Legal Character Checking and Tracking Inventory


GM Discussion

1/5

One of the responsibilities of the GM according the society play is validating that the player has all the sources for his character – either hard copies or water marked PDFs. I'm going to assume that we don't have to validate that a water marked PDF is actually that player – cause someone's email can be gobo@gmail.com and his actual name is Paul.

How long does this normally take and do you require them to have a handy sheet that has feat, spell, trait, item, etc and its source and page # for validation or do you normally just glance at it and say – OK looks good? Given the number of feats, items, traits, etc in this game I'm doubtful that anyone could know them all – maybe that would make a good trivial game?

I'm assuming the GM is not required to keep track of the exact number of charges a character uses from say a wand of cure light wounds, basically we go on the honor system for players or is this a mistake and I should track every arrow expanded and charge used?

One last question about item tracking – say I'm an archer firing silver arrows. I shoot 10 silver arrows then later during the adventure we find a catch of 20 silver arrows. Can I replace the 10 silver arrows I used with the found arrows or do I mark down at the end of the game that I used 10 silver arrows?

Silver Crusade 4/5

CommanderG wrote:

One of the responsibilities of the GM according the society play is validating that the player has all the sources for his character – either hard copies or water marked PDFs. I'm going to assume that we don't have to validate that a water marked PDF is actually that player – cause someone's email can be gobo@gmail.com and his actual name is Paul.

How long does this normally take and do you require them to have a handy sheet that has feat, spell, trait, item, etc and its source and page # for validation or do you normally just glance at it and say – OK looks good? Given the number of feats, items, traits, etc in this game I'm doubtful that anyone could know them all – maybe that would make a good trivial game?

I'm assuming the GM is not required to keep track of the exact number of charges a character uses from say a wand of cure light wounds, basically we go on the honor system for players or is this a mistake and I should track every arrow expanded and charge used?

One last question about item tracking – say I'm an archer firing silver arrows. I shoot 10 silver arrows then later during the adventure we find a catch of 20 silver arrows. Can I replace the 10 silver arrows I used with the found arrows or do I mark down at the end of the game that I used 10 silver arrows?

1) If I am checking out a character, due to either being asked or because there was something odd that occurred during a game, I will commonly ask the player the source of the feat, trait, item, ect. in question and then ask them to show me the legal source it was obtained from. If they can not show me the source for where they got the feat or whatever then they are not allowed to use it during that session.

2) GM's are not required to keep track of player expended resources. That is the players responsibility and the player should be honest about it.

3) The player should mark off on their character sheet that they expended 10 Silver Arrows. If the player so chooses, after finding the 20 Silver Arrows in session, he can use those for free during the session but can not restock his characters starting supply from them after the session has ended. The player would need to buy another bundle of Silver Arrows in order to restock his characters supply at the conclusion of the current session, just prior to the start of his next session (once they are at the table with the GM), or during his next session.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

They should be ticking off the charges / ammo on a tracking sheet as they use them. If the player is not picking up a pen everytime they fire an arrow or use a wand, either remind them or ask to see their tracking sheet.

Book resources, I usually just spot check, and I have a few things that will trigger it.

Certain obscure spells, or odd prestige classes will cause me to ask for a check. (Snowball, Bloodmoney, the gas mask from Rasputin must die...)

Grand Lodge 5/5

Paizo doesn't expect GMs to police players about owning the sourcebooks. It is the player's responsibility to comply with the rules.

However, a GM does have the right to deny a player the use of anything that requires a legal source which the player does not have.

Players using ANYTHING outside the core rules are supposed to tell the GM before the game begins so the GM has a chance to review anything they are unfamiliar with. It is in the rules. Page 5 I think, maybe 6 in the PFS Guide. This is a change in season 5. Before it was just a suggestion. Now it is a requirement.

Yup, page 5 under Additional Resources. The last sentence:

Quote:

You must inform the Game Master that

you plan to use Additional Resource material before play
begins, so he has a chance to familiarize himself with the
new material.

Scarab Sages 4/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Don Walker wrote:

Paizo doesn't expect GMs to police players about owning the sourcebooks. It is the player's responsibility to comply with the rules.

However, a GM does have the right to deny a player the use of anything that requires a legal source which the player does not have.

Players using ANYTHING outside the core rules are supposed to tell the GM before the game begins so the GM has a chance to review anything they are unfamiliar with. It is in the rules. Page 5 I think, maybe 6 in the PFS Guide. This is a change in season 5. Before it was just a suggestion. Now it is a requirement.

Yup, page 5 under Additional Resources. The last sentence:

Quote:

You must inform the Game Master that

you plan to use Additional Resource material before play
begins, so he has a chance to familiarize himself with the
new material.

Wow. that's new to me. And a bit obnoxious. Do I just need to say "I'm using additional resources", or be explicit about what things I'm using? Because I could bury a GM in stuff. Just think about the obvious items most players use:

All Traits
Alchemical items from Ultimate Equipment
Spells from multiple books
All of your Archetypes
Prestige Classes
Any Vanities
Ioun Stone Synergies
Feats
.....

(If I'm nice, and have lots of bored-time at work, I could type this up into an organized spreadsheet, just like with my item tracking - but at some point, this turns into "Living Accounting")

I have audited one character in PFS so far, after a player got a couple of core rules wrong - so I walked through his character build with him during a break. Didn't find anything (additional) wrong, and had a healthy discussion where I learned about some neat things and he got some ideas for future feats. But I don't have the time (or desire) to do that for six characters every game.

Grand Lodge 5/5

The "must inform" is in there to give the GM some authority when dealing with Additional Resource PCs. It is up to the GM how strict they want to be. When it was just a "suggestion", it had no real weight for the GM to use.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

I do ask ahead of the game if there is anything 'unusual' about a character that I should be better aware off.

This helps the flow as I'm not suddenly stumped during the game about an unusual or possibly questionable combination.

I also tend to tell the GM if I bring a character with something unusual. It can be as simple as my wizard using threatening illusion and ghost sound (combined with a trait to actually allow it to cast at will).

I'm pretty laid back most of the times and I do remind people that additional resources are needed. At least once at a convention when it just looked too good and I had to go into audit mode. I tried to sort out the character as well as possible - but it wasn't pretty.

It leaves bad blood if you strip half the wealth off someones character - no matter how diplomatic you try to do it, avoiding the c-word and rather call it a mistake.

Scarab Sages 5/5

FLite wrote:

They should be ticking off the charges / ammo on a tracking sheet as they use them. If the player is not picking up a pen everytime they fire an arrow or use a wand, either remind them or ask to see their tracking sheet.

Unless the ammo is magical or worth more than 25gp they don't technically have to put ammo on their item tracking sheet - though they should track ammo used somehow.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Don Walker wrote:


Yup, page 5 under Additional Resources. The last sentence:

Quote:

You must inform the Game Master that

you plan to use Additional Resource material before play
begins, so he has a chance to familiarize himself with the
new material.

Never noticed that.

Its rather silly. Almost everybody up here falls into 1 of 3 categories

1) playing a pregen
2) so new to PFS that they likely have no idea what the Additional Resources document is.
3) are playing with lots of stuff beyond the Core Assumptions

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dhjika wrote:
FLite wrote:

They should be ticking off the charges / ammo on a tracking sheet as they use them. If the player is not picking up a pen everytime they fire an arrow or use a wand, either remind them or ask to see their tracking sheet.

Unless the ammo is magical or worth more than 25gp they don't technically have to put ammo on their item tracking sheet - though they should track ammo used somehow.

Or just spend 200 gold, buy 2,000 cold iron arrows, and never need to track ammo again.

1/5

Hey speaking on the topic of silver arrows -

Are the 20 silver arrows for 3 gp or 20 silver arrows are 41 gp? The debate is over the missing keyword per missile in the book, which looks just like a type-o/omission to me.

I'm assuming 41 gp since ammunition typically refers to a single arrow/bolt/etc.

Otherwise it would get really strange to me, since you would draw ammunition for your bow - shoot the arrow, it hits and then all your arrows disappear :) Since per rules (core pg 141) ammunition that strikes a target is destroyed and if ammunition without the keyword "per missile" means the bundle of arrows then archers are in trouble.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

CommanderG wrote:
Are the 20 silver arrows for 3 gp or 20 silver arrows are 41 gp?

It's 2gp per item (missile) so 41gp for 20 arrows; it's clarified in Ultimate Equipment.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Or just spend 200 gold, buy 2,000 cold iron arrows, and never need to track ammo again.

Would that weigh about 300 pounds?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Lakesidefantasy wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Or just spend 200 gold, buy 2,000 cold iron arrows, and never need to track ammo again.
Would that weigh about 300 pounds?

Yes, but you can just take what you'd need for an adventure and leave the rest at home.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
you can just take what you'd need for an adventure and leave the rest at home.

How do you know when you run out of what you have taken on the adventure?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Paz wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
you can just take what you'd need for an adventure and leave the rest at home.
How do you know when you run out of what you have taken on the adventure?

You mark down ahead of time how many you're bringing at the start of a scenario.


Jeff Merola wrote:
Paz wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
you can just take what you'd need for an adventure and leave the rest at home.
How do you know when you run out of what you have taken on the adventure?
You mark down ahead of time how many you're bringing at the start of a scenario.

Which means you're tracking ammo.

Which officially you always have to do anyway.

5/5 5/55/55/5

thejeff wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Paz wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
you can just take what you'd need for an adventure and leave the rest at home.
How do you know when you run out of what you have taken on the adventure?
You mark down ahead of time how many you're bringing at the start of a scenario.

Which means you're tracking ammo.

Which officially you always have to do anyway.

But you're no longer tracking ammo purchases, which is incredibly annoying. There's no paperwork for "Yeah, i'm gonna snag 200 arrows to take with me out of the locker"

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