Magic (Traps) and Perception

[Blackbot]

Hi,

can a normal human/goblin/orc/whatever notice magic?
I assume they do have some ability do do so since everybody can notice a magic trap (even one which has alarm as a trigger), but it's not noted how this happens. Abjuration says that:

Quote:

If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Perception skill drops by 4.

This suggests that visible fluctuations are not the "normal" state. I assume that the "DC to find such spells" focuses on stuff like glyphs and magic traps since I cannot find "normal" way of percepting magic.

But this raises the question: If a normal person cannot "see" magic, how can they detect a magic trap? What is the difference between "I guarded this area with an alarm spell" and "I guarded this area with an alarm spell and if it goes off, a fireball explodes"? What makes the latter of the two detectable without detect magic and how do I detect it? Is it a hunch? A flirring in the air? A little shining line on the ground which mysteriously goes dark when I can't see (since darkness still imposes huge penalties to perception)? Is it a faint buzzing? Or just whatever the heck I want it to be?

Also: I suppose that when a character manages to roll a high enough perception check to notice a trap he notices that, well, it's a trap and not just some undefined magic effect, right? How does he know? How can I describe that feeling instead of saying "Yup, you're seeing a magic trap alright. Though of course you don't see the magic itself. Just that it's a magic trap. Because reasons."?

[Splendor]

Quote:

Magic Trap: The DC for both Perception and Disable Device checks is equal to 25 + the spell level of the highest level spell used. Only characters with the trapfinding class feature can attempt a Disable Device check involving a magic trap.

- Core 417

So it seem like anyone can see magic if they are perceptive enough.

However

Quote:

A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find a fire trap...

Magic traps are hard to detect. A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find a spike growth.

Magic traps such as spike stones are hard to detect. A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find spike stones.

A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find a symbol of (all symbol spells said the same thing).

This would lead me to believe that only rogues can seem to find traps created by spellcasting. But permanent enchantments can be seen by anyone. Maybe there is a errata that better defines this.

I would say at a minimum that the character notices a subtle pressure change in the area and at the most that see almost invisible lines (like a laser grid) denoting a protected area. The more abjurations you have in the area the more noticeable these indications of magic are.

[Jacob Saltband]

Personally I always thought that the DC for traps assumed that you knew what you were looking for so you could spot the trap (as in the character has some knowledge of traps). Anyone just using perception could notice that theres something odd about the wall/floor/chest/etc, but not actually having any skill/class feature to know about traps, why should they be able to say "Oh look thats a trap" with a high enough percept check?

But as I said thats just me.

Edit: They could say "Oh look theres something odd, it could be a trap".

[Jacob Saltband]

No one else want to chime in and help @Blackbot with his question?

[BigNorseWolf]

Little runes drawn on the wall? A wavey field of force ala a cloaked ship in star trek? The hair on your arm standing up? Ants turning left to avoid the area...

whatever makes the best description

[wraithstrike]

The rules don't always discuss the "how". They just normally tell you what can or can not be done. The "how" in such a way that it makes sense is normally up to the GM or the players to decide.

As an example if you tried to block a giant's attack with a shield your arm and the shield might be broken if giants really existed. I just fluff it as you know how to use the shield so as to not take the full force of the attack.

[BigNorseWolf]

wraithstrike wrote:

The rules don't always discuss the "how". They just normally tell you what can or can not be done. The "how" in such a way that it makes sense is normally up to the GM or the players to decide.

As an example if you tried to block a giant's attack with a shield your arm and the shield might be broken if giants really existed. I just fluff it as you know how to use the shield so as to not take the full force of the attack.

Then you just let it deflect off and direct the force to the side instead of meeting it head on (the same way parrying a punch is a LOT easier than just stopping it cold)

The difficulty in doing this is represented in the giants strength bonus to attack: he doesn't need to go AROUND your defenses he can just go through them.