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Since it didn't get changed from 3.5, the designers obviously disagree.
While I agree in this case that haste is fine as published, this line of logic is dubious at best and in some cases a complete fallacy.
My Paladin doesn't care since he only attacks if there is no one else to do the job, and my Rogue already cries because he sucks and haste doesn't really help him do anything.
My rogue would take heroism over haste most of the time. Although both is very nice. I only would really like haste when flanking or greater invisible, the latter is far more common if that is any indication of how often these situations come up.
Although my most recent DPR calculation for a flanking rogue with haste and heroism came out to +35/35/35/30/25 doing 11d6+15 and 2 strength damage per hit with +10 bleed per round against the 36 AC on average which yields 229.35 damage and 8.2 strength damage per round.
Just turned level 11 and started this rogue at 10 (great level).
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It is broke.Since it didn't get changed from 3.5, the designers obviously disagree.
In any event, go ahead and fix it.
Just don't expect any of us to change our games for you.
The designers are hardly infallible. Just ask the Monk, or Rogue. Or look at prone shooter, simulacrum, planar binding, CMD/CMB, size categories, Eidolons, ragelancepounce, instant enemy, etc, etc.
Also, you sound defensive, why?
While I agree in this case that haste is fine as published, this line of logic is dubious at best and in some cases a complete fallacy.Since it didn't get changed from 3.5, the designers obviously disagree.
To be fair, haste is one of D&D's most iconic spells. It's nowhere near as obscure as stuff like Simulacrum and Planar Binding wish factories. I'd like to think it's a bit obvious for the dev team to overlook.
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You know what, I spoke in haste. Consider my post retracted.
I see what you did there. :D
I don't think Haste is overpowered considering the power level of other 3rd level spells.
Fly, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Displacement, and Haste all happen at this level.
All things considered Haste is not really that powerful, especially if you look at 3.x and all the crazy cleric buffs that would stack up for lower level spells.
My Paladin doesn't care since he only attacks if there is no one else to do the job, and my Rogue already cries because he sucks and haste doesn't really help him do anything.Actually, if you're a finesse Rogue who hasn't managed to pick up an enhancement bonus to dex yet, Haste is giving you +2 to hit (+2 dex and +1 haste-bonus-to-hit) ontop of everything else it gives.
That's pretty significant to sir-misses-a-lot.
What is this +2 to DEX nonsense you are spouting?
Haste is great, a staple, but remember back in 3.0 when it allowed wizards to cast a second spell?
This spell has already been toned done and the Pathfinder version is fine. Besides, there are plenty of counters: slow and dispel magic being the most obvious.
Further, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. NPC's and opponent monsters tend to favor martial classes more than PC's. Let them use haste once in a while and watch their action economy explode! Soon your PC's will be spending some of those "haste" spell slots on slow instead.
Haste is great, a staple, but remember back in 3.0 when it allowed wizards to cast a second spell?
This spell has already been toned done and the Pathfinder version is fine. Besides, there are plenty of counters: slow and dispel magic being the most obvious.
Further, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. NPC's and opponent monsters tend to favor martial classes more than PC's. Let them use haste once in a while and watch their action economy explode! Soon your PC's will be spending some of those "haste" spell slots on slow instead.
Funny thing is, slow is an awesome spell, but I haven't seen it cast in literally years, because haste, fly, dispel magic, fireball and you're done. anything beyond that is coming from scrolls, and if you're a Sorcerer, then, well I hope you enjoy casting those four spells, every single time you roll a Sorcerer. Your 3rd level spells are picked for you before you even get 2nd level spells.
You know what, I spoke in haste. Consider my post retracted.
We have a thread-winner everybody!
To be fair, haste is one of D&D's most iconic spells. It's nowhere near as obscure as stuff like Simulacrum and Planar Binding wish factories. I'd like to think it's a bit obvious for the dev team to overlook.While I agree in this case that haste is fine as published, this line of logic is dubious at best and in some cases a complete fallacy.Since it didn't get changed from 3.5, the designers obviously disagree.
That stuff isn't obscure to anyone who has spent a modicum of time on charop boards.
Which is not a majority of players to be honest.
Of course not. The implication is that it should not be obscure to game designers. If I was working on an updated version of 3.5, the first place I would go would be to charop, to get a handle on what my job entails.
It's a nice spell but not too powerful for 3rd level. +30 to movement, +1 to hit, +1 AC and an extra attack on full attack action. As far as 3rd level spells go it's nice one but I never see people take HASTE and nothing but.
I just can't see why, outside of PFS, you can't just house rule this. Why try to nerf it globally, and have other people deal with the downside of the decision, versus just house ruling it how you like.