I think I've been playing precise shot wrong.....


Rules Questions


We've always played that the soft cover bonus and the firing into melee penalty were the same thing. But we've started pathfinder recently and have been relearning the rules.

Precise Shot

Quote:
You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll.

Improved Precise Shot

Quote:
Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment.

Soft Cover

Quote:
Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.

So if I'm fighting in a corridor and the enemy has some archers behind him who shoot at me..

1) They take a -4 to hit (shooting into combat) and I gain a +4 soft cover bonus to AC.
2) If they have precise shot I only gain the soft cover bonus.
3) If they have improved precise shot I gain no bonuses.
4) If they could move to an area where the line from them to me doesn't cross their allies square and they had precise shot they would not be any adjustment to attack rolls or AC.

a) Is this correct?
b) Would I gain partial soft cover and not soft cover?
c) Would I gain soft cover (or partial soft cover) if someone ran up behind the enemy and used a reach weapon through his square?


a) All of that is correct, yes.

b) In which situation? In the situations you've described, there's either full cover (ally in the way) or no cover (moved to where ally isn't in the way).

Partial cover is typically granted if there's something like a low wall between the shooter and the target, or part of (but not all of) the shooter's angle is obscured by something, or if, say, a Large-sized creature is covered by a creature that's Medium-sized.

c) I wouldn't say so, but some GMs might grant partial cover in that situation.


Are wrote:


c) I wouldn't say so, but some GMs might grant partial cover in that situation.

For reach weapons, or rather for attacks with reach in general... you use the same cover rules as ranged attacks.

If someone attacks with a reach weapon, and someone is standing between them and their target... the target gets the cover bonus.


Yeah, you seem to basically have it right. Imp. Precise Shot is a great feat, it removes a lot of annoyances, which is why rangers and zen archers getting it 5 levels early is so nice.

If you allow D&D 3E rules material, note that the Magic Item Compendium has a 2500 gp face slot item, the Goggles of Foefinding, which eliminates any cover bonuses (other than total cover) a target may have. A very affordable and handy purchase for any archer or reach weapon user. 3E also had a feat, Precise Swing, that eliminated the soft cover bonus foes got when you used a reach weapon (but didn't benefit ranged attacking).

Liberty's Edge

OP: in short, a ranged attack at a target in melee, who doesn't have precise shot, and has an intervening creature, has what essentially amounts to a -8 to his attack roll.

If you're attacking someone with a reach weapon, and there is another creature between you and the target, the target gets a +4 to AC.

EDIT: uh, ninja'd, but just throwing in my support.


direct me to where it says reach weapons follow the rules for ranged attacks? one of my players asked this very question.


@ awp832: From the Core Rulebook pg. 195: Cover ... When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon) use the rules for determining cover from from ranged attacks.


Remy Balster wrote:
Are wrote:


c) I wouldn't say so, but some GMs might grant partial cover in that situation.

For reach weapons, or rather for attacks with reach in general... you use the same cover rules as ranged attacks.

If someone attacks with a reach weapon, and someone is standing between them and their target... the target gets the cover bonus.

Yes, I got confused about the question; For some reason I thought he was asking if he got cover against the archer if the person behind the archer was using a reach weapon through the archer's square :)


I have "page 195" tattooed on my face.

Sczarni

If you play archery by the rules it's not nearly as overpowered as people claim... But neglect to account for one of the -4 modifiers and it becomes a whole heck of a lot easier...

Admittedly, my group has been playing reach wrong, but it doesn't come up nearly as often...


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
I have "page 195" tattooed on my face.

You'd make a good phone operator :)


Krodjin wrote:

If you play archery by the rules it's not nearly as overpowered as people claim... But neglect to account for one of the -4 modifiers and it becomes a whole heck of a lot easier...

Admittedly, my group has been playing reach wrong, but it doesn't come up nearly as often...

Most decent archery builds don't have any of those penalties. You can remove most of them before getting your first additional iterative attack.

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