bucklers confuse me


Rules Questions


Basically what I want to know is this:

Is using your off-hand to help wield a 2handed weapon considered "using that hand to wield a weapon" thereby making you lose the buckler's AC bonus for a round?

Can I attack with a greatsword and still get the AC bonus?
Can I attack with a bow and still get the AC bonus?

Shadow Lodge

Yes.
No.
No.


I agree with Serum.


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However, if you're jonesin' to play a 2H + Buckler character, check out the Thunderstriker Fighter Archetype.


Wow ok so I might need some clarification on this. I think in 3.5 a bow/buckler combo was explicitly worded that they couldn't be used together. But in pathfinder it's a little grey...

According to the CRB:

BUCKLER: this small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

So here is a scenario: A character fires a longbow with a buckler strapped to to their 'arrow-arm'. Being that they never possessed a weapon in that arm, by RAW they retain the buckler's AC bonus.

The same thing could be said for using a wand in an off hand as well being that there are no somatic components when using a wand.

Was there an FAQ or errata on this?


BornofHate wrote:

Wow ok so I might need some clarification on this. I think in 3.5 a bow/buckler combo was explicitly worded that they couldn't be used together. But in pathfinder it's a little grey...

According to the CRB:

BUCKLER: this small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

So here is a scenario: A character fires a longbow with a buckler strapped to to their 'arrow-arm'. Being that they never possessed a weapon in that arm, by RAW they retain the buckler's AC bonus.

The same thing could be said for using a wand in an off hand as well being that there are no somatic components when using a wand.

Was there an FAQ or errata on this?

Bows require two hands to use. Which hand is holding the bow or drawing arrows is irrelevant, both hands are in use.


Duh. That makes sense.

My players are gonna be pissed. :(

Scarab Sages

They still have their uses... the switch hitter Elven Ranger in my game uses a buckler. When something gets too close, she drops the bow and draws her longsword.

The Exchange

The are still good for the time before you start using both hands or if you switch weapons to use a back up one that is one handed


What about a mage wielding a Mithral buckler?

If the mage wields the buckler in his off hand he can cast spells with somatic components with his main hand right? I don't see a downside in this case.


Go yeomen. Always wear your buckler while using your longbow. It does not work to improve your AC. But then when they close, draw your weapon and your buckler is ready to go!

I remember medieval 2 allowed it though. Some buckler and bow units were very good, as buckler always counted. There were even a few that had a large shield on their back instead of in their hand, which protected them from rear ranged attacks. A lot of good ideas buried in the code of that game system.


Are there any rules for a really small shield like wielded with a one hand grip like a target or a small 'hutt type' shield.


Unseelie wrote:
They still have their uses... the switch hitter Elven Ranger in my game uses a buckler. When something gets too close, she drops the bow and draws her longsword.

Do they even need to drop their bow?

They should be able to hold just the bow in the buckler hand without losing the buckler's AC bonus, as they are not using a weapon in that hand.


@Karl: The two examples you gave are examples of bucklers.

buck·ler
ˈbəkələr/Submit
nounhistorical
noun: buckler; plural noun: bucklers
1.
a small, round shield held by a handle or worn on the forearm.


Kelarith wrote:

@Karl: The two examples you gave are examples of bucklers.

buck·ler
ˈbəkələr/Submit
nounhistorical
noun: buckler; plural noun: bucklers
1.
a small, round shield held by a handle or worn on the forearm.

Yes however, in the game they are strapped to the forearm. I was asking about the type only held by the handle not strapped in anyway.


Yeah, its been mentioned in a lot of other threads, shields kind of get trampled by the generalization of the game mechanics, but most fighting styles arent accurate representations if you know much about them (cant speak for magic though, maybe that one is spot on)


There's a weapon, the Tekko-Kagi, which is a steel claw that can double as a makeshift buckler. Essentially, if you're attacking with it, it acts as a light weapon but if you don't attack with it, it can provide a +1 shield bonus as if it were a buckler.

Regarding spellcasting, it applies somatic failure rate only if the hand wearing the shield is performing any somatic components. If your other hand is free (ie. you have the shield on one hand and nothing in your other hand), you can use your free hand at no penalty. But if you're wielding, say, a flail along with your shield, you'd have to hold it with your shield hand while casting, then swap it back. In the case of a Heavy Shield, you can't hold anything in that hand so this will only work if using a Buckler or Light Shield.

As an additional note, Thunderstriker is mainly for 1-h+Buckler because it's about switching between TWF and 2-h stances and you can't TWF with shield + 2-h weapon. The flavor for Thunderstriker is that you TWF with 1-h + Buckler while retaining shield bonus when up against mooks, then switch to wielding the 1-h weapon in two hands against stronger opponents.


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The magic is bogus. Like I totally cast a 'dominate' spell on my dad and he still won't let me play dark dungeons.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The technological equivalents are no better. I once pointed a TV remote at my parents and pressed the "Parental Control" button. They kept on doing exactly as they pleased.


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David knott 242 wrote:

The technological equivalents are no better. I once pointed a TV remote at my parents and pressed the "Parental Control" button. They kept on doing exactly as they pleased.

Try the 'mute' button on your wife. Not only doesn't it work, they don't think it's very funny.

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