But this thread is about the movie. Why are people upset that we are discussing the movie in a thread for discussing the movie?
Because a large segment of the boards (e.g., all the Americans) haven't had a chance to see it, and might come here expecting discussion in anticipation of the movie.
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But this thread is about the movie. Why are people upset that we are discussing the movie in a thread for discussing the movie?
It's one thing to discuss it in general terms ... It was really good, the writing was great, be sure to stick around for the credits, that sort of thing. It's another to say 'hey, how 'bout the big reveal that Bob the butler was the murder!"
Seriously, the difference is not that difficult to figure out. Good rule of thumb - if you're afraid something might be a spoiler, just put it in a spoiler tag to be safe.
Would you have gone to a Star Wars message board the day Empire first came out and post "Hey wow, everyone! Sure didn't see Vader being Luke's father huh? That sure was a big reveal - hope you all saw the movie before reading this, 'cause otherwise I just ruined it for you!"
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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But this thread is about the movie. Why are people upset that we are discussing the movie in a thread for discussing the movie?It's one thing to discuss it in general terms ... It was really good, the writing was great, be sure to stick around for the credits, that sort of thing. It's another to say 'hey, how 'bout the big reveal that Bob the butler was the murder!"
Seriously, the difference is not that difficult to figure out. Good rule of thumb - if you're afraid something might be a spoiler, just put it in a spoiler tag to be safe.
Would you have gone to a Star Wars message board the day Empire first came out and post "Hey wow, everyone! Sure didn't see Vader being Luke's father huh? That sure was a big reveal - hope you all saw the movie before reading this, 'cause otherwise I just ruined it for you!"
Even for those of us who know the winter soldier is <redacted> from the comics, or suspect that Robert Redford is playing Dell Rusk (That's not a spoiler is it?) part of the fun of seeing the movie is (for me) seeing how the actors carry the part. I didn't need to be surprised how Johnny Blaze was the Ghost Rider, for example, I wanted to see Nick Cage chew the scenery in the only Ghost Rider movie (there was only one). If it turns out that <redacted> is an LMD, I want to be surprised, because it wasn't in the comics, for example.
I want to see how Chris Evans portrays the man out of time, for example.
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But this thread is about the movie. Why are people upset that we are discussing the movie in a thread for discussing the movie?
Discussing it isn't the issue, not using spoiler tags is. People read these to work out whether or not to go see a film as well as compare notes with those that have seen it. If you read my initial review I took great pains to avoid anything close to a spoiler in there, and made sure people knew that up front. The continuing conversation ought to flow from that just because the huge Domestic US audience for this film (a large part of this community) have not had the chance to see it yet.
Spoiler tags are just being nice to your fellow posters. Not using them does upset people. If you aren't familiar with that concept then fair enough, but you are now and you did upset a few people. If I were you I'd just take it on board for future posts really... (let's be constructive :-))
BTW, in the Sixth Sense:
Imagine reading THAT before seeing the movie!
The shield is awesome, and he uses it with fantastic skill and grace. I'm getting goosebumps just remembering the various manoeuvres he pulls off using this.Wouldn't be Cap without some cool shield stunts. Even in the comics, there's a throwaway scene I still remember years later: Cap is running down the street on his way to a meeting of the Avengers. Some minor crime is taking place off to one side. He unslings the shield, lets it fly to knock the petty criminal out, and catches it on the rebound without breaking stride or turning his head.
Obviously much cooler things are possible in a live action movie, and I look forward to it next weekend.
What you have described just there is (without spoilering) on the same scale as some of the less show-off moves he pulls with the shield. The best move he pulls? Just wait and see...
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I thought the Winter Soldier name referenced This, actually.
Yep. Exactly that.
I came up with the name in 2004, when I was pitching for [Captain America]. I liked the sound of it for a Russian assassin from the cold war, and also liked its connections to Thomas Paine, my personal favorite founding father. The “summer soldier” quote is from The American Crisis, and I believe he meant that the summer soldiers are only patriots when it’s easy to be, but the winter soldier is a true soldier for the cause.
But yes, the first time I heard the specific name was when reading about the Vietnam War and the Winter Soldier hearings. I think that sparked something, a name that could imply Russia’s cold winters and the cold war, that was also tied to atrocities in another war, and that connected all the way back to the American Revolution. It’s a very evocative name for a Captain America villain.
Who knew a Marvel blockbuster would enlighten me to American military history? I like that...
Ah, you and I have different definitions of "last Wednesday"! You meant "The same Wednesday as you, which was yesterday". I thought you meant the 19th. :-)Yeah, sorry about that. ^^" It always confusing to write on forums that have people from different time zones as my "day before yesterday" could be different day to someone else.
Someone mentioned 3D in this movie. When I try to think if there was any great 3D effects, none come to mind. BUT it could be that 3D was used in small details and not like "trying to jump scare everyone in theater with this effect".
But I think special effects in this movie were great, especially Falcon flying on dodging stuff.
Umm... if you recall events etc towards the end of the film, plus remember any locations which might involve a fair bit of depth in perspective, I think you'll agree that the 3D may well be awesome in this movie.
If you like that gimmick :-)
Call me crazy, but I feel that if the title character of a movie is defined largely by a national identity, that nation shouldn't be the last place to get the film, but the first. Bond films should open in the U.K. before anywhere else, and any movie titled 'Captain America' should open in the U.S. before anywhere else.
Epic fail, Disney.
Marvel/Disney have been doing this ever since Avengers Assemble. It makes sound business sense to release overseas before domestic. Whilst I understand the sentiment, particularly with regard to Captain America, maybe you might agree that being second to see it but knowing that Marvel Make More Money to produce further films is probably a better result.
Well, it is from my POV! ;->
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Even for those of us who know the winter soldier is <redacted> from the comics, or suspect that Robert Redford is playing Dell Rusk (That's not a spoiler is it?) part of the fun of seeing the movie is (for me) seeing how the actors carry the part. I didn't need to be surprised how Johnny Blaze was the Ghost Rider, for example, I wanted to see Nick Cage chew the scenery in the only Ghost Rider movie (there was only one). If it turns out that <redacted> is an LMD, I want to be surprised, because it wasn't in the comics, for example.
I want to see how Chris Evans portrays the man out of time, for example.
Ha, Dell Rusk is not a spoiler, unless people google for it, and even then they're likely just to get confused.
Captain America is very well-written in terms of his history. There are lines of dialogue and expressions which evoke his WW2 origins. There are further conversations where he is coming to terms with this new age. Notable is the list of things he has written down to remind him to look up later. This changes from country to country and for the UK has some UK-centric items which are a bit... odd. Likely that the USA list is still funny, but not quite as incongruous as the UK list.
More details here - I wouldn't count it a spoiler. Some odd stuff for both lists I think
Chris Evans plays him straight, but without falling into the 'uninformed dullard' mode of a man out of time. I really like him, he is believable, and not just someone pretending to not know how things are these days. He also shows that his old sensibilities are still relevant here, and there is one scene which would be a spoiler if I described it which really brings his man out of time aspect to the fore. Very emotional, in a sad way.
Umm... if you recall events etc towards the end of the film, plus remember any locations which might involve a fair bit of depth in perspective, I think you'll agree that the 3D may well be awesome in this movie.
If you like that gimmick :-)
Hmm, more reason to go see this movie again. Like I said, all effects were really cool and well made so maybe that's the reason why I don't "remember" 3D effects all too well. Or it could have been that the story made me forgot that I had something on my nose and to pay attention if 3D was used or how it was used.
Americans complaining... really complaining... that... get this... they have to WAIT to see a movie that has opened somewhere else in the world???
For serious? Really?
It boggles my mind.
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Americans complaining... really complaining... that... get this... they have to WAIT to see a movie that has opened somewhere else in the world???
For serious? Really?
It boggles my mind.
there's a patriotism aspect at play here that makes things difficult. I think America should see this movie first before anyone else, but I would feel the same about Israel getting the sabra movie before anyone else, Saudi Arabia getting the Arabian Knight movie before others did, UK getting captain Britain before anyone else, etc.
Even for those of us who know the winter soldier is <redacted> from the comics, or suspect that Robert Redford is playing Dell Rusk (That's not a spoiler is it?) part of the fun of seeing the movie is (for me) seeing how the actors carry the part. I didn't need to be surprised how Johnny Blaze was the Ghost Rider, for example, I wanted to see Nick Cage chew the scenery in the only Ghost Rider movie (there was only one). If it turns out that <redacted> is an LMD, I want to be surprised, because it wasn't in the comics, for example.
I want to see how Chris Evans portrays the man out of time, for example.
Ha, Dell Rusk is not a spoiler, unless people google for it, and even then they're likely just to get confused.
Captain America is very well-written in terms of his history. There are lines of dialogue and expressions which evoke his WW2 origins. There are further conversations where he is coming to terms with this new age. Notable is the list of things he has written down to remind him to look up later. This changes from country to country and for the UK has some UK-centric items which are a bit... odd. Likely that the USA list is still funny, but not quite as incongruous as the UK list.
More details here - I wouldn't count it a spoiler. Some odd stuff for both lists I think
Chris Evans plays him straight, but without falling into the 'uninformed dullard' mode of a man out of time. I really like him, he is believable, and not just someone pretending to not know how things are these days. He also shows that his old sensibilities are still relevant here, and there is one scene which would be a spoiler if I described it which really brings his man out of time aspect to the fore. Very emotional, in a sad way.
that should make mm happy.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Even for those of us who know the winter soldier is <redacted> from the comics, or suspect that Robert Redford is playing Dell Rusk (That's not a spoiler is it?) part of the fun of seeing the movie is (for me) seeing how the actors carry the part. I didn't need to be surprised how Johnny Blaze was the Ghost Rider, for example, I wanted to see Nick Cage chew the scenery in the only Ghost Rider movie (there was only one). If it turns out that <redacted> is an LMD, I want to be surprised, because it wasn't in the comics, for example.
I want to see how Chris Evans portrays the man out of time, for example.
Ha, Dell Rusk is not a spoiler, unless people google for it, and even then they're likely just to get confused.
Captain America is very well-written in terms of his history. There are lines of dialogue and expressions which evoke his WW2 origins. There are further conversations where he is coming to terms with this new age. Notable is the list of things he has written down to remind him to look up later. This changes from country to country and for the UK has some UK-centric items which are a bit... odd. Likely that the USA list is still funny, but not quite as incongruous as the UK list.
More details here - I wouldn't count it a spoiler. Some odd stuff for both lists I think
Chris Evans plays him straight, but without falling into the 'uninformed dullard' mode of a man out of time. I really like him, he is believable, and not just someone pretending to not know how things are these days. He also shows that his old sensibilities are still relevant here, and there is one scene which would be a spoiler if I described it which really brings his man out of time aspect to the fore. Very emotional, in a sad way.
Good. It is one of the aspects of 'freshly thawed Cap' I enjoy being done well. I need to find Bageley's "Man out of Time" in a collected format. It's basically written as Steve waking up in 2010.
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Because a large segment of the boards (e.g., all the Americans) haven't had a chance to see it, and might come here expecting discussion in anticipation of the movie.
You have to expect that's the risk you take - stumbling on to an unobscured spoiler - whenever you get into these discussions. If you really want to avoid spoilers, you have to take the responsibility for doing so.
I was just involved in a discussion about this on another site where someone felt that the latest developments in Walking Dead were spoiled for him before he had a chance to watch the episode in question. Personally, I found it simple to avoid the spoilers because I don't watch the show at all, am not interested in it, and don't participate in message board discussions about it (which was ultimately his downfall). So whatever surprise it has remains unspoiled for me (not that I care). The main point is - his own behavior is what put him at risk of having the surprise spoiled for him. If you want to be serious about not having something spoiled, refrain from discussion groups about it until you've seen it or are ready to risk having it spoiled.
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Who knew a Marvel blockbuster would enlighten me to American military history? I like that...
Some of those Marvel guys are pretty literate.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Some of those Marvel guys are pretty literate.
Who knew a Marvel blockbuster would enlighten me to American military history? I like that...
Living in rural SE Ohio, my first exposure to The Bard, to the Spartans, and who knows what else, came from X-men.
Kind of like how I discovered Coolridge and Tennyson from Iron Maiden.
Good. It is one of the aspects of 'freshly thawed Cap' I enjoy being done well. I need to find Bageley's "Man out of Time" in a collected format. It's basically written as Steve waking up in 2010.
Is this what you're looking for?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Is this what you're looking for?
Good. It is one of the aspects of 'freshly thawed Cap' I enjoy being done well. I need to find Bageley's "Man out of Time" in a collected format. It's basically written as Steve waking up in 2010.
Yup, exactly it.
Because a large segment of the boards (e.g., all the Americans) haven't had a chance to see it, and might come here expecting discussion in anticipation of the movie.You have to expect that's the risk you take - stumbling on to an unobscured spoiler - whenever you get into these discussions. If you really want to avoid spoilers, you have to take the responsibility for doing so.
I was just involved in a discussion about this on another site where someone felt that the latest developments in Walking Dead were spoiled for him before he had a chance to watch the episode in question. Personally, I found it simple to avoid the spoilers because I don't watch the show at all, am not interested in it, and don't participate in message board discussions about it (which was ultimately his downfall). So whatever surprise it has remains unspoiled for me (not that I care). The main point is - his own behavior is what put him at risk of having the surprise spoiled for him. If you want to be serious about not having something spoiled, refrain from discussion groups about it until you've seen it or are ready to risk having it spoiled.
I think that after a movie has appeared in cinemas or after a show has aired those are risks you need to definitely bear in mind. I too watch The Walking Dead and unfortunately am only 1/2 way through Season 2 - so I avidly avoid any mention of it online (I took a risk with your post, using the rationale you've put above).
Here though, for Americans at least, this is not yet onscreen, so there is a reasonable assumption that spoilers won't be present. This is true of any film magazine (whose review/commentary appear in advance of audience screenings). I also clearly marked my own post as spoiler-free, and hoped others would follow.
Personally, I hate spoilers, ever since some idiot intentionally revealed the twist in The Sixth Sense on a live TV show during the week it debuted in cinemas. This was just to upset and spoil it for people who had yet to see it.
And don't get me started on trailers.
Saw this last night, absolutely loved it. Trying to get a group of work friends together to go see it again next week.
Always really enjoyed Robert Redford's work as well, so it was great to see him in it.
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Who knew a Marvel blockbuster would enlighten me to American military history? I like that...
Operation paperclip was also mentioned briefly, and its more or less accurately described. (barring evil redacted redactids)
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Couldn't help myself.
I've heard it both ways.
I like this one. :D
Just got back from seeing this myself. My favorite of the MCU films so far- they seem to just keep getting better and better (with the possible exception of Iron Man 2, which wasn't bad, just wasn't as good as the first one).
Excellent performances, very nuanced and dense script. I was worried with the size of the cast that it would run aground of Batman Franchise-itis, and the lead would get lost in his own film, but that wasn't the case at all. Everyone was given a remarkable (in current films) amount of screen time and character moments, and Cap still remained the heart and driving force behind the film, in a way that he wasn't as much in his prior two go-runs. Evans does a great job; kind of hard to believe this is the guy that played Johnny Storm, but I think it is a testament to how much the script matters. Even a good actor can only do so much with a lousy story and dialogue, but if you them the material to work with, then they can do wonders with it, and Evans does so here.
Not just Evans, either. I'm rarely impressed with Scarlett Johannson's work (she always seems to affected to me), but she does a fairly nuanced performance with Black Widow here, and is similarly given more to work with than in her prior two appearances in the MCU. We even finally start to get a little bit more of her backstory.
I was especially impressed with Anthony Mackie, whose work I haven't seen before, but he seemed a little too- I guess- fanboyish in the interviews I'd seen, and wasn't sure what to expect (plus, again, was worried about overkill on characters). They do a great job of introducing him as Sam Wilson and establishing his friendship with Cap long before they ever have him suit up as the Falcon, and that was really cool. I was disappointed that they didn't have Hawkeye in this instead of Widow, because Clint is one of my favorite heroes and his friendship/antagonistic relationship with Cap is one of my favorite dynamics, but I see why they didn't. That relationship wouldn't have worked with the Falcon here- they'd either have to have one or the other, and this was so well done, I didn't miss Clint.
They had an interesting- and unexpected- twist to the big villain here that I was impressed with (I thought they were going to be too obvious about things), and a cool cameo villain (with a really well done homage to his comic book appearance). All of the other supporting roles were handled well, and they continue to do setup for follow up films; giving grounding to Agent 13 and that relationship; the Winter Soldier; and another character from the comics. Plus some interesting stingers.
All in all, I'd highly recommend this to anyone. I think Captain America: The First Avenger is kind of required viewing, but you don't necessarily need to see the other MCU movies.
Loved it.
Ultron? No Thanos in the 2nd Avengers movie? What about that cameo at the end of the first one?
And Ultron with no Hank Pym introduced yet?
Hmmm if he is introed in a 2nd Avengers movie, I can't wait to see what special effects can do with "Giant-Man." (Guessing they won't go the Ant-Man route)
In one of the animated specials which seem to be pretty heavily tied to the recent Marvel movies, Ultron is being re-imagined as a Bruce Banner screwup instead of Hank Pym's.
Fun thing about that special. It has the usual Hulk-Thor fight in this case being held in Asgard. Thor gets thrown like a rag doll again'st Loki's cell which brings for the inevitable quip from Loki.
"Who's the puny god now?"
Which animated special is that? That's a good line.
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I've heard it both ways. Unfortunately the first one far more often.Actually it's a rather stupid one, stemming from common belief in the U.S. that it's always snowing in Russia.Sure they don't call him that because they keep him in cryo-sleep between missions?
I believe there are multiple reasons for the "Winter Soldier" moniker.
1. Cap was frozen for a long time so it is a nod to Cap.2. "Winter Soldier" was kept in cryo-sleep between missions.
3. This was a Cold War era plot line revolving around struggle between the U.S. and Soviet Union so. Many career soldiers were called "Cold Warriors" but Winter Soldier probably sounded better.
4. For those who know the Winter Soldier storyline there is also the concept of an agent being "out in the cold", haven't seen the movie so I don't want to say anymore in case that plot element has been included.
Not sure anyone who says it is because it snows a lot should be taken too seriously but maybe the movie people have latched onto that?
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I believe there are multiple reasons for the "Winter Soldier" moniker.
1. Cap was frozen for a long time so it is a nod to Cap.
2. "Winter Soldier" was kept in cryo-sleep between missions.
3. This was a Cold War era plot line revolving around struggle between the U.S. and Soviet Union so. Many career soldiers were called "Cold Warriors" but Winter Soldier probably sounded better.
4. For those who know the Winter Soldier storyline there is also the concept of an agent being "out in the cold", haven't seen the movie so I don't want to say anymore in case that plot element has been included.Not sure anyone who says it is because it snows a lot should be taken too seriously but maybe the movie people have latched onto that?
One way I haven't seen explored yet (and obviously wouldn't be an explicit part of the movie as this would confuse everyone) is that Captain America could be seen a a Winter Soldier.
If you take the words of Thomas Paine during the American Revolution: "These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
And then how John Kerry refers to those words during the Winter Soldier hearings: "We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out."
Bolded for emphasis.
Spoilered not for specific events but the general trend of the movie.
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15 second review: I didn't know Edward Snowden: The movie could involve punching so many people!
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Damn, that was a great movie! It had everything I wanted from a modern-era Cap movie. It's my new favorite superhero movie.