Disarming alchemist bombs


Rules Questions


In our last session my players went up against an alchemist. One of my players decided to take a ready action to try to disarm the alchemists bombs before he could throw them.

I couldn't find any rules on how to handle this situation so i ruled that the alchemist dropped his bomb and it scattered and exploded where it landed dealing splash damage as normal, but no direct hit.

My question is, are there any rules governing this kind of situation and can you even try to disarm alchemist bombs? How about normal splash weapons? How would you have handled this kind of situation.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Shadow Lodge

Hmm, that's a good one. They are a weapon, though one that is only in existence for a brief moment. I'd say you made the right call. I believe by disarm rules the weapon drops at the wielder's feet so the splash would be centered on the alchemist. Sure you can disarm an acid flask from someone's hand. There's nothing that specifically says a bottle of acid breaks when dropped, but I don't think thats the kind of thing that should have to be written out. Its designed to break when thrown so yeah, treat it like a miss and do splash damage.

As a side note, throwing a bomb provokes, so most people wouldn't do so with someone close enough to disarm them, so this is kind of a rare occasion to come up.


Bombs & other alchemical are thrown weapons that basically explode when they hit a hard surface. So yes, I think you handled it correctly. Ground takes bomb damage (o noes!) & splash damage all around.


A good solution and so RAW as possible :)

Sczarni

A very good solution indeed.


Quote:
As a side note, throwing a bomb provokes, so most people wouldn't do so with someone close enough to disarm them, so this is kind of a rare occasion to come up.

The alchemist was cornered and out of options so he tried to use his last bomb to take down the paladin that was mostly unhurt and hit the hardest. The pc in question had a reach weapon and was the only one that threatened and he missed with his attack of opportunity.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Outlaw Corwin wrote:
Ground takes bomb damage (o noes!) & splash damage all around.

Two words...

Rope Bridge.


I think you handled it correctly, no one takes direct damage and everyone within splash range takes splash damage. Bombs are certainly weapons, so they can be disarmed, and it is reasonable that dropping them would cause them to explode since they're designed to break when being thrown, though it is possible it wouldn't be quite enough force.


A quick derail: what if your player had decided to sunder instead to disarm?
If the bottle was destroyed (which is very likely, given that it is supposed to break if it hits a hard surface), would the alchemist get the full damage?


You know...thats a good question.

I guess it would depend on how the readied action was stated, which should have been brought up before.

If the trigger was when he start making the bomb its not complete and doesn't explode because the chemicals haven't been mixed. If it is complete then it should explode, but I think it still will only deal splash damage.

There are no rules really, just opinions.

Sczarni

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You actually couldn't do that due to the nature of the bomb action. The Alchemist bomb action is a standard action in which you draw, create and throw the bomb. It is all a single action (Standard action). The ready action goes off before the action it is readied against, therefore it would go off before he has drawn and created the bomb, thus he could not ready that action, per RAW. It is the nature of the action economy.

The only exceptions to this rule that are listed are readied actions to interrupt or counter spells. Alchemists aren't spell casters and bombs aren't spells, therefore this exception doesn't apply.


You wouldn't need a readied action. Throwing a bomb provokes an AoO, and sunder is a legitimate option for an AoO.


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A direct hit with a splash weapon or bomb requires a succesful attack roll. Sundering a splash weapon should not result in an automatic direct hit so no one gets a direct hit.

Supported is this special non-RAW case by this rules for splash attacks:

Quote:
You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature.


yes, but you also have to remember this portion also.

"You can't target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you're aiming at the creature."

Now remember, the act of throwing the item is what provoked the attack of opportunity. When he sundered the weapon, I would house rule that the weapon is the one that got the direct hit, and everyone around (to include the alchemist get the splash damage).

Question is if it was acid (bypasses hardness), it could potentially destroy the person's weapon as well. ;) Then again, I am an evil DM and an Evil Player that when CG, play's a barbarian cleric named barbie who vital strike sunder's weapons and armor. Sometimes, you have no choice but to sunder. Especially when all the items you are finding are +1 unholy longswords >.>


Well, the alchemist has it in his hands when it breaks. How close do you have to get for a direct hit?


Cpt. Caboodle wrote:
Well, the alchemist has it in his hands when it breaks. How close do you have to get for a direct hit?

If it's an attack of opportunity, it would be melee. The direct hit = the weapon that strikes it. Let's put it like this I attack the Lava with my longsword or I attack the pit of acid with my longsword.

Definition of sunder = attacking an object. Attacking the door = Sundering an object.


So the alchemist touches the bomb when it goes off, and the sundering weapon does as well. Both get the full damage from the bomb. The weapon wielder gets splash damage.


Yes and no, the wielder suffers from the splash damage, he touched the glass, not the actual bottle. Weapon and only weapon suffer direct hit, reason being is neither wielder took a direct hit, it was indirect. In this case, it is a reversed splash weapon.

Imagine taking a baseball bat to a vase (your mother will shoot you if you do this). You hit the vase. Your bat is covered in water, as is the curtains, etc. Some of the contents will remain inside, and some will be everywhere. Now, I want you to do the same thing with a cup. Have you ever had someone walk into a drink when you are carrying it? Same thing, almost only they get a reflex save (ie, they put the drink forward ahead of them so as to not get any on them. Now, a weapon gets the direct contact. You still add the alchemist's intelligence modifier, An alchemist adds his Intelligence modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any. This bonus damage is already included in the bomb class feature.

The wielder and the weapon wielder (if within 5 feet) suffers from the splash damage. The weapon unfortunately gets no save. (a direct hit with a splash weapon receives no reflex save.) Aka the thing that broke the bottle.


Cpt. Caboodle wrote:
So the alchemist touches the bomb when it goes off, and the sundering weapon does as well. Both get the full damage from the bomb. The weapon wielder gets splash damage.

Would say both wielder's get a reflex save, you have a soda can, someone hit's soda can. You get a reflex save vs. the splash. Weapon gets no saving throw, as it is the direct hit.


Hmm...no. an alchemist's bomb is not a soda can. If you hit a soda can, you will be soaked a little.
An alchemist's bomb explodes with an area of effect of 9 squares (or, in the case of extended area, 21 squares) for xd6, and the alchemist stands at ground zero. We could talk about full damage, or reflex save for splash only, but not less.


ohhhhh....... and what about a can of soda that has been shaken for the past 20 minutes, Pretty sure that will work :)

As for the rest you need to remember this key part of D&D:

Since when has physics applied to D&D?

Alchemist bomb's area effect is 9 squares or 21 squares, doesn't matter. a firework blows up in your hand, you are going to get a burn. If your hand is wrapped around it, it's going to be blown off. Everyone has seen Armaggeddon understands that reference. Being ground zero, doesn't apply. D&D = no physics.

Look at the meteor swarm spell. the target of the direct hit gets no save, and lots of damage, and everyone within 40ft of that sphere gets a reflex for half. :) I am a wizard, and the monster is 5 feet in front of me and I cast meteor swarm. I get a save, the monster doesn't if all the meteors hit. It's a thing you do if you are about to die, and you really want to go out with a bang.


Oliver Veyrac wrote:
D&D = no physics.

Yeah, ok, can't argue against that...

But still, I do like a teeny weeny little bit of realism in my game, and my players do so as well. I guess that no-one would protest if the alchemist gets the full damage.

In fact, I will try it tomorrow. We have an alchemist in the party, and his bombs are starting to get on my nerves...

EDIT: sorry, the quick derail turned out to be a u-turn. Back to you, OP.

Grand Lodge

Just for the record, Pulling *and charging* the bomb is all part of the standard action. Until the bomb is charged it is inert and does not explode. (Hence why alchemists don't have the life expectancy of early nitro safecrackers.)

I would rule that if the PC had a readied action (or sundered as an AoO) that happens *before* the bomb is charged, and thus the bomb is inert.


Cpt. Caboodle wrote:
Well, the alchemist has it in his hands when it breaks. How close do you have to get for a direct hit?

Holding a hand in a bucket full of water is not the same as been hit by a bucket full of water.

This case is not covered by RAW. We have different solutions .. find one that fits best your play style and everything is fine.

Liberty's Edge

alchemist bombs are different than alchemist fire or fuse grenades as as part of the standard action of the attack they are actually putting component into the jar that makes a bomb which is why a alchemist needs both hands free so what the attack would do is just provoke an attack of opportunity and the bomb would be still fully functional you can only disarm a delayed bomb and that is done with dispel magic.

quote the advanced players guide "Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity."


FLite wrote:
I would rule that if the PC had a readied action (or sundered as an AoO) that happens *before* the bomb is charged, and thus the bomb is inert.

Naaah... where is the fun in that?

Eridan wrote:
Holding a hand in a bucket full of water is not the same as been hit by a bucket full of water.

We had that one already. A bucket of water doesn't explode like an alchemist's bomb.

Eridan wrote:
This case is not covered by RAW. We have different solutions .. find one that fits best your play style and everything is fine.

Right you are. And I'm going to test my solution on my players tomorrow.

Liberty's Edge

Oliver Veyrac wrote:


Question is if it was acid (bypasses hardness), it could potentially destroy the person's weapon as well.

Acid in Pathfinder is an energy attack, so its damage is halved and it don't bypass hardness automatically.

A GM can say that some metal is particularly susceptible to some acid, but it is not a general rule.
Even in reality some acid work well against some metal, others don't. In a world where there are fantasy metals like mithral it is a GM call.

PRD wrote:


Energy Attacks: Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.

...

Vulnerability to Certain Attacks: Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and may ignore the object's hardness.

Liberty's Edge

FLite wrote:

Just for the record, Pulling *and charging* the bomb is all part of the standard action. Until the bomb is charged it is inert and does not explode. (Hence why alchemists don't have the life expectancy of early nitro safecrackers.)

I would rule that if the PC had a readied action (or sundered as an AoO) that happens *before* the bomb is charged, and thus the bomb is inert.

As already pointed out the act of throwing the bomb provoke and the guy making the melee attack can chose to sunder the throw item as his melee attack.

At that point the bomb is charged and ready to go.

It work this way:

Alchemy standard action that include (drawing catalyst, charging it, throwing it)

Counter actions
Ready action to sunder the bomb when it is throw
or
AoO to sunder the bomb in as a reaction to the ranged attack

Both change the sequence to:

Alchemist standard action [drawing catalyst, charging it, (enemy AoO or ready action to sunder the bomb), throwing it if not sundered]


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Diego Rossi wrote:
FLite wrote:

Just for the record, Pulling *and charging* the bomb is all part of the standard action. Until the bomb is charged it is inert and does not explode. (Hence why alchemists don't have the life expectancy of early nitro safecrackers.)

I would rule that if the PC had a readied action (or sundered as an AoO) that happens *before* the bomb is charged, and thus the bomb is inert.

As already pointed out the act of throwing the bomb provoke and the guy making the melee attack can chose to sunder the throw item as his melee attack.

At that point the bomb is charged and ready to go.

It work this way:

Alchemy standard action that include (drawing catalyst, charging it, throwing it)

Counter actions
Ready action to sunder the bomb when it is throw
or
AoO to sunder the bomb in as a reaction to the ranged attack

Both change the sequence to:

Alchemist standard action [drawing catalyst, charging it, (enemy AoO or ready action to sunder the bomb), throwing it if not sundered]

You should be able to ready an action to disrupt the making of the bomb. It's doesn't seem to be what happened in the OP's scenario but still possible. Even the AoO might disrupt. It doesn't say throwing the bomb provokes it says you can draw, mix, and throw as a standard action [i]that[/] provokes. If AoO interup the action that provoked them you could rule it happens before the components are mixed.


Separate question: would you allow other thrown weapons to be sundered? Can you ready an action to sunder a dagger thrown at you? An arrow?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

You could ready to disrupt the drawing or mixing of the bomb (no splash), or ready to sunder the bomb when it's about to be thrown (everyone splash - nothing on the weapon, unless the wielder botches the save). It doesn't matter if this is "one action" - it exists over a period of time, and is interruptible.

I'd just ready an action to throw an alchemist bomb at the alchemist, then disarm as the AoO and perform the readied action... ;)

Durngrun: Huge difference between sundering a weapon *thrown* at you, and sundering a weapon about to be thrown at you.

However, for your exact question... I think... maybe. Probably do the higher of the attack roll or thrower's CMD, and probably stack a +5 on top of that, but yeah, maybe. Definite houserule territory then though.


I would say no you can't sunder an thrown weapon or arrow in flight. Unless you happen to have deflect arrows. Then, as part of the rule of cool, I would allow you to reflavor it as sundering the arrow mid flight rather than catching it.

Before it is thrown? Certainly, it's just like sundering any melee weapon.


Now how about sundering the alchemist's bomb mid-flight... with an arrow?

Liberty's Edge

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
FLite wrote:

Just for the record, Pulling *and charging* the bomb is all part of the standard action. Until the bomb is charged it is inert and does not explode. (Hence why alchemists don't have the life expectancy of early nitro safecrackers.)

I would rule that if the PC had a readied action (or sundered as an AoO) that happens *before* the bomb is charged, and thus the bomb is inert.

As already pointed out the act of throwing the bomb provoke and the guy making the melee attack can chose to sunder the throw item as his melee attack.

At that point the bomb is charged and ready to go.

It work this way:

Alchemy standard action that include (drawing catalyst, charging it, throwing it)

Counter actions
Ready action to sunder the bomb when it is throw
or
AoO to sunder the bomb in as a reaction to the ranged attack

Both change the sequence to:

Alchemist standard action [drawing catalyst, charging it, (enemy AoO or ready action to sunder the bomb), throwing it if not sundered]

You should be able to ready an action to disrupt the making of the bomb. It's doesn't seem to be what happened in the OP's scenario but still possible. Even the AoO might disrupt. It doesn't say throwing the bomb provokes it says you can draw, mix, and throw as a standard action [i]that[/] provokes. If AoO interup the action that provoked them you could rule it happens before the components are mixed.

Attack (ranged) Provoke an AoO? Yes

PRD wrote:
Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus.

You are machining a ranged attack. That provoke an AoO.

Very similar to casting scorching ray. You provoke when you cast the spell and when you make the ranged attack.
To provocations at the cost of one.


Quote:

Kaito Darkborn wrote: You actually couldn't do that due to the nature of the bomb action. The Alchemist bomb action is a standard action in which you draw, create and throw the bomb. It is all a single action (Standard action). The ready action goes off before the action it is readied against, therefore it would go off before he has drawn and created the bomb, thus he could not ready that action, per RAW. It is the nature of the action economy.

The only exceptions to this rule that are listed are readied actions to interrupt or counter spells. Alchemists aren't spell casters and bombs aren't spells, therefore this exception doesn't apply.

I considered this when we played, but I went with the rule of cool instead.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
FLite wrote:

Just for the record, Pulling *and charging* the bomb is all part of the standard action. Until the bomb is charged it is inert and does not explode. (Hence why alchemists don't have the life expectancy of early nitro safecrackers.)

I would rule that if the PC had a readied action (or sundered as an AoO) that happens *before* the bomb is charged, and thus the bomb is inert.

As already pointed out the act of throwing the bomb provoke and the guy making the melee attack can chose to sunder the throw item as his melee attack.

At that point the bomb is charged and ready to go.

It work this way:

Alchemy standard action that include (drawing catalyst, charging it, throwing it)

Counter actions
Ready action to sunder the bomb when it is throw
or
AoO to sunder the bomb in as a reaction to the ranged attack

Both change the sequence to:

Alchemist standard action [drawing catalyst, charging it, (enemy AoO or ready action to sunder the bomb), throwing it if not sundered]

You should be able to ready an action to disrupt the making of the bomb. It's doesn't seem to be what happened in the OP's scenario but still possible. Even the AoO might disrupt. It doesn't say throwing the bomb provokes it says you can draw, mix, and throw as a standard action that[/] provokes. If AoO interup the action that provoked them you could rule it happens before the components are mixed.

Attack (ranged) Provoke an AoO? Yes

PRD wrote:
Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus.

You are machining a ranged attack. That provoke an AoO.

Very similar to casting scorching ray. You provoke when you cast the spell...

And with a bomb you don't provoke when mixing and then provoke when throwing, you provoke when you mix and throw the bomb.

Liberty's Edge

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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
And with a bomb you don't provoke when mixing and then provoke when throwing, you provoke when you mix and throw the bomb.

You are making a ranged attack? Yes/No

Making a ranged attack provoke? Yes/No

Both replies are yes so throwing a alchemist bomb provoke.

Sovereign Court

Greater Disarm allows you to fling the bomb 15-feet away. That could lead to interesting results! :)


Diego Rossi wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
And with a bomb you don't provoke when mixing and then provoke when throwing, you provoke when you mix and throw the bomb.

You are making a ranged attack? Yes/No

Making a ranged attack provoke? Yes/No

Both replies are yes so throwing a alchemist bomb provoke.

I'm not sure you understand my point. The bomb ability allows you to draw the components, mix them together, and throw a bomb as a standard action. That standard action provokes an AoO. AoOs interrupt the action that provoked them. The DM can decide when that interruption occurs.

Liberty's Edge

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
And with a bomb you don't provoke when mixing and then provoke when throwing, you provoke when you mix and throw the bomb.

You are making a ranged attack? Yes/No

Making a ranged attack provoke? Yes/No

Both replies are yes so throwing a alchemist bomb provoke.

I'm not sure you understand my point. The bomb ability allows you to draw the components, mix them together, and throw a bomb as a standard action. That standard action provokes an AoO. AoOs interrupt the action that provoked them. The DM can decide when that interruption occurs.

Irrelevant.

We are speaking of 2 different actions that provoke.

1) Using the bomb ability provoke. It happen when you use the ability, normally at the start of the use of the ability.

2) Making a attack weapon provoke. A alchemist bomb is a ranged attack. It provoke when you make the ranged attack.

Nothing in the bomb ability say that the act of making the ranged attack don'tr provoke, so it provoke as for normal rules.

The alchemist provoke 2 times. Exactly like a scorching ray spell.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
And with a bomb you don't provoke when mixing and then provoke when throwing, you provoke when you mix and throw the bomb.

You are making a ranged attack? Yes/No

Making a ranged attack provoke? Yes/No

Both replies are yes so throwing a alchemist bomb provoke.

I'm not sure you understand my point. The bomb ability allows you to draw the components, mix them together, and throw a bomb as a standard action. That standard action provokes an AoO. AoOs interrupt the action that provoked them. The DM can decide when that interruption occurs.

Irrelevant.

We are speaking of 2 different actions that provoke.

1) Using the bomb ability provoke. It happen when you use the ability, normally at the start of the use of the ability.

2) Making a attack weapon provoke. A alchemist bomb is a ranged attack. It provoke when you make the ranged attack.

Nothing in the bomb ability say that the act of making the ranged attack don'tr provoke, so it provoke as for normal rules.

The alchemist provoke 2 times. Exactly like a scorching ray spell.

Except using the bomb ability includes throwing the bomb. It's just one AoO for using the Bomb ability as stated in their description.

Liberty's Edge

And casting scorching ray includes the free ranged attack. And it provoke for the spell and the ranged attack.


Diego Rossi wrote:

And casting scorching ray includes the free ranged attack. And it provoke for the spell and the ranged attack.

The bomb ability explicitly says you can create and throw as a standard action that provokes. You read that as two AoOs? Is there a rule stating you cast scorching ray and make a touch attack as a standard action that provokes an AoO? Or do you cast the spell as a standard action that provokes and make a ranged attack as a free action that provokes?

APG pg 28

Bomb (Su): Creating and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Liberty's Edge

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

And casting scorching ray includes the free ranged attack. And it provoke for the spell and the ranged attack.

The bomb ability explicitly says you can create and throw as a standard action that provokes. You read that as two AoOs? Is there a rule stating you cast scorching ray and make a touch attack as a standard action that provokes an AoO? Or do you cast the spell as a standard action that provokes and make a ranged attack as a free action that provokes?

APG pg 28

Bomb (Su): Creating and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

PRD wrote:

Scorching Ray

School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 2

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)

Effect one or more rays

Duration instantaneous

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

You blast your enemies with a searing beam of fire. You may fire one ray, plus one additional ray for every four levels beyond 3rd (to a maximum of three rays at 11th level). Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of fire damage. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and fired simultaneously.

FAQ wrote:


Ranged Touch Attack Spells and AOOs: When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?

Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events.
(Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.
This answer originally appeared in the 9/11/12 Paizo blog.

The bomb ability use one action, like casting and firing the scorching ray. The spell give you a free attack. But you provoke 2 times as mixing the bomb and throwing it are separate events.


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Diego Rossi wrote:
The bomb ability use one action, like casting and firing the scorching ray. The spell give you a free attack. But you provoke 2 times as mixing the bomb and throwing it are separate events.

Not according to the Rules, As Written in the Advanced Player's Guide.

Liberty's Edge

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
The bomb ability use one action, like casting and firing the scorching ray. The spell give you a free attack. But you provoke 2 times as mixing the bomb and throwing it are separate events.
Not according to the Rules, As Written in the Advanced Player's Guide.

You are using the same argument of the people that was saying that scorching ray would provoke only once and failing for the same reasons.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
The bomb ability use one action, like casting and firing the scorching ray. The spell give you a free attack. But you provoke 2 times as mixing the bomb and throwing it are separate events.
Not according to the Rules, As Written in the Advanced Player's Guide.
You are using the same argument of the people that was saying that scorching ray would provoke only once and failing for the same reasons.

Except I don't believe it is written anywhere that you can cast a spell and attack with it as a standard action that provokes AN attack of opportunity. The Bomb ability is explicitly called out as provoking AN attack of opportunity.


Just to be perfectly clear, the Bomb ability says you can create and throw a bomb as a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

I understand that to mean you can create and throw a bomb as a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
You appear to be arguing that you create the bomb as a standard action that provokes and then throw the bomb (I guess as a free action) that also provokes. While I can understand your reasoning and the comparison to spell casting, I believe the Bomb ability is the "specific" that trumps the general.
I'm curious. If a player had Point Blank Master or Close Quarters Thrower, would you still have them provoke for creating the bomb?
Do spell casters provoke three times if they cast a range attack spell with a material component (drawing components, casting, attacking)?

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