where to focus:


Advice


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THE DILLEMA:
a druid can alsways grapple.
a druid can alsways summon.
a druid cant master the 2 the same time....
i wonder what will aid to better all of us more? augument summoning VS greater grapple?
(*** note DM agree greater grapple can be used at round 1 after grab**(
both can be reached at level 9.
i dont like dipping other class as i am the only full caster and wish to stay at top notch for spells.

backround:
i play a saurian druid, in a semi low magic world .
no buying items, no crafting othere than wands or scrolls.
DM give items, but at a slow rate and never "wish list".
how ever - he is a great DM and make sure combat stay balance and never let us fight stuff we can't handle.

the group are:
magus: great damage dealer but selfish, always cast spells on self or damage - never buff others.
bard: buff master that fight with long spear. is here "for the team"
ranger, elf archer : hide behind a puma - to shoot for the kill. nice DPR, and scout master.
a fighter that use critical, perfoemance and 2 kukries. not optimize but holds his own.
and me: a saurian druid, with Trex pet.

my bulid is made for versitility - my goal is to do several things:
1. clsoe the gap for the lack of healer with scribe scrolls of cure light wounds (after combat heals only ... but still...)
2. track master.
3. me and the pet mostly melee - tanking a BBEG alone to give others time to "clean the area" and come for the kill. with planar wild shape
a druid can be great tank.
4. use spells to control the battle field.

my duild:
16 13 14 10 16 10 (22 buy at level 4)
feat planning have 2 options :
option 1:
1. imp. unarmed + imp. grapple
3. scribe scrolls
5. natural spell
7. planar wild shape
9. power attack (bonus) + greater grapple
11. rapid grapple

option 2:
1. conj focus + augument summoing
3. scribe scrolls
5. natural spell
7. planar wild shape
9. power attack (bonus) + vital strike
11. superior summon OR divine intervation

which will prove better?
grapple will allow to pin at round 1 (at least some foes) making them unable to attack.
summon will allow huge meat shield to aid with damage reciveing + vital strike combo with hippo can bring HUGE damage to the table (4d8>>8d8>>16d8 with 1 spell)


- You gain the grab ability in wildshape as soon as level 6, as well as constrict at level 8.

- Your pet gets grab at level 7, too. Heck, with a one point increase to Int, you could teach your T-Rex greater grapple!

- You can always just summon something with grab and lots of attacks like a tiger.

There really isn't any reason for a druid to invest in grapple beyond all this so you should really focus on casting/summoning. Remember that Augment Summoning also helps your creature's CMB by increasing its strenght.


i agree but... and there is a but :
greater grapple alow 3 things:

1. attack once with vital strike and power attack >> grab >> move action for greater grapple >> opponent is pinned >> redo = win
2.rapid grapple = another one
3. plant with constirct : attack > grab > constrict 2-3 times a round while opponent is pinned.

but i agree summon is more potent as grapple wont work always, and for destryong casters grab wil do.

as for TREX :
build 1:
1. power attack
2. toughness
5. improve bull rush
8. improve natural attack
10. vital strike or awesome blow

build 2:
1. power attack
2. toughness
5. improve unarmed
8. improve grapple
10. greater grapple


Well, okay, I normally stick with base druids since I believe the archetypes really hurt the druid player. However, if you are fully intent on playing a Saurian Shaman, you have to remember you access wildshape at level 6 instead of level 4, unless you of course access lizard/dinosaur animals, then it acts like you're level 8 (which of course, you should, since that will give you access to most of the stuff).

So, which lizard/dinosaur is good at grappling? Let's say you take Allosaurus, which gets +GRAB on its bite attack. It also has POUNCE and RAKE, making it a good choice. That's about the only one with GRAB. The downside is that the creature is HUGE size category, meaning you can't really get it inside a lot of places.

Looking at lizards, you could be a giant Chameleon, with a sticky tongue for grab (no damage though).

So, if you want to grapple, you need to wild shape into a creature that has the GRAB ability. That's essentially the Allosaurus, and that's only on one attack, and it requires you to be huge.

OR, you could play a base druid, and at level 6 (same level as a Saurian Shaman) get access to the Dire Tiger, a large cat that has 3 attacks, all with GRAB. It has POUNCE, and at level 8 you get RAKE for 5 attacks on a charge, 3 of which will GRAB the opponent.

So, if you really want to play Saurian Shaman, I'd focus on casting since you +Grab is fairly limited on lizards/dinosaurs. Again, why archetypes for druids mostly suck.

Furthermore, you don't need to "focus" on conjuring. You get the ability to swap out any spell with a summon nature ally. While those are helpful critters, it's not your primary damage dealing like it would be for a summoning wizard. You're usually far better off charging in with a POUNCE ability (and your pet charging with POUNCE as well) and grappling the enemy than wasting a turn summoning a monster. I'd only do it when charging in is really dangerous.

Lastly, if you're playing a low magic world, I'd focus on defensive feats. Dodge, save boosting feats, Defensive Combat Training, etc. If you're a standard druid, your casting is fine, your grapple is fine. Your AC sucks and your saves could use a hand. If you were in a high magic world, I'd throw a feat into Heavy Armor Proficiency and get dragonscale armor with +wild on it to help with the AC issue.


Moondragon Starshadow wrote:

Well, okay, I normally stick with base druids since I believe the archetypes really hurt the druid player. However, if you are fully intent on playing a Saurian Shaman, you have to remember you access wildshape at level 6 instead of level 4, unless you of course access lizard/dinosaur animals, then it acts like you're level 8 (which of course, you should, since that will give you access to most of the stuff).

So, which lizard/dinosaur is good at grappling? Let's say you take Allosaurus, which gets +GRAB on its bite attack. It also has POUNCE and RAKE, making it a good choice. That's about the only one with GRAB. The downside is that the creature is HUGE size category, meaning you can't really get it inside a lot of places.

Looking at lizards, you could be a giant Chameleon, with a sticky tongue for grab (no damage though).

So, if you want to grapple, you need to wild shape into a creature that has the GRAB ability. That's essentially the Allosaurus, and that's only on one attack, and it requires you to be huge.

OR, you could play a base druid, and at level 6 (same level as a Saurian Shaman) get access to the Dire Tiger, a large cat that has 3 attacks, all with GRAB. It has POUNCE, and at level 8 you get RAKE for 5 attacks on a charge, 3 of which will GRAB the opponent.

So, if you really want to play Saurian Shaman, I'd focus on casting since you +Grab is fairly limited on lizards/dinosaurs. Again, why archetypes for druids mostly suck.

Furthermore, you don't need to "focus" on conjuring. You get the ability to swap out any spell with a summon nature ally. While those are helpful critters, it's not your primary damage dealing like it would be for a summoning wizard. You're usually far better off charging in with a POUNCE ability (and your pet charging with POUNCE as well) and grappling the enemy than wasting a turn summoning a monster. I'd only do it when charging in is really dangerous.

Lastly, if you're playing a low magic world, I'd focus on defensive feats. Dodge, save boosting...

i disagree on archtype being worse,

1. saurian get wild shape at level 4, at level 6 it act's as level 4/8 depend on what you turn into.
2. saurian get to summon as standart action which makes summon so muhch better.
3. i know all druid can summon, but without the feats the summon creatures are only good if used as highest level - with augument summon you can use lower level and be ok .
4. the bonus feats are great.

i agree tiger is supreme, and i will have it only as level 8 (10 for rake) --- but other abilities make it worth it.
(also, the behemoth will arrive later..)

list of grab creatures: as a level 6 :
medium: lizard monitor, snake constrictor
large: crocodile
huge: crocodile saltwater, allosauraus, megatherium (grab and poison)

second level spell give grab to any creatures.
DM allow animal companion type animal as wild shape (its not a template) .
you can use grapple with the feats with any creature....

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