Petition: Deep 6 the inventory tracking sheet next season


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Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

kinevon wrote:

What it sounds like his sheet shows, is a few lines in addition to the ones he quoted:

Potion Enlarge Person (x2) 100gp [4] [11]
Alchemical Grease (x2) 10gp [4] [_]
Replenished 2 Liquid Ice 80gp [4] [4]
Replenished Potion Enlarge Person x1 50 gp [5] [5]
Replenished Potion Enlarge Person x2 100 gp [6] [6]
Replenished Potion Enlarge Person x1 50 gp [7] [7]
.
.
.
Potion Enlarge Person (x2) 100gp [13] [_]

No.

I write "Replenished (whatever)" on the Chronicle Sheet itself.

If I hadn't forgotten to repurchase those two potions during sheet #11 then I would still have just the one line on my ITS:

Potion Enlarge Person (x2) 100gp [4] [_]

BigNorseWolf summed it up well.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I need to know how many potions of enlarge person that i have in my handy haversack.

What I don't need to know is when I bought the potion, and when I've ever used any of the potions.

Or in other words, it does nobody any good to have 20 lines of "Potion of Enlarge Person" written and subsequently crossed off on my ITS. What point would it serve? To thicken my folder and eventually fill up my garbage can? I see no reason to do that.

The Exchange 5/5

but the Potion of Enlarge Person isn't being tracked then is it? the one you bought way back when was used (and not marked as used on the ITS), the one you are pulling out now isn't even listed on your ITS... so I am confused.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I see no other way to explain it.

I am tracking it, as I've stated several times.

It's a system that works for me, and obviously won't for you, so we're at an impasse.

Continue doing what you're doing, and I'll do the same. If we ever meet in person, perhaps I can better show you then.

Going to PaizoCon?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet,

You system is technically illegal as it doesn't have all the information that it would have if it were on the standard ITS.

(which imo is a problem with the ITS as opposed to your system)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

It's 100% legal.

Mike Brock has said, repeatedly, that we are allowed to track our purchases however we want, and on whatever custom sheet that we want, so long as all the information is there: Item, Quantity, Price, Sheet # purchased, Sheet # expended.

I track everything. I simply track goods I've replenished on the Chronicle sheet I used them on. All the information is there. It is no different than the people who fill out an ITS for every Chronicle they're given. Except my way uses half the paper.

If a GM audits me, they'll see exactly what I possess on one easy-to-read ITS.

Not ten different sheets with 90% of the items crossed off on each one, with a jumble of notes, out of order, in pencil, whatever.

I see no problem with this.

The purpose of the ITS is to make auditing easier. I can think of no easier way than how I do it, because that's how I'd want players to have their sheets organized if I audit them.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Here's the difference between ITS and generic tracking:

I need to know how many potions of enlarge person that i have in my handy haversack.

What I don't need to know is when I bought the potion, and when I've ever used any of the potions. I don't need to keep track of that wand of CLW that heaved its last poor breath 2 scenarios ago. It doesn't need to be in my brain, it doesn't need to be on my sheet.

When you purchase an item has always been a requirement.

4/5

Nefreet wrote:

It's 100% legal.

Mike Brock has said, repeatedly, that we are allowed to track our purchases however we want, and on whatever custom sheet that we want, so long as all the information is there: Item, Quantity, Price, Sheet # purchased, Sheet # expended.

I track everything. I simply track goods I've replenished on the Chronicle sheet I used them on. All the information is there. It is no different than the people who fill out an ITS for every Chronicle they're given. Except my way uses half the paper.

If a GM audits me, they'll see exactly what I possess on one easy-to-read ITS.

Not ten different sheets with 90% of the items crossed off on each one, with a jumble of notes, out of order, in pencil, whatever.

I see no problem with this.

The purpose of the ITS is to make auditing easier. I can think of no easier way than how I do it, because that's how I'd want players to have their sheets organized if I audit them.

A GM can't look at your ITS and see how many potions you have bought. It doesn't track when you've expended the ones you've bought or even when you bought them. The have to dig through your chronicles in order to find that answer.

The ITS is to track what you bought, not what your carrying. You seem to be using it more as an equipment list then a record of what you purchased.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

It is no different than the one player I encountered with an ITS for every Chronicle sheet, now is it? Would you tell him he's been doing it wrong, too?

The GM, I, or anyone else does not need to see how many potions I've purchased throughout my career anyways. All that needs to be seen is what I have on my person now.

There is absolutely no point, or purpose, in seeing that ten sheets ago I bought and used a flask of Alchemist Fire. Absolutely none.

And I can almost guarantee auditing me is going to be faster than any other player at the table, with what I've seen.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:

It is no different than the one player I encountered with an ITS for every Chronicle sheet, now is it? Would you tell him he's been doing it wrong, too?

I would. Probably after laughing over what was either an error or the most subtle bureaucratic protest ever in gaming...

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

It's still a practice advocated by many today.

Printing an ITS on the back of the Chronicle sheet.

One of our former VCs still likes the idea.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Now, if I have a certain Lissalan item on my ITS, and it gets destroyed in a certain Season 5 scenario, you'll clearly see the boxes checked for when I first received the item, and for when it became "expended". That will remain on my ITS.

But the flask of Alkali I threw at the gelatinous cube? That's getting replenished on my Chronicle sheet (or "custom ITS", if you prefer).

4/5

Nefreet wrote:

It is no different than the one player I encountered with an ITS for every Chronicle sheet, now is it? Would you tell him he's been doing it wrong, too?

The GM, I, or anyone else does not need to see how many potions I've purchased throughout my career anyways. All that needs to be seen is what I have on my person now.

There is absolutely no point, or purpose, in seeing that ten sheets ago I bought and used a flask of Alchemist Fire. Absolutely none.

And I can almost guarantee auditing me is going to be faster than any other player at the table, with what I've seen.

Yes, I would tell that person they are filling it out wrong. Then I would explain how the default form is filled out. In fact I've done that quite a bit since the ITS form was implemented.

Nefreet wrote:

Now, if I have a certain Lissalan item on my ITS, and it gets destroyed in a certain Season 5 scenario, you'll clearly see the boxes checked for when I first received the item, and for when it became "expended". That will remain on my ITS.

But the flask of Alkali I threw at the gelatinous cube? That's getting replenished on my Chronicle sheet (or "custom ITS", if you prefer).

The chronicle sheet is not a custom ITS, it's a chronicle sheet. And if Mike Brock thought that tracking things on the chronicle sheets was good enough for the campaign we wouldn't have the ITS right now.

Alkali Flask are under 25gp and as such aren't required to be tracked on the ITS.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Alkali Flask are under 25gp and as such aren't required to be tracked on the ITS.

You haven't read much of the thread. I've pointed that out like half a dozen times.

4/5

Nefreet wrote:
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Alkali Flask are under 25gp and as such aren't required to be tracked on the ITS.
You haven't read much of the thread. I've pointed that out like half a dozen times.

I have read the thread. I've read the whole thread since it was posted.

I addressed the alkali flask because you brought it up in a way that suggested to me that you thought people were telling you keep track of them.

If that wasn't your intent then I don't see why you'd even mention something that wouldn't be tracked.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

I have no problems with the ITS (well, it'd be nice if the check-boxes worked on the ammo tracking sheet, but that's not really an official problem).

I list every item purchased on the ITS, regardless of cost. Bribes? on the ITS. Conditions cured with prestige? On the ITS. It is the complete record of all transactions. By 2nd level, all my characters are on their second page. Some of my characters are on their 6th page. I'm fine with this.

Between sessions, I'll write everything that I'm buying on the ITS with the next chronicle's number. I show it to the GM at the begining of the session, and addend it with anything I buy during the session. At the end the GM puts the total cost on the chronicle. I've never had any problem with this.

I use cutePDF form filler to fill out the ITS. Periodically, I'll re-arrange the items into things that make more sense to me, and print out new replacement sets. I can see how that might be questionable, but so far nobody's had a problem with it. Often it's to better group things so that the lines go masterwork longsword -> convert longsword to +1 -> convert +1 longsword to +1 Keen Longsword, then on to the next group. Useless adventurer gear (bedrolls, cooking gear) goes near the first page, magic items towards the back, leave some blanks when I know something will later be improved.

I don't find it any more difficult than trying to fit all the purchases onto the chronicle like we used to do, and it helps me organize things a bit better.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Nefreet wrote:
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Alkali Flask are under 25gp and as such aren't required to be tracked on the ITS.
You haven't read much of the thread. I've pointed that out like half a dozen times.

Hmm, so if a consumable is under 25 gp, as well as not logging its purchase, do we also not need to log its consumption?

I had though the ITS section labelled "Wands/Ammunition/Alchemical Items/Other" was meant to be used to track all consumables?

So if a player purchases 20 arrows for his bow - you never need to show on the ITS the purchase of those arrows or their consumption. Is that correct?

So presumably the ITS does nothing to prevent a player "cheating" by using the same 20 arrows in each scenario? There is no way to audit that the player has replenished his spent arrows if there is no way to audit that some arrows have been used (especially in light of the 50% chance to reclaim arrows that miss their target).

Effectively does the ITS now effectively allow for players to ignore tracking their ammo?

4/5

DigitalMage wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Alkali Flask are under 25gp and as such aren't required to be tracked on the ITS.
You haven't read much of the thread. I've pointed that out like half a dozen times.

Hmm, so if a consumable is under 25 gp, as well as not logging its purchase, do we also not need to log its consumption?

I had though the ITS section labelled "Wands/Ammunition/Alchemical Items/Other" was meant to be used to track all consumables?

So if a player purchases 20 arrows for his bow - you never need to show on the ITS the purchase of those arrows or their consumption. Is that correct?

So presumably the ITS does nothing to prevent a player "cheating" by using the same 20 arrows in each scenario? There is no way to audit that the player has replenished his spent arrows if there is no way to audit that some arrows have been used (especially in light of the 50% chance to reclaim arrows that miss their target).

Effectively does the ITS now effectively allow for players to ignore tracking their ammo?

Gold spent is still tracked on the Chronicle sheets. So the price of those consumables should still be tracked.

And yes a player could probably get away with never buying more then 20 regular arrows without a full audit. Especially if they loot and use arrows from fallen enemies in the course of a scenario. That could perhaps save them 10-20 gold in their career.

I personally track all my purchases, down to my 2cp pair of earplugs in the Confirmation, and I wish that the rule was to record all transaction.

The ITS does not allow players to ignore tracking their ammo, because just because a purchase is under 25gp does not make it free. Before the ITS I found players not tracking purchases legally at all and just keeping a record in hero lab, or their character sheet.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Gold spent is still tracked on the Chronicle sheets. So the price of those consumables should still be tracked.

True, but now with the introduction of the ITS there is no need to record what that gold is spent on. So basically now there is less of a requirement to record your purchases and thus less ability to audit.

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
I personally track all my purchases, down to my 2cp pair of earplugs in the Confirmation, and I wish that the rule was to record all transaction.

Yep, either that or perhaps enact a rule that items under 5gp or something are freely provided by the PFS and thus do not need to be purchased - so ammo etc doesn't need to be tracked.

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
The ITS does not allow players to ignore tracking their ammo, because just because a purchase is under 25gp does not make it free.

Yep, but now it is harder to catch a player not tracking ammo.

The Exchange 5/5

DigitalMage wrote:
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Gold spent is still tracked on the Chronicle sheets. So the price of those consumables should still be tracked.

True, but now with the introduction of the ITS there is no need to record what that gold is spent on. So basically now there is less of a requirement to record your purchases and thus less ability to audit.

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
I personally track all my purchases, down to my 2cp pair of earplugs in the Confirmation, and I wish that the rule was to record all transaction.

Yep, either that or perhaps enact a rule that items under 5gp or something are freely provided by the PFS and thus do not need to be purchased - so ammo etc doesn't need to be tracked.

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
The ITS does not allow players to ignore tracking their ammo, because just because a purchase is under 25gp does not make it free.
Yep, but now it is harder to catch a player not tracking ammo.

(Bolding above mine) I beleave that this statement is not true. You still need to list what you spend your money on - it's just not needed to list it on the ITS if it's less than 25 gp, and if it is listed on the ITS you may lump them into one line on the chronicle and list it something like "Stuff listed on ITS #4"... So, either on the ITS or on the Chronicle you will need to list the 20gp you spent on a flask of Alchemist Fire as "20gp for a flask of Alchemist Fire". You can't just list it as "20gp for stuff".

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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Nosig, the "20gp for stuff" is sufficient for the chronicle side.

The Exchange 5/5

thistledown wrote:
Nosig, the "20gp for stuff" is sufficient for the chronicle side.

But this does not list what you bought? Where are we listing the things we bought? Nowhere?

20gp means that my PC could have a flask of Alchemist Fire, or 2 flasks Acid or a dose each of Vermin Repelant and Clearear....or two 1st level spells scribed to a spell book...

Judge: "When did you buy all this?"
Player: "Ah, right here where it says I paid 200 gp for 'stuff'".
Judge: "you bought 20 flasks of Acid?"
Player: "Yep!"
Judge: "But last game you said that was where you bought the 10 flasks of Alchemist Fire..."
Player: "Did I? I must have been mistaken..."
Judge: "and the game before that you had 6 applications of Vermin Repelant"
Player: "Yep! And a good thing too! We really needed it!"

If you buy something for your PC, shouldn't there be a record someplace of what you bought?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

nosig wrote:
If you buy something for your PC, shouldn't there be a record someplace of what you bought?

Suddenly my method doesn't seem so crazy, now does it?

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:
If you buy something for your PC, shouldn't there be a record someplace of what you bought?
Suddenly my method doesn't seem so crazy, now does it?

But your method doesn't track when the item was bought...

The one proposed by thistledown doesn't track what was bought.

we are required to list items bought on the chronicle - but if they are listed on the ITS (values greater than 25gp required to be listed there) they may be lumped into one line on the chronicle - as long as they are listed individually on the ITS.

SO - If they cost more than 25GP, you end up listing them twice - once (individually) on the ITS and once (as a total of all items bought at one time) on the Chronicle.

AND - If they cost less than 25GP, you list them on the chronicle - as you have to track the expenditure and what was bought.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

1 person marked this as a favorite.

That's why I just put it all on the ITS, regardless of price. Because while what I said is all that is required, you pointed out exactly why it's poor form.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

nosig wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:
If you buy something for your PC, shouldn't there be a record someplace of what you bought?
Suddenly my method doesn't seem so crazy, now does it?
But your method doesn't track when the item was bought...

I'm beginning to think you just don't read my responses.

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
nosig wrote:
If you buy something for your PC, shouldn't there be a record someplace of what you bought?
Suddenly my method doesn't seem so crazy, now does it?
But your method doesn't track when the item was bought...
I'm beginning to think you just don't read my responses.

I am sorry you think that. I have read every post on this thread, some of them many times... (clearly I need to do something more productive...)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

You and me both.

I have papers and midterms due this week and next. I should probably not visit the forums every hour...

Maybe every two instead...

Liberty's Edge 1/5

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Please see my edit at the end...

nosig wrote:
thistledown wrote:
Nosig, the "20gp for stuff" is sufficient for the chronicle side.
But this does not list what you bought? Where are we listing the things we bought? Nowhere?

That is my understanding, and why I have an issue with the new rules for using the ITS (not the ITS itself). As I understand things, anything purchases of items that are individually under 25gp can just be written up collectively on the chronicle sheet as "Misc Purchases 200gp".

In fact I am not sure you even need to do that, you just record the GP spent on the Chronicle sheet and don't even have to highlight the fact that there is a difference between GP spent on the Chronicle sheet and that spent on the ITS.

nosig wrote:
20gp means that my PC could have a flask of Alchemist Fire, or 2 flasks Acid or a dose each of Vermin Repelant and Clearear....or two 1st level spells scribed to a spell book...

And your example shows why I think the ITS does not help with auditing small stuff, it actually makes it worse, the ITS as it stands just helps with auditing the big value items.

nosig wrote:
If you buy something for your PC, shouldn't there be a record someplace of what you bought?

Yes I think there should, my preference is to log everything on the ITS.

EDIT: Actually you are right, v5 of the PFS Guide says in relation to the Chronicle Sheet on page 35:
"Step 8: Have the player note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the notes section (V)."

So we do have to record every purchase on the Chronicle Sheet (both stuff that costs under 25gp and stuff over 25gp.

But that does mean categorically that the ITS is extra paperwork, duplicating effort of writing down purchases of items valued at 25+gp.

Horizon Hunters 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis

DigitalMage wrote:


EDIT: Actually you are right, v5 of the PFS Guide says in relation to the Chronicle Sheet on page 35:
"Step 8: Have the player note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the notes section (V)."

So we do have to record every purchase on the Chronicle Sheet (both stuff that costs under 25gp and stuff over 25gp.

But that does mean categorically that the ITS is extra paperwork, duplicating effort of writing down purchases of items valued at 25+gp.

That would be fine, if all chronicles actually have a NOTES section. The chronicle for #5-11 Library of the Lion has no notes section, so, it would not be possible to comply with the guide in that regard.

The Exchange 5/5

Mark Stratton wrote:
DigitalMage wrote:


EDIT: Actually you are right, v5 of the PFS Guide says in relation to the Chronicle Sheet on page 35:
"Step 8: Have the player note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the notes section (V)."

So we do have to record every purchase on the Chronicle Sheet (both stuff that costs under 25gp and stuff over 25gp.

But that does mean categorically that the ITS is extra paperwork, duplicating effort of writing down purchases of items valued at 25+gp.

That would be fine, if all chronicles actually have a NOTES section. The chronicle for #5-11 Library of the Lion has no notes section, so, it would not be possible to comply with the guide in that regard.

I actually listed my all my purchases on the chronicle for 5-11 in the white space under/beside the write-up for Glorymane (and the items over 25 gp listed again the ITS) - (a scroll, a MW tool, a vial of Anti-Toxin, a vial of Anti-Plague and a jar of Alchemical Grease, total cost was 180gp, 175gp of it tracked on the ITS).

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

DigitalMage wrote:

v5 of the PFS Guide says in relation to the Chronicle Sheet on page 35:

"Step 8: Have the player note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the notes section (V)."

So we do have to record every purchase on the Chronicle Sheet (both stuff that costs under 25gp and stuff over 25gp.

But that does mean categorically that the ITS is extra paperwork, duplicating effort of writing down purchases of items valued at 25+gp.

My hero <3

Scarab Sages 2/5

This thread is of great interest to me. I've been looking into better ways to manage inventory for a while... I'm curious.

Would there be a great deal of interest from the PFS players for some kind of online medium that:

- Took a list of items
- Allowed editing the quantity/cost to correspond to chronicle numbers
- Formatted them into a printable page similar to the ITS

Obviously it'd be unofficial, really it would just be a way to do what Hero Lab does but online for free. Maybe throw in some database tracking or other code tracking to allow you to copy a previous pseudo-ITS, throw it back in, keep all your chronicle numbers intact, edit it/update it, then have it re-format so you can print it.

This may be something I need to make. Really it's no different than what someone could do with Word/Excel, but I like convenience.

Horizon Hunters 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis

nosig wrote:
I actually listed my all my purchases on the chronicle for 5-11 in the white space under/beside the write-up for Glorymane (and the items over 25 gp listed again the ITS) - (a scroll, a MW tool, a vial of Anti-Toxin, a vial of Anti-Plague and a jar of Alchemical Grease, total cost was 180gp, 175gp of it tracked on the ITS).

DigitalMage pointed to the specific language of the rule that instructs one to fill out that information in the NOTES section. I was pointing out that it's not possible to comply with that rule (at least, as it's written) because, on that particular chronicle, there is no such section.

You, however, exercised common sense and, though not complying with the specific language of the rule, nevertheless complied with the spirit of it. Sometimes, RAW doesn't work.

For the life of me, I do understand why the ITS or the like is such a big deal. I truly don't.

The Exchange 5/5

Mark Stratton wrote:
nosig wrote:
I actually listed my all my purchases on the chronicle for 5-11 in the white space under/beside the write-up for Glorymane (and the items over 25 gp listed again the ITS) - (a scroll, a MW tool, a vial of Anti-Toxin, a vial of Anti-Plague and a jar of Alchemical Grease, total cost was 180gp, 175gp of it tracked on the ITS).

DigitalMage pointed to the specific language of the rule that instructs one to fill out that information in the NOTES section. I was pointing out that it's not possible to comply with that rule (at least, as it's written) because, on that particular chronicle, there is no such section.

You, however, exercised common sense and, though not complying with the specific language of the rule, nevertheless complied with the spirit of it. Sometimes, RAW doesn't work.

For the life of me, I do understand why the ITS or the like is such a big deal. I truly don't.

Because for most of us that were already tracking costs it is extra work. We are doing everything we already were doing and have been handed an extra bit of work - and an extra page of paper to keep track of....

Many people resist change - esp. when it results in extra paperwork.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

DigitalMage wrote:


EDIT: Actually you are right, v5 of the PFS Guide says in relation to the Chronicle Sheet on page 35:
"Step 8: Have the player note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the notes section (V)."

So we do have to record every purchase on the Chronicle Sheet (both stuff that costs under 25gp and stuff over 25gp.

But that does mean categorically that the ITS is extra paperwork, duplicating effort of writing down purchases of items valued at 25+gp.

Mike has stated, over and over again, that a note on the chronicle referencing the ITS with how much gp spent is sufficient on the chronicle.

Like this wrote:


Purchases = 325gp

So no, you do not have to write anything on your chronicle, beyond the reference to the ITS, that you list on your ITS.

Horizon Hunters 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis

nosig wrote:


Many people resist change - esp. when it results in extra paperwork.

Many people also resist change because it's change, no matter the reason behind it.

I dunno. I don't think it's any more work.

EDIT: I just realize that my comment could be interpreted as a dig at Nosig, or others, as an implication that he (or they) opposed this merely because it was change. I wasn't attempting to do so - I was just trying to make a general observation about people being resistant to change; I wasn't try to imply or suggest that he (or anyone else in this thread) were in that category.

The Exchange 5/5

graywulfe wrote:
DigitalMage wrote:


EDIT: Actually you are right, v5 of the PFS Guide says in relation to the Chronicle Sheet on page 35:
"Step 8: Have the player note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the notes section (V)."

So we do have to record every purchase on the Chronicle Sheet (both stuff that costs under 25gp and stuff over 25gp.

But that does mean categorically that the ITS is extra paperwork, duplicating effort of writing down purchases of items valued at 25+gp.

Mike has stated, over and over again, that a note on the chronicle referencing the ITS with how much gp spent is sufficient on the chronicle.

Like this wrote:


Purchases = 325gp
So no, you do not have to write anything on your chronicle, beyond the reference to the ITS, that you list on your ITS.

so, taking myself and my PCs paperwork for #5-11 Library of the Lion as an example, I needed to note the following on my PCs ITS:

Anti-Toxin 50GP, CR19
Anti-Plague 50GP, CR19
Scroll of (spell) 25GP, CR19
Masterwork Tool (Disguise) 50GP, CR19

Then I needed to go to a different sheet of paper (his CR #19) to total those items (or maybe do it as a "filler" line on my ITS?), and list the following:

Items from ITS Page 1 = 175GP
(the PC is only 4th level and has almost filled her first, so I expect to have 2 ITS pages soon)
and then list all items < 25gp cost... in this case only one,
Alchemist Grease 5 GP
(I don't need to note the CR19 on this one, as it is on CR19)
now total again...
175GP+5GP = 180GP and place this in the Gold Spent box on the Chronicle.

(Side note: As I list my equipment on a "quick reference sheet" by location on my PC I need to add the MW tool (Disguise), and the 1/2 jar of Alchemist Grease (my PC is small, so it only used half the jar), as these items are left over and I'll want to know I have them next time I play this PC. without having to comb thru the ITS looking for them, not that half a jar of Alchemist Grease would be listed there.)

so, while you are correct when you say: "So no, you do not have to write anything on your chronicle, beyond [b]the reference to the ITS[b], that you list on your ITS."... I only have to note on the chronicle the total of the items and the page number of the ITS. I also need to note on the ITS which CR# the total was noted on - and I should also the math so that I can show that I did not make a math mistake ... (for example: "was this 2000gp for adding +1 to both the armor and the shield and buying the +1 cloak of resistance? Is this math correct"). SO...
We have the addition of all the notes on the ITS that are extra (the parts beyond just the name and cost of the item which would have been noted on the CR), the fact that we are dealing with at least one additional piece of paper (the ITS itself), and the fact that the items I bought are now subtotaled (either on the ITS or on the CR) before they are totaled with those items only listed on the CR (extra math)...
In fact, I now have items bought in two places... part on the ITS and part on the CR. (Two pieces of paperwork, where we used to only deal with one.)

This is extra work... perhaps not much, but it is still extra paperwork. And yes, some of us resist change. Esp. if it involves extra paperwork.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

It's extra work, but I could never go back to the way it was before. Said extra work has made my inventory far more precise than it was pre-ITS.

If you've got a hyperefficient organization method, good on you. For me, the ITS is that organization.

Could it be better? Maybe. But if it wasn't required, I'd never have straightened my inventories out.

I use it in home games, now. Swap "scenario" for "date," and you're good to go.

The Exchange 5/5

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

It's extra work, but I could never go back to the way it was before. Said extra work has made my inventory far more precise than it was pre-ITS.

If you've got a hyperefficient organization method, good on you. For me, the ITS is that organization.

Could it be better? Maybe. But if it wasn't required, I'd never have straightened my inventories out.

I use it in home games, now. Swap "scenario" for "date," and you're good to go.

Oh, in the past I often used a spreadsheet for equipment inventories - I just never tracked things bought and used/lost on it. If something was bought on a CR, it's added to the spreadsheet. If something is used (or lost/sold), it was either replaced by buying a new one on the current CR or dropped from the spreadsheet. Money was tracked in one place - on the CR.

I have a special one for Alchemists that list a large number of alchemical items with blanks to pencil in the current number that that Alchemist has (on his person, or in storage at home). Those numbers would change each game as the alchemist would craft new iteam, and hand out things for the other PCs to use (or use himself). I'm now looking at my higher level alchemists needing to burn thru a page or more of the ITS each scenario...

Lantern Lodge 5/5

nosig wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

It's extra work, but I could never go back to the way it was before. Said extra work has made my inventory far more precise than it was pre-ITS.

If you've got a hyperefficient organization method, good on you. For me, the ITS is that organization.

Could it be better? Maybe. But if it wasn't required, I'd never have straightened my inventories out.

I use it in home games, now. Swap "scenario" for "date," and you're good to go.

Oh, in the past I often used a spreadsheet for equipment inventories - I just never tracked things bought and used/lost on it. If something was bought on a CR, it's added to the spreadsheet. If something is used (or lost/sold), it was either replaced by buying a new one on the current CR or dropped from the spreadsheet. Money was tracked in one place - on the CR.

I have a special one for Alchemists that list a large number of alchemical items with blanks to pencil in the current number that that Alchemist has (on his person, or in storage at home). Those numbers would change each game as the alchemist would craft new iteam, and hand out things for the other PCs to use (or use himself). I'm now looking at my higher level alchemists needing to burn thru a page or more of the ITS each scenario...

See, that's well and good- -you've got everything in order.

I had little paper trail- -oft-erased scribbles on the back of a character sheet or a loose leaf sheet stuffed into a pile of certs.

But because of the inclusion of the ITS, now there's onus to not be lax on organization.

You've got a spreadsheet, great. The ITS requirement wasn't meant for you. It was meant for players who have pencil-filled certs and 30-potion inventories tracked on the back of a character sheet.

Don't be upset because you didn't need an ITS to get organized. Be happy that the people who needed ANY form of inventory organization now have a requirement to do so.

The Exchange 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jayson MF Kip wrote:
nosig wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

It's extra work, but I could never go back to the way it was before. Said extra work has made my inventory far more precise than it was pre-ITS.

If you've got a hyperefficient organization method, good on you. For me, the ITS is that organization.

Could it be better? Maybe. But if it wasn't required, I'd never have straightened my inventories out.

I use it in home games, now. Swap "scenario" for "date," and you're good to go.

Oh, in the past I often used a spreadsheet for equipment inventories - I just never tracked things bought and used/lost on it. If something was bought on a CR, it's added to the spreadsheet. If something is used (or lost/sold), it was either replaced by buying a new one on the current CR or dropped from the spreadsheet. Money was tracked in one place - on the CR.

I have a special one for Alchemists that list a large number of alchemical items with blanks to pencil in the current number that that Alchemist has (on his person, or in storage at home). Those numbers would change each game as the alchemist would craft new iteam, and hand out things for the other PCs to use (or use himself). I'm now looking at my higher level alchemists needing to burn thru a page or more of the ITS each scenario...

See, that's well and good- -you've got everything in order.

I had little paper trail- -oft-erased scribbles on the back of a character sheet or a loose leaf sheet stuffed into a pile of certs.

But because of the inclusion of the ITS, now there's onus to not be lax on organization.

You've got a spreadsheet, great. The ITS requirement wasn't meant for you. It was meant for players who have pencil-filled certs and 30-potion inventories tracked on the back of a character sheet.

Don't be upset because you didn't need an ITS to get organized. Be happy that the people who needed ANY form of inventory organization now have a requirement to do so.

But... the extra work involved in making sure other people track their stuff... is still extra work. and for me, it is extra work with no advantage. It's not netting me better organization (in fact, it is LESS organization, as I now have extra calculations and extra paperwork to make errors on...)

Then I get on to threads like this where people try to explain why it isn't more paperwork ...

Lantern Lodge 5/5

nosig wrote:

But... the extra work...with no advantage...

The "advantage" is that others are being held to the same standard you hold yourself to.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

nosig wrote:

...so, while you are correct when you say: "So no, you do not have to write anything on your chronicle, beyond [b]the reference to the ITS[b], that you list on your ITS."... I only have to note on the chronicle the total of the items and the page number of the ITS. I also need to note on the ITS which CR# the total was noted on - and I should also the math so that I can show that I did not make a math mistake ... (for example: "was this 2000gp for adding +1 to both the armor and the shield and buying the +1 cloak of resistance? Is this math correct").

Okay this right here, you are adding work that is not required and acting like it is, at least from my perspective. For the record I am talking about showing the math.

Did you do this on your chronicles pre-ITS? If you did, why is this any different? If you did not why do you suddenly feel this is necessary now?

Quote:


SO...
We have the addition of all the notes on the ITS that are extra (the parts beyond just the name and cost of the item which would have been noted on the CR), the fact that we are dealing with at least one additional piece of paper (the ITS itself), and the fact that the items I bought are now subtotaled (either on the ITS or on the CR) before they are totaled with those items only listed on the CR (extra math)...
In fact, I now have items bought in two places... part on the ITS and part on the CR. (Two pieces of paperwork, where we used to only deal with one.)

Yeah, I don't note any subtotal on the ITS or the chronicle. At least no subtotal I did not already put on the chronicle pre-ITS.

For the record, I track every single item on my ITS. So I don't have that last problem. I was tracking every purchase on the chronicles pre-ITS so now I track every purchase on the ITS. Is there an extra sheet? Yes. Is there technically extra writing involved? Yes approximately 3 to 6 characters per item on the ITS, and 2-3 words per chronicle.
Honestly, if that is too much, I consider your complaint to be unreasonable.
Quote:


This is extra work... perhaps not much, but it is still extra paperwork. And yes, some of us resist change. Esp. if it involves extra paperwork.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

graywulfe wrote:
Mike has stated, over and over again, that a note on the chronicle referencing the ITS with how much gp spent is sufficient on the chronicle.

Unfortunately not every PFS player reads the forums, and even those that do may not have seen those posts (I haven't, though I have seen posts that speak of such posts).

But okay, so if I buy the following items after a scenario:
Sword, short (10gp)
Longbow (75gp)
Arrows x40 (2gp)
Chain shirt (100gp)
Alchemist's fire x3 (60gp)
Thunderstone x2 (60gp)
That totals to 307gp and I would record that as follows:

Chronicle Sheet Notes Section
Sword, short (10gp)
Arrows x40 (2gp)
Alchemist's fire x3 (60gp)
ITS Purchases (235gp)

Inventory Tracking Sheet
Longbow (75gp)
Chain shirt (100gp)
Thunderstone x2 (60gp)

Correct?

If so that isn't much extra effort (but it is still spreading the same info across two different pieces of paper, more if you have already filled up the four Consumables spaces on your ITS forcing you to put the Thunderstones on new ITS sheet).

Also, you do have to create a subtotal and then a final total, rather than just create a final total.

Also, would you have to add the three Alchemist's Fires to the ITS in order to track their use, even if you haven't had to add them to the ITS because they cost less than 25gp each?

Or do you track their use in some other way?

If you add them to the ITS do you put "NA" in the Cost as the cost of those items has been tracked on the Chronicle sheet?

Its a bit confusing if you ask me.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
DigitalMage wrote:
graywulfe wrote:
Mike has stated, over and over again, that a note on the chronicle referencing the ITS with how much gp spent is sufficient on the chronicle.

Unfortunately not every PFS player reads the forums, and even those that do may not have seen those posts (I haven't, though I have seen posts that speak of such posts).

But okay, so if I buy the following items after a scenario:
Sword, short (10gp)
Longbow (75gp)
Arrows x40 (2gp)
Chain shirt (100gp)
Alchemist's fire x3 (60gp)
Thunderstone x2 (60gp)
That totals to 307gp and I would record that as follows:

Chronicle Sheet Notes Section
Sword, short (10gp)
Arrows x40 (2gp)
Alchemist's fire x3 (60gp)
ITS Purchases (235gp)

Inventory Tracking Sheet
Longbow (75gp)
Chain shirt (100gp)
Thunderstone x2 (60gp)

Correct?

If so that isn't much extra effort (but it is still spreading the same info across two different pieces of paper, more if you have already filled up the four Consumables spaces on your ITS forcing you to put the Thunderstones on new ITS sheet).

Also, you do have to create a subtotal and then a final total, rather than just create a final total.

Also, would you have to add the three Alchemist's Fires to the ITS in order to track their use, even if you haven't had to add them to the ITS because they cost less than 25gp each?

Or do you track their use in some other way?

If you add them to the ITS do you put "NA" in the Cost as the cost of those items has been tracked on the Chronicle sheet?

Its a bit confusing if you ask me.

I track everything on the ITS. The rule is that anything under a certain price does not need to be tracked on the ITS, not that it can't. I would suggest to people to just track everything on the ITS, it really simplifies this situation.

The Exchange 5/5

graywulfe wrote:
DigitalMage wrote:
graywulfe wrote:
Mike has stated, over and over again, that a note on the chronicle referencing the ITS with how much gp spent is sufficient on the chronicle.

Unfortunately not every PFS player reads the forums, and even those that do may not have seen those posts (I haven't, though I have seen posts that speak of such posts).

But okay, so if I buy the following items after a scenario:
Sword, short (10gp)
Longbow (75gp)
Arrows x40 (2gp)
Chain shirt (100gp)
Alchemist's fire x3 (60gp)
Thunderstone x2 (60gp)
That totals to 307gp and I would record that as follows:

Chronicle Sheet Notes Section
Sword, short (10gp)
Arrows x40 (2gp)
Alchemist's fire x3 (60gp)
ITS Purchases (235gp)

Inventory Tracking Sheet
Longbow (75gp)
Chain shirt (100gp)
Thunderstone x2 (60gp)

Correct?

If so that isn't much extra effort (but it is still spreading the same info across two different pieces of paper, more if you have already filled up the four Consumables spaces on your ITS forcing you to put the Thunderstones on new ITS sheet).

Also, you do have to create a subtotal and then a final total, rather than just create a final total.

Also, would you have to add the three Alchemist's Fires to the ITS in order to track their use, even if you haven't had to add them to the ITS because they cost less than 25gp each?

Or do you track their use in some other way?

If you add them to the ITS do you put "NA" in the Cost as the cost of those items has been tracked on the Chronicle sheet?

Its a bit confusing if you ask me.

I track everything on the ITS. The rule is that anything under a certain price does not need to be tracked on the ITS, not that it can't. I would suggest to people to just track everything on the ITS, it really simplifies this situation.

so... to put it all on the ITS he would have to put it like this correct? (this is assuming he used a thunderstone and an Alchemist's Fire in the adventure he recieved CR4 for)

On Inventory Tracking Sheet page 1
Longbow (75gp) CR4
Chain shirt (100gp) CR4
Thunderstone (30gp) CR4 CR4
Thunderstone (30gp) CR4
Sword, short (10gp) CR4
Arrows x40 (2gp) CR4 (Tracked on a line below in the wands section)
Alchemist's fire (20gp) CR4 CR4
Alchemist's fire (20gp) CR4
Alchemist's fire (20gp) CR4
Total Purchases for CR4 (307gp)

Chronicle Sheet Notes Section on CR4
Purchases on ITS page 1 = (307gp)

This is correct right?

5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
nosig wrote:
so... to put it all on the ITS he would have to put it like this correct?

He could put x2 or x3 for the duplicate items (or just " " on consecutive lines) - there are easy ways of designating the expenditure of individual items (or simply purchase replacements somewhere else and expend those). And not the "Total Purchases from" line.

But otherwise, yes.

The Exchange 5/5

Majuba wrote:
nosig wrote:
so... to put it all on the ITS he would have to put it like this correct?

He could put x2 or x3 for the duplicate items (or just " " on consecutive lines) - there are easy ways of designating the expenditure of individual items (or simply purchase replacements somewhere else and expend those). And not the "Total Purchases from" line.

But otherwise, yes.

what ways do you suggest for designating the expenditure of individual items? My Alchemists normally craft times in 3s or 6s... for example my current low level Alchemist (1st level) crafted 6 flasks of Acid and 6 Alchemist Fires and 6 jars of Alchemical Grease. Three lines would be much better than the 18 it looks like I need. the Ditto marks is what I am currently useing (though I started using the wand tracking lines on one of my Alchemists - with the upper line of check boxes for (created) and the lower for (used) - that way I have one line for Alchemist Fires with 25 check boxes...).

and how do you mean "simply purchase replacements somewhere else and expend those"? items purchased would be listed on the ITS on their own line right? In order to list the CR they were paid for on. And when used that item would be marked as used wouldn't it?

Sorry for the questions - I'm having to explain how the ITS works to a number of beginers that I have started and I want to understand it well before I get the questions from the kids...


It sounds like that's the most common issue with the ITS, right? How to track commonly used consumables?

The precedent of the wand/ammo section suggests that as long as you mark off uses, there's no need to track when each use occurred.

Alternately, you could add lines with a single box for CR made and multiple CR used. Something like:
Acid(6) Made [4] Used [5] [5] [6] [ ] [ ] [ ]

The Exchange 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jayson MF Kip wrote:
nosig wrote:

But... the extra work...with no advantage...

The "advantage" is that others are being held to the same standard you hold yourself to.

I actually do not feel comfortable with doing this. It is to close to telling other people "how to play right".

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