock

The design notes of this class are to create a character who's arcane but works all day. But as I've learned, having some resources often works to make a character more fun, which is where Hex Fusion comes into play.

Right now the class is still in testing, but I'm liking where it's headed, and I wanted to get some feedback on things. Be sure to let me know what does and doesn't work, and any balance concerns.

Please note that this class IS intended to work all day, so let me know if you think some of the abilities are too strong for all day use, and how to put them at a more acceptable level.


I don't really think this is too too powerful. Honestly, it reminds me a lot of a gunslinger in the way certain things work out.

At its most powerful, this class does 21d6+3xcha a round, provided it can land 3 hits. That ain't too shabby but it is not up to max wizard damage or even really archer damage or gunslinger damage. So I am not too too worried about that.

That PLUS hexes to attacks might be getting too good, though? I think a lot of hexes are balanced well at requiring a standard action (*glances sideways at sleep and confusion effects*) and I think that ability might be a little redundant with your elemental abilities too.

I like it a lot. It is maybe my favorite version of the warlock that I have seen.

I think some clarification of abilities is necessary, though. I think I know how the melee attacks work with greater arcane assault, but I am not really sure. If I am two weapon fighting, can my first two attacks both have blast charges? I don't think that is super clear. I can't seem to find the wording that a single shadow blast can only have one effect on it at a time, either. That should be in there.

People are going to b%!!+ about skills and trapfinding. People who know me on here also know that I like such things. I pat you on the back for this. It is my pet cause.


Oh wait. You actually say that you can combine elements. I am gonna call that gooftroop. Too much goof. It must travel in a troop.

Also: I think bat wings should probably not be an option until level 6 or so. This is in line with other at-will flying abilities. I would maybe push back the improved version even further.

A note on tongue of the devil, and similar (4 round cooldown) abilities. I would maybe make it so that these abilities all go on cooldown when one goes on cooldown. That way the class cannot make constant spell effects by cycling through these powers. That may be too good.

Silver Crusade

Excaliburproxy wrote:

I don't really think this is too too powerful. Honestly, it reminds me a lot of a gunslinger in the way certain things work out.

At its most powerful, this class does 21d6+3xcha a round, provided it can land 3 hits. That ain't too shabby but it is not up to max wizard damage or even really archer damage or gunslinger damage. So I am not too too worried about that.

That PLUS hexes to attacks might be getting too good, though? I think a lot of hexes are balanced well at requiring a standard action (*glances sideways at sleep and confusion effects*) and I think that ability might be a little redundant with your elemental abilities too.

I like it a lot. It is maybe my favorite version of the warlock that I have seen.

I think some clarification of abilities is necessary, though. I think I know how the melee attacks work with greater arcane assault, but I am not really sure. If I am two weapon fighting, can my first two attacks both have blast charges? I don't think that is super clear. I can't seem to find the wording that a single shadow blast can only have one effect on it at a time, either. That should be in there.

People are going to b+!+! about skills and trapfinding. People who know me on here also know that I like such things. I pat you on the back for this. It is my pet cause.

Yeah, I didn't think damage was going to be a concern thankfully. It was originally 1d6 at every other level, but possibly hammering out 30d6+3xCha mod seemed a bit too much. Gunslinger was a bit of the inspiration behind this, as I needed an attribute to add to damage or else this was just a weak magical crossbow, and that's not what I wanted for this class.

Excluding a few hexes (Sleep/Confusion), their power level is about where I'm putting Dark Gifts, maybe even a little lower on the scale, which to me puts this at perfect T3 range, which is where I think the design goal for most classes should be. The elemental abilities do make some redundant, but you need at least one Hex to use Hex Fusion, which means I may give the player a Hex at 1st level just to make sure they have one. The elemental shots are mostly to make sure people can play an elemental blaster, since that's a popular archetype.

Glad to hear it, positive feedback is as important as criticism.

Yeah, I need to think of how to word the melee version of Arcane Surge to make that more clear, I wasn't exactly sure how to do that, but I'll work on wordings to make it more clear. Added a bit about each Arcane Surge only being able to have one Shadow Gift applied at once unless otherwise stated (Like with Shadow Sniper), the main idea is blast shapes (much like old Warlock ones) are able to be combined.

The Trapfinding and skills are a hold over from when it was templated off of the Rogue, I'm actually thinking of lowering the skills to 4+int and removing Trapfinding to give a Familiar at 1st level instead, which would probably be more thematic. Probably keep Disable Device as a skill, but I could just chop that and give them the chance to take the trait.

Excaliburproxy wrote:

Oh wait. You actually say that you can combine elements. I am gonna call that gooftroop. Too much goof. It must travel in a troop.

Also: I think bat wings should probably not be an option until level 6 or so. This is in line with other at-will flying abilities. I would maybe push back the improved version even further.

A note on tongue of the devil, and similar (4 round cooldown) abilities. I would maybe make it so that these abilities all go on cooldown when one goes on cooldown. That way the class cannot make constant spell effects by cycling through these powers. That may be too good.

Yeah, that was a late inclusion to the elemental ability, and I could see how that's a bit overkill. That's stripped.

Bat wings is currently limited to level 6+, although the whole wingless flight isn't a huge boon, although maybe I could cut out the speed increase. I'm trying to stop most scaling of Dusk SG to 10th level so that it's like graduating to the Midnight ones. Certain exceptions apply (Shadow Sniper), but those are far better scaling as they already are.

As for the cooldowns, the action economy really comes into play here. Every round you're using a SG with a cooldown, you're not using AA, or a Hex, or anything like that. If they want to cycle spammable SGs, go for it, since if they have enough to cycle that's where they're using their SGs, and I'd rather not punish them for that.

The biggest problem with the power of the SGs is that a lot of them are probably better than a lot of Hexes, which means most players probably won't be picking up a huge amount of Hexes. This isn't a huge problem, but I'd like to include some SGs that better augment Hexes to keep them as a viable option. Considering that you have to split SGs and Hexes, even with an Extra SG/Hex feat, it'd be hard to keep up an even supply of them both, meaning the obviously best Hexes are even more important with the versatility of SGs.

I appreciate the feedback, let me know if you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.


Well, I might have an idea to address what I consider to be a the cool down "problem".

I would introduce a new mechanic called "arcane burst" or "shadow charge" or something like that. It is a "resource" that can be expended (sort of like psionic focus). Have it recharge once every 1+1d4 rounds. The cool down abilities could expend this thing, but maybe it could also be used for other builds. How about it lets you multiply arcane assault damage on a crit (nat 20 at ranged and at w/e melee)?

It would catch up the class a bit in damage to gunslingers or allow for more versatility instead.

Silver Crusade

Excaliburproxy wrote:

Well, I might have an idea to address what I consider to be a the cool down "problem".

I would introduce a new mechanic called "arcane burst" or "shadow charge" or something like that. It is a "resource" that can be expended (sort of like psionic focus). Have it recharge once every 1+1d4 rounds. The cool down abilities could expend this thing, but maybe it could also be used for other builds. How about it lets you multiply arcane assault damage on a crit (nat 20 at ranged and at w/e melee)?

It would catch up the class a bit in damage to gunslingers or allow for more versatility instead.

Again, I'm not seeing the issue with each having their own cooldown, aside from maybe having to track separate cooldowns. Are there any Shdow Gifts you think would be particularly disruptive to this? I'm working on some new SGs right now, mostly blast shape, and decided to scrap the 6 SP+Trapfinding for 4 SP + Familiar to give it a more mystic feel. I might go back up to 6 SP later, but this feels more correct.


I really like this class.

That said, I worry that Shadow Sniper might scale a bit too well and/or too quickly, especially since it works in conjunction with other AA enhancements.

Edit -- One thing I noticed: You listed Uncanny Dodge on the little chart thing at the top, but not with the descriptions of the rest of the Warlock's abilities. Probably just a minor oversight on your part. Didn't mean to be a bother.

Silver Crusade

Arctic Sphinx wrote:

I really like this class.

That said, I worry that Shadow Sniper might scale a bit too well and/or too quickly, especially since it works in conjunction with other AA enhancements.

Thanks!

And I took the distance for this and considered it with the old ability of the Warlock, which was letting them huck their blast from like 200+ feet. This tops out at 135 ft at 19th level, which isn't that bad at all. I could see possibly letting it only get better at 4th and 7th, and maybe letting it ignore partial cover at 10th level.

EDIT: Heck, look at the distance you can get on a Fireball. That thing hits from forever away, and most engagements take place at pretty close distances. This basically gives you the same range as a bow, and barely even that for most of your adventuring career.


I see what you mean, but, when coupled with d8 hit dice and the ability to fly, this might be a class that would particularly frustrate DMs (Although, in my area, many of my DMs don't like to allow unrestricted flight in their home games, so my perspective might be somewhat skewed).

But, like I said, overall, this looks pretty solid. Instead of casting spells, you get lots of neat arcane tricks. It's interesting.

EDIT: You raise a fair point.

Silver Crusade

Arctic Sphinx wrote:

I see what you mean, but, when coupled with d8 hit dice and the ability to fly, this might be a class that would particularly frustrate DMs (Although, in my area, many of my DMs don't like to allow unrestricted flight in their home games, so my perspective might be somewhat skewed).

But, like I said, overall, this looks pretty solid. Instead of casting spells, you get lots of neat arcane tricks. It's interesting.

I actually did try to compensate for this with Hex Fusion's distance concerns. You can be in the sky, raining down death, but it's either on or two shots at a time, nothing big. You could possibly lay down some debuffs (a big part of this class is debuffs), but without Hex Fusion, you're not doing massive damage or forcing a particularly brutal debuff (Misfortune) to stick. Which is a fine style of play, this class is meant to encompass A LOT of play styles.

I will take it under consideration though, thanks for the thought.

I'm wondering if (Improved) Uncanny Dodge still fits the them though, since this class is slowly leaving being a straight trickster, and if so, what to replace it with. Possibly that ability Proxy was talking about.


I'm glad its a single page format. Scrolling up and down is much easier than clicking between pages.

1) Skills. So, the warlock is somewhat filling the role of the rogue? For a 4 skill point class with no inherent need for intelligence, its a pretty big skill list. I see magic stuff, face-man, scout skills, traps... I would drop a few skills from the list. Maybe Stealth and Perception.

2) Arcan Assault. I have seen most warlock conversions add an ability score to the damage roll of the blast ability. Its didn't exist in the otriginal for two reason IMHO. The blast is a spell and spell damage is just dice, and its an attack that ignores armor, so its going to hit and deal damage regularly. I see that you scaled back the damage advancement. That helps, but I might get rid of the Cha bonus at 1st level and do something like what the gunslingeer has. Something new at 3rd level. I have an idea that i will write up later. Finally, I like that it can work with a weapon, but it is completely unclear if just the AA damage happens, or the AA and weapon damage.

3) Uncanny Dodge is typically reserved for melee classes. Its seems to me like an odd fit here.

Silver Crusade

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

I'm glad its a single page format. Scrolling up and down is much easier than clicking between pages.

1) Skills. So, the warlock is somewhat filling the role of the rogue? For a 4 skill point class with no inherent need for intelligence, its a pretty big skill list. I see magic stuff, face-man, scout skills, traps... I would drop a few skills from the list. Maybe Stealth and Perception.

2) Arcan Assault. I have seen most warlock conversions add an ability score to the damage roll of the blast ability. Its didn't exist in the otriginal for two reason IMHO. The blast is a spell and spell damage is just dice, and its an attack that ignores armor, so its going to hit and deal damage regularly. I see that you scaled back the damage advancement. That helps, but I might get rid of the Cha bonus at 1st level and do something like what the gunslingeer has. Something new at 3rd level. I have an idea that i will write up later. Finally, I like that it can work with a weapon, but it is completely unclear if just the AA damage happens, or the AA and weapon damage.

3) Uncanny Dodge is typically reserved for melee classes. Its seems to me like an odd fit here.

1. Yeah, this originally started off as a Rogue mod, and the list has been cut down a bit more. I'm arguing in my head if it should be at 4 or 6, since it's a hard call, I'm leaning towards 4 right now but I wouldn't have a problem with 6.

2. An attribute to damage (especially what's mostly an ancillary one) isn't huge, and it's not like it's 1d6+Cha mod per dice. The Cha is a straight addition to the total (if that's not clear let me know, and I'll clear up the language). The problem I have with what the gunslinger has is that the class spikes in damage SO much at 5th level, and it's a huge shift for a GM to deal with, especially considering in the case of the GS, where they're just about to get a second attack.

The scaled back damage is to compensate for both the power of Shadow Gifts that modify the blast and the Cha bonus. On average, it'll be +3-5 damage, which is the equal of 1-2 dice, and it makes a crit actually sting a bit more. So dropping 3 dice on the progression is pretty manageable for giving Cha to damage.

Keeping Cha to damage at first level makes the damage about as reliable as a normal archer, but not replying on twenty attacks (Rapid Shot, Manyshot, etc)which makes the scaling dice of damage better. As stated above, this Warlock isn't hitting GS numbers, which as a close range character it's most comparable to.

I did clean up the language on the Melee version, it does the weapon's damage in addition to the Arcane Assault. This is the case because the class has no inherent way to boost its attack rolls, meaning you're going in with a 3/4ths BAB, so it's harder to hit but deals more damage. I realize this might be a bit of a "Rogue" situation, but there's no special situation you need to be in to do this, so it's at least more accessible, and helped out a bit by some AA Shadow Gifts.

3. Yeah, that's a hold over from when I was templating this off the Rogue. I think UD and IUD are going aside, possibly to make way for that mechanic Proxy mentioned. Right now I'm still wondering how to best impliment it, possibly an "Arcane Focus" although I'm not sold on the name yet.

I do thank you for the read over, and look forward to any more suggestions you may have.


I agree with every point Ciaran Barnes just made. I was also guilty of #2 in my adaptation of Warlock as a Witch archetype.

Edit: you responded at length before I even hit send on my brief blurb. I need to quit posting from my phone.


I like this Warlock. Different enough from Master Arminas Warlock conversion, and the Shadowy Dusk/Midnight gifts are very flavorful.

Silver Crusade

Da'ath wrote:

I agree with every point Ciaran Barnes just made. I was also guilty of #2 in my adaptation of Warlock as a Witch archetype.

Edit: you responded at length before I even hit send on my brief blurb. I need to quit posting from my phone.

Yeah, some of those were just hold overs. I'm working on something more concrete now since this isn't just a Rogue with magic anymore.

Right now it's just a matter of tweaking Mystic Focus to do what I want, although I feel I summed up the damage concerns. A static damage modifier always feels better to me than more dice. That's a problem I had with the old one. The Warlock I've made doesn't compare in damage to a lot of other bruisers out there.

I might have to run the numbers later, but until that 3rd shot (at level 15 no less), this Warlock isn't getting close to brutal numbers. It'd probably take a melee Warlock to do that, and more power to them if they could.


So the first idea I had is to devise some way to put weapon enhancements on the blast, perhaps the way a paladin does, like flaming burst or speed.

The other idea was to have two rates at which the damage goes up in damage. The first could be what you have now, which is untyped and multiplies on a crit. The other could be elemental (fire, cold, acid, electricity, etc), having more dice in the pool, but not multiplying on a crit.

Silver Crusade

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

So the first idea I had is to devise some way to put weapon enhancements on the blast, perhaps the way a paladin does, like flaming burst or speed.

The other idea was to have two rates at which the damage goes up in damage. The first could be what you have now, which is untyped and multiplies on a crit. The other could be elemental (fire, cold, acid, electricity, etc), having more dice in the pool, but not multiplying on a crit.

I'm not really sure that the first way would really make sense. Like most enhancements just increase damage (mostly by d6), and Speed would be putting up WAY more damage. Giving enhancement bonuses could be a nice Dusk Shadow Gift though, might need to make a magic item that works for that. Or possibly make that the level 9 feature...hm...

And again, remember that only the base 1d6+Cha crits with Arcane Assault, not every d6. It's like the Alchemist Bomb in that respect. Plus removing crits from the equation seems a little depressing. This kind of Warlock doesn't crit well, but they're still an option, and non elemental damage is almost always better than elemental damage except in cases of weakness.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Wings of the Bat should be changed to the following.

Pre-requisite 6th level.

It should grant the wings on a one minute per level/day and the greater gift should be to make those at will.

Silver Crusade

LazarX wrote:

The Wings of the Bat should be changed to the following.

Pre-requisite 6th level.

It should grant the wings on a one minute per level/day and the greater gift should be to make those at will.

It does have a 6th level prereq, it's the last line in the ability.

As for the second part, I want to agree, but the old Warlock gave you flight at 6th level with no restrictions and no wings, which is why I made the allowance I did there. Maybe that's too good for PF, since flight seems to be a touchy subject. It does make me curious if there's be a more fair middle ground.

Silver Crusade

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
I like this Warlock. Different enough from Master Arminas Warlock conversion, and the Shadowy Dusk/Midnight gifts are very flavorful.

Okay, I can honestly say my Warlock is nothing like that. Mine is more of an all day character, which I think is more in following with the original spirit of the class, which is an all day character.

I've done some major overhauls, worked with the "Focus" idea that Proxy had and really ran with it.

And now gave the class a bit more flavor and variety in how to best utilize their power with the Warlock's Paths. Got rid of a few things, gave them a Hex at 1st level to make sure they can use Hex Fusion.

Now I'm just looking at Shadow Lord as the odd man out for abilities, since it doesn't really give with the class's more gradual change from a 'dark' class like it was in the rough drafts (Original name for it was "The Shade")


Looking much more interesting N.Jolly.

* Says Curse Warrior instead of Warlock somewhere in Weapon and Armor Proficiencies.

* I know this is a small thing, bu that picture is the last thing that makes me think of any kind of dark artist of the arcane eldritch or wyrd. It looks like a vaguely steampunk charm-greeter on holday from Warlock school who has stolen her grandpa's pact. Great illustration, but the white clothing theme - aieeeee it hurts my eyes.

* Mystic Focus: the ability to increase Hex DCs is slightly worrisome - I get that you made it 1/3 of your mod, but it's still minimum +1. There nust aren't that many ways to boost hex DCs and with good reason given the spamability of them...

* As for the making "The Shade" the odd man out... I don't actually see the Shadow Lord ability - regardless, it sounds like reason enough for an archetype... Unless Shadow Lord refers to something else...

* I like the Warlock's Paths - definitely room for a bunch more of these...


I really dig the revised version. You implemented my suggestion in a way that I find super interesting. I am with Ocean: I think the warlock paths are neat and they are a solid way to customize the specialization of your play style.

I am maybe a little worried about arcane cannon. Can you use that ability with iterative attacks? It seems like you shouldn't be able to, but I see nothing to that effect other than my general experience with the game.

If it can't be made with iterative attacks then I say step up the damage perhaps (like increase the d6 by x2 or maybe just x1.5 if you expect people to combine it with quicksilver strike anyways). If it can be made with iterative attacks then I worry that it does not balance well against the normal touch attacks since the later attacks would not see lower save DCs (and there would be a decent amount of guaranteed damage against most enemies).

But yeah: super neato stuff.

Silver Crusade

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Looking much more interesting N.Jolly.

* Says Curse Warrior instead of Warlock somewhere in Weapon and Armor Proficiencies.

* I know this is a small thing, bu that picture is the last thing that makes me think of any kind of dark artist of the arcane eldritch or wyrd. It looks like a vaguely steampunk charm-greeter on holday from Warlock school who has stolen her grandpa's pact. Great illustration, but the white clothing theme - aieeeee it hurts my eyes.

* Mystic Focus: the ability to increase Hex DCs is slightly worrisome - I get that you made it 1/3 of your mod, but it's still minimum +1. There nust aren't that many ways to boost hex DCs and with good reason given the spamability of them...

* As for the making "The Shade" the odd man out... I don't actually see the Shadow Lord ability - regardless, it sounds like reason enough for an archetype... Unless Shadow Lord refers to something else...

* I like the Warlock's Paths - definitely room for a bunch more of these...

Glad to hear the revamp is doing a lot better.

You found another previous name of the class, and now that's fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.

Yeah, that's actually the illustration of my Alchemist, which I'm sure actually makes a lot more sense. If you see another one that you think would look better, I'm open to suggestion, but I'd rather have a female character who's not scantily clad for this.

Okay, the main reason there's an increase to save DC for Hexes with that is because I'm not sure what other benefit to give to them for burning MF on their Hexes, so I'm open to suggestions.

Yeah, I replaced Shadow Lord with Tri Mystic Focus, it was originally 18th but I dropped it down to fit the progression. The Shadow Lord was another ability that gave some minor bonuses in shadows, but yeah it seems more like an archetype.

It was pretty difficult figuring out 3 on the spot, but I'm sure I could come up with some more. Maybe for archetypes and such.


You can remove the bits in proficiencies about armor and spell failure, because AA is supernatural, not a spell-like ability.

There are many places you should replace mod or modifier with bonus.

Silver Crusade

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

You can remove the bits in proficiencies about armor and spell failure, because AA is supernatural, not a spell-like ability.

There are many places you should replace mod or modifier with bonus.

Yeah, tried to get the original flavor for that of the Warlock, but the whole arcane spell failure thing is kinda silly.

And yeah, I figured that'd be the correct terminology, but eventually I just sort of forgot about it. Got all that changed now.


I think that, given that you aren't getting the versatility of spells, non-limited flight isn't too unreasonable.

Silver Crusade

Excaliburproxy wrote:

I really dig the revised version. You implemented my suggestion in a way that I find super interesting. I am with Ocean: I think the warlock paths are neat and they are a solid way to customize the specialization of your play style.

I am maybe a little worried about arcane cannon. Can you use that ability with iterative attacks? It seems like you shouldn't be able to, but I see nothing to that effect other than my general experience with the game.

If it can't be made with iterative attacks then I say step up the damage perhaps (like increase the d6 by x2 or maybe just x1.5 if you expect people to combine it with quicksilver strike anyways). If it can be made with iterative attacks then I worry that it does not balance well against the normal touch attacks since the later attacks would not see lower save DCs (and there would be a decent amount of guaranteed damage against most enemies).

But yeah: super neato stuff.

Thanks, I wasn't crazy about it at first, but the more I thought of it, the more sense it made. Just another resource that's basically a once a battle ability. most normal combats don't last more than 3 rounds, and for those that do, you'd probably need your Mystic Focus again. I'm not sure if I'm sold on that name, open to suggestions there.

And yeah, changed Arcane Cannon (and Umbral Explosion in two ways:

-Now it's a standard action to activate
-Increases the damage die by two steps (up to 3d6)

So yeah, if you use this as a Entropy/Chaos Warlock, you're getting +4 to your damage die size to max it at 3d6 instead of 1d6, which seems brutal, but it's a standard action, and even with Quicksilver Assault, it's still not Archer level damage.

I'm currently working on two things for the class:

1. A Midnight SG that works for melee since I have two that work for ranged (ranged is the preferred style of the class, obviously)

2. A replacement for Hide in Plain Sight, which is another holdover from The Shade.

Glad to see you're liking the changes, and be sure to let me know if you have any ideas or suggestions.


I like this. I like this a lot. Consider it bookmarked.


N. Jolly wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:

I really dig the revised version. You implemented my suggestion in a way that I find super interesting. I am with Ocean: I think the warlock paths are neat and they are a solid way to customize the specialization of your play style.

I am maybe a little worried about arcane cannon. Can you use that ability with iterative attacks? It seems like you shouldn't be able to, but I see nothing to that effect other than my general experience with the game.

If it can't be made with iterative attacks then I say step up the damage perhaps (like increase the d6 by x2 or maybe just x1.5 if you expect people to combine it with quicksilver strike anyways). If it can be made with iterative attacks then I worry that it does not balance well against the normal touch attacks since the later attacks would not see lower save DCs (and there would be a decent amount of guaranteed damage against most enemies).

But yeah: super neato stuff.

Thanks, I wasn't crazy about it at first, but the more I thought of it, the more sense it made. Just another resource that's basically a once a battle ability. most normal combats don't last more than 3 rounds, and for those that do, you'd probably need your Mystic Focus again. I'm not sure if I'm sold on that name, open to suggestions there.

And yeah, changed Arcane Cannon (and Umbral Explosion in two ways:

-Now it's a standard action to activate
-Increases the damage die by two steps (up to 3d6)

So yeah, if you use this as a Entropy/Chaos Warlock, you're getting +4 to your damage die size to max it at 3d6 instead of 1d6, which seems brutal, but it's a standard action, and even with Quicksilver Assault, it's still not Archer level damage.

I'm currently working on two things for the class:

1. A Midnight SG that works for melee since I have two that work for ranged (ranged is the preferred style of the class, obviously)

2. A replacement for Hide in Plain Sight, which is another holdover from The Shade.

Glad to see you're...

So wait. Are you saying that these powers are capping out at 21d6+cha or 10d6+cha? The former seems too good for at will. That approaches meteor swarm damage to many enemies at will. Perhaps too legit.

Also: I think 1d6 steps up to 1d8 and that steps up to 2d6. 2 size steps usually doubles the damage.

Like so:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Greatsword
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Short_Sword

Silver Crusade

Arwyne Feywatcher wrote:
I like this. I like this a lot. Consider it bookmarked.

Glad you like it, although I'm wondering if I should in fact put this in the conversions section instead, since it is kind of a 3.5 revamp.

Tweaking the Entropy to no longer increase damage die size, it now does Cha mod bonus damage (for 2x Cha mod, not sure if that's too good), so now the most it can go to is a 2d8 instead.

Silver Crusade

Excaliburproxy wrote:

So wait. Are you saying that these powers are capping out at 21d6+cha or 10d6+cha? The former seems too good for at will. That approaches meteor swarm damage to many enemies at will. Perhaps too legit.

Also: I think 1d6 steps up to 1d8 and that steps up to 2d6. 2 size steps usually doubles the damage.

Okay, now I changed back Entropy to the old wording, but now A. Cannon and U. Explosion only increase the die by one step, to a max of 2d8. So 14d8+ Cha mod seems more reasonable. The step down was also done since I figure most people taking either A. Cannon or U. Explosion are going Entropy path anyways, so 2d8 is a good cap for that. It's also still good for the Arcane Overcharge, since it maxes the d8 against a wide range of foes. So it's a matter of either getting an exta d8 or making sure you put down a huge layer of hurt.

Still looking for a replacement for HIPS, thinking some kind of body feeding thing, maybe killing/incapacitating removes one round from Mystic Focus regen time.

Also thinking of limited the number of Hex Fusions to 1+ 1/2 level, since it feels a little high as it is. So now they start with three instead of more likely 6-8, and end with 11. Also wondering if it'd be good to include something that also runs off Hex Fusion pool, in case someone wasn't big on using that.

Also if anyone has any ideas for other Warlock Paths, I'm looking to add one or two more.


I like the hex fusion ruling.

Can I ask something about tricharge? Does that mean that the class can use arcane focus every round? Or should I not count the round that you use the power (so if I used the focus every round, then I would run out on the 4th round and get one back at the 5th round). Maybe it should be that all three (and before that all 2) need to be used before that start to recharge? And then they all recharge at once.

Also: the 1d8 steps up to 2d6 and as such I think maximizing the damage would always be better than stepping up the damage.

Really: I worry that the arcane overcharge ability completely replaces the entropy special ability. It is a really powerful feat. On a d6, the maximization steps up the expected damage by 2.5 per die. Note that stepping from a d6 to a d8 increases the expected damage by only 1 per die; 2 steps up (d6 to 2d6) increases the damage by 3.5 per die; a d8 to 2d6 increases the damage by 2.5 per die; maximizing the d8 steps up the expected damage by 3.5 per die.

Silver Crusade

Excaliburproxy wrote:

I like the hex fusion ruling.

Can I ask something about tricharge? Does that mean that the class can use arcane focus every round? Or should I not count the round that you use the power (so if I used the focus every round, then I would run out on the 4th round and get one back at the 5th round). Maybe it should be that all three (and before that all 2) need to be used before that start to recharge? And then they all recharge at once.

Also: the 1d8 steps up to 2d6 and as such I think maximizing the damage would always be better than stepping up the damage.

Really: I worry that the arcane overcharge ability completely replaces the entropy special ability. It is a really powerful feat. On a d6, the maximization steps up the expected damage by 2.5 per die. Note that stepping from a d6 to a d8 increases the expected damage by only 1 per die; 2 steps up (d6 to 2d6) increases the damage by 3.5 per die; a d8 to 2d6 increases the damage by 2.5 per die; maximizing the d8 steps up the expected damage by 3.5 per die.

Yeah, it seemed like two many uses of it.

I'll admit Tri Focus wasn't incredibly thought out. I might replace it for something else, as it's a bit too many focuses.

I was afraid Arcane Overcharge would be a bit much, so yeah that's gone now. Although god help me, I like the name so much, I think I might change Mystic Focus to that.


A simple fix for Tri Focus: Focus can stack up to 3, regen only one at a time. Nix the last sentence.
That gives them some burst capabilities, and isn't messy to track.

EDIT: Also, Extra Dusk Shadow Gift and Extra Midnight Shadow Gift should be one feat. Compare Extra Hex.

Silver Crusade

Justin Sane wrote:

A simple fix for Tri Focus: Focus can stack up to 3, regen only one at a time. Nix the last sentence.

That gives them some burst capabilities, and isn't messy to track.

EDIT: Also, Extra Dusk Shadow Gift and Extra Midnight Shadow Gift should be one feat. Compare Extra Hex.

Hm, that's not a bad idea. Not sure if I still want to give three focus, especially since it doesn't have a clear point of scaling.

And yeah, I was wrong about the Extra SG feat, thought they were broken up. Thanks for the heads up.

And on progress, cleaned up the wording of AA to make more sense, and replaced HIPS with Wings of the Bat/Beast. It felt like it was a very clear choice to always be picked at 6th, as well as a bit early for permanent flight. Making it the 9th level ability puts it more in line with the power level I want it at and what others expect, and gives me more SG slots to play with, which is important.


Would love to look at this...but alas Google Doc's doesn't seem to like me.

Silver Crusade

nighttree wrote:
Would love to look at this...but alas Google Doc's doesn't seem to like me.

Well, I posted it over on GITP, so check it out there if you want. It's in the most recent version there, although more Shadow Gifts, Warlock Paths, and Feats, as well as alternative Favored Class Bonuses and a sample character will be coming soon enough if I get a little more buzz on this pet project.

Dark Archive

dot

Silver Crusade

Okay, just put up a lot of changes, hoping they were right. Big one is Mystic Focus now takes 4 rounds to recharge, and you have to wait a round before blowing another, so you can't just blow two in a row. Thinking of even pushing it to 5, since there are a few ways to speed up the cool down.

-Umbral Explosion now works with melee AAs, which I should have done to begin with.

-Hex Fusion has more limited uses now, currently being at 1+ 1/2 Warlock level now.

-Few changes to clear up how melee AAs work, and clearing up some language in Ghost Assault.

-Minor change in Eldritch Bomb, now the splash radius comes later, but more free squares from blast radius.

-Viper Strike is now Crippling Surge, no longer a poison effect.

-Hex Backlash now exist, since I didn't feel like I gave enough Hex support, although I'd honestly like more that DOESN'T have to do with save manipulation.

-Two new feats; one for taking a second path, and another for avoiding friendly squares with Umbral Explosion and Arcane Cannon. Although I'm wondering if the feat should just be included in UE and AC naturally instead of requiring a feat tax to do it. It feels like it evens out though, since normal blasters can't do it though.

Also in non mechanical news, changed a bit of the formatting (doubt you'll notice really), decided to chance the picture (to one of Sistah Spooky of Empowered fame), and still deciding on other changes (possibly to Tri Mystic Focus) as well as possibly looking for new names for Mystic Focus and Shadow Gifts.


N. Jolly wrote:
Okay, just put up a lot of changes, hoping they were right. Big one is Mystic Focus now takes 4 rounds to recharge, and you have to wait a round before blowing another, so you can't just blow two in a row. Thinking of even pushing it to 5, since there are a few ways to speed up the cool down.

I'd go the other way. Mystic Focus is the only burst ability this class has. Sometimes, you *really* have to make someone's live hell, that 1-round delay really sucks. Maybe if that was also improved by Path? Curse someone once per round, until you run out of Focus?

Silver Crusade

Justin Sane wrote:
I'd go the other way. Mystic Focus is the only burst ability this class has. Sometimes, you *really* have to make someone's live hell, that 1-round delay really sucks. Maybe if that was also improved by Path? Curse someone once per round, until you run out of Focus?

Yeah, the one round cooldown isn't exactly optimal, so I'll get rid of that. Unless a fight only last two rounds it won't matter much anyways, although it is making me lean towards a 5 round cooldown time, thus making cool down mitigation much more important. Might up the power of SG Specialization to reduce cooldown by 2 levels if I do that to really make it stand out.


N. Jolly wrote:
Justin Sane wrote:
I'd go the other way. Mystic Focus is the only burst ability this class has. Sometimes, you *really* have to make someone's live hell, that 1-round delay really sucks. Maybe if that was also improved by Path? Curse someone once per round, until you run out of Focus?
Yeah, the one round cooldown isn't exactly optimal, so I'll get rid of that. Unless a fight only last two rounds it won't matter much anyways, although it is making me lean towards a 5 round cooldown time, thus making cool down mitigation much more important. Might up the power of SG Specialization to reduce cooldown by 2 levels if I do that to really make it stand out.

I think that might be a good play.

Silver Crusade

Excaliburproxy wrote:
I think that might be a good play.

Hm, thinking 5 rounds is where I'm going to go with things.

Did some playtesting tonight, and the damage is a bit high for what I'd like. Even doubling the dice was brutal, let alone with a Hex Fusion. Hex Fusion was strong, used mostly as a way to buff damage for Arcane Assault.

So the thing I'm getting from this is the buff on Entropy (also not going with that name anymore, thinking of calling it Ruin), changing it to something else, as it was doing around equal damage to a 3 natural attacking Synth Summoner, which isn't a great place to be at.

I'm also thinking the exchange rate for DC to damage for Hex Fusion is a bit low, allowing players to take a DC 18 Hex and dropping it to DC 10 for 6d6+Cha Mod, and then burning Focus with Entropy to make that 12d6. So I'm thinking of either changing how Entropy or burning Focus. But this has given me some food for thought.

Silver Crusade

Bunch of new changes, a lot to names for things.

-Shadow Gifts now have a much better name, Black Arts.

-Crippling Strike is now Gruesome Onslaught, and doesn't work against undead or crit immune stuff.

-Mystic Focus is now Grim Focus.

-Dark Shadow Gift is now Advanced Black Art

-Dusk is now Initiate, and Midnight is now Master.

-Tri is now Triple Grim Focus.

-Entropy Warlock Path is now Destruction.

-Cloak of the Unseen is now Veil of the Unseen.

-Probably others, can't remember them all now.

And onto new stuff

-Grim Focus now has a 5 round cooldown time.

-Smoldering Witchfire Black Art is now a thing, and it's pretty cool.

-Destruction now no longer increases the damage die of AA, it now doubles the Cha mod to damage, which might still be too much, might go with 1/2 cha mod, but not sure if that's too weak.

-Hex Backlash no longer works with Hex Fusion, but does full damage regardless of save.

-Black Art Specialization now decreases GF by 2 rounds instead of one.


If you keep this progresd up, I may have to remake my Dread/Warlock hybrid character into a full-on Warlock.

Speaking of which, you could play around with the Shadow Twin ability from the Dread psionic class.


Does Arcane Assault work with a Conductive weapon ?

Silver Crusade

Shadow_Charlatan wrote:
Does Arcane Assault work with a Conductive weapon ?

I would rule no, since it's not a limited use ability, so you can't 'burn' two uses of it because it doesn't have uses.

Also still thinking of alternative names for Arcane Assault. I was calling it a 'blast' a lot while playtesting it, so I might use something with the word 'blast' in it.

Feeling better about Triple Grim Focus thanks to the 5 round limit now, so while if you were always using your Path ability, you could probably still burn your Grim Focus ever round, but it comes late enough where it's not a huge issues.

Silver Crusade

Arwyne Feywatcher wrote:

If you keep this progresd up, I may have to remake my Dread/Warlock hybrid character into a full-on Warlock.

Speaking of which, you could play around with the Shadow Twin ability from the Dread psionic class.

Glad to hear it, I've put a lot of effort into this class, and I'd say it's nearly done now. Most of what I'm doing is cleaning up terminology and such to make sure it works (a lot of it was left over from the alpha class, The Shade), and working on balancing concerns. At this point, I think I'm finally happy with the name for everything.

Although you mind linking me to that Shadow Twin ability? I've had some urge to add some necromancy and conjuration, but the Summoner has shown me the danger of giving large (or in this case infinite) numbers of summonings.

Silver Crusade

Few more updates, almost done with this class, might throw it over into conversions too.

-New category of Black Art, the (H) category for Hex based Black Arts. None of them will work with Cackle. Right now the limit is at 3, with Master BAs counting as two.

-New Feat, Hex Specialist, raising that limit to 5. 5 feels like a fair number, eventually to 6 at 12th level.

-New Black Art, Hex Blessing, my way of trying to make a Hex focused Warlock more viable. Might need more Master Black Arts to help with Hexes, as there's not nearly enough support for them yet.

-New Black Art, Hex Mirage, giving a Master BA to play with. It feels like most of my Hex based BAs are defensive in nature, but that's mostly because it's hard to make Hexes more offensive without raising DCs, and that's just bananas.

-Grim Focus no longer adds a swift action, I felt that might be abused.

-New Black Art, Hex Overchannel, making a Hex/AB style character more viable.

-New Black Art, Hex Barrier, giving some additional AC. I really like the idea of the Hex style of character being a defensive juggernaut.

-New magic item, Bracers of the Occult, not sure if pricing them the same as regular magic weapons is good, or if it's better to make it 1/2 more expensive.

-New Black Art, Hex Soul Link, forcing a Shield Other effect onto opponents, making you a less viable target. Really pushing Hexing as a viable style.

-Black Arts may now be traded at 4th and every two levels beyond, making sure that bad choices don't ruin a character.

-Arcane Weapon Black Art is now considered a light weapon, regardless of size. Mostly so it can be finessed, which seems like a popular style for Warlocks.

-New Black Art, Hex Rejuvenation, giving the class a way to heal, but not above max, only to half HP, and later to 3/4ths. It's to help give some staying power, and again, Hex combat didn't have a way to make them special, so now Hexing is now far more useful as a defensive measure.

-New Black Art, Hex Blightburn, letting damage orientated Hexers get a psuedobleed much like Smoldering Witchfire, but with no cost in damage. Basically the natural evolution of Hex Backlash (now called Hex Burn)

-New Black Art, Hex Reaver. Not sure if it should steal by default, or if waiting for that to happen at 15th level is better. Looking for suggestions there, but a free dispel on a Hex seems pretty powerful already.

-Few new names, nothing big. Need to work on a few new BAs, maybe another few magic items, and then another week of playtesting and I'll be happy with it.

A few notes on Hex based BAs:

I'm wondering if I should make a limit on how many Hex BAs can stack, possibly 2-3, and more with a feat. Defensive Hexer gives another style of play, with Hex Backlash still letting the player contribute damage. I feel like this will cause people to focus on one or two Hexes, but that's not a bad thing. I'm assuming Sleep/Misfortune/Evil Eye myself, but since the build doesn't need a lot of feats, I'm also assuming that the Hex player will be taking Extra Hex/BA a lot.


The drop of the swift action is smart. That could make the class far too dip-able now that you mention it.

I like the new destruction ability. I don't think it is too powerful. There is an alchemist spell that gives a comparable effect and that lasts multiple rounds.

Now that destruction does not step up the dies size, do you think it is maybe a good idea to step up the die size of the AOEs to 2d6s?

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