I have the concept down just the class has me bouncing back and forth.
CG alignment either way. City based campaign. Starting level 1
What I have read on the Swashbuckler has been promising with flair but not sure it is very optimal.
Will have a paladin and mage in the group. Not sure of third character yet. Im guessing some kind of ranged.
Thoughts?
The advanced classes certainly seem interesting and I am eager to see what they are finalized as. But I have not had the chance to play one yet.
I have played a ninja and a rogue. Rogues are really hard to make effective, if there is a wizard in the party he can do your utility better and faster and usually with nearly as much skill, if there is a ranger he can out damage, out hit, and out ability rogue in general. The Ninja can really help with the damage issue with rogues (Vanish can be quite good at later levels) and Ninjas gain lots of mobility advantages in general (light steps, ki climb, pass through walls, shadow step, etc) that a swashbuckler wouldn't get. Ninjas also have the opportunity to use the katana or 2 keen wakisashis for massive crit potential (plus sneak). The Ninja, because it is a DEX class that lacks AC bonuses is very squishy, swashbuckler has shields and dodge as well as +DEX AC class abilities that make them more tanky.
Both seem a little situational and require set ups to be effective in battle, I often find my Vanished Ninja wasting full round attacks trying to get into a position to assist the party, not get trapped and killed by Aoo's, and also getting into the right flanking position. I have spent entire fights getting into position only to have the gunslinger pop my target from 100ft away, this annoys my party because I am a waste of turns they could have spent doing something.
When my Ninja does fight, I am usually a one hit wonder (full round, Sneak, crit, bleed). But once the enemy loses Flat Footed and know I am around I can take very few fireballs to my square (no evasion). So I am usually downed or forced to run and heal, which means the fight is over for me, and the party is annoyed that I couldn't keep up. A swashbuckler should have a lot more staying power, and since you will be visible it is a lot easier for the mage to support you as well. The swashbuckler can keep up and fight beside a Paladin rather than remain across the battlefield.
On the other hand it is really fun playing an invisible catfolk ninja with claws for sudden attacks that can sneak anywhere, go anywhere and gather information and scout VERY effectively (in a city a Ninja can really shine with local KNOWs, climbs, disable device window locks, linguistics to forge, and contact poison on the baddies pants). This also means I spent a lot of time playing while the party dithers about waiting for em to work, which annoys the players. The swashbuckler seems a lot more direct and thematically could be an interesting personality counter to a stiff Paladin.
Thank you so much for your post Guardianlord.
I am very heavily leaning towards the Swashbuckler but what little reservations I have left is because of the character initially written as a ninja and not necessarily utility. I havent played a rogue in a very long time but it does seem that it is a class that has to set up to be effective...something I really fail at patience wise.
While the Swashbuckler may lag behind in damage to the ninja, potential for flair and gamestyle of play may fit me more
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Both have their merits.
I haven't had a chance to play a Swashbuckler yet either but It seriously interests me as well. d10 Hit dice, good flair, decent social skills that help in PFS, and has potential for different types of builds.
Ninja has the damage with sneak attack. But if we all played character for damage then only a few classes would there be. The coolness of being able to just step up without worrying about flank is very nice option. In PFS combat can sometimes be rather tame and a Swashbuckler can defiantly shine in the right scenarios.
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It is freaking hilarious that this was posted. I have been working on a ninja for PFS (and trying to start a conversation about it, although it seems no one cares... D: ) and on a whim, I opened my ACG play test and was flipping through. I've never really looked at it and I have to say that maybe the Investigator (Super skill monkey?) and the Swashbuckler (lightly armored combaty type!) might be more up my alley than the Ninja who vanishes, sneak attacks, vanishes, sneak attacks, vanishes, sneak attacks...
The benefits to playing a Ninja are:
1) It has been around for a bit. You can get tips and tricks, read guides and get feats and equipment specifically designed for the class.
2) Depending on certain circumstances, you can deal so much sneak attack damage every single player in the group will need to loan you some d6's.
3) Utility is awesome and Ninja have a lot of it.
Cons:
1) Sometimes, benefit 2 never happens. You start gearing up for an adventure and your party leader says "Hey, I heard about this place called The Den of Ooze!" At that point, you might as well throw your sneak attack dice away because you aren't getting any today. (Note: Reread the rules on sneak attack. I only recently did and discovered that a lot of the rules have been ingrained in us from past editions and my entire PFS group (which numbers around 30) has been doing it wrong. )
2) You have a role. That role is the Thief. (Or the Corpse, depending on who you ask). Some people don't mind having a clearly defined role that they are expected to do. I hate it. I hate when people see the Cleric and go "Oh, no need to buy Potions or Wands. He will take care of it!" or see a Bard and go "Well, I don't have to put points into social skills or charisma!" For you, whenever ANYTHING requiring anything even vaguely sneaky comes up, it is 100% your job. And if you get a crappy roll, then people will give you crap for not doing your job right.
3) I debate how exciting it will be to RP a ninja. Their secondary stat is Charisma, but traditionally, Ninja are very bland characters in most media. They do some badass stuff, but do it stoically and without any flare. And while that makes sense, I think it is kind of boring.
The Swashbuckler on the other hand:
1) You are brand new! Look how new you are! Bright eyed and full of hope! You haven't been put through the grind yet and all of your abilities haven't been rated with colors and stars. Theorycraftrs haven't sullied you yet at all! You can be free to try and do what you want! Go wild!
2) No armor! Well, light armor, but that is practically no armor at all! Some people love that silly stuff, but I hate it. It is expensive as crap and hard to move in and it makes it really easy for you to drown... But not you! You can wake up, naked as the day you wear born (and with your Charisma score, chances are you are waking up with some individuals of your chosen gender, you dog, you.) and still kick a ton of butt. You can run circles around those silly Paladins and Fighters, swing from chandeliers and most importantly, not lose your level 9 Paladin who fell off the boat! (Moment of silence for all the drowned Paladins of the world)
3) You invoke some of the greatest imagery. Playing a swashbuckler will make you want to channel characters like the Three Musketeers and Jack Sparrow and Zorro! Swing from ropes! Spout witty lines! Seduce Kira Knightly (Or Orlando Bloom, which ever)
Cons:
1) You are brand new! ...which means you will be going in blind. Sure, someone who played a Duelist might have some ideas and the class has a lot of overlap with Gunslingers, but if you want the most optimal build... you might have to work a bit for it? Certain things from other classes might transfer over, but we won't know until the book comes out in August. Also, we don't have the whole picture yet. There might be a dozen amazing feats and awesome new equipment made specifically for the Swashbuckler. And you will have to wait til August to see it.
2) Don't ever. EVER. get caught flat footed. Ever. You are naked. You have nothing to protect you if you weren't paying attention.
3) You will probably be a stereotype. While Pro #3 is awesome... people might start expecting you to be quoting Pirates of the Carribean and if they don't... they will probably do it for you... at great length. Monty Python comes to mind. Making the coconut joke to the Cavalier is only funny so many times...
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I say go for Uncharted waters. Sounds like your more interested in it anyways so you don't have to be fitted to a set job. Heck that makes me wanna play one. Not having a set role would actually take a lot of pressure off me and my feat selections and not fall back into the thinking of Optimizing because it is demanded of your role.
I think of Syrio Forel from Game of Thrones.
"Syrio Forel- Do you pray to the gods?
Arya Stark- The Old and the New.
Syrio Forel- There is only one god, and His name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: "not today".