How to give fighters some mysticism?


Advice


I'm working on an E6 (probably E7, really) home-brew campaign setting. My idea is that the world is filled with spirits (working name) of myriad forms, similar to spren in Sanderson's Way of Kings. It is by bonding with these spirits that PCs become extraordinary. Sorcerers get their powers by bonding with elemental spirits. Clerics by bonding with divine spirits. Etc.

I have a different kind of spirit that bonds with each class, which is essentially what MAKES THEM that class. The spirit that will bond with a fighter is called a "valkyrie." However, the idea is that each spirit imparts some form of powers to the person (rage for a barbarian, animal companion/spells for a druid, spells for a sorcerer, etc.). My problem is that fighters, while awesome in their own way, are entirely mundane. What kind of powers could I have a bonded spirit impart to a fighter?

So far, I've been thinking it would be free magical enhancements to weapons/armor, similar to how a paladin can use Divine Bond to make their weapons holy, etc. Or maybe it would be more frequent ability score increases. Or maybe I could just say that fighters get extra feats because their valkyrie teach them those extra feats...but that seems dull.

So, I turn to you, oh great and powerful Paizo hivemind. Please, I know there's potential for fighter hate to creep in here. That's not what I'm looking for. (I actually quite like playing fighters.) I just need help skinning them as a little more mystical.


Wildebob wrote:

I'm working on an E6 (probably E7, really) home-brew campaign setting. My idea is that the world is filled with spirits (working name) of myriad forms, similar to spren in Sanderson's Way of Kings. It is by bonding with these spirits that PCs become extraordinary. Sorcerers get their powers by bonding with elemental spirits. Clerics by bonding with divine spirits. Etc.

I have a different kind of spirit that bonds with each class, which is essentially what MAKES THEM that class. The spirit that will bond with a fighter is called a "valkyrie." However, the idea is that each spirit imparts some form of powers to the person (rage for a barbarian, animal companion/spells for a druid, spells for a sorcerer, etc.). My problem is that fighters, while awesome in their own way, are entirely mundane. What kind of powers could I have a bonded spirit impart to a fighter?

So far, I've been thinking it would be free magical enhancements to weapons/armor, similar to how a paladin can use Divine Bond to make their weapons holy, etc. Or maybe it would be more frequent ability score increases. Or maybe I could just say that fighters get extra feats because their valkyrie teach them those extra feats...but that seems dull.

So, I turn to you, oh great and powerful Paizo hivemind. Please, I know there's potential for fighter hate to creep in here. That's not what I'm looking for. (I actually quite like playing fighters.) I just need help skinning them as a little more mystical.

It looks like you're using those spirits to impart to characters powers that already exist within the class, basically explaining their origins rather than adding to their abilities... if that is indeed the case then yes, having the spirit be what empowers the 'Weapon Training' aspect of the fighter seems like the way to go, similar to the Divine Bond of Paladins - have the weapons glow when used or spark when struck, flashing that mystical energy which guides and strengthens their blows.


Yes, Wiggz, you're right. The spirits are more of a flavor thing than a mechanics thing, though I'm perfectly willing to fiddle with mechanics if it will make the flavor cooler. Thanks for clarifying.


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Each fighter bonus feat could represent a different sprit. For example, when the fighter makes use of a feat, they could call upon the power of the spirit to guide their actions - a combat prowess not known to most mortals.

Or, you could go the other way. If fighters are the "mundane" class, give the fighter some abilities that resist the effects of spirits - a reflavoring of the fighter's Will bonuses.

Scarab Sages

LibraryRPGamer wrote:
Or, you could go the other way. If fighters are the "mundane" class, give the fighter some abilities that resist the effects of spirits - a reflavoring of the fighter's Will bonuses.

I like this. Maybe even give Fighter a free Disruptive/Spellbreaker feat at the level cap to represent the training to resist and disrupt spirit bonds in others.


If you want fighters to be more mystical in your world, you could develop something similar to the Quingong monk archetype where they could choose to replace certain class abilities (or feats) with spell like abilities. I've been toying with something like this for both fighters and rogues although the idea is still embryonic. I would call it the wuxia archetype :)


OP, have you taken a look at the Viking archetype for fighters? May not be exactly what you're looking for, but may be a good guideline for adding some Valkyrie awesomeness to your group's fighter characters.


LibraryRPGamer wrote:
Or, you could go the other way. If fighters are the "mundane" class, give the fighter some abilities that resist the effects of spirits - a reflavoring of the fighter's Will bonuses.

That is, indeed, a very fascinating idea. I'm going to think on this one some more. My only pause with that is that those who have no bonded spirit (working name "unbonded") are considered second-class citizens in this world, or of a lower caste. While that could be a cool opportunity to have the guy who "doesn't belong" as part of the party, I'd rather not pidgeon-hole all fighters into that category.

@Lamontius, I'll check that out as soon as I get home from work.

Scarab Sages

The setting actually reminds me a bit of the Codex Alera books by Jim Butcher. Sounds interesting.


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I'm very much a fan of all that martial ability coming from a spirit of war, the feats, the weapon and armor training. In the fluff of skills learned this is a large step beyond the other martial classes, how does a seeming mundane fighter master so much, so fast? Well their spirits are more detached beings, these eternal spirits bond to a fighter and watch them for their entire life, never providing aid like those that gift magical powers, they believe mortals must succeed by their own might alone. But the spirit is still bonded to the fighter so it is impossible for the spirit to observe the fighter without some influence slipping through the connection. That is where the memories come from, it starts as glimpses, or a feeling of familiarity with a martial weapon you've never wielded, the flashback of dueling a giant in battle that occurred thousands of years ago. But as the fighter grows the bond strengthens and they can draw on the skill, expertise, and memories of a line of fighters that goes back unbroken to the dawn of time. But these memories are limited to the heat of battle, for the spirit is an alien creature that values only martial ability.

Inspired by Mat from the Wheel of Time, and to a lesser degree the Wheel of Time references to the Old Blood being strong.

Also, how are you doing rogues?


@Imbicatus, I've never heard of that series. I'll have to read it if what I'm doing reminds you of that. Thanks!

@DM Livgin, that is really great! Also reminds me of Richard from Sword of Truth when he turns his body over to the echoes of the previous owners of the sword in order to fight with their expertise. Rogues will use shadow spirits called "wisps" (working title). It will make them unnaturally sneaky (stealth, sneak attack, etc.). This does push rogues into the sneak version and precludes the more swashbuckling type a little. I'll have to chew on that a bit more.

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Okay, I'm going to really go outside the box here. Have you considered introducing spirits as a game mechanic that runs independent from classes? What if choosing your relationship with spirits is a character option one chooses in addition to their race and class? One such relationship could be simply resisting the spirits, which makes the character resilient against their power.

One example of implementing this is having one's spirit connection come from a set of powerful traits. Some can only work for certain classes or only have benefits that affect certain class features.

LibraryRPGamer wrote:

Each fighter bonus feat could represent a different sprit. For example, when the fighter makes use of a feat, they could call upon the power of the spirit to guide their actions - a combat prowess not known to most mortals.

Or, you could go the other way. If fighters are the "mundane" class, give the fighter some abilities that resist the effects of spirits - a reflavoring of the fighter's Will bonuses.

I really like this idea. It makes the fighter Batman in a world full of superheroes.

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Look into the Pact Magic rules. I think you will find it fits you campaign very well.


CalebTGordan wrote:
Look into the Pact Magic rules. I think you will find it fits you campaign very well.

I was about to say...


That books looks really cool. I must purchase it forthwith.

Scarab Sages

Wildebob wrote:

@Imbicatus, I've never heard of that series. I'll have to read it if what I'm doing reminds you of that. Thanks!

It's a six book series, and it was written as the result of a forum bet that you can't make a good story out of a lame idea. Jim raised the stakes and boasted, fine, I'll do it with two lame ideas of your choice. The ideas were a lost roman legion and pokemon.

What we have is a society founded by a Roman legion sent to another world, where everyone in the nation has a link to one or more elemental spirits, allowing them to do superhuman things based on the type of spirit. Earth spirits make you very strong, metal spirits give skill with weapons, water spirits let you heal, harm, and change bodies, Wood lets you use bows really well or camouflage yourself, Fire lets you burn things, air makes you very fast or lets you fly. They can also summon the spirit to physically manifest.

There are also Barbarians that bond with animals instead of spirits, and they gain enhanced strength and the qualities of what they bond with.

The main character is the only person in the country who doesn't have any spirits bonded with him.

Jim Butcher is my favorite author, and while Codex Alera has a very different feel form the Dresden Files, it's a great fantasy series.


It sounds like you're looking for more of a Hong Kong martial arts mysticism mixed with totem spirit-style mysticism. Arcana Unearthed had a totem warrior class that might help with what you're looking for, you can see if anyone has posted a conversion in the Conversions thread. I wrote a pdf on writing Native Americans and Native American mythology here http://paizo.com/products/btpy94ll?Writing-Native-Americans-for-Pathfinder- and-Other-RPGs.

If you want to make a homebrew mysticism, you can make groupings of traits and feats for martial characters. You can make a trait and feat tree for different styles: Wind- bonus to movement, AC, and Reflex Saves; Earth- bonus to grappling, CMD, Fort save and damage; Fire- bonus to damage and bonus to hit; Water- bonus to AC vs AoO and fire resistance 5.


I would honestly say take a look at some of the sorcerous bloodlines and take it from there actually. Exchange some of your feats and fighter weapon abilities for different sorcerous powers and abilities and see if that works.


Imbicatus wrote:
Wildebob wrote:

@Imbicatus, I've never heard of that series. I'll have to read it if what I'm doing reminds you of that. Thanks!

It's a six book series, and it was written as the result of a forum bet that you can't make a good story out of a lame idea. Jim raised the stakes and boasted, fine, I'll do it with two lame ideas of your choice. The ideas were a lost roman legion and pokemon. . . .

Wow.

I didn't know that. And I have to echo the sentiment that its a great series. I felt the wrap up was a bit too quick and possibly trite, but I loved the crap out of All of them.

There's enough persons that are of the opinion that certain classes under perform. I happen to share that opinion. I suggest just throwing whatever you add on top of fighter and rogue and go from there. I'd almost suggest allowing them have an extraordinary ability that they pick at every odd level that mimics a battle field control spell. Their 'caster level' could be their base attack. Slap some kind of limit on the number of times it could be used in combat. Call it tactical advantage, or something.

Slick shoes (Ex): Throw a flask of oil at your opponents feet. (Grease)
Sand in your eyes (Ex): ...you throw sand in their eyes. (Mudball)
Instant cover: You are better at using poor lighting and soft cover to confound your foes. (Blur)

Just a thought.


So, I'm thinking of basing the fighter's spirit-bond powers loosely on the barbarian's rage. A certain amount of time per day, they can let their valkyrie take control of their body and fight with a skill and prowess beyond their natural ability. This will grant some attack and/or damage bonus or some other thematic ability/bonus. The valkyrie could gain feats, or maybe valkyrie powers similar to rage powers, that the fighter can use during the "valkyrie possession."

So, Craig the swordsman could be bonded to a valkyrie spirit that has improved and greater two-weapon fighting. When Craig gives the valkyrie control, he gains those feats and some boost to attacks/abilities/whatever for a few rounds.

This is a premature idea...but what does everyone think? Does that sound like a viable and safe mechanic to add on without crashing the system?


Another avenue I'm toying with is that the valkyrie takes the form of a weapon and the valkyrie weapon gains in power as you do. Similar to "weapons of legacy," right? I've heard that's unpopular and not entirely balanced though, am I right?

Suggestions for this avenue?


honestly i would ADD something to the fighter class. They could USE some additional abilities. In particular I'd do one of 2 things, one add the Yuxia archetype (without replacing anything) to the fighter from rogue genius' martial archetypes (available on d20pfsrd). Or use the dreamscared press' warlord in place of the fighter

Edit: I'd also give rogues a similar treatment


Kolokotroni wrote:

honestly i would ADD something to the fighter class. They could USE some additional abilities. In particular I'd do one of 2 things, one add the Yuxia archetype (without replacing anything) to the fighter from rogue genius' martial archetypes (available on d20pfsrd). Or use the dreamscared press' warlord in place of the fighter

Edit: I'd also give rogues a similar treatment

I'm unfamiliar with both of those archetypes. Do you think they're thematically appropriate to my setting, or just good power boosts for lagging classes? Your post made it sound a little bit like the latter.


Both.

The yuxia will essentially give the fighter a ki pool and a few ki based talentes every other level. They arent game breaking, but they offer options to make the character feel sort of like a kung fu movie character without being a monk. I think in terms of spiritual power ki is a very good example thematically.

The warlord is a retread by dreamscared press of the book of nine swords. If you are familiar with it, I think you'd agree that bonding with a spiritual entity would be a great explanation for alot of those sorts of abilities in a martial character. Maybe not all of them, but certainly many.


Awesome!

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The ki pool could work. You could say they are able to draw on the spirit to achieve an intense focus and awareness of everything around them, giving them bonuses on initiative, to hit, damage, extra chances to dodge, parry, redirect, etc. Or maybe the spirit bonds with their weapon and they can get enhancements to their weapon (like the magus arcane pool).

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