Gregory Connolly |
Crossblooded Sorcerer (orc/dragon) 1/ Admixture Wizard 5 is strong, you could easily rock a 12d6+24 point Fireball with the right feats and traits.
Guide 2/ Invulnerable Rager 2/ Unbreakable 2 is good for all your melee needs, bonus points for having a primary bite attack like a tengu, half-orc or tiefling.
Zen Archer 6 is probably the strongest archer.
Mystic Theurge 3 from Cleric 1 or 2 or Oracle 1 and Wizard 1 or 2 or Witch 1 or 2 or Sorcerer 1 early entry are by far the best spellcasters.
Magus 6 with a laser focus on Shocking Grasp will prosper because nobody ever gets a high BAB or 4th level spells.
Ranger 6 or Fighter 6 going for Improved Two Weapon Fighting is strong as well.
Paladin 2/ Oracle 4 can rock the Oradin build very well in this format.
666bender |
Crossblooded Sorcerer (orc/dragon) 1/ Admixture Wizard 5 is strong, you could easily rock a 12d6+24 point Fireball with the right feats and traits.
Guide 2/ Invulnerable Rager 2/ Unbreakable 2 is good for all your melee needs, bonus points for having a primary bite attack like a tengu, half-orc or tiefling.
Zen Archer 6 is probably the strongest archer.
Mystic Theurge 3 from Cleric 1 or 2 or Oracle 1 and Wizard 1 or 2 or Witch 1 or 2 or Sorcerer 1 early entry are by far the best spellcasters.
Magus 6 with a laser focus on Shocking Grasp will prosper because nobody ever gets a high BAB or 4th level spells.
Ranger 6 or Fighter 6 going for Improved Two Weapon Fighting is strong as well.
Paladin 2/ Oracle 4 can rock the Oradin build very well in this format.
how early can you be as a mystic?
you need at least "Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells."so its level 7 min
Gregory Connolly |
A few more...
Bard or Summoner or Magus 1/ Cleric 2/ Mystic Theurge 3 is also very good.
Ninja 3/ Witch or Wizard 1/ Arcane Trickster 2 early entry is good for a sneak build.
Crossblooded Sorcerer (orc/dragon) 1/ Admixture Wizard 1/ Bloatmage 4 early entry is even worse than above.
Paladin 4/ Ranger 1/ Holy Vindicator 1 is a strong demonslayer.
Gregory Connolly |
Any race that grants a 2nd level arcane SLA combined with either a Cleric with the Trickery domain or an Oracle with the Wood mystery can qualify for Mystic Theurge at level 4 (skill requirements stop you from getting it earlier.) With early entry the class is strong and very playable, waiting until level 7 makes it a worse choice than being any single caster class.
Cap. Darling |
Crossblooded Sorcerer (orc/dragon) 1/ Admixture Wizard 5 is strong, you could easily rock a 12d6+24 point Fireball with the right feats and traits.
Guide 2/ Invulnerable Rager 2/ Unbreakable 2 is good for all your melee needs, bonus points for having a primary bite attack like a tengu, half-orc or tiefling.
Zen Archer 6 is probably the strongest archer.
Mystic Theurge 3 from Cleric 1 or 2 or Oracle 1 and Wizard 1 or 2 or Witch 1 or 2 or Sorcerer 1 early entry are by far the best spellcasters.
Magus 6 with a laser focus on Shocking Grasp will prosper because nobody ever gets a high BAB or 4th level spells.
Ranger 6 or Fighter 6 going for Improved Two Weapon Fighting is strong as well.
Paladin 2/ Oracle 4 can rock the Oradin build very well in this format.
How Can you get 12d6+24 fireballs? Can you easily fix a +7 to caster level ? Sounds a little too good. I generally Think your suggestions need a bit more explanation, at least for me to Think you are on to somthing.
Edit: and why is improved TWF strong in E6 when it is questionable in other games?Cap. Darling |
Quote:Edit: and why is improved TWF strong in E6 when it is questionable in other games?e6 limits BAB and iterative attacks, so ITWF is one of the few ways to get more attacks.
Yes. It is a Way to get several weak attacks. And that is not good compared to say a great sword. It is not bad but it is worse than a two handed weapon in almost every scenario i Can Think of.
Gregory Connolly |
Sure, I get ahead of myself, explanations are here.
1 level of Crossblooded Sorcerer gives you both bloodline arcana. So Orc gives +1 damage per die and Draconic gives you +1 damage per die if it matches to your element. The traits Magical Lineage(magic) and Wayang Spellhunter/Metamagic Master(regional) both let you tack a level of metamagic feats on one specific spell. Bloatmage Initiate/Bloodmage Initiate and Varisian Tattoo/Mage's Tattoo both add to caster level for one school of magic and Spell Specialization adds 2 caster levels to one specific spell. So:
Human Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Wizard 5
Traits: Magical Lineage(Fireball), Metamagic Master(Fireball)
Feats: Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Specialization(Burning Hands then Fireball at Wizard 4), Scribe Scroll, Mage's Tattoo(Evocation), Free Feat Choice, Empower Spell
As for why Improved Two Weapon Fighting is so good: The same reason natural attack builds are so good, 4 attacks on a full attack. If the highest BAB a humanoid can have is +6 and there is no possible way to get it and sneak attack at the same time then Ranger and Fighter who both get a bonus feat right at BAB+6 can take ITWF and nobody else can get it without GM fiat. 2 +x keen speed kukris is perfect equipment.
Cap. Darling |
So + 1 cl from tatto and +1 from bloatmage initiate and 2 from spel spec and then the rest from empower? Then i belive the correct Way to write the damage Will be (9d6+18)x1,5 +2. And you are rigth that is great:) but only when it if a fire spell with other elements it Will lose 9x1,5 but still be great.
The TWF i disagree with. The natural attacks are good because you get several attacks at full Bab not 2 at Bab-2 and 2 at Bab -7. One Big falchion is gonna be better than 2 kukris in almost every figth and it wil save you 2-3 feats for other stuff as Well.
Edit: and thanks for explaining the stuff:)
BigDTBone |
Sure, I get ahead of myself, explanations are here.
1 level of Crossblooded Sorcerer gives you both bloodline arcana. So Orc gives +1 damage per die and Draconic gives you +1 damage per die if it matches to your element. The traits Magical Lineage(magic) and Wayang Spellhunter/Metamagic Master(regional) both let you tack a level of metamagic feats on one specific spell. Bloatmage Initiate/Bloodmage Initiate and Varisian Tattoo/Mage's Tattoo both add to caster level for one school of magic and Spell Specialization adds 2 caster levels to one specific spell. So:
Human Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Wizard 5
Traits: Magical Lineage(Fireball), Metamagic Master(Fireball)
Feats: Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Specialization(Burning Hands then Fireball at Wizard 4), Scribe Scroll, Mage's Tattoo(Evocation), Free Feat Choice, Empower SpellAs for why Improved Two Weapon Fighting is so good: The same reason natural attack builds are so good, 4 attacks on a full attack. If the highest BAB a humanoid can have is +6 and there is no possible way to get it and sneak attack at the same time then Ranger and Fighter who both get a bonus feat right at BAB+6 can take ITWF and nobody else can get it without GM fiat. 2 +x keen speed kukris is perfect equipment.
Empower doesn't work that way. You would get 9d6*(1.5)+18(bloodlines)+4(evoker intense spell ability) for avg dmg of 53. That's still pretty phenomenal for 6th level. Thasalonian specialist wizard archetype will let you do it 1 extra time per day.
BigDTBone |
So + 1 cl from tatto and +1 from bloatmage initiate and 2 from spel spec and then the rest from empower? Then i belive the correct Way to write the damage Will be (9d6+18)x1,5 +2. And you are rigth that is great:) but only when it if a fire spell with other elements it Will lose 9x1,5 but still be great.
The TWF i disagree with. The natural attacks are good because you get several attacks at full Bab not 2 at Bab-2 and 2 at Bab -7. One Big falchion is gonna be better than 2 kukris in almost every figth and it wil save you 2-3 feats for other stuff as Well.
Edit: and thanks for explaining the stuff:)
Empower only increases spell variables, not statics.
Cap. Darling |
Cap. Darling wrote:Empower only increases spell variables, not statics.So + 1 cl from tatto and +1 from bloatmage initiate and 2 from spel spec and then the rest from empower? Then i belive the correct Way to write the damage Will be (9d6+18)x1,5 +2. And you are rigth that is great:) but only when it if a fire spell with other elements it Will lose 9x1,5 but still be great.
The TWF i disagree with. The natural attacks are good because you get several attacks at full Bab not 2 at Bab-2 and 2 at Bab -7. One Big falchion is gonna be better than 2 kukris in almost every figth and it wil save you 2-3 feats for other stuff as Well.
Edit: and thanks for explaining the stuff:)
In my book it says "Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls."
Pehaps one Can make a case of the bloodline arcane bonus isent "of the spell" but since the evoker power mention empower and they dont i Think it is not the case.Gregory Connolly |
No problem, I learned most of that from the Blockbuster Wizard Guide on the guide to the guides. I think that most of a kukri build is powered by magic items which may or may not be available, but still at least on par with a falchion build. The falchion build is getting 3 attacks +6/+6/+1 before bonuses, and haste is all you need to fully power up combined with one weapon to enchant and being able to still crush faces with Vital Strike or Lunge with that feat. A character can apply a high Str bonus to one weapon 3 times at a x1.5 bonus with Haste or 6 times at x1 bonus with Double Slice and speed weapons. Add something like Favored Enemy or Weapon Specialization & Weapon Training to 6 attacks and it does far more damage when you can full attack.
Cap. Darling |
Gregory Connolly wrote:Empower doesn't work that way. You would get 9d6*(1.5)+18(bloodlines)+4(evoker intense spell ability) for avg dmg of 53. That's still pretty phenomenal for 6th level. Thasalonian specialist wizard archetype will let you do it 1 extra time per day.Sure, I get ahead of myself, explanations are here.
1 level of Crossblooded Sorcerer gives you both bloodline arcana. So Orc gives +1 damage per die and Draconic gives you +1 damage per die if it matches to your element. The traits Magical Lineage(magic) and Wayang Spellhunter/Metamagic Master(regional) both let you tack a level of metamagic feats on one specific spell. Bloatmage Initiate/Bloodmage Initiate and Varisian Tattoo/Mage's Tattoo both add to caster level for one school of magic and Spell Specialization adds 2 caster levels to one specific spell. So:
Human Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Wizard 5
Traits: Magical Lineage(Fireball), Metamagic Master(Fireball)
Feats: Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Specialization(Burning Hands then Fireball at Wizard 4), Scribe Scroll, Mage's Tattoo(Evocation), Free Feat Choice, Empower SpellAs for why Improved Two Weapon Fighting is so good: The same reason natural attack builds are so good, 4 attacks on a full attack. If the highest BAB a humanoid can have is +6 and there is no possible way to get it and sneak attack at the same time then Ranger and Fighter who both get a bonus feat right at BAB+6 can take ITWF and nobody else can get it without GM fiat. 2 +x keen speed kukris is perfect equipment.
Only +2 from evoker intense spells his wizard level is only 5.
BigDTBone |
BigDTBone wrote:Only +2 from evoker intense spells his wizard level is only 5.Gregory Connolly wrote:Empower doesn't work that way. You would get 9d6*(1.5)+18(bloodlines)+4(evoker intense spell ability) for avg dmg of 53. That's still pretty phenomenal for 6th level. Thasalonian specialist wizard archetype will let you do it 1 extra time per day.Sure, I get ahead of myself, explanations are here.
1 level of Crossblooded Sorcerer gives you both bloodline arcana. So Orc gives +1 damage per die and Draconic gives you +1 damage per die if it matches to your element. The traits Magical Lineage(magic) and Wayang Spellhunter/Metamagic Master(regional) both let you tack a level of metamagic feats on one specific spell. Bloatmage Initiate/Bloodmage Initiate and Varisian Tattoo/Mage's Tattoo both add to caster level for one school of magic and Spell Specialization adds 2 caster levels to one specific spell. So:
Human Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Wizard 5
Traits: Magical Lineage(Fireball), Metamagic Master(Fireball)
Feats: Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Specialization(Burning Hands then Fireball at Wizard 4), Scribe Scroll, Mage's Tattoo(Evocation), Free Feat Choice, Empower SpellAs for why Improved Two Weapon Fighting is so good: The same reason natural attack builds are so good, 4 attacks on a full attack. If the highest BAB a humanoid can have is +6 and there is no possible way to get it and sneak attack at the same time then Ranger and Fighter who both get a bonus feat right at BAB+6 can take ITWF and nobody else can get it without GM fiat. 2 +x keen speed kukris is perfect equipment.
For that spell he is level 9.
Cap. Darling |
Cap. Darling wrote:For that spell he is level 9.BigDTBone wrote:Only +2 from evoker intense spells his wizard level is only 5.Gregory Connolly wrote:Empower doesn't work that way. You would get 9d6*(1.5)+18(bloodlines)+4(evoker intense spell ability) for avg dmg of 53. That's still pretty phenomenal for 6th level. Thasalonian specialist wizard archetype will let you do it 1 extra time per day.Sure, I get ahead of myself, explanations are here.
1 level of Crossblooded Sorcerer gives you both bloodline arcana. So Orc gives +1 damage per die and Draconic gives you +1 damage per die if it matches to your element. The traits Magical Lineage(magic) and Wayang Spellhunter/Metamagic Master(regional) both let you tack a level of metamagic feats on one specific spell. Bloatmage Initiate/Bloodmage Initiate and Varisian Tattoo/Mage's Tattoo both add to caster level for one school of magic and Spell Specialization adds 2 caster levels to one specific spell. So:
Human Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Wizard 5
Traits: Magical Lineage(Fireball), Metamagic Master(Fireball)
Feats: Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Specialization(Burning Hands then Fireball at Wizard 4), Scribe Scroll, Mage's Tattoo(Evocation), Free Feat Choice, Empower SpellAs for why Improved Two Weapon Fighting is so good: The same reason natural attack builds are so good, 4 attacks on a full attack. If the highest BAB a humanoid can have is +6 and there is no possible way to get it and sneak attack at the same time then Ranger and Fighter who both get a bonus feat right at BAB+6 can take ITWF and nobody else can get it without GM fiat. 2 +x keen speed kukris is perfect equipment.
his caster level not his wizard level.
doctor_wu |
Natural weapon ranger will be powerful for most of it with multiple attacks with not having the downside of no iterative attacks at higher levels. Could still run into trouble agianst some low level incrorpreal undead.
I also think verdant bloodline for sorceror starts off strong but doesn't have the downside of the bad high level abilities with a good first level ability to perform different combat manuevers with 15 foot reach. Only 2 hours of sleep needed at night prevents some getting disturbed losing spells can't starve and get some good spells.
Cap. Darling |
No problem, I learned most of that from the Blockbuster Wizard Guide on the guide to the guides. I think that most of a kukri build is powered by magic items which may or may not be available, but still at least on par with a falchion build. The falchion build is getting 3 attacks +6/+6/+1 before bonuses, and haste is all you need to fully power up combined with one weapon to enchant and being able to still crush faces with Vital Strike or Lunge with that feat. A character can apply a high Str bonus to one weapon 3 times at a x1.5 bonus with Haste or 6 times at x1 bonus with Double Slice and speed weapons. Add something like Favored Enemy or Weapon Specialization & Weapon Training to 6 attacks and it does far more damage when you can full attack.
speed weapons dosent stack with haste. The kukri builds are powed by weapon spec and favored enemylike things( or smite) but they are behind the two handed ones.
Edit: also things that proc. On a crit is important for kukri guys but not really part of E6.BigDTBone |
BigDTBone wrote:his caster level not his wizard level.Cap. Darling wrote:For that spell he is level 9.BigDTBone wrote:Only +2 from evoker intense spells his wizard level is only 5.Gregory Connolly wrote:Empower doesn't work that way. You would get 9d6*(1.5)+18(bloodlines)+4(evoker intense spell ability) for avg dmg of 53. That's still pretty phenomenal for 6th level. Thasalonian specialist wizard archetype will let you do it 1 extra time per day.Sure, I get ahead of myself, explanations are here.
1 level of Crossblooded Sorcerer gives you both bloodline arcana. So Orc gives +1 damage per die and Draconic gives you +1 damage per die if it matches to your element. The traits Magical Lineage(magic) and Wayang Spellhunter/Metamagic Master(regional) both let you tack a level of metamagic feats on one specific spell. Bloatmage Initiate/Bloodmage Initiate and Varisian Tattoo/Mage's Tattoo both add to caster level for one school of magic and Spell Specialization adds 2 caster levels to one specific spell. So:
Human Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Wizard 5
Traits: Magical Lineage(Fireball), Metamagic Master(Fireball)
Feats: Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Specialization(Burning Hands then Fireball at Wizard 4), Scribe Scroll, Mage's Tattoo(Evocation), Free Feat Choice, Empower SpellAs for why Improved Two Weapon Fighting is so good: The same reason natural attack builds are so good, 4 attacks on a full attack. If the highest BAB a humanoid can have is +6 and there is no possible way to get it and sneak attack at the same time then Ranger and Fighter who both get a bonus feat right at BAB+6 can take ITWF and nobody else can get it without GM fiat. 2 +x keen speed kukris is perfect equipment.
You're right. I've been doing that wrong. That's a dumb distinction (IMHO) that the game makes. I think I will continue to ignore that in my games.
Gregory Connolly |
Also half-elf Summoner 6 with a favored class bonus extra evolution and Extra Evolution x2 can make a stupid good Eidolon, though the character will be only a support caster.
Eidolon level 6 evolution pool 12
Feats: Multiweapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency(wakizashi), Multiattack
Form: Quadroped
Free Evolutions: Bite, Limbs(Legs)x2
Evolutions:Pounce, Claws(on forelegs), Limbs(Arms)x5
Can attack 13 times on a charge all at BAB -2
lemeres |
One of the strongest? A tricked out archaeologist bard dip with the rest in barbarian (assuming that the loss of your second iterative is not a deal breaker; haven't played enough E6 to know for sure).
The idea of the archaeologist dip is to maximize the usefulness of its luck ability, which trades away performance for a luck bonus to attack, damage, saves, AND skills that is on par with inspire courage. By maximizing its use, you are able to get a rage like ability (which would then stack with regular rage).
This idea relies upon a trait, fate's favored, and a feat, lingering performance. Fate's favored is what makes this so powerful, since it adds +1 to all luck bonuses, meaning that this dip gives you a +2 to....just about everything that a barbarian cares about.
But of course, you are limited to 4+CHA rounds of this per day. That is where lingering performance kicks in. Because the archaeologist's luck works like performance for the purpose of feats and such, this feat can allow you to greatly extend your daily rounds. Essentially, it allows the effect of a performance to last for 2 rounds after you end it. That means you can spend one round of luck, and then ride it for 2 more rounds, effectively tripling the resource.
With just a CHA of 14 (not that hard with a 20 pt buy), you get 18 effective rounds of +2 attack, damage, and saves per day, which should be more than enough to cover most fights. And again, this stacks with rage, so that is a +4 to attack, and +5 to damage (assuming that you are two handing). And this can be accomplished by level 2
Cap. Darling |
Also half-elf Summoner 6 with a favored class bonus extra evolution and Extra Evolution x2 can make a stupid good Eidolon, though the character will be only a support caster.
Eidolon level 6 evolution pool 12
Feats: Multiweapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency(wakizashi), Multiattack
Form: Quadroped
Free Evolutions: Bite, Limbs(Legs)x2
Evolutions:Pounce, Claws(on forelegs), Limbs(Arms)x5Can attack 13 times on a charge all at BAB -2
yes summoner is Easy to breaks the game with but on that the 3 natural attacks would be Bab-5 and most kind of damage reduktion would make the eidolol look worthless.
Edit: woops missed you gave it multi attack.Edit2 also the To hit of this eidololn is not gonna be that great.
Cap. Darling |
Strongest? A tricked out archaeologist bard dip with the rest in barbarian (assuming that the loss of your second iterative is not a deal breaker; haven't played enough E6 to know for sure).
The idea of the archaeologist dip is to maximize the usefulness of its luck ability, which trades away performance for a luck bonus to attack, damage, saves, AND skills that is on par with inspire courage. By maximizing its use, you are able to get a rage like ability (which would then stack with regular rage).
This idea relies upon a trait, fate's favored, and a feat, lingering performance. Fate's favored is what makes this so powerful, since it adds +1 to all luck bonuses, meaning that this dip gives you a +2 to....just about everything that a barbarian cares about.
But of course, you are limited to 4+CHA rounds of this per day. That is where lingering performance kicks in. Because the archaeologist's luck works like performance for the purpose of feats and such, this feat can allow you to greatly extend your daily rounds. Essentially, it allows the effect of a performance to last for 2 rounds after you end it. That means you can spend one round of luck, and then ride it for 2 more rounds, effectively tripling the resource.
With just a CHA of 14 (not that hard with a 20 pt buy), you get 18 effective rounds of +2 attack, damage, and saves per day, which should be more than enough to cover most fights. And again, this stacks with rage, so that is a +4 to attack, and +5 to damage.
if you spend the 5 built points str the feat on weapon focus i Think barb all the Way wins. You lose spells and skills and the general bonus from luck but win a extra rage power and duration. It is a clever trick but i Think it is a bit expencive on a barb in E6.
lemeres |
if you spend the 5 built points str the feat on weapon focus i Think barb all the Way wins. You lose spells and skills and the general bonus from luck but win a extra rage power and duration. It is a clever trick but i Think it is a bit expencive on a barb in E6.
Hmmm... I suppose. Admittedly, in order to get that CHA, you do have to lower your strength a bit. Saves are going to be nice though due to multiclass and luck bonus. But overall, it is probably better on a build with more levels, or maybe with a reallly nice point buy where you can spare points for CHA.
Skizzlefrits |
A tricked out archaeologist bard dip with the rest in barbarian (assuming that the loss of your second iterative is not a deal breaker; haven't played enough E6 to know for sure).
There is an Epic Feat(Combat Improvement) that increases your BAB by 1, which should bring your BAB from +5 to +6/+1.
Headfirst |
I've been part of an ongoing E6 game for the last two years. Here are the most powerful characters so far:
Tengu Ranger 6 - Ranged combat focus. In E6, rangers are amazing because they compete in every category: iterative attacks, decent armor, melee or ranged combat, spells, pets, skills, etc. Tengu attributes stack nicely and alternate racial traits fill in all the blanks.
Elf Wizard 6 - Conjurer with feats stacking up to focused shot. Who needs to worry about conserving spells when you can always fall back on a longbow attack that deals 2d6 (with Gravity Bow) plus your Intelligence modifier damage?
Human Paladin 6 - Maximized charisma and feats piled up to earn Ultimate Mercy (that's right, raise dead in E6, kids). Your party will love you!
Half-Orc Cleric 6 - City-raised worshiper of Erastil grants longsword and longbow proficiency, respectively. Domains include plant (growth) for instant Enlarge and Animal (feather) for a pet and perception bonus. Stack up your feats for Improved Improvisation and you have a character who can literally do almost anything.
Half-Elf Summoner 6 - Forget about pounce or weapons. Just keep adding slam attacks. By 6th level, you have an eidolon you can enlarge to do 4 slams per round with 10' reach, each doing 4d6+7 damage. Needless to say, having Haste on your spell list is gravy.
JuanAdriel |
Human Paladin 6 - Maximized charisma and feats piled up to earn Ultimate Mercy (that's right, raise dead in E6, kids). Your party will love you!
Its not that easy to get 10 lay on hands, so it will not work until you get some feats for extra xp after level 6, but nice to have it.