Considering an Anti-Magician BBEG


Advice


I've been looking around and seeing a whole lotta "omg casters are so OP" areound the boards, and I came to realize that casters are really easy to stop if you can successfully counter and dispel them.

So, what if I make a BBEG specialize in Abjuration, and max out his Dispel Magic spell with Spell Specialization, Greater Spell Specialization, and Spell Perfection. Quickened Dispels during my round, and readied Dispels to counter my opponents.

So, has anyone ever maxed out a counter spell build?


How about a BBEG with Multiple Personality; one side is an AM Superstition Barbarian and the other side is an Abjuration caster.

Sovereign Court

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I think this guy would do better as an assistant to the BBEG than as the BBEG himself. The issue is action economy - sure, the boss can use up all his actions to shut down 1 or even 2 of the party's casters, but then the rest of the party will just kill off his minions and then kill him. You're better off making Mr. Dispel the second-in-command, and let him lock down the casters (even if not quite as effectively as the BBEG would - but that's fine, you don't want them to totally suck). This forces the melee types to choose between killing the boss without magic support, or targeting the anticaster and thus maybe letting the BBEG run up to and murder the casters.

Note that the above is also a common thematic scenario: kings almost always have wizards around to protect them from magic/scry on their enemies, and sorcerous cultists have a habit of summoning demons more powerful than themselves. Variants on those two scenarios are limitless.

Also, be very careful with this type of thing - if you've ever played Magic, you should know why blue counterspell decks are reviled by most casual players. Wizards did a study - apparently, it's more fun to play a creature and have it blown up than have the casting countered in the first place, even if the end outcome is the same.


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I put a lot of thought into an anti-caster lately. A monk was the obvious initial thought, but issues kept popping up. You can't prep for everything, or expect to pass all saves. Good odds aren't good enough. So! Thus was developed the anti-mage cleric.

Take the Eagle & Magic domains. Eagle is an optional druid domain. It will grant you flight, evasion while flying, great ranged touch attacks, and perhaps best of all, a familiar. Get improved familiar to replace the eagle with a stirge. I'm assuming neutral evil alignment, yes.

Now you have a flying familiar, so what? Magic domain grants the Antimagic Field at level 11. Since it's a spell that has to be cast on yourself, you can cast it on your familiar instead. Now you have a familiar that can fly up the enemy mages & if it hits touch AC, it auto-grapples. Good luck casting anything in an antimagic field & grappled by the thing emanating it. The magic domain also eventually adds nice anti-magic arcane spells like Spell Turning, Protection From Spells & Mage's Disjunction.

Too high a level? Choose the Silence spell instead, with similar results. Good luck casting with no noise & grappled. Even in the worst case of Freedom of Movement, have the familiar ready actions to follow the mage with its silence sphere.

Not evil enough? Give that familiar mithral hellknight plate. At level five that's a 28 AC, with no magic enhancements. At level 11 in an antimagic field that's 31 AC. And attackers don't get any magic bonuses to hit it. And for a -2 to hit with touch attacks? Fine by me just having a +10. Oh, plus blood drain & disease for frosting.


The best counter to a wizard is more wizard, unfortunately.

Also Corwin remember that the armor rules change when you are tiny, ie you only get half benefit from armor's AC bonus


CWheezy wrote:
The best counter to a wizard is more wizard, unfortunately.

Magic must defeat magic!


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deuxhero wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
The best counter to a wizard is more wizard, unfortunately.
Magic must defeat magic!

ONE MORE THING...


CWheezy wrote:

The best counter to a wizard is more wizard, unfortunately.

Also Corwin remember that the armor rules change when you are tiny, ie you only get half benefit from armor's AC bonus

I am wondering how a stirge wears hellknight plate.


Depending on the party's level and the level of challenge you wish to throw at them...

A couple of 10th level (at least) barbarian with greater beast totem, superstition, spell sunder, and witch hunter will royally rock the face of a caster. Don't forget to make them human with their favored class bonus to superstition and furious courageous weapons. Strength surge to make certain you can sunder all the spells.

Charge -> pounce -> full attack -> spell sunder off defensive spells, etc -> tear their face off with damage.

Don't forget spell sunder ignores any miss chance due to spells or spell like abilities.

Oh, and they'll need a belt of .... I'm drawing a blank on the name but it lets you rage cycle.

Overall, you might need higher than 10th level NPCs to pull of all these needs with wealth by level constraints for NPCs, but if you make these characters they will be a nightmare for your party.


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1. Group starts messing up BBEG's plans.
2. BBEG learns of the group, and starts scrying them.
3. BBEG sends minions to deal with them. Group defeats minions.
4. BBEG sets up a trap "to teach them a lesson". Group defeats trap and learns of the BBEG.
5. BBEG scries (scry's?) divinates what the group is up to, and begins challenging them via spells like dream or message. Group responds to challenges.
6. BBEG shows group how far he'll go to achieve his ends, and group learns how evil BBEG really is.
7. Showdown: BBEG is prepared for the group's strengths and weaknesses.

Caster in the group who likes to use invisibility? Wandering Star Motes and archers. LOTS of archers. Roll those d20's MUAHAHAHAA!!!

Caster in the group who likes to use evocations? Stinking Cloud'Hard to cast if you can't target anything and you're busy barfing.

Wall of Fire = Constant damage to a caster.
Wall of Fire + Wall of Force, aka. "The Oven" = Crisis Mode

Caster who likes to fly? [Summon Air Elemental + Obscuring Mist]. Caster can't target what's on the ground and he's busy fighting an air elemental who can fly faster and better than him.

Meanwhile, you're naturally keeping the rest of the party busy with minions and a big-bad minion or two.

Home turf should always be to the BBEG's advantage too. Never let them corner the villain unless they've earned it.


Though the license is under Wizards, to me, the iconic anti-magician is the Beholder.


What about a martial who stands back readying actions to deal massive dmg to disrupt with thrown weapon if the caster begins a spell, the rest of the time he could use swifts, or goad enemies with move actions?


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There is always the "a dragon with anti-magic shell cast on himself is still a dragon" trick.

Hello Commoner! Nice Wizard hat! Check out this claw/claw/bite/wing/wing/tail combo!

Bonus points if the dragon gets his AC and DR tattooed on himself somewhere obvious. Watch your fighters cry as their magic swords turn into just shiny swords.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/chromatic- white/white-dragon-mature-adult

Give this guy a scroll of AMF and change one of his skills like intimidate to a +19 UMD.

Giggle maniacally as it does flyby vital strike power attack bites with its 172 hp, 30 AC, and DR 10/magic. And it's just CR 11.

Sovereign Court

Oh yeah, having a bunch of minions with readied attacks is a great idea! "THAT GUY IS CASTING SOMETHING, SHOOT HIM NOW!" Just make sure you have counters ready for invisibility and whatnot.


Maybe at some point if I were super motivated, I could make a guide for how to counter common player character tactics and builds as a GM.

Caster problems? readied actions, spell sunder, AMF, etc.
Crazy high armor class? Fire mephits!
Everybody took human? Deeper Darkness!
Feel like turning out the lights and everybody took dwarves? Dark Stalkers!
Everybody took huge melee weapons? Flying monkey archers!
Everybody took bows? Swarms!


andreww wrote:
CWheezy wrote:

The best counter to a wizard is more wizard, unfortunately.

Also Corwin remember that the armor rules change when you are tiny, ie you only get half benefit from armor's AC bonus

I am wondering how a stirge wears hellknight plate.

A stirge would be treated roughly as an avian companion, which can wear armor. Most companions can wear armor, except piscines (dolphins & the like), serpents, & vermin like crabs & spiders. A stirge isn't anything like those exceptions. It'd just take the nonproficiency penalty of -2.

True about the armor only giving a +4 AC though... I hadn't seen that fine print. Ah well, still 26 AC at owner's level 11 then. Judging by a few level 11 full BAB NPCs, PC primary attacks are probably around +15 to +20. Likely less considering magic increases to strength & weapon enhancements are nullified in the field the stirge would have. What an annoying little critter. Hope so anyway!

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