There is a specific rule about exiting threatened squares while moving that says doing so only provokes once. This rule is often generalized, but no such general rule exists that I can find.
If you were full-attacked while using Snake Style/Snake Fang, each miss would provoke. Remember the "Combat Reflexes" feat ? If you have it and enough dex, you could take each of those provoked AoOs.
However, as you only have 1 swift action from your upcoming turn to burn, you can only make the immediate action follow-up attack on one of your AoOs that hit.
Each attack is a separate event making each missed attack provoke; but movement is a single event that only provokes once.
Consider it from this perspective: you may substitute disarm, trip and sunder maneuvers for attacks; meaning it is potentially possible for an enemy to attack you, attempt to disarm you, and attempt to trip you, in the same round. Each of those are completely separate, except in terms of the bonus and penalties the rolls share.
Another indicative: a character may take a 5ft step between any attack during a full round attack - meaning it is possible to attack, 5ft step, and attack again against the same target. The ability to 5ft step indicates that the individual attacks are separated into different actions.
Finally, you have to keep in mind that even *if* the attacks all were one event and generally only allow one provoke: the specific rule of Snake Fang would override the general rule; and the specific rule of Snake Fang says "when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity" - no restriction.
There is a specific rule about exiting threatened squares while moving that says doing so only provokes once. This rule is often generalized, but no such general rule exists that I can find.
If you were full-attacked while using Snake Style/Snake Fang, each miss would provoke. Remember the "Combat Reflexes" feat ? If you have it and enough dex, you could take each of those provoked AoOs.
However, as you only have 1 swift action from your upcoming turn to burn, you can only make the immediate action follow-up attack on one of your AoOs that hit.
Page 180 of the CRB The genralised statement that you can only make 1 AOO for each opportunity. It further comments that moving through an opponents threatened zone is only one opportunity even if you do it multiple times in the same round.
So the question is, is missing an attack multiples times
1) multiple provocations of the same opportunity, or
2) provocations of different opportunities.With the information I have I can see it been read either way. Have people seen other information that would indicate which would be the correct way to read it ( 1 or 2)
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Each attack that misses you provokes its own AoO. If someone misses you 100 times, they provoke 100 AoOs.
Page 180 of the CRB The genralised statement that you can only make 1 AOO for each opportunity. It further comments that moving through an opponents threatened zone is only one opportunity even if you do it multiple times in the same round.
True. But what is *NOT* said is that a single action can only create one opportunity. This is the (false) generalization that I am referring to.
Example of a single action provoking twice: I spend a standard action to cast a ray spell while in a threatened area. I have spent a single (standard) action, but I potentially provoke two opportunities, one for casting a spell and one for making a ranged attack, even though they are both part of the same standard action.
In the OP's case, even though each attack is part of the same full-round action (assumed to be a full-attack), each miss is a separate provoked opportunity.
Each attack is a separate event making each missed attack provoke; but movement is a single event that only provokes once.
Movement isn't a single event, and it can provoke multiple times.
There is however a rule that says a single individual may only take a single AoO against any particular opponent, not matter how many times they might provoke due to movement, per round.
But if a guy ran by 5 different enemies, each time he moved out of a threatened square he provokes. He is going to get hit 5 times. Not just once.
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When using snake Style with the Snake Fang Feat you gain AOOs when opponents attacks miss you.
Benefit: While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent.You normally only get 1 attack of opportunity against a target for every type of provocation that occurs. So if someone moves in your threatened zone you get 1 AOO even if the target moves throgh several threatened squares.
If your opponent makes several attacks against you in the same round and misses with 3 of them do you get 3 AOO's against him or only 1?Thanks
Correction, "if someone moves through or leaves your threatened zone, you get one AoO; if that target moves through several threatened squares it still only provokes once from it's movement." If it were to leave the threatened area, come back and try to move through or exit again, it would provoke twice.
If your opponent makes several attacks against you in the same round, and misses with 3 of them, you get 3 AoOs(assuming you have combat reflexes and the total dex score to support it).
It states, very specifically, "when an opponent’s attack(an attack that requires an attack roll) misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity(so long as they are within reach)". Simple as that brochacho.
Correction, "if someone moves through or leaves your threatened zone, you get one AoO; if that target moves through several threatened squares it still only provokes once from it's movement." If it were to leave the threatened area, come back and try to move through or exit again, it would provoke twice.
I dont think this is right. We play it like Remy said.
Each attack is a separate event making each missed attack provoke; but movement is a single event that only provokes once.Movement isn't a single event, and it can provoke multiple times.
There is however a rule that says a single individual may only take a single AoO against any particular opponent, not matter how many times they might provoke due to movement, per round.
But if a guy ran by 5 different enemies, each time he moved out of a threatened square he provokes. He is going to get hit 5 times. Not just once.
Yes, I concur. I based my statement on the premise of a single character available to take AOOs.
What is not clear, to me, is what happens when a character takes 2 move actions in his turn. Does the second move action count as part of the first move action or not, for the purpose of AOOs?
Each attack is a separate opportunity, as LK said. Also check out Come and Get Me rage power, which works similarly. If a full attack was only "one opportunity," it wouldn't actually work: "...every attack against the barbarian provokes an attack of opportunity from her, which is resolved prior to resolving each enemy attack."
Snake Fang is the same way, just worded differently (because RPG designers never seem to use identical wording for anything ;-) ). Each attack is a provoking opportunity.
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Correction, "if someone moves through or leaves your threatened zone, you get one AoO; if that target moves through several threatened squares it still only provokes once from it's movement." If it were to leave the threatened area, come back and try to move through or exit again, it would provoke twice.I dont think this is right. We play it like Remy said.
"We Play It like..." means a houserule.
Fair enough, but that doesn't account for Legal RAW ruling. I'm giving him the RAW of it. Whether or not HIS table accepts that function, is up to them.
Could you or him cite that ruling, with a link, so that I can properly change my view and understanding for that rule?
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
The only way to overcome this (that I know of) is by houserules or the mythic version of the feat Combat Reflexes.
Combat Reflexes (Mythic)
Benefit: You can make any number of additional attacks of opportunity per round. As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to, until the start of your next turn, make attacks of opportunity against foes you've already made attacks of opportunity against this round if they provoke attacks of opportunity from you by moving.
However, more in response to the OP's question. Yes, each attack is a separate attack and they each provoke an AoO.
"We Play It like..." means a house rule.
That is not at all what it means. If you want to argue thats not how you interpret the rule, thats fine. I don't think its polite to tell people their interpretation of RAW is house rules cause you don't agree with them. The reason Pazio has a FAQ section is to clear up things that can be read either way.
Remy already quoted you a citation with an appropriate page number. The burden of proof is on you now.
Page 180 of the CRB, The generalized statement that you can only make 1 AOO for each opportunity. It further comments that moving through an opponents threatened zone is only one opportunity even if you do it multiple times in the same round.
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"We Play It like..." means a house rule.That is not at all what it means. If you want to argue thats not how you interpret the rule, thats fine. I don't think its polite to tell people their interpretation of RAW is house rules cause you don't agree with them. The reason Pazio has a FAQ section is to clear up things that can be read either way.
Remy already quoted you a citation with an appropriate page number. The burden of proof is on you now.
Page 180 of the CRB, The generalized statement that you can only make 1 AOO for each opportunity. It further comments that moving through an opponents threatened zone is only one opportunity even if you do it multiple times in the same round.
There is no "burden" of anything. Why would asking you to correct my thinking cause any kind of burden? That's an odd thing to say.
Anyways.
Could you cite the FAQ for this for me? I am assuming you are referencing the FAQ area because there is an answer there. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find anything relating to this...
It seems to potentially be more of a grey spot than I realized. However, if that were the case, Snake Fang would be useless, as each miss that provoked an AoO, wouldn't provoke more than 1 AoO as those too would also be considered the same "opportunity" being as they are happening in the same round.
If you could point out a clear rule though, please do! I would hate to be giving incorrect information out - and if so, it needs to be edited/updated immediately.
An event/action can provoke multiple AoO but usually only one AoO per enemy
With snake fang each attack missed provokes an AoO
Movement however only provokes once PER ENEMY no matter how many threatened squares you move through that belong to said enemies.
If it is not movement through threatened squares...everything that can provoke does
If it is movement through threatened squares...each enemy is only provoked once barring any special ability/feat that says otherwise
"We Play It like..." means a house rule.That is not at all what it means. If you want to argue thats not how you interpret the rule, thats fine. I don't think its polite to tell people their interpretation of RAW is house rules cause you don't agree with them. The reason Pazio has a FAQ section is to clear up things that can be read either way.
Remy already quoted you a citation with an appropriate page number. The burden of proof is on you now.
Page 180 of the CRB, The generalized statement that you can only make 1 AOO for each opportunity. It further comments that moving through an opponents threatened zone is only one opportunity even if you do it multiple times in the same round.There is no "burden" of anything. Why would asking you to correct my thinking cause any kind of burden? That's an odd thing to say.
Anyways.
Could you cite the FAQ for this for me? I am assuming you are referencing the FAQ area because there is an answer there. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find anything relating to this...
It seems to potentially be more of a grey spot than I realized. However, if that were the case, Snake Fang would be useless, as each miss that provoked an AoO, wouldn't provoke more than 1 AoO as those too would also be considered the same "opportunity" being as they are happening in the same round.
If you could point out a clear rule though, please do! I would hate to be giving incorrect information out - and if so, it needs to be edited/updated immediately.
I'm confused as to what you're confused about.
Are you wanting to know if multiple attacks provoke multiple AoO's?
Are you wanting to know if movement can provoke more than one AoO?
There is no "burden" of anything. Why would asking you to correct my thinking cause any kind of burden? That's an odd thing to say.
Its a saying. Let me rephrase. You have been shown (by citation) that movement only provokes once (per enemy), regardless of if it enters your threaten area once or multiple times. If you disagree you need to show the rules that support your argument.
Could you cite the FAQ for this for me? I am assuming you are referencing the FAQ area because there is an answer there. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find anything relating to this...
There might not be a FAQ for this. I did not reference one. You are assuming, you know what happens when you assume...
It seems to potentially be more of a grey spot than I realized. However, if that were the case, Snake Fang would be useless, as each miss that provoked an AoO, wouldn't provoke more than 1 AoO as those too would also be considered the same "opportunity" being as they are happening in the same round.
Nothing I was talking about was in reference to being attacked. My comments were related to movement, and I clearly stated that in my post.
The problem I see is that a lot of people seem to be using the terms "Provoke" and "Opportunity" as the same thing. The wording of the rule seems to say they aren't.
Thus in the example Movement is the opportnity. Each square you move through a threatned square of a particular creature is a "provoke". A creature can only get to use 1 "provoke" for each opportunity involving it.
Now the rules are fairly clear that "Movement" during a turn is a single opportunity.
The question which is unclear is what are other definitions of an "Opportunity".
Personally I suspect "Missing Attacks", "Tripping" "Grappling" are examples of "opportunities" and thus if you attempt to trip some one 3 times in the same action without Improved Trip thye would only get 1 AOO despite there been 3 "Provokes".
In the same way Snake Fang If Opponent "A" attacks and misses you twice in a turn you get 1 AOO despite 2 "Provokes". But if opponent "B" attacks you in the same round and misses this is separate target for you to make an AOO on due to missing an attack on you.
But despite my belief the simple truth is that there currently isn't the required evidence for any one to make a reasonable statement of certaintiy as to what the designers meant an "opportunity" to be. Which means we go to the default "the quoted example is the only accepted example".
you are incorrect. when dealing with AoO's, anything that provokes one can do so infinite times if the "provoke" is constantly repeated.
there EXCEPTION to this is that movement out of a threatened square SPECIFICALLY cannot provoke more than once. everything else that provokes, does so without restriction.
so in your above example, if you attempt to trip someone without the improved trip feat with each of your attacks (assuming 3 for a BaB above 11) in a full round action, you would provoke 3 seperate AoO's.
this has to do with WHEN each provocation occurs. because you resolve an AoO "immediately" (and technically just before) the trigger, making 3 trip attempts has 3 triggers. each trigger has an AoO.
this is true for moving out of threatened squares as well, but in this case the rules SPECIFICALLY state that only the first trigger has an AoO.
Each attack is a separate event making each missed attack provoke; but movement is a single event that only provokes once.Movement isn't a single event, and it can provoke multiple times.
There is however a rule that says a single individual may only take a single AoO against any particular opponent, not matter how many times they might provoke due to movement, per round.
But if a guy ran by 5 different enemies, each time he moved out of a threatened square he provokes. He is going to get hit 5 times. Not just once.
Yes, I concur. I based my statement on the premise of a single character available to take AOOs.
What is not clear, to me, is what happens when a character takes 2 move actions in his turn. Does the second move action count as part of the first move action or not, for the purpose of AOOs?
Technically, every single square you move out of provokes.
However. And this is a big however...
Each combatant is only permitted to take one AoO against any particular target caused by movement in a round. This is a special exception that is laid out in the CRB to how many AoOs people can take normally. Lets see...
Aha, got it, the CRB quote
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
So it doesn't matter how many times you move out of a square threatened by the same opponent, whether it is only once, or twice, or a dozen times... you could spend a double move as a 20th level monk and run circles around him... he only gets 1 AoO from your movement per round.
Again, this is a special exception about provoking AoOs with regard to only movement itself. If you do 5 different things that all provoke, he could potentially take 5 AoOs. But only one of them can ever be from movement(per round).
Is each attack a seprate opportunity? Yes
Is each move out of a threatened square a desperate opportunity? Yes
Does the rule say that you can make more that one AoO for each opportunity? Yes
except for then they are made from movement