Reincarnate -- legalized cheese?


Advice

Sovereign Court

What stops a player from helping a Human barbarian come back as an Orc or something? Then they keep the free feat? Seems like a lot of cheese possible with this :p


Easy. As a GM, don't let them pick what they come back as. Reincarnate says local creatures. Have optimizers come back as goblins or kobolds.

Grand Lodge

You roll.

It's random.

It is about as "cheese" as a Rod of Wonder.

Also, "cheese" is stupid term, and makes no sense in this situation.


Randomness makes it harder to reincarnate into the race you want, but if that were the only factor, a dedicated PC could keep letting their ally kill them and reincarnate again and again until they rolled what they wanted.

...What really stops abuse of the Reincarnate spell is the 1000gp worth of oils that you need to use to cast it. Trying to abuse the spell is going to get expensive very quickly.

Grand Lodge

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It is sort of like calling an automatic hit on a natural 20, "cheese".

"What?!? When roll a natural 20, you hit no matter how high the AC?!? What cheese is this?!?"


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

There are also the negative levels you gain with each casting -- so you have to factor in the cost of Restoration spells as well.

Sovereign Court

David knott 242 wrote:

There are also the negative levels you gain with each casting -- so you have to factor in the cost of Restoration spells as well.

Interesting I hadn't read this.

Grand Lodge

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I think there is a lot more you haven't read.

Also, I think there is a lot you are reading, that isn't there.

That is just my personal opinion though.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I think there is a lot more you haven't read.

Also, I think there is a lot you are reading, that isn't there.

That is just my personal opinion though.

I think you write a lot of things that don't need to be written.


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Remy Balster wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

I think there is a lot more you haven't read.

Also, I think there is a lot you are reading, that isn't there.

That is just my personal opinion though.

I think you write a lot of things that don't need to be written.

I think he should write more unneeded things.


Gluttony wrote:

Randomness makes it harder to reincarnate into the race you want, but if that were the only factor, a dedicated PC could keep letting their ally kill them and reincarnate again and again until they rolled what they wanted.

...What really stops abuse of the Reincarnate spell is the 1000gp worth of oils that you need to use to cast it. Trying to abuse the spell is going to get expensive very quickly.

Also Pharasma might object and decided it is indeed time to sing "it's the final countdown?"


RDM42 wrote:
Gluttony wrote:

Randomness makes it harder to reincarnate into the race you want, but if that were the only factor, a dedicated PC could keep letting their ally kill them and reincarnate again and again until they rolled what they wanted.

...What really stops abuse of the Reincarnate spell is the 1000gp worth of oils that you need to use to cast it. Trying to abuse the spell is going to get expensive very quickly.

Also Pharasma might object and decided it is indeed time to sing "it's the final countdown?"

According to James Jacobs, Pharasma really doesn't object too much to people using such magics, because everyone passes through her realm, regardless of the abilities they may or may not have.

She really only objects to undeath and people that infringe on her domain.


Tels wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
Gluttony wrote:

Randomness makes it harder to reincarnate into the race you want, but if that were the only factor, a dedicated PC could keep letting their ally kill them and reincarnate again and again until they rolled what they wanted.

...What really stops abuse of the Reincarnate spell is the 1000gp worth of oils that you need to use to cast it. Trying to abuse the spell is going to get expensive very quickly.

Also Pharasma might object and decided it is indeed time to sing "it's the final countdown?"

According to James Jacobs, Pharasma really doesn't object too much to people using such magics, because everyone passes through her realm, regardless of the abilities they may or may not have.

She really only objects to undeath and people that infringe on her domain.

There is using such magics, and then there is spamming them like water through a sieve. If you start using it like a Gatling gun to get a specific result killing and reincarnating yourself she might well overcome he ennui for that specific individual, I think.


I'm looking forward to reincarnating my character at some point. Not because I'm looking for a specific race, but because my character has physical stat penalties for old age. Anything would be an improvement, even a goblin. The only one I wouldn't want in terms of stats would be a kobold, which is only a 1 in 25 chance.

I am somewhat concerned about the RP aspects. As cool as bugbear physical attributes might be, I'd probably be better off in RP terms with a more traditional PC race. The odds are pretty high of getting one of those, though, so it doesn't require exploiting rare odds. A +2 dex or a +2 con would just be the cherry on top compared to losing the -3 to str/dex/con.

Gluttony wrote:
...What really stops abuse of the Reincarnate spell is the 1000gp worth of oils that you need to use to cast it. Trying to abuse the spell is going to get expensive very quickly.

There are ways around that, but it may get a bit convoluted. A witch has "blood money" which can avoid 1000gp of material components fairly easily (and is itself fixed by lesser restoration, which is free). At higher levels a witch may also get the forced reincarnation hex to use once a day for free. Reincarnate is not on the Witch spell list, which tends to complicate things, but there are various methods to get it all working together.


Wowow I didn't know the mighty god pharasma had enough time in the day for a level 7 druid and his buddy. I am glad in your world she focuses on the important issues


CWheezy wrote:
Wowow I didn't know the mighty god pharasma had enough time in the day for a level 7 druid and his buddy. I am glad in your world she focuses on the important issues

You think a deity is only and ever allowed to take notice of a specific individual by his challenge rating?


Just using reincarnate is just using reincarnate. Repeatedly purposely killing yourself and reincarnating until you come back as what you want is standing on top of a tall tree in wet copper armor shouting "SMITE ME OH MIGHTY SMITER!!!!!!!!" Spamming it like that almost rises to the level of open metaphysical mocking.


CWheezy wrote:
Wowow I didn't know the mighty god pharasma had enough time in the day for a level 7 druid and his buddy. I am glad in your world she focuses on the important issues

She'd notice it after a few times, probably become irritated. After too many times it might even upset her enough to intervene. She wouldn't have to do much, just set the % chance to 100% for whatever is the worst possible option.


Remy Balster wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
Wowow I didn't know the mighty god pharasma had enough time in the day for a level 7 druid and his buddy. I am glad in your world she focuses on the important issues
She'd notice it after a few times, probably become irritated. After too many times it might even upset her enough to intervene. She wouldn't have to do much, just set the % chance to 100% for whatever is the worst possible option.

A voice sounds in their head after the twentieth consecutive suicide/reincarnate.

"Hey. Da boss says you now have a choice. Come back as what you originally were ... Or come back as a mite permanently. Have a nice day."


Anachrony wrote:
a kobold, which is only a 1 in 25 chance.

Well, I guess it's better than none. :/


I liked that when you come back as a human you get a +2 Con bonus (its on the chart).

Also the 2 negative levels can be taken care of with a 2 restoration spell, just costs 2000gp extra.

The Exchange

Splendor wrote:
I liked that when you come back as a human you get a +2 Con bonus (its on the chart).

Yes, but you lose whatever racial adjustments you had to start.

First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.

When you reincarnate as a human you have no choice... your +2 automatically goes to CON.


It's been faqed I think that only physical stats change. If you're a human with your +2 in a mental stat it stays there. And you get +2 con.

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