A... Burning question or two.


Rules Questions


I have an encounter plotted out where the PCs happen upon a courtyard in a monastery where three holy men have been gruesomely crucifies on large wooden "X's". The man in the center was burned, and all that remains is the charred skeleton in blackened, loose-fitting armor.

In my head, as the other two corpses (zombies) pull themselves free to attack the PCs, the skeleton bursts into flames and leaps into the Frey. I was curious if the burning skeleton template can be added to skeletal champion.

On an unrelated side note: Do templates applied to living creatures like Half-Dragon and Half-Fiend still apply to their unread counterparts? Could a Half-Dragon or Half-Fiend Orc be raised as a Zombie Lord?


Burning skeleton CAN be added on top of Skeletal champion. Notice how it says under the individual templates that it cannot be applied to undead creatures... This rule is superseeded by this: Skeleton go to Variant skeleton where it specifically states that skeletal templates can be stacked with each other. So the short answer: Yes it can be stacked.

Zombie lord specifies that it can be applied to any corporeal creature. As half-dragon or half-fiend or orc for that matter doesn't change the creature away from corporeal then yes you could apply zombie lord on top of them.


I don't see why you couldn't add the "Burning Skeleton" template to the Skeletal Champion. Just be mindful that the Burning Skeleton template adds a +1 to the CR along with its other nasty abilities like "Fiery Death"; make sure the party can handle that.

You are the GM, and you can create anything you want. Try not to let the rules get in the way of your creativity (just use them as guidelines to keep the balance). As long as everyone is having a good time - go for it!


Tiberius777 wrote:

I don't see why you couldn't add the "Burning Skeleton" template to the Skeletal Champion. Just be mindful that the Burning Skeleton template adds a +1 to the CR along with its other nasty abilities like "Fiery Death"; make sure the party can handle that.

You are the GM, and you can create anything you want. Try not to let the rules get in the way of your creativity (just use them as guidelines to keep the balance). As long as everyone is having a good time - go for it!

While the OP's example is actually doable within the rules I wholeheartedly agree. If it is a home game and changing the rules will lead to more fun for EVERYONE then change them. Just be mindful that you understand what you do when you change those rules, because sometimes changing the rules can have unforeseen consequences.

The way I do it, when I change the rules is that I make it very clear what the intended consequences of the rules change is and that if it somehow leads to other consequences it will have to be adressed seperately.


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GrundyThunderfist wrote:

I have an encounter plotted out where the PCs happen upon a courtyard in a monastery where three holy men have been gruesomely crucifies on large wooden "X's". The man in the center was burned, and all that remains is the charred skeleton in blackened, loose-fitting armor.

In my head, as the other two corpses (zombies) pull themselves free to attack the PCs, the skeleton bursts into flames and leaps into the Frey. I was curious if the burning skeleton template can be added to skeletal champion.

Yes

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On an unrelated side note: Do templates applied to living creatures like Half-Dragon and Half-Fiend still apply to their unread counterparts? Could a Half-Dragon or Half-Fiend Orc be raised as a Zombie Lord?

Technically yes but you lose a fair amount of abilities. What you would do is create the half dragon or half feind and then apply the zombie template to it.


Thank you gents. I can continue on my quest of striking fear into the hearts of my players.


Kolokotroni wrote:
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On an unrelated side note: Do templates applied to living creatures like Half-Dragon and Half-Fiend still apply to their unread counterparts? Could a Half-Dragon or Half-Fiend Orc be raised as a Zombie Lord?
Technically yes but you lose a fair amount of abilities. What you would do is create the half dragon or half feind and then apply the zombie template to it.

What exactly is it that you lose? As far as I can see the only thing from the half-dragon that you lose is the +6 constitution.


Lifat wrote:


What exactly is it that you lose? As far as I can see the only thing from the half-dragon that you lose is the +6 constitution.

Hit Dice: A skeleton drops any HD gained from class levels and changes racial HD to d8s. Creatures without racial HD are treated as if they have 1 racial HD. If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can't be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell. A skeleton uses its Cha modifier (instead of its Con modifier) to determine bonus hit points.

Saves: Base save bonuses are Fort +1/3 HD, Ref +1/3 HD, and Will +1/2 HD + 2.

Defensive Abilities: A skeleton loses the base creature's defensive abilities and gains DR 5/bludgeoning and immunity to cold. It also gains all of the standard immunities and traits possessed by undead creatures.

Speed: A winged skeleton can't use its wings to fly. If the base creature flew magically, so can the skeleton. All other movement types are retained.

Attacks: A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can't work without flesh. A creature with hands gains one claw attack per hand; the skeleton can strike with each of its claw attacks at its full attack bonus. A claw attack deals damage depending on the skeleton's size (see Natural Attacks). If the base creature already had claw attacks with its hands, use the skeleton claw damage only if it's better.

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Armor Class: Natural armor is based on the zombie's size:

You lose/reduce the +4 nat armor bonus unless your half dragon is at least huge sized.

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Hit Dice: Drop HD gained from class levels (minimum of 1) and change racial HD to d8s. Zombies gain a number of additional HD as noted on the following table.
Lose any class levels
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Zombies use their Charisma modifiers to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).

Con modifier pointless

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Saves: Base save bonuses are Fort +1/3 HD, Ref +1/3 HD, and Will +1/2 HD + 2.

Defensive Abilities: Zombies lose their defensive abilities and gain all of the qualities and immunities granted by the undead type. Zombies gain DR 5/slashing.

Lose immunity to sleep, paralysis, and energy of the same type as its breath weapon.

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Speed: Winged zombies can still fly, but maneuverability drops to clumsy. If the base creature flew magically, so can the zombie. Retain all other movement types.

weakened flight

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Attacks: A zombie retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. It also gains a slam attack that deals damage based on the zombie's size, but as if it were one size category larger than its actual size (see Natural Attacks).

Special Attacks: A zombie retains none of the base creature's special attacks.

Lose breath weapon

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Special Qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks. A zombie gains the following special quality.

Lose lowlight vision and darkvision

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