Wizard with Eldritch Heritage Feat = 2 Arcane Bonds?


Rules Questions

1 to 50 of 93 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

If I'm playing a wizard with an Arcane Bond (item), and I take the feat Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline). Would this allow my to use my Arcane Bond (item) to cast 2 spells?

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.

you would have two different items that you would have two items that would require you to wield them/have them to cast...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The discription of the arcane Bond in the arcane bloodline seem to support only a spontanious caster.
"Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item. Once per day, your bond item allows you to cast any one of our spells known (unlike a wizard's bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook)."
It also say the levels stack that indicates you ADD them togeather not that you get two.
Pehaps. A Shake all level does for the arcane Bond is increases cost to replace:(


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Definitely not two - the ability states that clearly. You could have an exceptionally intelligent familiar, with additional powers beyond the norm.

For instance, at 7th level wizard (5th level equiv. sorcerer), your familiar would have SR 17, and would go up by 2 per level. At 8th you can scry on it, and natural armor increases every level, until you're 11th when it caps out.


Quote:

Eldritch Heritage

You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.
Quote:
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook). This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item.
Quote:

Bonded Object

A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level.
Quote:

Wizard: Spells

A wizard may know any number of spells.

.

Eldritch Hertiage gives you sorcerer arcane bond = Lv -2
Sorcerer arcane bond lets you cast any one of your spell's known.
Wizard may know any number of spells.

So I see this doing 1 of three things.
1) You get an extra casting of a spell using your bonded object.
2) You get an extra casting of a spell using your bonded object that is 1 lower than the highest level you can cast.
3) Eldritch Hertiage (Arcane Bloodline) only affects sorcerer spell and unless your a sorcerer, the feat is useless.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

No extra castings, this line takes precedence:

"Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object."


Correct, but it doesn't say you can't have two bonded objects.
Bonded object 'A', a ring, only uses your wizard levels.
Bonded object 'B', a amulet, uses both your Wizard level + your Sorcerer levels -2.
Just because something stacks doesn't mean you can't have two of them.


Splendor wrote:

Correct, but it doesn't say you can't have two bonded objects.

Bonded object 'A', a ring, only uses your wizard levels.
Bonded object 'B', a amulet, uses both your Wizard level + your Sorcerer levels -2.
Just because something stacks doesn't mean you can't have two of them.

That is quite obviously not how it works.


Majuba wrote:

No extra castings, this line takes precedence:

"Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object."

What powers of the bonded object are dependent on your wizard level?


Rikkan wrote:
Majuba wrote:

No extra castings, this line takes precedence:

"Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object."

What powers of the bonded object are dependent on your wizard level?

The caster level requirement to add magic properties to the item.


"That is quite obviously not how it works."
Obviously? Really? How so? Just stating that its obvious and not backing it up with any other examples or rules or anything, doesn't make your statement true. Nor does it add anything to the discussion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Splendor wrote:

"That is quite obviously not how it works."

Obviously? Really? How so? Just stating that its obvious and not backing it up with any other examples or rules or anything, doesn't make your statement true. Nor does it add anything to the discussion.

He doesn't need to state anything actually - it simply is obvious. For rules, look above. Also look at stacking rules in general.

/thread


Quote:

Stacking

Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.

I don't see how the stacking rules have anything to do with this. Bonded objects don't apply to a check or stat.

I am viewing the bonded object as a personal magical item that functions similar to a pearl of power (that accesses known spells or spells in your spellbook).
If I can have two pearls of power, why couldn't I have two bonded objects? Are you saying that the pearls of power don't "stack"?
If I have the ability to channel from Cleric and again for Life Oracle they are treated as two separate abilities. So those class features both function, but this one doesn't?
If I take the traits Arcane Dabbler (Light), Chosen One, Magical Talent (Light); I would be have the spell-like ability to cast light three times per day. The abilities/feats are treated separately as should two bonded objects.

There are three examples where items/class abilties/traits that if chosen each give the same bonus or effect separately. They don't cancel each other out and only give one bonus.

Bonded object 'A', a ring, only uses your wizard levels.
Bonded object 'B', a amulet, uses both your Wizard level + your Sorcerer levels -2.

I have a wizard in my party who is wondering if its possible, and by my reading of the rules I don't see that it isn't. So please give me some examples to back up your point. If its obvious then there should be plenty of examples where gaining the same once per day item, or class feature, doesn't allow you to use the ability more than once.


If you are going to treat them as two separate items capable of usage, pay attention to this clause here:

Arcane Bond wrote:
Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook).

The Arcane Bond from the power uses Spells Known instead of Spells in Spellbook. Even if, as a Wizard, you took this (I'm surprised you pulled off having such a high Charisma as well as Intelligence; would be better off making an Arcanist in my opinion), it wouldn't really do anything except hinder you even further.

I will not be the guy that says "Oh, they can't stack;" they actually can, especially considering they are treated completely different, even if their effects are the same. But you can't ignore that difference. If it says you can cast any one of your Spells Known, versus Spells in Spellbook on-the-fly (which is actually quite pointless for a Sorcerer in the first place, to be quite honest), then you can't use any of your Wizard Spells to activate your 2nd Bond unless your Wizard Spells count as Spells Known.

Sczarni

I think he's looking at a way to get two crafted item discounts in pathfinder society...


lantzkev wrote:
I think he's looking at a way to get two crafted item discounts in pathfinder society...

I can't think of any GM that would allow that to happen. You'd have to take at least 3 levels in each class and even then, if your GM shuts it down at the table they are at, you have a gimped multiclassed spellcaster.


im not seeing anything in this that says that this DOESN'T give you a second item. from what i can tell, thats the only way this works. you cant have a familiar and a bonded item, so your arcane bond from wizard would have to be a bonded item. the bloodline power clearly takes into consideration that someone might multiclass both classes. it also only mentions the levels of wizard stacking in order to determine the effective level of the bonded object from the bloodline power, not to express that levels in both classes cause a combining of the bloodline power and the class feature from each. the only possibility i can see is that the intent was to actually end up with two separate bonded items. conversly, you would also be able to have two familiars, one from each class.

the only problem that i see is one that others have already stated: without actually having levels in sorcerer, you wont have any spells to cast with your second bonded item because you wont have any sorcerer spell slots, you'd only have your prepared spells from wizard which do not qualify for use with that particular bonded item.

honestly, the only real way to make use of this would be to get the two familiars and have double familiar bonuses...or you could simply just get the bloodline power from a different bloodline.

Sczarni

for some the expenditure of two feats is worth getting an item at half price.


Its not for PFS, its not even for my character. The wizard in my group was looking for something to take. I gave him a list of one I though were half way decent.
He said he wasn't going to waste two feats on something that was effectively a pearl of power. He already has craft wondrous item too.

Above I gave the three different way I would read this spell.
1) You get an extra casting of a spell using your bonded object.
2) You get an extra casting of a spell using your bonded object that is 1 lower than the highest level you can cast.
3) Eldritch Hertiage (Arcane Bloodline) only affects sorcerer spell and unless your a sorcerer, the feat is useless.

Its seem like most people are saying #3.


...I have been reading this thread. The Core Rules state that bonuses from the same source do not stack.

Splendor wrote:
If I'm playing a wizard with an Arcane Bond (item), and I take the feat Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline). Would this allow my to use my Arcane Bond (item) to cast 2 spells?

...2 arcane bonded items do not stack.

Majuba wrote:

Definitely not two - the ability states that clearly. You could have an exceptionally intelligent familiar, with additional powers beyond the norm.

For instance, at 7th level wizard (5th level equiv. sorcerer), your familiar would have SR 17, and would go up by 2 per level. At 8th you can scry on it, and natural armor increases every level, until you're 11th when it caps out.

...wizard and 'equivalent sorcerer levels' do not stack.

Majuba wrote:

No extra castings, this line takes precedence:

"Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object."

...sorcerer level are not equivalent sorcerer levels.

Shimesen wrote:

im not seeing anything in this that says that this DOESN'T give you a second item. from what i can tell, thats the only way this works. you cant have a familiar and a bonded item, so your arcane bond from wizard would have to be a bonded item. the bloodline power clearly takes into consideration that someone might multiclass both classes. it also only mentions the levels of wizard stacking in order to determine the effective level of the bonded object from the bloodline power, not to express that levels in both classes cause a combining of the bloodline power and the class feature from each. the only possibility i can see is that the intent was to actually end up with two separate bonded items. conversly, you would also be able to have two familiars, one from each class.

the only problem that i see is one that others have already stated: without actually having levels in sorcerer, you wont have any spells to cast with your second bonded item because you wont have any sorcerer spell slots, you'd only have your prepared spells from wizard which do not qualify for use with that particular bonded item.

honestly, the only real way to make use of this would be to get the two familiars and have double familiar bonuses...or you could simply just get the bloodline power from a different bloodline.

...you cannot have two familiars from the same source.

Splendor wrote:
Quote:

Stacking

Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.

I don't see how the stacking rules have anything to do with this. Bonded objects don't apply to a check or stat.

I am viewing the bonded object as a personal magical item that functions similar to a pearl of power (that accesses known spells or spells in your spellbook).
If I can have two pearls of power, why couldn't I have two bonded objects? Are you saying that the pearls of power don't "stack"?
If I have the ability to channel from Cleric and again for Life Oracle they are treated as two separate abilities. So those class features both function, but this one doesn't?
If I take the traits Arcane Dabbler (Light), Chosen One, Magical Talent (Light); I would be have the spell-like ability to cast light three times per day. The abilities/feats are treated separately as should two bonded objects.

There are three examples where items/class abilties/traits that if chosen each give the same bonus or effect separately. They don't cancel each other out and only give one bonus.

Bonded object 'A', a ring, only uses your wizard levels.
Bonded object 'B', a amulet, uses both your Wizard level + your Sorcerer levels -2.

I have a wizard in my party who is wondering if its possible, and by my reading of the rules I don't see that it isn't. So please give me some examples to back up your point. If its obvious then there should be plenty of examples where gaining the same once per day item, or class feature, doesn't allow you to use the ability more than once.

...seriously?

fine (with links to Paizo's prd)

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#_sorcerer
"At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard...equal to your sorcerer level"
To repeat: At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard!

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/wizard.html#_wizard
"Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 1st level, wizards..."
Wizards get arcane bond at level 1. It is the same source.

The only places were same sources stack is if they specifically say so: refer to Dodge AC bonus and Kirin Strike (feat)

Sczarni

actually it states bonuses of the same type do not stack, these are not bonuses in the sense that the non-stacking rule applies to.

they are items that provide a specific benefit. Much like the magus black blade, or a gunslingers free gun, etc.

Matter of fact, this is like if someone took a level of gunslinger then took a level of the paladin archetype holy gun.

They would now have two battered guns.


getting extra spells per day is not a bonus?

Sczarni

actually no.

let's put it this way.

If you have two pearls of power, do you get only one spell slot or two spell slots back a day?

(the answer is two, they are two different items, and despite being a "bonus" they are not bonuses. If you want to stay with the bonus theme though, they are untyped and thus stack anyhow (only bonuses of the same type do not stack, except for haste))


...lantzkev, if you want to homebrew some rules - you can do that. familiars are not items. arcane bonded objects are not 'items' in the sense you are talking about.

lantzkev wrote:

actually it states bonuses of the same type do not stack, these are not bonuses in the sense that the non-stacking rule applies to.

they are items that provide a specific benefit. Much like the magus black blade, or a gunslingers free gun, etc.

Matter of fact, this is like if someone took a level of gunslinger then took a level of the paladin archetype holy gun.

They would now have two battered guns.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/gunslinger.html

Gunsmith: At 1st level, a gunslinger gains one of the following firearms of her choice: blunderbuss, musket, or pistol. Her starting weapon is battered, and only she knows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat her gun as if it had the broken condition. If the weapon already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for anyone else trying to use it. This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it's worth 4d10 gp when sold). The gunslinger also gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes/paladin.h tml#_holy-gun-%28archetype%29
Have Gun: At 1st level, the holy gun gains the Amateur Gunslinger feat and Gunsmithing as a bonus feat. She also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger. This ability replaces detect evil.

same source, doesn't stack


lantzkev wrote:

actually no.

let's put it this way.

If you have two pearls of power, do you get only one spell slot or two spell slots back a day?

(the answer is two, they are two different items, and despite being a "bonus" they are not bonuses. If you want to stay with the bonus theme though, they are untyped and thus stack anyhow (only bonuses of the same type do not stack, except for haste))

two pearls of power are not two class abilities... items do not have the same restrictions as class abilities.

Sczarni

you're confusing stacking bonuses with class features.

in your gunslinger situation, you do infact get two guns. They are both stated the same and are identical, but they are from two different sources. (two class features)


homebrew all you want. homebrewing rules doesn't make them magically rules according to raw/rai.


Bonus is a game term, a positive modifier. Being able to cast a spell would e a benefit not a bonus. Adding sorceror levels to wizard levels to determine the arcane bond's power is a bonus, and specifically allowed in this case despite possibly arguably the same source.

Sorceror arcane bond explains that its levels stack with wizard levels for your arcane bond. Singular not plural. If it meant you get a 2nd item more powerful than the first, it would explicitly say that instead. By saying it stacks, that means it does that instead of giving a separate item.

Sczarni

Sarrah wrote:
homebrew all you want. homebrewing rules doesn't make them magically rules according to raw/rai.

you are completely correct.

From getting started

Quote:
Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.

is casting a spell you know a bonus or penalty to a check or statistic? (answer is nope)


Sarrah wrote:
getting extra spells per day is not a bonus?

Not in the technical sense used by the rules. You aren't getting a positive numerical modifier to an attribute or score.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Nothing in the rules stops you from getting the same class feature twice and benefiting from it twice. Perfect example: a multi class magus wizard has the class feature 'Spells'. If what you guys are saying is true, then they would only have 1 'sourse' of spells and one spell book. They in fact have two spell books and two completely seprate lists of spells per day to cast spells from, neither of which stacks with the other. The same goes for the OPs situation, the two arcane bonds are completely different. The 'stacking' that is talked about in the bloodline arcane bond is only used to determine the effective level of sorcerer for that one object. The sorcerers arcane bond is still completely different from the wizard arcane bond. They don't even function interchangibly. One casts a spell using one spell list, the other uses a completely different list. It is because of this separation of spell lists that it only makes sense that there are two objects. Neither one can use the others spell slots or prepared spells from the spell book. If you believe that it just increases the power of the same object then you are asserting that that object is also now capable of casting both prepared and spontaneous spells.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Moving away from bonded item for a moment. A lvl 3 arcane sorc lvl 3 wiz has a lvl 6 familiar. Because the feature says it stacks together this isn't oprional.

This means a wizard with eldritch heritage and a bonded item really doesn't benefit. He already has a. Bonded item and it doesn't have level related bonuses.


Wrong. A 3/3 sorcerer wizard would have a lvl3 bonded object and a lvl 6 bonded object. One can be used to cast sorcerer spells(the level 6 one) the other can cast wizard spells( the level 3 one)


Uhh really? Show me the text supporring that. The rules for stacking. Are iddntical to the familiar.

The only area that isn't clear if the object would let you do 1 sorc spell and 1 wiz spell per day. However there isn't a lot of point in recording it as a lvl 6 bonded item as that has no beaei g really.

At the end of the day iys an identical class feature from two different classes that stacks. This means yoi get a single version of the x
Class feature.


Again, I'm not going to argue they won't stack, but the special benefit for being able to cast one free spell from that second Arcane Bond is that it has to be a spell known instead of a spell in your spellbook.

No Spells Known? No Free Spell.

Everything else still applies the same, though...


Mojorat, you are arguing that they are the same class feature for the reason that they stack. i keep trying to tell you that they are NOT the same. they may be similar, and honestly one is just a copy of the other, but they are still distinctly different. one is spontaneous, the other is not. you are trying to make a case for this by looking at it like the Sneak Attack from rogue and others and how those stack. this is not the same. an arcane bond is NOT a progressive ability that increases with class level. it is a one time get. just like evasion or spellstrike. arcane bond gives you one thing, an item or a familiar, its that "thing" that you get that progresses with your caster level, not the means to which you got it. and even if this WERE the case, you are assuming that these two arcane bonds interact the same way that sneak attack does, in that levels of sneak attack from one class stack with those from another. Firstly, sneak attack states that bonus of the "ability" is what stacks, not the levels from the class. in the case of arcane bond, it is levels in the class itself that stacks, which is not a bonus. Secondly, it specifically states in the bloodline arcane bond that this stacking is only used for the calculation of the effectiveness of the arcane bond, not that it is stacking the two class abilities together completely. SA combines the two abilities entirely (because the only thing that it does is grant a single bonus on damage).

Sczarni

Quote:
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.

I guess your definition of know and known are different than mine...

-edit- also the arcane bond does increase in levels, there's just no benefit to it (basically it's language without any reason for being there)

Quote:
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat.
Quote:
Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object

So a lvl 4 wizard level 1 sorc would have two bonds one that he enchant with arms/armor enchantments (ie a shield as a bond) and wonderous item...


lantzkev wrote:
Quote:
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.
I guess your definition of know and known are different than mine...

actually it is. a sorcerers 'spells known' are the ONLY spells he is capable of casting, where as a wizard can cast any spell he has in his spellbook (assuming he has prepared it in a spell slot for that day). the words you quoted from the CRB are to clarify that a wizard and have an unlimited number of spells written into his spellbook. this does not makes those spells "spells known". "spells known" as a phrase is a defined term used exclusively for spontaneous casters to describe those spells which they have committed to memory and therefore do not have to spend 8 hours every day preparing to cast.

basically a sorcerer actually memorizes anything he ever plans on casting.

a wizard instead writes down every spell he has ever come across, then spends 8 hours every day placing sticky-notes or bookmarks on the pages that he wants to flip to that day.

Sczarni

you sir are factually incorrect, a wizard does in fact learn and know spells.

Quote:
No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell....the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook
Quote:
Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.
Quote:
A wizard may know any number of spells.

Now you may say well sorcerers "spells known" is different from wizards.

Quote:
Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list presented in Spell Lists. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time.
Quote:
A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study.
Quote:
Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level.

As you can see functionally known is the same for either class, the only difference is that sorcerers have no spell book that they must prepare from in advance.

The mechanics of spells known are the same for both classes rule wise. You either know a spell or you do not.

The wording for the sorcerer arcane bond was changed to prevent sorcers from having a book of utility spells that they could arcane bond from, thus bypassing the limitation of spells known.


so basically, you are sugesting that any item, class feature, or feat that uses the phrase "use(s) ....Spells known..." applies to wizards and sorcerers equally? that a wizard 1/sorcerer 1 can have an unlimited number of spells known capable of being cast from his sorcerer spells per day slots because he knows them via a single level in wizard? are you mad? i think you are intentionally misinterpreting the rules to suit your apparent agenda...

Sczarni

no I think you're intentionally distorting what I'm saying.

An arcane bond on a sorc1/wiz1 would have two arcane bonds.

the sorc one could pull from the wizard book (assuming it was one he wrote in and had learned) or one from the spells known list. The wizard bonded object would only be able to pull from the book.

The sorc says you must know the spell (for most sorcerers this is what's on the known spell list) if they have a wizard side, any spell they have learned in it is a candidate.

The wizard arcane bond says any spell in the spellbook. So it can only cast one from the book and not the book and spells known list.

What you're referring to is something completely unrelated to the conversation (arcane bonds, while you're talking about ability to cast spells in general)


You're welcome to your own interpretations. Just don't count on your GM ruling it that way. Especially in PFS.

Sczarni

that's exactly what I'm saying though is raw the arcane bond refers to spells known.

As I've shown above, wizards do infact have spells known, it's just unlimited. So regardless of any feelings on the issue, raw doesn't distinguish between a wizard spell known and a sorc spell known for the purpose of arcane bond.


so what you are saying is that essentially, any sorcerer who takes a 1 level dip in wizard can potentially have the entire spell list available to cast at will? wow...im done talking to you now....your interpritation of the rules is just....

Sczarni

my interpretation is correct?....

And it's not that they are able to cast all spells, but yes if they dip a lvl of wizard, anything they have known in the spell book is available to cast with arcane bond from the sorcerer as it meets the raw of arcane bond.

If this happened, the sorc wouldn't cast his first lvl 2 spell until lvl 5. The same level a wizard is casting lvl 3 spells...


no, your interpretation is far from correct. what you are describing goes against everything that the limitations of each of the classes represents. neither of these classes is supposed to be capable of being prepared for any situation at a moments notice, and yet by taking a one level dip into wizard, a sorcerer can now have an unlimited number of "spells known" according to you. i say again, you are attempting to bend the rules to suit your own needs. its cheese, not what was intended, and anyone who thinks that this is how it works is attempting to break the system.


And if you really want to argue that what you say is raw, then a wizard 19 who dips sorcerer at 20th would forget and be completely unable to cast any spell in their spell book that they didn't choose when they gained a level in sorcerer because a sorcerer is only allowed to "know" a number of spells as listed on its class table. That number is fixed and cannot be changed. So there...

Sczarni

you're incorrect in your wiz 19 sorc 1 assertion. Sorcerers are only limited by their spells known table, wizards are not.

Quote:
neither of these classes is supposed to be capable of being prepared for any situation at a moments notice,

Actually wizards very nearly are, specially with fast preparation feat/discovery.

Quote:
a sorcerer can now have an unlimited number of "spells known" according to you.

If they take arcane bloodline, and take arcane bonded item, and invest in having a spell book, and make their checks... in short yes.

ring of arcane knowledge:

RING OF SPELL KNOWLEDGE
Price Varies; Aura moderate or strong (no school); CL 7th; Weight —
Type I 1,500 gp; Type II 6,000 gp; Type III 13,500; Type IV 24,000 gp
This ring comes in four types: ring of spell knowledge I, ring of spell knowledge II, ring of spell knowledge III, and ring of spell knowledge IV. All of them are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters. Through study, the wearer can gain the knowledge of a single spell in addition to those allotted by her class and level. A ring of spell knowledge I can hold 1st-level spells only, a ring of spell knowledge II 1st- or 2nd-level spells, a ring of spell knowledge III spells of 3rd level or lower, and a ring of spell knowledge IV up to 4th-level spells.

Page of Spell knowledge:
PAGE OF SPELL KNOWLEDGE
Price varies
1st-level 1,000 gp; 2nd-level 4,000 gp
3rd-level 9,000 gp; 4th-level 16,000 gp
5th-level 25,000 gp; 6th-level 36,000 gp
7th-level 49,000 gp; 8th-level 64,000 gp
9th-level 81,000 gp; Aura strong transmutation; CL 17th; Weight —
This page is covered in densely-worded arcane or divine magical runes. It contains the knowledge of a single arcane or divine spell (chosen by the creator when the item is crafted). If the bearer is a spontaneous spellcaster and has that spell on her class spell list, she may use her spell slots to cast that spell as if it were one of her spells known. A page of spell knowledge is priced based on the spell's cleric or sorcerer/wizard spell level, unless the spell doesn't appear on either of those spell lists, in which case it is based on the highest spell level as it appears on any other spell list. For example, a spell that is on the 4th-level inquisitor list and the 2nd-level paladin list is priced as a 4th-level spell.

I'm guessing those items are total bologna also right?

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Anyways, Only one bonded item. It specifically says it stacks with your current wizard levels for your bonded item. So... you don't get "separate" levels for bonded items, you get an item as if you were a wizard of X level.

1 to 50 of 93 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Wizard with Eldritch Heritage Feat = 2 Arcane Bonds? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.