Exotic weapon, 2d6, 18-20 / x2 crit range, does it exist?


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Basically a exotic Falchion that does 2d6 instead of 2d4 damage.

Does it exist?

I think the closest is the elven curve blade at 1d10?

Trying to come up with a crit weapon for a vital strike build...


The weapon isnt big enough? ENLARGE IT!


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The Nodachi is not an exotic weapon, it is an Eastern two handed weapon that does 1d10 18-20x2. You can find it in Ultimate Combat.

I'm pretty sure putting Impact on it will up the damage to 2d8, that should do for what you are asking for.


A really sharp greatsword?


Try a large version of a Rhoka?
Since, you know, 1d8 bumps to 2d6 with a size increase. That said, not sure a -2 penalty is worth that.
EDIT: Noticed this is for a vital strike build. Shouldn't hurt too hard.


Right, but i meant just with base stats.

Its kind of funny...but it looks like its better to enlarge a 1d10 -> 2d8 weapon rather than enlarge a 2d4 -> 2d6. I thought a 2d4 weapon would get enlarged to 3d4 or something, not a measly 2d6. The difference between 1d10 and 2d4 is minimal, the difference between 2d8 and 2d6 is much larger.

Is there a complete chart for this, the one in the equipment section only includes small to large sizes.


Base stats? Doesn't exist to my knowledge. The progression here is analogous for weapon dice sizes.


On second though im not sure if impact is a good idea in this case. It doesnt stack with enlarge person IIRC, and thats a level 1 buff that should be going up every battle unless you are fighting in a small space.

So we have two scenarios : +1 impact no dachi vs +3 falchion with enlarge. The falchion would obviously be doing more damage here...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think +3 No Dachi with Enlarge > +3 Falchion with Enlarge.
Both Martial, Slashing.
+3 2d8 vs. +3 2d6.
No Dachi also has the brace property.


Why doesn't Impact stack with Enlarge? I'm not saying it doesn't; just curious. Do either stack with Lead Blades? I played an oni-blooded tiefling ranger once who dished out some serious damage with a Large bastard sword on a Vital Strike build


I cant remember the exact argument...

But since vital strike is so dependant on number of weapon dice, i was hoping to find a weapon like the falchion with 2d4 or better damage and a 18-20 crit range.


Wait why should Enlarge be going up every combat?

Dat 1 Round cast time mang. Better off casting something that takes effect BEFORE round 2.


? Its a cheap, low level buff that massively increases the damage of any martial character.


Question wrote:

On second though im not sure if impact is a good idea in this case. It doesnt stack with enlarge person IIRC, and thats a level 1 buff that should be going up every battle unless you are fighting in a small space.

So we have two scenarios : +1 impact no dachi vs +3 falchion with enlarge. The falchion would obviously be doing more damage here...

They do stack.

What doesn't stack is Lead Blades (which is required for the Impact ability. Bonuses from same source don't stack AND wording is the same.)

Enlarge Person ==> Weapons held become 1 size larger
Impact ==> weapons do damage as 1 size larger. Not 1 size larger than the original size (wording is important here).

So weapon becomes Large and does Huge damage.


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Question wrote:
? Its a cheap, low level buff that massively increases the damage of any martial character.

It's a cheap, low level buff, better spent on casting something like Haste which takes effect immediately, and actually IS a massive increase to damage.

Enlarge Person is a miniscule increase to damage (+1 damage from Str, yippee). All of its power comes from the Reach it grants.

It's solid as a potion, but nobody should ever be CASTING it in combat since the cast time is too long. It uses your whole turn to buff one guy.


Huh i didnt realise it was nerfed to having a 1 round casting time in PF. That makes it much less useful.

The psionic version does have it as a standard action to cast, but thats kind of hard to get with the build i was thinking of.

I was thinking of having a soul knife with vital strike and psychic strike to do lots of damage on a single standard action.

Liberty's Edge

Question wrote:
Huh i didnt realise it was nerfed to having a 1 round casting time in PF. That makes it much less useful.

By "in PF" you mean "in 3.5 and PF didn't change it," right?


Casting enlarge person on the fighter is a great pre-fight buff. It's only worth casting in combat at low level when you don't have a lot else to do with your caster, or if the fighter really needs the reach. Since it's low level, you can potion or scroll up a few for pretty cheap.

Lead blades and impact are the same enchantment and don't stack.

2d6 18-20/x2 is basically the stats of the hypothetical best weapon you could use. Don't expect it to exist.

For a vital strike build, I think base damage dice is better than crit range since vital strike dice doesn't multiply on crit. A greatsword with 2d6 19-20/x2 is pretty great. Large bastard swords have the -2 attack, but if you're using furious focus and are properly boosting your attack bonuses, it probably won't miss anyway.

So in summary, a large impact bastard sword swung by an enlarged fighter is a -2 attack, 4d8 19-20/x2 weapon. Whump.


Aha, but if you're an oni-blooded tiefling you can select an alternate racial trait to negate that -2 penalty, my friend. Optimum!

EDIT: Sorry; it's just a trait, actually. From Blood of Fiends...


Someday I need to go read the advanced race guide.


Not yet.
But soon


How does wielding oversized weapons work? I was under the assumption that you could only wield a oversized, one handed weapon with two hands, but you would still take a -2 penalty?


If you have exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword, it counts as a one handed weapon. Seems silly, but the pathfinder iconic barbarian does it.


Okay but in that case you are still paying a -2 attack penalty just to go from 2d6 to 2d8.

Lantern Lodge

Another option, if you want to go for reach is the Fauchard, from classic horrors revisted. 18-20x2, reach and trip.


page 21 of Blood of Fiends:

"Traits
The following are race traits for hungerseed (oni-blooded tieflings).

Big Boned: Your ancestors’ great size has gifted you with
an exceptionally sturdy frame. You gain a +1 trait bonus on
combat maneuver checks made to overrun opponents, as
well as a +1 trait bonus to your CMD against trip attempts.

Superior Clutch: Your hands not only are bigger than
normal, but also have a strong grip useful for wielding
large weapons. You gain a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls
when using weapons intended for creatures of a larger size."

page 16, from the table of variant tiefling abilities:

"16. You have oversized limbs, allowing you to use
Large weapons without penalty."

If your GM will let you pick an ability off that table rather than roll on it (as the book suggests can be allowed), you could combine that with being a hunger seed and picking Superior clutch as one of your traits (if your campaign does traits), and voila!

Lantern Lodge

Still can't wield a large two handed weapon with just two medium limbs, even if it is at reduced penalty...


No, but that's why you spring for EWP Bastard Sword. Large One-Handed Weapon, 2d8 base damage, no penalty, +1 on damage rolls. Am I missing something here?


Ethereal Gears wrote:
No, but that's why you spring for EWP Bastard Sword. Large One-Handed Weapon, 2d8 base damage, no penalty, +1 on damage rolls. Am I missing something here?

I think everybody is talking about different things.

Yes, take tiefling, get some oversized limbs, an exotic weapon proficiency in bastard sword, and swing away.

If you don't want to look silly with your arms dragging on the ground, you take a -2 penalty to attack or move down to greatsword.


Even better, pick up a Huge Sunblade. Sunblade counts as a light weapon but still deals damage as a Bastard Sword and a Medium creature can wield a Huge Sunblade as a 2-h weapon. Then tack on Enlarge and Lead Blades and you're good to go with your fighter jet-sized sword.


Well its rather min maxy i supose, DMs might not react well to that. I guess you are still spending a feat to go from 2d6 to 2d8, which is not a very large improvement for a feat...


Oh, alright. Yeah, I suppose someone might have a problem with the whole big hands tiefling schtick from a flavor point of view; I get how that might not fly in certain campaigns. I'm just thinking that damage bump matters more since we're talking a Vital Strike build. I don't know how min maxy it is to try to optimize a VS build in the first place, though. Anyway, sorry for the confusion; just trying to help!


Well, If you're going all in on a vital strike build so you take a level in barbarian so you can get furious finish, the difference between a 2d6 greatsword and a 2d8 large bastard sword after buffing is like 24 points of damage.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

master_marshmallow wrote:

The Nodachi is not an exotic weapon, it is an Eastern two handed weapon that does 1d10 18-20x2. You can find it in Ultimate Combat.

I'm pretty sure putting Impact on it will up the damage to 2d8, that should do for what you are asking for.

This was going to be my recommendation as well. The nodachi takes a pretty solid stab at competing for the best martial weapon in the game.

Grand Lodge

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Grab a 18-20/x2 weapon. Get Weapon Focus for that weapon. Be a Warpriest.


Again, the Nodachi is the statistically best weapon that isn't exotic.
1d10 and 18-20x2 is better than 2d4, which means it is superior to the falchion in almost every way.

It is also better than the elven curve blade on the grounds that the ECB is exotic.

Silver Crusade

By the time you have increased your weapon two steps it's all d6's anyway. So just forget the rest of that nonsense. You'll be looking at either 3d6 or 4d6 depending on your weapon choice. Mathematically the crit threat ranges/multipliers all yield the same damage. (Yes there is some variance based on accuracy but this is a Vital Strike build.) Any real use you get out of a heavy crit weapon will come from Attacks of Opportunity and reach. You get the same use out of a low crit build with more consistent damage.

The choice is yours, but there is a -lot- to be said for just doing 50 damage every swing. It's like driving the steamroller over the Gremlins.


I dont know why people have been suggesting warpriest with vital strike. The sacred weapon die is inferior to the regular weapon die until very high levels or mid levels + enlarge. You also dont have the BAB to get power attack/vital strike as you only get full BAB "when attacking", not for the purpose of feats.

IMHO 2d4 is superior to 1d10. Statistically speaking you will get higher rolls with 2d4. 5.5 being the "average" of 1d10 means nothing as you can NEVER get a real world result of 5.5 on a 1d10.


master_marshmallow wrote:

Again, the Nodachi is the statistically best weapon that isn't exotic.

1d10 and 18-20x2 is better than 2d4, which means it is superior to the falchion in almost every way.

It is also better than the elven curve blade on the grounds that the ECB is exotic.

You're gonna need to explain this one to me because between the Nodachi and Falchion should have the same average damage (around 5), but the Falchion has a higher minimum (2 vs 1).

Silver Crusade

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Question wrote:

I dont know why people have been suggesting warpriest with vital strike. The sacred weapon die is inferior to the regular weapon die until very high levels or mid levels + enlarge. You also dont have the BAB to get power attack/vital strike as you only get full BAB "when attacking", not for the purpose of feats.

IMHO 2d4 is superior to 1d10. Statistically speaking you will get higher rolls with 2d4. 5.5 being the "average" of 1d10 means nothing as you can NEVER get a real world result of 5.5 on a 1d10.

I mean, it's just maths... No need to start accusing it of having no meaning.

After all, you know what I can get on a d10? a 10. I haven't rolled that on 2d4 yet. I keep hoping, though. Optimisim, right?

Also, while I'm thinking about it: 8, 9, and 10... I get that 30% of the time. Like, one in three almost. On 2d4 I get 8, oh... one in sixteen times. That's rough. That imaginary 5.5 guy gets your best damage or better five times for your every one.

I mean, it doesn't mean anything though. It's just maths...


Rynjin wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

Again, the Nodachi is the statistically best weapon that isn't exotic.

1d10 and 18-20x2 is better than 2d4, which means it is superior to the falchion in almost every way.

It is also better than the elven curve blade on the grounds that the ECB is exotic.

You're gonna need to explain this one to me because between the Nodachi and Falchion should have the same average damage (around 5), but the Falchion has a higher minimum (2 vs 1).

Average (mean) roll on d10 = 5.5 (or five-and-a-half) while the average (mean & median) AND most common roll on 2d4 = 5. While 1/2 a point doesn't seem like much over the span of hundreds of damage rolls it becomes significant. In actual play I find that the more consistent damage of 2d4 is preferable to the erratic 1d10, but in terms of statistics in a vacuum 1d10 beats 2d4.


cnetarian wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

Again, the Nodachi is the statistically best weapon that isn't exotic.

1d10 and 18-20x2 is better than 2d4, which means it is superior to the falchion in almost every way.

It is also better than the elven curve blade on the grounds that the ECB is exotic.

You're gonna need to explain this one to me because between the Nodachi and Falchion should have the same average damage (around 5), but the Falchion has a higher minimum (2 vs 1).
Average (mean) roll on d10 = 5.5 (or five-and-a-half) while the average (mean & median) AND most common roll on 2d4 = 5. While 1/2 a point doesn't seem like much over the span of hundreds of damage rolls it becomes significant. In actual play I find that the more consistent damage of 2d4 is preferable to the erratic 1d10, but in terms of statistics in a vacuum 1d10 beats 2d4.

Seems to me that statistically more consistent = better.

Since that half a point doesn't count for anything in a realistic sense. Even if you could roll a 5.5, you round down in this game. So really it comes down to you rolling either a 5 or a 6, but you have a possibility of rolling a 1 (similar statistical possibility as rolling higher than average which is a 6), which the Falchion does not.

Silver Crusade

The more times you roll, the more consistent the better statistic is. In the end, it's just academic. With this type of build the character is rolling several d6's. Even if that were not the case, it's the static damage bonus that's important. 5, 5.5, 4.5, 4, 6.5, These are all modest variances. The only really important question on your weapon choice is what you like swinging around. Everything else is about piling on damage bonus.

Grand Lodge

I was under the impression that the Falcata was the best for average damage.


We were talking non-Exotic.

Grand Lodge

Ah.

Silver Crusade

It is. Found here the Falcata is a great one-handed weapon that you can wield in two hands for the big bonus. With improved threat range you could get x3 20% of the time.

Grand Lodge

ErrantPursuit wrote:
It is. Found here the Falcata is a great one-handed weapon that you can wield in two hands for the big bonus. With improved threat range you could get x3 20% of the time.

You could get a Large one too.

Silver Crusade

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blackbloodtroll wrote:
ErrantPursuit wrote:
It is. Found here the Falcata is a great one-handed weapon that you can wield in two hands for the big bonus. With improved threat range you could get x3 20% of the time.
You could get a Large one too.

And put spikes on it.

And skulls.

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