Captain America: The Winter Soldier


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Well, since this the thread is OT already, just want to say that I am constantly amazed at some of the Marvel crossover/storylines.

As much as I love the Amazing Spiderman and I love Conan the barbarian and friends, I was blown away one day in my local Flags and found out that marvel had actually done a Spiderman/Red Sonja series.

So bring on Captain America and GJ Joe cross-over


Well, Spider-man is officially in the same universe as the Transformers... so honestly, why not?

Shadow Lodge

Marvel has ruled that the Spidey-Transformers story took place on Earth-some other number than 616. IE, the Transformers don't exist in the mainstream Marvel continuity.

Sovereign Court

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Spoilering Civil War is an oxymoron: you can spoil something that's rotten
Civil...war...! There's a clue in the name!

That too! lol

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Civil War was a great concept that got dumber the longer it went on. It started with a bang - literally. A tragic accident causes the US Congress to sit up and write a bill addressing the massive number of metahumans in the country. The Superhuman Registration Act is passed, and every meta in America needs to register. Tony Stark ends up the spokesman for the pro-registration side; Steve Rogers, naturally, ends up being the anti-reg side.

It was a wonderful set up, one that could have had a very intelligent debate in its pages. It could have shown the positive and negative sides to both arguments, showing both sides perhaps going too far in the name of what they believe, and having the supervillains show up in the end to cause mass chaos, as the superheroes have been too busy fighting each other to deal with the criminals.

Instead, one side gets handed the villain card early on, and never really gets to make their points. Instead, they start doing more and more reprehensible things in the name of "public safety." In the end, it's just an excuse to have their big named costumed characters beat each other up.

I mourn for the series that Civil War could have been.


Kthulhu wrote:
Marvel has ruled that the Spidey-Transformers story took place on Earth-some other number than 616. IE, the Transformers don't exist in the mainstream Marvel continuity.

Which story? The one where he webs up Megatron (during the symbiote days IIRC), or the Avengers vs. Transformers story?


I don't think they have introduced enough superheroes for a registry to really make sense. In fact, not sure if they will ever get to that day, what with not having the mutants as part of the MCU

Silver Crusade

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I remember a brilliant Captain America/Conan crossover!

Conan got shunted into Cap's reality (modern day 616) and survived he best he could. He became a pimp! Dressed the part, even had a cheetah on a leash!

When he fought Cap, he was surprised by a shield being thrown! Still, he wounded Cap enough that if they continued Cap would die, so Conan spared the brave and skilful Cap.

Is was better than I make it sound. : )

Sovereign Court

Lathiira wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Marvel has ruled that the Spidey-Transformers story took place on Earth-some other number than 616. IE, the Transformers don't exist in the mainstream Marvel continuity.
Which story? The one where he webs up Megatron (during the symbiote days IIRC), or the Avengers vs. Transformers story?

I remember loving his webbing of Megatron... alas, hinsight considered... yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I remember a brilliant Captain America/Conan crossover!

Conan got shunted into Cap's reality (modern day 616) and survived he best he could. He became a pimp! Dressed the part, even had a cheetah on a leash!

When he fought Cap, he was surprised by a shield being thrown! Still, he wounded Cap enough that if they continued Cap would die, so Conan spared the brave and skilful Cap.

Is was better than I make it sound. : )

LOL! "I shall be... A PIMP!" man, that must have been written in the 70's! lol


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I remember a brilliant Captain America/Conan crossover!

Conan got shunted into Cap's reality (modern day 616) and survived he best he could. He became a pimp! Dressed the part, even had a cheetah on a leash!

When he fought Cap, he was surprised by a shield being thrown! Still, he wounded Cap enough that if they continued Cap would die, so Conan spared the brave and skilful Cap.

Is was better than I make it sound. :

I remember that one. It was one of the better What Ifs.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I remember a brilliant Captain America/Conan crossover!

Conan got shunted into Cap's reality (modern day 616) and survived he best he could. He became a pimp! Dressed the part, even had a cheetah on a leash!

When he fought Cap, he was surprised by a shield being thrown! Still, he wounded Cap enough that if they continued Cap would die, so Conan spared the brave and skilful Cap.

Is was better than I make it sound. : )

Here is a more realistic course of events, I think ;)


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Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I remember a brilliant Captain America/Conan crossover!

Conan got shunted into Cap's reality (modern day 616) and survived he best he could. He became a pimp! Dressed the part, even had a cheetah on a leash!

When he fought Cap, he was surprised by a shield being thrown! Still, he wounded Cap enough that if they continued Cap would die, so Conan spared the brave and skilful Cap.

Is was better than I make it sound. : )

That's the problem when you're fighting someone who's perfectly willing to kill and wielding a bladed weapon if you don't completely outclass them ... and while Cap is faster, stronger, possesses equal fighting spirit and is more skilled in martial arts than Conan, he's not so much better in any of those categories that he can try and subdue him without causing permanent harm all while the Cimmerian is attempting to cleave him in twain. I daresay that in bladed combat, you'd have to expect a result favoring Conan far more often than not—on the order of, say, seven or eight times out of ten. Hand-to-hand, though, with all weapons set aside, Cap drops Conan nine times out of ten, if not more. (Batman does the same almost as often.)

Not sure I remember that story, but ... it's something Conan would actually do, in my opinion, in that he'd never intentionally harm a woman that didn't deserve it, would see nothing wrong with prostitution so long as the girls were treated respectfully and well paid for their services, and would guard them with his life, feeling that they were under his protection. As a matter of fact, I shudder to say ...

... Conan would be a very good pimp, in most senses of the word.


Jaelithe wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I remember a brilliant Captain America/Conan crossover!

Conan got shunted into Cap's reality (modern day 616) and survived he best he could. He became a pimp! Dressed the part, even had a cheetah on a leash!

When he fought Cap, he was surprised by a shield being thrown! Still, he wounded Cap enough that if they continued Cap would die, so Conan spared the brave and skilful Cap.

Is was better than I make it sound. : )

That's the problem when you're fighting someone who's perfectly willing to kill and wielding a bladed weapon if you don't completely outclass them ... and while Cap is faster, stronger, possesses equal fighting spirit and is more skilled in martial arts than Conan, he's not so much better in any of those categories that he can try and subdue him without causing permanent harm all while the Cimmerian is attempting to cleave him in twain. I daresay that in bladed combat, you'd have to expect a result favoring Conan far more often than not—on the order of, say, seven or eight times out of ten. Hand-to-hand, though, with all weapons set aside, Cap drops Conan nine times out of ten, if not more. (Batman does the same almost as often.)

Not sure I remember that story, but ... it's something Conan would actually do, in my opinion, in that he'd never intentionally harm a woman that didn't deserve it, would see nothing wrong with prostitution so long as the girls were treated respectfully and well paid for their services, and would guard them with his life, feeling that they were under his protection. As a matter of fact, I shudder to say ...

... Conan would be a very good pimp, in most senses of the word.

It was interesting, mostly in the relationship between the two. Conan assumes that this strange new world he's come to works just like he's used to and that Cap is just head thug for whoever's in charge, like the guards in the world he's used to. So he moves into the local criminal scene and takes over a gang, like he did many times in Hyboria. (I'm not sure he actually became a pimp, though he did dress in full hollywood pimp style to impress a girl. Which didn't work of course.)

After their last confrontation, it ends with Conan wondering if Cap was right and IIRC considering his offer to join the Avengers. That's a What If? sequel I'd have loved to see.

Silver Crusade

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There was also a scene in it where Conan was in a gym and a guy even bigger than Conan got in his face. Conan showed he was stronger and said something like, 'Strength gained from lifting lumps of iron are no match for strength gained from fighting against death!'

: )


MMCJawa wrote:
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.

There was a so awful its amazing 1994 fantastic four movie done at one point on a 10,000 dollar budget just to keep the rights. There's no reason they wouldn't do that with the different spiderman/x men movies.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.

There was a so awful its amazing 1994 fantastic four movie done at one point on a 10,000 dollar budget just to keep the rights. There's no reason they wouldn't do that with the different spiderman/x men movies.

ow! that trailer was so painfully cheesy


Black Dougal wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.

There was a so awful its amazing 1994 fantastic four movie done at one point on a 10,000 dollar budget just to keep the rights. There's no reason they wouldn't do that with the different spiderman/x men movies.

ow! that trailer was so painfully cheesy

The whole movie is after it.

Its like hot mustard.. it hurts.. but you can't stop...

Sovereign Court

my eyes hurt


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Black Dougal wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.

There was a so awful its amazing 1994 fantastic four movie done at one point on a 10,000 dollar budget just to keep the rights. There's no reason they wouldn't do that with the different spiderman/x men movies.

ow! that trailer was so painfully cheesy

The whole movie is after it.

Its like hot mustard.. it hurts.. but you can't stop...

They did that on a 10,000 budget...I'm impressed.

Of course, that's enough for what...one reel of film...and...well...that's about it?

They even had Dr. Doom look somewhat like Dr. Doom.

I have to say, the trailer used awesome music though, kudos to others who recognized it.

It's one of Horner's pieces, but to a less popular movie than others he composed, it's to Battle Beyond the Stars and reused in Space Raiders.


That movie was the one that was so bad that the only placed it was shown in cinemas in Europe was a tiny cinema in northern Italy. See, they had a contract that said it had to be internationally shown. After one showing, that was apparently satisfied. IIRC.

Sovereign Court

Nice. LOL


BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.

There was a so awful its amazing 1994 fantastic four movie done at one point on a 10,000 dollar budget just to keep the rights. There's no reason they wouldn't do that with the different spiderman/x men movies.

I don't think they can pull a fast one like that nowadays. For starters, I believe most of the contracts they have do have a clause that says "X studio can't release a movie that would hurt the comics brand". Marvel in the past hasn't really pulled that trigger; Although there have been some crappy movies, they have all been major theatrical releases and not really so bad as to hurt the Marvel brand. There's also a good faith clause built in there. I think if someone tried to pull something off like that nowadays, Disney's legal team would annihilate them. Something like that is going on right now with Hasbro trying to reclaim the movie rights to DnD.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Spoilering Civil War is an oxymoron: you can spoil something that's rotten
Civil...war...! There's a clue in the name!
That too! lol

Well, yes - I tend to have 'masochistic-in-hindsight' comic reading trends. I understand it's quality is less than stellar, but seeing as I've bought the collected edition, I might as well read it! I was referring to a clone comment, not an overall "theme reveal": I know there's a bit of inter-hero conflict in the series.

Hopefully, I'll forget it before I read the book :-)

(Insert joke here about hopefully forgetting the book after I've read it!)

Silver Crusade

I'm playing in the Civil War campaign in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, but the DM slightly altered the timing of the odd plot point, and that was enough to have the behaviour of the pro-registration side make sense and not be, well, evil!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm tired of Marvel and DC superheroes.

I want live-action Hanna-Barbara superhero blockbusters!

Space Ghost! Captain Caveman! The Herculoids!


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
I'm playing in the Civil War campaign in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, but the DM slightly altered the timing of the odd plot point, and that was enough to have the behaviour of the pro-registration side make sense and not be, well, evil!

I think it's funny that the side which wanted to uphold the basic tenets of Democracy and the powerful to be held accountable for their actions is considered "evil".


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I want to see Cap pitch for White Castle hamburgers.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
I'm playing in the Civil War campaign in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, but the DM slightly altered the timing of the odd plot point, and that was enough to have the behaviour of the pro-registration side make sense and not be, well, evil!
I think it's funny that the side which wanted to uphold the basic tenets of Democracy and the powerful to be held accountable for their actions is considered "evil".

It wasn't their philosophy which was evil, but the actions they chose to take in pursuit of that goal.

In theory, each position had merits, and if the story had been executed properly then the whole story would have divided opinion, as intended. But in practice the writers made one side 'good' and the other 'evil', which not only subverted their own purpose in writing that storyline, but also really, really bothered comics fans who saw their favourite characters suddenly act like villains.

TLDR:, it wasn't the idea that was bad, but the execution.


I agree the Civil War was poorly executed, Mark Millar made some missteps in the main title, but it was actually the tie in series, particularly anything that JMS was allowed to pour his own political biases in to that really mucked things up. It's pretty awful when Mark Millar is, arguably, the most even handed writer on a particular issue.

Funny note: after Civil War they put out a What If comic where one of the scenarios had Cap decide to just talk things out and compromise with Stark rather than fighting. Predictably the whole Registration thing went smoothly and everyone was happy.

Anyway, if tried to pull off Civil War in the movie universe it would make zero sense to have Iron Man and Cap at odds as they were in the comics. They've already shown Tony being openly antagonistic toward the government in IM2 and with the very recent reveals from Captain America 2 it would make even less sense for any Avenger (other than, perhaps, Hawkeye) to be on that side of the government.

They'd have to basically rewrite it in to the government becoming paranoid and coming after the Avengers after the events of Cap 2 and the Avengers fighting back.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GreyWolfLord wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Black Dougal wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.

There was a so awful its amazing 1994 fantastic four movie done at one point on a 10,000 dollar budget just to keep the rights. There's no reason they wouldn't do that with the different spiderman/x men movies.

ow! that trailer was so painfully cheesy

The whole movie is after it.

Its like hot mustard.. it hurts.. but you can't stop...

They did that on a 10,000 budget...I'm impressed.

Of course, that's enough for what...one reel of film...and...well...that's about it?

They even had Dr. Doom look somewhat like Dr. Doom.

I have to say, the trailer used awesome music though, kudos to others who recognized it.

It's one of Horner's pieces, but to a less popular movie than others he composed, it's to Battle Beyond the Stars and reused in Space Raiders.

That movie was revisited in a way in the Third (Netflix only) season of "Arrested Development".

Shadow Lodge

Anyone else consider the Superhero Registration Act to be a stealth Mutant Registration Act?

Next come the Sentinels!


Just saw the movie (well not just now, earlier today) and thought it was really good. One silly little thing, I'm willing to hand wave the physics of jet pack wings, but how does Cap know what his shield will bounce off of or stick into?


Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Just saw the movie (well not just now, earlier today) and thought it was really good. One silly little thing, I'm willing to hand wave the physics of jet pack wings, but how does Cap know what his shield will bounce off of or stick into?

He's just that good.


Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Just saw the movie (well not just now, earlier today) and thought it was really good. One silly little thing, I'm willing to hand wave the physics of jet pack wings, but how does Cap know what his shield will bounce off of or stick into?
He's just that good.

It's all in the spin.


thejeff wrote:
Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Just saw the movie (well not just now, earlier today) and thought it was really good. One silly little thing, I'm willing to hand wave the physics of jet pack wings, but how does Cap know what his shield will bounce off of or stick into?
He's just that good.
It's all in the spin.

Because he's Cap. :)


At one point (back in the 60s?) he controlled it with magnets. Probably in an attempt to handle just such questions. Of course, other than a few demonstration panels, it did exactly the same kinds of things as it did before the magnets and after they gave up on the idea.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Kthulhu wrote:

Anyone else consider the Superhero Registration Act to be a stealth Mutant Registration Act?

Next come the Sentinels!

The X-Men (for the most part) saw it that way.


Kthulhu wrote:

Anyone else consider the Superhero Registration Act to be a stealth Mutant Registration Act?

Next come the Sentinels!

Actually there's a side comic (Iron Man/Captain America: Casualties of War) that took place during Civil War written by Christos Gage where Cap and Tony actually meet up to talk. In this comic Tony explains that when he was secretary of defense HE SAW the plans for mass producing the Sentinels in response to exactly the sort of thing that set off the Civil War. He explains that at that point the gov't would have been coming after ALL OF THEM not just the mutants and something needed to be done so that wouldn't happen. The superhuman registration act was the compromise.

After I read this story it pretty much cemented my dislike for the main Civil War Series. Not because this one shot was bad, but because this is the sort of thing that NEEDED to be in the main series. Because Tony Start wasn't acting like Tony Stark in the main series. He was acting like a huge jerk who'd had no history with the people he was going after.

Yeah I really, REALLY didn't like Civil War.

Dark Archive

ShinHakkaider wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:

Anyone else consider the Superhero Registration Act to be a stealth Mutant Registration Act?

Next come the Sentinels!

Actually there's a side comic (Iron Man/Captain America: Casualties of War) that took place during Civil War written by Christos Gage where Cap and Tony actually meet up to talk. In this comic Tony explains that when he was secretary of defense HE SAW the plans for mass producing the Sentinels in response to exactly the sort of thing that set off the Civil War. He explains that at that point the gov't would have been coming after ALL OF THEM not just the mutants and something needed to be done so that wouldn't happen. The superhuman registration act was the compromise.

After I read this story it pretty much cemented my dislike for the main Civil War Series. Not because this one shot was bad, but because this is the sort of thing that NEEDED to be in the main series. Because Tony Start wasn't acting like Tony Stark in the main series. He was acting like a huge jerk who'd had no history with the people he was going after.

Yeah I really, REALLY didn't like Civil War.

I get the impresion the Marvel writers at the time dident like it either since they seemed to go out of there way to have it fall apart and have Norman Osborn take over so quickly.


thejeff wrote:
At one point (back in the 60s?) he controlled it with magnets. Probably in an attempt to handle just such questions. Of course, other than a few demonstration panels, it did exactly the same kinds of things as it did before the magnets and after they gave up on the idea.

At one point Cap was talking to someone who had just seen him do the multiple-hit-ricochet-back trick and Cap explained. "I used to use magnets, but it threw off the balance and I was stuck standing there waiting for it to come back. So I gave up on them and learned to do it the other way." To paraphrase his answer.


Kevin Mack wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:

Anyone else consider the Superhero Registration Act to be a stealth Mutant Registration Act?

Next come the Sentinels!

Actually there's a side comic (Iron Man/Captain America: Casualties of War) that took place during Civil War written by Christos Gage where Cap and Tony actually meet up to talk. In this comic Tony explains that when he was secretary of defense HE SAW the plans for mass producing the Sentinels in response to exactly the sort of thing that set off the Civil War. He explains that at that point the gov't would have been coming after ALL OF THEM not just the mutants and something needed to be done so that wouldn't happen. The superhuman registration act was the compromise.

After I read this story it pretty much cemented my dislike for the main Civil War Series. Not because this one shot was bad, but because this is the sort of thing that NEEDED to be in the main series. Because Tony Start wasn't acting like Tony Stark in the main series. He was acting like a huge jerk who'd had no history with the people he was going after.

Yeah I really, REALLY didn't like Civil War.

I get the impresion the Marvel writers at the time dident like it either since they seemed to go out of there way to have it fall apart and have Norman Osborn take over so quickly.

Yup. Most of the writers at Marvel had no idea how to write a story without villains, so they wrote one side as villains rather than work a little harder to create something different and interesting.

The only writer at Marvel who should have been trusted to write Civil War was Ed Brubaker, his Death of Captain America storyline coming out of Civil War was the one positive of the whole mess and portrayed both sides of the Registration coin as actual fully thought out characters, while making use of the idea that these people were good friends and trusted heroes who found themselves at odds over an ideological split.


Black Dougal wrote:

Well, since this the thread is OT already, just want to say that I am constantly amazed at some of the Marvel crossover/storylines.

As much as I love the Amazing Spiderman and I love Conan the barbarian and friends, I was blown away one day in my local Flags and found out that marvel had actually done a Spiderman/Red Sonja series.

So bring on Captain America and GJ Joe cross-over

The single best Cross company Crossover - JLA/Avengers - Busiek and Perez - both who spent years on both teams over their careers.


Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
I'm playing in the Civil War campaign in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, but the DM slightly altered the timing of the odd plot point, and that was enough to have the behaviour of the pro-registration side make sense and not be, well, evil!
I think it's funny that the side which wanted to uphold the basic tenets of Democracy and the powerful to be held accountable for their actions is considered "evil".

It's that whole human registration thing - feels too much like WWII.


Lord Mhoram wrote:
Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
I'm playing in the Civil War campaign in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, but the DM slightly altered the timing of the odd plot point, and that was enough to have the behaviour of the pro-registration side make sense and not be, well, evil!
I think it's funny that the side which wanted to uphold the basic tenets of Democracy and the powerful to be held accountable for their actions is considered "evil".
It's that whole human registration thing - feels too much like WWII.

Like registering people to drive a motorized vehicle, practice medicine, work in law enforcement, own a gun, ect?

Sovereign Court

registering your identity under the Highway Act in order to drive a vehicle means you are signing up by the rules of enforcement of the Highway Act, and you are accepting the punishments for what breaks the said rules; technically you are not forced to register, and some have claimed "free man" status and drive without license / registration / insurance. Those people choose not to play by the rules, and thus, if they cause harm in an accident, do not have any financial or legal protection whatsoever. This may mean they will get sued for millions if they accidentally kill someone. Of course, they can also claim the courts have no jurisdiction over them because they are "free men", but the legal system has a way to catch up with most of these guys, whether these guys are right or not (i'm no expert, but whatever is on paper, The Constitution, etc., truth is if you're alone vs. the society, your chances are not good)

now, asking people to register based on race, etc. yes, this sound like WWII and the Act / Law that would be required to fuel such an effort would be tyrannical at best

there are registries for people (a quick google search with the words "police registry" will reveal a few local registries in your area), but a registry of superheroes, if it would have been done realistically, would have fallen under something like this (which I just found with a quick google search)

Potentially Dangerous Persons – Standard Operating Procedures

1.0 Introduction

These procedures provide guidance on the identification, referral and
management processes for Potentially Dangerous Persons (PDP’s).

1.1 The definition of a PDP is as follows: “a PDP is a person who has
not been convicted of, or cautioned for any offence placing them into one
of the three MAPPA categories, but whose behaviour gives reasonable
grounds for believing that there is present a likelihood of them
committing an offence or offences that will cause serious harm.”

ETC.

(the above is real... I just copy pasted the intro.. lol)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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It is one of the paradoxes I've always liked in the concept of Marvel America, how one balances the potential of super powered chaos with personal freedoms.

The resentment/mistrust for (most!) powered people makes sense. I explained it to a friend who was a DeVry graduate and DC fan thus.

"You've spent what, 4 years in college getting your degree? How many late nights working? How much student loan debt? How long have you put off your family for this? And now you're competing in a field against people who are just as motivated as you.

"Now you're in an interview against Doug Ramsey. He's younger than you, hasn't had all the schooling, but luck in the genetic lottery means he's *at least* as good as you at computers, if not better. Plus, they can pay him less because he doesn't have all that college debt to deal with."

"That's a passive mutation. Now imagine a world where there are active mutations. People get scammed all the time. Add in telepathic nudges. Did your wife really just have a fling, or did she encounter someone with mind control. School shootings? Imagine if someone like Havok or Black Cannary went postal? What is a cop going to do, really, if Spiderman says frak it, and robs a bank? Marvel normals may love their Avengers, but it doesn't stop them from fearing them."

In the movie verse, think of the respect and fear Natasha has for Bruce. She may admire Bruce Banner, but she's rightfully terrified of the Hulk. To me that's what Civil War should have been about, and it also sums up Steve's fears of what SHIELD was doing. Don't forget, Nick was all for Insight, until he became suspicious of what it could do.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lathiira wrote:
thejeff wrote:
At one point (back in the 60s?) he controlled it with magnets. Probably in an attempt to handle just such questions. Of course, other than a few demonstration panels, it did exactly the same kinds of things as it did before the magnets and after they gave up on the idea.
At one point Cap was talking to someone who had just seen him do the multiple-hit-ricochet-back trick and Cap explained. "I used to use magnets, but it threw off the balance and I was stuck standing there waiting for it to come back. So I gave up on them and learned to do it the other way." To paraphrase his answer.

I believe the super serum gave him the ability to telekinetically control round mettalic objects. I've noticed how in some comics/cartoons he can do shield stunts with trashcan lids and hubcaps when someone takes his shield away.


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VM mercenario wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
thejeff wrote:
At one point (back in the 60s?) he controlled it with magnets. Probably in an attempt to handle just such questions. Of course, other than a few demonstration panels, it did exactly the same kinds of things as it did before the magnets and after they gave up on the idea.
At one point Cap was talking to someone who had just seen him do the multiple-hit-ricochet-back trick and Cap explained. "I used to use magnets, but it threw off the balance and I was stuck standing there waiting for it to come back. So I gave up on them and learned to do it the other way." To paraphrase his answer.
I believe the super serum gave him the ability to telekinetically control round mettalic objects. I've noticed how in some comics/cartoons he can do shield stunts with trashcan lids and hubcaps when someone takes his shield away.

Good thing he's not an assassin then. The things he could do with coasters would be downright terrifying. Or that adamantium hockey puck Bishop once used while training :)

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Lathiira wrote:
Good thing he's not an assassin then. The things he could do with coasters would be downright terrifying.

Or, say, a bowler.

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