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At the moment the entirety of the Fighter class can be summed up as Bonus Feats, Bravery, Armor Training, Weapon Training, Armor Mastery, and Weapon Mastery. About 3-6 class features, depending on how you slice it. I think everyone agrees that Bravery is a joke feature, while the masteries are basically part of the training. Most people would also agree that the Fighter needs 4 + Int modifier skills. I would add the following skills to his class skill list: Diplomacy, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Perception, and Sense Motive.
Anyway, if the Fighter class table was expressed so that it got Bonus Feats and Weapon Training as class features at 1st level, and Armor Training as a class feature at 3rd level, and they still encompassed the full number of feats and bonuses they used to, then that leaves 18 dead levels to fill in with other class features. That's where we as a community come in.
So, if you had 18 dead levels to fill in for the Fighter, what you give them that would put them on par with Barbarians, Rangers, and Paladins?
My two cents:
Tactical Awareness (Ex): At 2nd level the Fighter gains a +1 bonus to CMB, CMD, Initiative, and Perception. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every four levels thereafter.
Combat Superiority (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Fighter's skill is sufficient to allow him to ignore all ability score requirements of combat feats he takes. Furthermore, for the purpose of qualifying for combat feats, his base attack bonus is treated as being +1 higher than it is at 4th level, +2 higher at 8th level, +3 higher at 12th level, and so on.
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Those aren't bad buffs, but they're just more raw number increases. Raw numbers in important areas, but they're not the core problem. Not to overly criticize. I just want to see the discussion about fixing the fighter to move beyond raw numbers and instead to providing the figheter with more unique options and tools to use beyond "I hit it with my sword."
Those aren't bad buffs, but they're just more raw number increases. Raw numbers in important areas, but they're not the core problem. Not to overly criticize. I just want to see the discussion about fixing the fighter to move beyond raw numbers and instead to providing the figheter with more unique options and tools to use beyond "I hit it with my sword."
The biggest problem is that everyone has wildly different ideas on how to fix the problem. Number increases are the simplest and easiest to agree on. When we start providing actual class features it always ends up as, "Why aren't these just feats he can choose?"
Those aren't bad buffs, but they're just more raw number increases. Raw numbers in important areas, but they're not the core problem. Not to overly criticize.
No worries, I'm not offended. I just figured I'd start with the easy and simple solutions and we'd work from there. Also I edited the post like four times after posting it since it needed cleaned up and clarified in a lot of areas, lol.
I just want to see the discussion about fixing the fighter to move beyond raw numbers and instead to providing the figheter with more unique options and tools to use beyond "I hit it with my sword."
Which is definitely where I hope this conversation goes. I only knocked out the easy work first because it is so difficult to get people to agree on what a Fighter should get and be able to do beyond "I hit it with my sword."
EDIT: Ninja'd by GP.
Now the real work begins.
Simple fix, one I've suggested before: combine rogue with fighter. Instantly gives fighters non-combat capabilities and gives the rogue working combat ability. Add rogue talents and skill list and skill points onto the fighter. Sneak attack bonuses become options for either or both the fighter bonus feats or rogue talents.
If you're bothering to house - rule the fighter, why not fix the rogue too?
Simple fix, one I've suggested before: combine rogue with fighter. Instantly gives fighters non-combat capabilities and gives the rogue working combat ability. Add rogue talents and skill list and skill points onto the fighter. Sneak attack bonuses become options for either or both the fighter bonus feats or rogue talents.
If you're bothering to house - rule the fighter, why not fix the rogue too?
Rogue talents... interesting. Even the suggestion of 8 skill points with the "best" skill list is interesting. People would cry, "but how is the Fighter more skilled than the Ranger?" and to that I would answer, "well the Fighter has to rely on mundane expertise alone. Rangers get spells to do some of their work for them, so a Fighter's baseline training in mundane activities can only be expected to be higher than a Ranger's."
I'm not sure you'd be able to call the resulting class a "Fighter" anymore, but the resulting class could work and work well. Combine the thought with getting rid of Disable Device's trapfinding glass ceiling and it's a solid class.
Rewriting a core class is a fairly major house rule, so why not address both of the major complaints with the game?
Rogues/thieves have always struggled in combat; fighters struggle out of combat. Back in 1st edition, the only effective thief was a multiclassed one (fighter or mage or both; thief/clerics were penalised). Now the fighter is frequently outclassed by barbarians and paladins at combat so either those need nerfing or the fighter needs other bonuses.
One thought that came up in another fighter thread was for any class feature involving a numerical bonus keying off of the bravery class feature. In my head I imagined the Fighter gaining a secondary theme of courage. At his base the fighter has courage as a class feature (a bad one) so why not make that work for him. In one third party package I saw a feat that granted the bravery bonus to initiative. I liked this, flavoring the fighter's braveryin making him unflinching and ready to fight first.
Another thing to look at is things like this other third party product called 'The Combatant'. I'd link it but I'm on a tablet so it's a pain to do, but it's a single class product for a dollar on Paizo's store if you want to pick it up. Basically it's the fighter only instead of weapon/armor training it gets combat styles. Combat styles grant new abilities if it has a certain amount of feats within that style and uses weapons in that style.
just adding that in there.
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To increase the fighter versatility and resolve a little bit of the out-off-combat problem, I have made my own rework. It's essentially a fusion of most fighter archetypes into one class, allowing more possibilities and to combine some unique abilities together. I also gived the fighter 4 skills point per level and a better Reflex (even if I understand it could also be Will instead).
So long as the thread is going this direction, I guess it's a legitimate excuse for me to buckle down and finish my Hero class (A flexible replacement for the Fighter, Rogue, and Monk classes.)
Expect it sometime this evening.
I was going to write a classes called Hero, that covered more or less what you said, but is very easy to play, flexible with very few permanent choices to make.
To increase the fighter versatility and resolve a little bit of the out-off-combat problem, I have made my own rework. It's essentially a fusion of most fighter archetypes into one class, allowing more possibilities and to combine some unique abilities together. I also gived the fighter 4 skills point per level and a better Reflex (even if I understand it could also be Will instead).
This is really well done. It's not perfect, but it's a LOT better than the standard CRB version.
I gave Fighters more skills, some Tome of Battle stuff, and a few other added things. It was never intended to make them a good class, but make it at least sort of rewarding through 20 levels when combined with Dungeon crasher, Hit and Run Fighter, and/or Zhentarim Fighter alternate class features and PHB 2 feats.
This was for 3E, btw, not PF. Partly because the final version came out before PF and the previous versions had been tweaked for at least 3 years before that.
As in the PHB, except:
• Class Skills: Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Perform (Weapon Drill) (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str)
• Skill points = 4 + Int modifier
• Class Disciplines: DM, IH, SS, SD, TC, WR
• Fighter levels count as full initiator levels for determining what stances and maneuvers can be chosen by the character for the above disciplines. Also, Fighter bonus feats spent on Martial Study (as well as maneuvers learned with the Martial Study class feature) do not count against the standard limit of how many times the feat may be taken (3).
• Weapon Aptitude: Fighters can re-designate which weapons their weapons-related feats apply to each morning, see Warblade for more information.
• 5th level – Versatile Learning: Ability scores count as 4 points higher and base save bonuses count as 2 points higher when meeting the prerequisites of a feat on the Fighter bonus feat list. This applies even if not actually acquiring the feat with a bonus feat slot.
• 11th level – Shattering Strike: The Fighter may use a standard action to take a single attack at his highest attack bonus. This attack disregards 1 point of DR of the opponent per Fighter level. The effective DR does not go below zero.
• 17th level – Greater Shattering Strike: Any attack the Fighter makes treats the opponent’s DR as 1 point lower per two Fighter levels, not reducing effective DR below zero. The Fighter may still use a standard action to do a single attack at the higher DR reduction rate.
• Martial Study: At levels 3, 9, 15, and 19 a Fighter may learn one maneuver for which he meets the prerequisites (he may still take Martial Study as a Fighter bonus or regular feat). In addition, at each of these levels, the Fighter gains one maneuver readied. This allows the Fighter to ready maneuvers he has learned through Martial Study, so that he can recover them mid-battle as a swift action followed immediately by a melee attack or as a standard action, following all rules for recovering maneuvers (including the restriction of not using a maneuver that round). Note, for a Fighter with more maneuvers known than he can ready (and assuming no martial adept levels), any maneuvers not readied are available once per encounter, as normal. If the Fighter has actual martial adept levels, he instead adds to his total maneuvers readied, and may select a number of maneuvers to ready from his Martial Study feats equal to the bonus readied maneuvers this feature grants (i.e., 1 at Fighter 3, etc...). In this case, all the multiclassed Fighter’s maneuvers are recovered by whatever method the martial adept class follows. If the Fighter has more than one martial adept class, he must choose which one he will add the extra readied maneuver to each time he gains this feature.
• Advanced Training: At levels 7 and 13 the Fighter learns special tactics and skills. He may choose any one Tactical or Weapon Style feat for which he meets the pre-requisites.
Fighter variants:
“Gladiator” Variant
• d8 HD
• Remove Armor Proficiency: Medium and Heavy, and Tower Shield Proficiency. Gladiators are proficient with the net.
• Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Perform (all) (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Swim (Str).
• Skill points = 6 + Int modifier
• Class Disciplines: DW, IH, SS, SH, SD, TC, WR
• Change “good” save from Fortitude to Reflex
• Confident Defense: A gladiator can add his charisma modifier to AC as a dodge bonus while wearing light or no armor, to a maximum amount equal to his class levels. In order to gain this benefit, the gladiator must be fighting within 60 feet of three or more conscious allies whom he has line of effect to. He can also gain this benefit when fighting in front of a crowd or audience if the audience has a status of “Friendly” or better with him (see Diplomacy skill). Improving this status is a use of Perform (Weapon Drill) as normal, in addition to any other conditional effects the DM allows.
• Starting with 2nd level bonus feat, a gladiator may choose to gain +1d6 Sneak Attack instead of a bonus feat at each even level (need not always be sneak attack).
• 5th level – A gladiator gains Evasion, but only while wearing light or no armor. A helpless Gladiator loses the benefit of Evasion. This replaces the standard fighter’s 5th level ability.
• At 11th and 17th levels, a Special Ability is gained from the Rogue Special Ability list. Alternatively, Uncanny Dodge (or Improved Uncanny Dodge if you already have the former) may be chosen. This replaces the standard Fighter’s 11th and 17th level abilities.
“Court Champion” Variant
• Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spot (Wis).
• Change “good” save from Fortitude to Will.
• Class Disciplines: DS, DM, IH, SS, SD, WR
• At 5th level, the Fighter gains an Animal Companion, as a Druid, but any animal he chooses must be suitable as a mount. At levels 11 and 17, the animal companion gains a bonus feat of any kind it can meet the requirements for. The Court Champion variant loses the level 5, 11, and 17 class features.
Thank you Zieganger ^^
In fact, this is a work in progress. Each time I have an idea about a fighter themed ability, a add it as a Martial Training or Fighter Talent.
These two list also give to the fighter something to stand out except having more feat. If you want to build the beefiest of all the tanks, a fighter can now take fighter talents to increase his saving throws against many conditions, and can be almost as good as a barbarian in this field, with greater AC. If you want to be the iconic dwarf blacksmith, you can now do it, and be as good as a wizard to craft magic arms and armour. If you want to build the perfect switch hitter, you can do it now without dividing your feats in two tree.
This is not perfect, but the keys here are :
1) reinforcing the iconic fighter abilities (the reason why I'm not so much into the class fusions)
2) giving the fighter more combat versatility, both defensively and offensively (saves, Ac, switch hitting, manoeuvres, etc.)
3) opening some flavorful and attractive fighter-only abilities (outside of hitting harder or better)
4) opening some minor built-in multiclassing through archetypes and class ability to widen the options
5) making these changes without pushing all fighters into the same way (reason why I'm so much into static raw number increases)
Also, I'm curious Zieganger : according to you, what are the best way to improve my rework ? If you can help me to pinpoint its weaknesses, It will greatly help me to improve my work.
Thank you Zieganger ^^
In fact, this is a work in progress. Each time I have an idea about a fighter themed ability, a add it as a Martial Training or Fighter Talent.
These two list also give to the fighter something to stand out except having more feat. If you want to build the beefiest of all the tanks, a fighter can now take fighter talents to increase his saving throws against many conditions, and can be almost as good as a barbarian in this field, with greater AC. If you want to be the iconic dwarf blacksmith, you can now do it, and be as good as a wizard to craft magic arms and armour. If you want to build the perfect switch hitter, you can do it now without dividing your feats in two tree.
This is not perfect, but the keys here are :
1) reinforcing the iconic fighter abilities (the reason why I'm not so much into the class fusions)
2) giving the fighter more combat versatility, both defensively and offensively (saves, Ac, switch hitting, manoeuvres, etc.)
3) opening some flavorful and attractive fighter-only abilities (outside of hitting harder or better)
4) opening some minor built-in multiclassing through archetypes and class ability to widen the options
5) making these changes without pushing all fighters into the same way (reason why I'm so much into static raw number increases)Also, I'm curious Zieganger : according to you, what are the best way to improve my rework ? If you can help me to pinpoint its weaknesses, It will greatly help me to improve my work.
Ziegander, good sir. :P
Anyway, without going into a full review of every available option (which I will do at a later date), on first glance I don't understand the thematic or mechanical different between Fighter Talent and Martial Training. The function and design space of these abilities seem to be exactly the same, except that Talents can't be taken more than once, while some of the Martial Training options can (but not all, maybe)? So that would be my first piece of advice: tighten up what is and isn't a Fighter Talent and a Martial Training, and make sure that the two operate in fundamentally distinct ways. Otherwise you might as well write Fighter Talent on every class level, and that's just boring to look at.
Oh, also, it might be a bit unbalanced to give a flexible feat slot every even class level, and it might not. But a flex feat and a non-flex feat at 2nd level is just jarring. I'm of the camp that if you're giving Fighters flexible feats it's gotta be all or nothing. Having two combat feats you can't trade out and a handful that you can is awkward.
That's all for now!
Swift Combat: At 6th level the Fighter can move and full attack once per day. This increases to twice per day at 11th level, and three times per day at 16th level.
My players found out about the swift runner's shirt, and the fighter, barbarian, and ranger all bought one. It just seems like a good item to use. I based this ability off of the way my player's use theirs. The item is really cheap, 1000 gp, for a extra move action once a day.
Swift Combat: At 6th level the Fighter can move and full attack once per day. This increases to twice per day at 11th level, and three times per day at 16th level.
My players found out about the swift runner's shirt, and the fighter, barbarian, and ranger all bought one. It just seems like a good item to use. I based this ability off of the way my player's use theirs. The item is really cheap, 1000 gp, for a extra move action once a day.
I know I can't be the only one that would hate to see any sort of daily mechanic on the Fighter class. If it were me, I'd write the class feature like so (mind you, mine is certainly a bit more powerful):
Swift Combatant (Ex): Starting at 6th level a fighter can make a second attack when using the attack action, at the end of a charge, or when making an attack of opportunity. This attack is made at a -5 penalty to the attack roll. At 11th level, a fighter can make a third attack at a -10 penalty, and at 16th level, he can make a fourth attack at a -15 penalty.
If the fighter's attack action, charge attack, or attack of opportunity would gain some special benefit or trigger some special effect, then only the first attack he makes during that action gains the benefit or triggers the effect.
Go to the CRB and find all of the "Fighter only" feats and other features. Go through every book and eliminate those from every other class. While you are at it, do the same for every thing else in the CRB. If it is limited in the CRB, why add something in a later book that changes that?
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To increase the fighter versatility and resolve a little bit of the out-off-combat problem, I have made my own rework. It's essentially a fusion of most fighter archetypes into one class, allowing more possibilities and to combine some unique abilities together. I also gived the fighter 4 skills point per level and a better Reflex (even if I understand it could also be Will instead).
Do you allow fighters to take combat bonus feats instead of talents?
@ Ascalaphus
The fighter talents includes some specific feats merged together (as Master Craftsman AND Craft Magic Arms and Armor in the same talent) and also 2 flexible feat mechanic.
The fighter isn't forced to follow the feat path, but If he does, he gains more for his money in term of versatility.
The first feat mechanic is a talent that provides a «feat slot» that hallow the fighter to «prepare» a diffrent feat each day if he want.
«Today we fight kobolds....Cleave could be usefull....Tomorrow i will get Improved disarm against that nasty duellist. »
The second feat mechanics is a talent that give 2 feat, but that can only be used in different stance. I generally use this as a switch hitting improvement. For exemple, a level 8 fighter with 4 stance talent could get : A) Power Attack, Furious Focus, Improved sunder, Greater Sunder
B) Deadly aim, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot
Switching for a stance to an other is a move action, then a swift at 10th level.
It can also be used to switch between Defensive or Offensive focus or even to do a «anti-monster» and «anti-humanoid» build.
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3) Dealing with spells and magic in general.
This is the big one. The one that has to be addressed. The two classes that seem to be the cream of the non-caster classes have ways of dealing with magic.
Paladins have good will and save bonuses. They get charisma as a bonus on saves. They have lots of good reasons to pump charisma. Lay on hands can be a swift action on themselves, and they can remove a lot of debilitating conditions even if they fail a save, in addition to the hp's that give them a lot more effective hp's than a fighter.
Barbarians get bonuses to saves from Superstiton (face it, it is a class feature, just like beast totem and invulnerable rager), and fort and will bonuses from rage. If they fail a save they can get another from Eater of Magic, or if bad enough they can Spell Sunder whatever the problem is. This is guaranteed to work due to Strength Surge.
Well, Fighters are the only ones that qualify for Disruptive and Spellbreaker-- trouble is, you have to be threatening the caster when they try to cast for those to work, and 5-foot steps exist.
I think a few more combat feats that have "X-level fighter" as a prereq and specifically act against magic or spellcasting could go a surprisingly long way here. Here's one off the top of my head.
Insert Name of Feat Here
Prereq: 3rd-level Fighter, Spellcraft 1 rank.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify a spell as it is being cast. In addition, you get a +2 to AC and a +2 on all savings throws against spells you have identified.
Maybe an "improved" version down the line that grants attack/damage bonuses against spellcasters whose spells you have saved against?
I don't remember where it was, but there was a user on these boards who had a fighter fix that included several occupation esk choices that had some role playing caveats to them. Each one added different class skills to the fighter's list, and the class itself had 4+skills per level. It reminded me of the Cavalier Orders and I thought it was a really good fix, but I have no idea where the link is and my search fu is weak today.
Just noticed that with just my suggestions in the OP the Fighter is given a slight nudge to important combat numbers at every class level. +1 to atk/dmg at 1st level (among other benefits), +1 to CMB/CMD/Init/Perception at 2nd level, +1 to AC/Max Dex at 3rd level, +1 to BAB for the purposes of combat feat qualification at 4th level, and repeat until 20. Every bonus scales up to +5.
At 1st, 2nd, and every even level thereafter, the Fighter gets a bonus feat, so the only levels remaining to be buffed are 3rd + odd levels until 19th, that way the Fighter gets a bonus + something interesting at every level.
These are the levels where we should concentrate on giving the Fighter unique abilities that no one else can replicate, and I would say, rather than focusing on raw power or raw speed, we should be focusing on giving him things he can do that are based on raw skill.
What about this?
Skilled Maneuverability (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Fighter may use an attack roll to avoid attacks of opportunity for moving through threatened areas in the same way that other characters might use the Acrobatics skill.
Fighter needs versatility and out of combat abilities more than he needs higher combat bonuses.
I did just have a thought, though. Now that War domain clerics and any half-elf caster (Paragon Surge) can spontaneously gain a needed feat...
Why the hell don't FIGHTERS have such an ability? It seems so simple, so basic. So easy to add to the class...
Fighter needs versatility and out of combat abilities more than he needs higher combat bonuses.
I did just have a thought, though. Now that War domain clerics and any half-elf caster (Paragon Surge) can spontaneously gain a needed feat...
Why the hell don't FIGHTERS have such an ability? It seems so simple, so basic. So easy to add to the class...
The Brawler has an ability that works like this in the ACG playtest. It's almost upsetting to read.
The Brawler has an ability that works like this in the ACG playtest. It's almost upsetting to read.Fighter needs versatility and out of combat abilities more than he needs higher combat bonuses.
I did just have a thought, though. Now that War domain clerics and any half-elf caster (Paragon Surge) can spontaneously gain a needed feat...
Why the hell don't FIGHTERS have such an ability? It seems so simple, so basic. So easy to add to the class...
Ouch. I'm still new to the Pathfinder ruleset, so that's something I wasn't aware of. By Pelor, that is pretty hard to swallow. A character can only have combat versatility if he's unarmed.
I've been giving Fighters the ability to switch combat feats once per day with an hour of practice for at least a year now over on the GITP boards and people are telling that it's too complicated. Yes, it is complicated, but if Clerics are getting it, and if pugilist Fighter remakes are getting it, then a g#*-d~*ned Fighter had surely well better get it.
@Stream: Yes, it would be nice for a Fighter to have out-of-combat abilities, but, then, what OOC abilities does a Barbarian have? It's just not easy to come up with these sorts of things given the Pathfinder ruleset outside the scope of spells.
The Brawler having something like that doesn't bother me. It's sort of a partial fighter, I've heard. And it sucks nearly as bad as the monk, I've also heard.
It bothers me that it's all of the casters that have feats-on-demand.
As for Fighter out-of-combat....there's not much you CAN do without upsetting someone for making it "not a fighter anymore." I just settled for 4 + int skill points and a better list. Lore Warden largely takes care of that in PF. As for Barbarian... "People think barbarians only good in fights, but there are many hidden benefits to class in social situations." :D
This seems kind of fun. I decided to throw together a fighter fix myself for the fun of it. Here it is.
I tried to give them interesting abilities that aren't feats, but don't feel outlandish. I made changes to pretty much all their class abilities as well to help make them better. I also shotgunned it and just threw all my ideas at it to see what would stick. This is by no means a must keep everything I added kind of deal.
I think the fighter needs 4 skills points. Actually I think no class should have a base of 2 skill points.
Being able to change the weapon a feat such as "weapon focus" is based around would be nice.
Having a better will save would be nice.
Being able to ignore so many points of DR as you level up would be nice also.
The ability to change out ___ number of feats each day just like casters do spells would be nice also, or he can just get a class feature that gives him access to feats that he can change every day. The other feats would be permanent just like any other class.
Pounce in some form.
That would be ok for me.
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When you take the classic 4 classes (Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric) and compare their ability to provide meaningful solutions to encounters, you can see a great disparity between the classes that have magic, and those that don't.
- Versatility: Casters have an ever changing and expanding list of things they can do. Whether it's memorized spells, access to magical effects in item form, or other abilities, they are not locked into their choices and are able to adjust to meet the demands of a situation.
- In and Out of Combat Roles: When looking at when and where they get to shine in their role, it seems like it's simply "all the time". Between an easily expanding list of options (spells) and the above mentioned versatility not locking them in, they can be useful at pretty much any time. And if they aren't useful right because they are missing something, it's not a matter of half a dozen levels before they can shore up that hole. For most, it's simply a matter of resting for a day.
If we are talking about bringing the Fighter class up to a level where he's competitive and meaningful in greater range of roles or encounters (essentially, bringing him closer to the higher Tiers), here's what I'd do:
I've posted it in another thread, but it's pretty simple: A list of feats that can be chosen on a daily basis, and the ability to "on-the-spot" select something (leaving an option open to select later).
Combat Versatility (Ex): A fighter is always training in a wide array of combat tactics. At 1st level, the fighter gains a bonus feat that can be selected from those listed as combat feats. Due to his diverse training, a fighter does not need to meet the ability score or feat requirements for these feats. Instead the fighter gains all feats included in the prerequisites if he does not already have them; the only exception is that style feats require the fighter having improved unarmed strike from a source other than combat versatility.
Once a day, if a fighter can spend an hour training, he can change the feat for another which he qualifies. At every even level after 1st a fighter gains an additional bonus combat feat that can be selected and retrained in this manner. A fighter can choose to leave these feat choices open. If he does, he can select a feat choice at a later time as a full-round action.
Feats gained by Combat Versatility cannot be used as prerequisites for feats gained by other means (such as regular feats gained every odd level).
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Extra skills and skill points are a nice idea, however there can be more to just skill ranks that can give the fighter things to do outside of combat.
First though, I think we are missing a skill: Tactics. Most people have been using something like a profession skill (soldier, etc) to cover what should amount to a knowledge skill. A general or leader shouldn't necessarily have lived a hard rugged life of being a soldier or mercenary to know how to apply combat tactics or run a war.
Knowledge (tactics)
Field of Study combat techniques, soldiering, warfare, weaponry
Tasks/DC
Recognize Ambush or act in surprise round .. opposed skill (stealth or tactics)
Create Ambush .. opposed skill (perception or tactics)
Determine combat prowess (CR is weaker, equal or stronger) .. 10 + CR or opposed bluff
In addition to this though, I think the fighter could use more.. "things to do", when combat isn't going on.
Personally, I like the idea of a fighter selecting a particular field of interest that has an obvious cross-over from combat to non-combat roles.
Career (Ex): A fighter is able to find ways to apply his in combat training in an out of combat career. A fighter must choose his career upon taking his first level. Once this choice is made it cannot be changed, short of retraining.
Craftsman: Reliable weaponry and equipment is the staple of any warrior. This fighter knows his way around tools, and is able to craft and repair items with great skill. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in craft (armor), craft (bows), craft (weapons), and one additional craft skill (metalwork, clothing, stone, jewelry, woodwork, etc). If the fighter has or gains the Gunsmithing feat, he includes craft (firearms). The fighter measures progress in gold instead of silver when using these skills.
Additionally, the fighter gains the Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level and Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat at 5th level, using his fighter level as his caster level for purposes of item creation prerequisites, and must use a craft skill in place of spellcraft for creation checks. The fighter can only craft wondrous items that can be created using craft skills (gained by this career or from normal skill points).
Engineer: Tools of combat expand easily to tools of war, including creation of siege weapons or vehicles. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in craft (siege engines), craft (traps), knowledge (engineering), profession (siege engineer) and profession (driver). If the fighter has or gains the Gunsmithing feat, he includes craft (firearms). He also gains the Siege Engineer feat if campaign applicable.
At 3rd level, the fighter is treated as having the Craft Wondrous Items feat and a caster level equal to his fighter level for purposes of crafting magical traps. At 5th level, the fighter is treated as having the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and a caster level equal to his fighter level for purposes of crafting magical firearms and siege engines, and magically treating buildings, gates and walls. At 7th level, the fighter can make any driving checks using his fighter level in place of skill ranks no matter the vehicle used (he still uses the appropriate ability score modifier for the skill replaced).
Exploiter: Knowledge is a powerful tool, and knowing your enemy can be critical in combat. This fighter keeps abreast of crucial information on those he seeks to conquer or kill, be it monster or organization. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in knowledge (local) and treats it as a class skill. He also gains a bonus equal to half his fighter levels (minimum 1) towards gather information checks, and knowledge checks to identify a monster or organization, and can make those checks untrained.
If the fighter learns enough information about a specific target, he can gain further advantage against them. The fighter must make a gather information or knowledge check to research about the individual person or creature, with a DC of 15 + the creature's CR. Success grants the fighter a +2 competence bonus to attack and skill checks, for a number of rounds equal to fighter's levels in the fighter class. These rounds do not need to be consecutive, and may be used at any time. At 11th level, this bonus increases to +4. The fighter can only be prepared against a single creature at a time; he loses any remaining rounds when researching a new creature.
Guard: Guarding key objects, protecting important people, or simply keeping lookout, all require training beyond the martial. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in perception and sense motive, and treats sense motive as a class skill. The fighter does not suffer penalties for being distracted or asleep and can wake himself in reaction to a sound. He also requires only 2 hours of rest to recover from fatigue, does not become exhausted by performing further action that would cause fatigue.
At 3rd level, the fighter gains the ability to follow tracks using the perception skill in place of survival. He does not incur a penalty for moving normal speed when tracking in this manner. At 5th level, the fighter rolls both perception and sense motive skills against bluff, disguise and sleight of hand opposed checks, taking the highest result. At 7th level, the fighter no longer incurs any penalties for moving while tracking with the perception skill. At 9th level, the fighter can use the sense motive skill to detect if someone is under the influence of magic that alters their social abilities; such as spells that alter or improve the use of bluff, diplomacy, disguise, or intimidate. The DC is 15 + the level of the spell. Success only lets you know that the magic exists, a knowledge (arcana) check is required to know what spell it is.
Military: Soldiering is obviously combat-oriented, however there are a lot of aspects beyond the actual fighting in which this fighter trains. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in knowledge (tactics) and profession (soldier).
Also, the fighter can gain a number of benefits if he has chance to plan ahead, and may confer these benefits to others. If the fighter spends 10 minutes preparing a backpack or other container, the container can hold an additional 50% space, and the items inside only count as 75% weight towards encumbrance (they still have the same actual weight). Items can also be retrieved as a swift action or a move action, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Anyone using the prepared container gains these benefits.
During the training for his combat versatility, he can train others along with him to be proficient with a single weapon and type of armor in which the fighter is proficient. He can train a number of people up to 3 + his fighter level.
In addition, the fighter can spend 1 hour making a plan of action, granting benefits for an upcoming encounter. He must be aware of the environment or layout he will be traveling in, either from prior knowledge, scouting reports, a detailed map, or magical clairvoyance. The fighter, and anyone with him during the hour of preperation, gains a +2 competence bonus to attack rolls and skill checks for a number of rounds equal to one plus half his fighter levels. These rounds do not need to be consecutive, they can be used at any time, within 24 hours. At 7th level, the fighter grants an additional move or swift action each round. At 11th level, the fighter adds an extra attack at full base attack bonus when using the full attack action for each round.
Survivalist: Staying alive is paramount, and a smart fighter looks beyond just the next fight. Self-reliance and staying alive in the harshest environs is this fighter's focus. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in knowledge (nature), knowledge (geography), and survival, and treats knowledge (nature) and knowledge (geography) as class skills. The fighter also ignores armor check penalties for climb and swim checks, and gains a bonus equal to half his fighter level (minimum 1) towards both climb and swim checks, checks to avoid getting lost, as well as saves against any environmental effects.
At 3rd level, the fighter ignores penalties for moving normal speed when tracking with the survival skill. At 7th level, the fighter no longer incurs any penalties for moving while tracking with the survival skill.
Trainer: Animals are often a great asset, however they can have an ever greater application outside of battle. The fighter gains a skill rank per level of fighter in Handle Animal, and can train animals far quicker than normal, measuring time in days rather than weeks.
Also, the fighter can grant special training that can boost a specific animal beyond it's normal capabilities. The fighter gains a training pool equal to 3 plus his fighter level. By spending a week training a specific animal, he can grant that animal the Elite Training ability, which grants 3 additional tricks known, and allows the animal to be granted additional class levels by the fighter. The fighter must spend 1 hour per day (during his training for Combat Versatility) to assign the class levels, and to maintain the animal's training. The fighter can assign a single level of warrior or expert to an elite trained animal per training pool point (up to his fighter level). The fighter can have as many elite trained animals as he wants, but he must divide the training pool class levels amongst all the animals.
The animal keeps the extra levels for 24 hours, and loses elite training if not maintained for 1 week.
Creatures that can be trained in this way are those that can normally be trained by the Handle Animal skill to gain tricks.
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Those cover the bigger issues with the Fighter class. And it certainly changes the class in comparison to the other non-casters (Barbarian, Cavalier, Monk and Rogue). Each of the others could stand for their own changes to bring them up to this kind of level, so I'm not going to spend an iota of time on comparing to those classes.
For other Fighter class specific issues, here's my thoughts...
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The class does not have any built in option that would help in a world of magic, and it really should.
A minor fix: bravery really should apply to more than just fear. Even boosting it to confusion, fear and pain effects would help.
A bigger fix would be to give the fighter class a better bonus towards a wider range of effects, or give temporary immunities. Since there's been a lot of "big bonus" stuff in the other classes, to be different I went with immunities...
Bulwark (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a fighter trains his mind to ignore that which would deter him. He can spend a standard action to gain a bulwark, granting him immunity to certain conditions. The bulwark lasts for 1 round, but can be maintained each round afterward as a swift or move action. The bulwark only prevents the effects of the conditions, the effects resume if the duration of lasts longer than the fighter maintains the immunity. A fighter gains bulwarks as he levels, but may only select a single bulwark at a time.
Upon reaching 8th level, a fighter can activate a bulwark as a move action. At 12th level, a fighter can activate and maintain two bulwarks at once, however it requires a full round action to activate. At 16th level, a fighter can activate a single bulwark as a swift action, or as an immediate action. If used as an immediate action, this counts as maintaining that single bulwark for his turn. Upon reaching 20th level, a fighter can activate and maintain three bulwarks, using a full round action to activate.
If the fighter receives a critical hit or sneak attack damage, he must spend an activation equivalent action to maintain his bulwark on his next turn, or the bulwark ends.
Fearless: At 4th level, a fighter can become immune to the shaken, frightened, cowering and panicked conditions.
Tireless: At 4th level, a fighter can become immune to the fatigued and exhausted conditions.
Staunch Gut: At 8th level, a fighter can become immune to the sickened and nauseated conditions.
Focused: At 8th level, a fighter can become immune to the fascinated condition.
Unfazed: At 12th level, a fighter can become immune to the dazed condition.
Relentless: At 12th level, a fighter can become immune to the staggered condition.
Clarity: At 16th level, a fighter can become immune to the confusion condition.
Stubborn: At 16th level, a fighter can become immune to the stunned condition.
Unstoppable: At 20th level, a fighter can become immune to the disabled and unconscious conditions.
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Armor and Weapon Training are nice ideas, but don't scale very well. At the later levels, when you should be getting more awesome and powerful, the bonuses being added are so minimal it's almost imperceptible.
Each one needs a tweak to give it more uses up into the higher levels.
Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum -4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
If a fighter is wielding a shield he gains a bonus to his Reflex save equal to the shield bonus (including any enhancement bonus).
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed and has no penalty for sleeping while wearing light or medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter gains these same benefits when wearing heavy armor.
At 11th level, a fighter applies the enhancement bonus of magical armor towards touch AC. At 15th level, a fighter treats the enhancement bonus from magical armor as deflection bonus, applying it towards incorporeal creatures as well.
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Armor Mastery (Ex): At 19th level, a fighter gains DR 5/- whenever he is wearing armor or using a shield. Unlike most damage reduction, it stacks with any other damage reduction; it is applied after damage has been reduced by any other damage reduction.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 1st level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. A fighter is proficient with all weapons in the selected weapon group. Upon selecting a weapon group, a fighter gains a specific combat ability and magical effect (if the weapon used is already magical) that he may use with all appropriate proficient weapons.
Every four levels thereafter (5th, 9th, 13th and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons, and may select an additional weapon group, gaining the proficiencies and benefits.
Every day, when training his combat versatility, he may select a single weapon from one of his weapon groups. He gains Weapon Focus with that weapon as a bonus feat. He also gains the following bonus feats for the selected weapon at the levels when he'd qualify for them: Weapon Specialization (4th), Greater Weapon Focus (8th), Greater Weapon Specialization (12th), Penetrating Strike (12th), and Greater Penetrating Strike (16th).
In addition, at 5th level the fighter gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with all proficient weapons. This bonus increases to +2 at 9th level, +3 at 13th level, and +4 at 17th level. This bonus applies to combat maneuver checks using that weapon, and combat maneuver defense when applied against the weapon (such as disarm or sunder maneuvers).
Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):
AXES
A fighter may use the Cleave feat on the first attack of a full attack with any melee slashing weapon. If the weapon is magical, it is treated as having the might cleaving enhancement.
Weaponry
Bardiche, battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, hooked axe, knuckle axe, light pick, mattock, orc double axe, pata, and throwing axe.
BLADES, HEAVY
A fighter may hold and use any melee weapon with two hands to gain the benefits normally given to two-handed weapons (such as 50% extra strength and power attack damage bonus). If the weapon is magical, it deals an extra 1d6 damage in kinetic force (same damage type as the weapon itself) when used two-handed. As weapon damage, it is multiplied on a Vital Strike attack.
Weaponry
Bastard sword, chakram, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, falcata, falchion, greatsword, great terbutje, katana, khopesh, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, shotel, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword.
BLADES, LIGHT
A fighter may treat any one-handed melee weapon held in the off hand as a light weapon for purposes of two weapon fighting, and treats any weapon wielded in the offhand as a blocking, disarm and distracting weapon. If the main hand weapon is magical, then the off hand weapon is treated as magical and shares the same enhancement bonus.
Weaponry
Bayonet, butterfly sword, dagger, gladius, kama, kerambit, kukri, pata, quadrens, rapier, short sword, sica, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, and wakizashi.
BOWS
A fighter can add Strength to damage with all drawn projectile weapons (bows and crossbows), treat as having the adaptive enhacemnt. If the weapon is magical, it is treated as having the distance enhancement.
Weaponry
Composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow.
CLOSE
A fighter may use any melee weapon in a grapple, or in tight spaces (such as when swallowed whole). When used this way, the weapon deals damage as one size lower. If the weapon is magical, a successful attack with the weapon automatically catches onto the target allowing an automatic grapple attempt that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A fighter can choose to not go ahead with the grapple.
Weaponry
Bayonet, brass knuckles, dan bong, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, sap, scizore, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart.
CROSSBOWS
A fighter can cause greater damage with projectile weapons with a lined up shot. When the fighter uses Vital Strike, he adds all damage that would normally multiply on a critical hit as extra damage. If the weapon is magical, it is treated as having the seeking enhancement.
Weaponry
Double crossbow, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, light crossbow, light repeating crossbow, and tube arrow shooter.
DOUBLE
A fighter may treat all two-handed weapons as double weapons, with the offhand attack dealing 1d4 20/x2 blunt damage (medium size). If the two-handed weapon or at least one end of a double weapon is magical, then the other end is treated as magical and shares the same enhancement bonus.
Weaponry
Dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword.
FIREARMS
A fighter can cause any projectile weapon to target touch AC against targets within 30 feet, however using the weapon in this way puts strain on it and causes the fragile condition (failure on a 1 or 2). The fighter can decide to shoot the weapon normally if desired. If the projectile weapon is magical, it is treated as having the thundering enhancement.
Weaponry
All one-handed, two-handed, and siege firearms.
FLAILS
A fighter treats any melee weapon as a trip weapon and can be used with Weapon Finesse. If the weapon is magical, it is treated as having the countering enhancement.
Weaponry
Chain spear, dire flail, double chained kama, flail, flying blade, heavy flail, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, meteor hammer, morningstar, nine-section whip, nunchaku, sansetsukon, scorpion whip, spiked chain, urumi, and whip.
HAMMERS
A fighter deals double damage while sundering with any blunt damage weapon. If the weapon is magical, it is able to make a free bull rush combat maneuver (that does not provoke an attack of opportunity) on a successful hit.
Weaponry
Aklys, battle aspergillum, club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, mere club, taiaha, tetsubo, wahaika, and warhammer.
MONK
If a fighter has the flurry of blows ki ability, they may use any melee or throwing weapon as part of their flurry of blows. If the weapon is magical, it is treated as having the ki focus enhancement. If it already has the ki focus enhancement, it is instead treated as having the ki intensifying enhancement.
Weaponry
Bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungshuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, tri-point double-edged sword, unarmed strike, urumi, and wushu dart.
NATURAL
A fighter may use any melee weapon wielded in hand as if it were a primary natural attack, and up to two melee weapons not held in hand (such as armor spikes) as secondary natural attacks, and may use them as part of a natural attack routine. If the weapons are magical, they are treated as having the huntsman enhancement.
Weaponry
Unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing. Treated as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
POLEARMS
A fighter may treat any melee weapon as if it has the reach weapon special (he may strike opponents 10 feet away, but not adjacent foes). A fighter must decide at the start of his turn if he is using it in this manner or not. If the weapon is magical, it is treated as having the menacing enhancement.
Weaponry
Bardiche, bec de corbin, bill, glaive, glaive-guisarme, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance, lucerne hammer, mancatcher, monk's spade, naginata, nodachi, ranseur, and tiger fork.
SPEARS
A fighter may use the brace weapon special with any melee weapon. If the weapon is magical, it gains the heartseeker enhancement.
Weaponry
Amentum, boar spear, javelin, harpoon, lance, longspear, pilum, shortspear, sibat, spear, tiger fork, and trident.
THROWN
A fighter may throw any melee weapon as if it were a throwing weapon, with a range increment of 10'. Also, if the weapon (or a normal throwing weapon) is magical, it is treated as having the returning enhancement.
Weaponry
Aklys, amentum, atlatl, blowgun, bolas, boomerang, chakram, club, dagger, dart, halfling sling staff, harpoon, javelin, lasso, kestros, light hammer, net, poisoned sand tube, rope dart, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear, starknife, throwing axe, throwing shield, trident, and wushu dart.
SIEGE ENGINES
A fighter may use larger than normal projectiles for all projectile weapons; treat damage as if one size larger. If the projectile weapon or it's amunition is magical, it deals double damage against objects and ignores hardness.
Weaponry
All siege engines
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Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter gains mastery of the weapon that he has trained with during his combat versatility training. He automatically confirms all critical threats and increases the damage multiplier by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, if the weapon is magical, he can call the weapon to hand as a swift or move action.
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Sorry about the length on this one. I should probably go ahead make this into a proper document file soon, since it's a lot of sweeping changes, it's kind of hard to grasp how it all comes together.
To put Fighter on par with other classes it really needs two things:
1. 4+ Int skill points per level, and a few more class skills.
2. A resource system. This is the biggie. As long as the fighter has no resource system, all of the fighter's abilities will be designed to be weaker than other classes' abilites by virtue of the fighter being able to use them unlimited times. With a resource system the fighter will be allowed to have more powerful abilities and will also finally be brought in line with every other class.
I took a deeper look at the third party product I was talking about earlier and I have to say that most of the most common fighter fixes are in that class. It looks like a pretty potent class especially if you allow it to take Fighter Talents from Rogue Genius' The Talented Fighter as combat feats. (since it's levels count as fighter levels out of the box.)
Seriously you can check it out for $1 and it has 44 pages of stuff including feats. Including a series of three feats that function as 'prepared feat' slots. Basically feats that you change out for another combat feat you qualify for each day.
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@Gunsmith Paladin: I like the "stare people into making concentration checks" thing.
Yeah, it was just something that popped into my head. Fighter's need something to help close the gap between themselves and casters. I originally thought to make it a move action to afflict someone with the shaken condition, but that wouldn't slow casters down in the least bit.
Ya know, now that I think about it, why doesn't shaken do anything really to casters? Why not just buff the shaken condition to cause casters to have to make concentration checks to cast spells? It'd help slow them down a bit and it makes sense. Your mental state is impaired, but you're still cool to bend the laws of the universe?
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Ya know, now that I think about it, why doesn't shaken do anything really to casters? Why not just buff the shaken condition to cause casters to have to make concentration checks to cast spells? It'd help slow them down a bit and it makes sense. Your mental state is impaired, but you're still cool to bend the laws of the universe?
Good question.
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I think the fighter needs 4 skills points. Actually I think no class should have a base of 2 skill points.
I'm quite fine with the primary spellcasters who currently have only a base of 2 staying that way.
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I think the fighter needs 4 skills points. Actually I think no class should have a base of 2 skill points.I'm quite fine with the primary spellcasters who currently have only a base of 2 staying that way.
I prefer giving 4+ to all classes that don't use Int as a casting stat. Clerics and Sorcerers need those skill points too.
Not giving them to Witches and Wizards is a bit contrived but it balances nicely.
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Ya know, now that I think about it, why doesn't shaken do anything really to casters? Why not just buff the shaken condition to cause casters to have to make concentration checks to cast spells? It'd help slow them down a bit and it makes sense. Your mental state is impaired, but you're still cool to bend the laws of the universe?
A lot of conditions are like this. I asked the same question about fatigued, exhausted, and slowed recently. I was trying to customize the basilisk's petrifying gaze to happen gradually over 3 rounds so (combined with the smeared blood fixing it) it could be a fun and less instantly deadly encounter. I was going to have it go Slowed-->Slowed+Exhausted-->Petrified.
Then I realized that'd do freaking nothing to the casters in the party, so I changed it to:
"You feel your skin tightening, your muscles resist the urge to move, your lips struggle to articulate words, even your mental faculties seem to be slowing down."
Exposure (failed save): Slowed, 25% cast/manifest failure
2nd round: Slowed, 50% cast/manifest failure, and Exhausted
3rd round: Petrified
Far, FAR too many conditions don't really hurt casters at all.
Yeah I've always found it a bit odd that Druids (and later Oracles) got 4+int while Sorcerers and Clerics get 2+intI think the fighter needs 4 skills points. Actually I think no class should have a base of 2 skill points.I'm quite fine with the primary spellcasters who currently have only a base of 2 staying that way.I prefer giving 4+ to all classes that don't use Int as a casting stat. Clerics and Sorcerers need those skill points too.
Not giving them to Witches and Wizards is a bit contrived but it balances nicely.
No, Clerics really don't need it, nor do Sorcs. And intentionally gimping the int-casters on skill points but boosting all the others just because "they'll have a bunch of skill points anyway" is just stupid. Shall we give the wizard a bonus on social skills? Don't they need the help to make up for not prioritizing charisma? *eyeroll*
Druids having 4+ is mainly due to them being expected to have some nature /scouting abilities, as reflected by their expanded class skills. I have no idea why Oracles have 4+, I guess some of the relevations lead to more of a semi-skill monkey than others.
Far, FAR too many conditions don't really hurt casters at all.
Very true, but we're getting off topic here. If we want to talk about status effects and skill points for casters then we need to start a new thread.
Move-or-attack screws over all the non-magic offense classes.
What needs to happen is a very simple change:
Each time your BAB gives you an iterative attack, you may add 5' of distance to your free 5' step when full attacking. The additional distance moved provokes attacks of opportunity normally, but the first 5' do not. You are still restricted by the 5' step rules for what terrain you can step in or through, and what squares you can end your movement in. You may make your attacks from any square you occupy when doing this step behavior.
No matter how much your "step distance" is increased, you may not use a "step" greater than half your Speed.
This allows a 6th level fighter to 10' step and full attack, an 11th level fighter to 15' step and full attack and a 16th level fighter to 20' step and full attack, provided the 16th level fighter can move 40 or more feet per round.
Monk movement speed bonuses add 10' to their Move action, and 5' to their "step" distance; this is in addition to the bonus "step" distance of the general rule. Monks may not make a "step" that's greater than half their movement speed.
The "pounce" ability gets rewritten to allow the creature to use a "step" distance equal to 3/4 of their full rated movement. "improved pounce" allows them to "step" an amount equal to one full move action, and "greater pounce" allows a double-move charge-and-full-attack.
Step Up would remain unchanged - you can follow for the first 5'.
Following Step allows you to use your full "step distance" rather than a flat 10'.
Step Up & Strike remains unchanged, since it's used with Following Step.
This would beef up the major melee fighter issue, and would also fix Monks. It sorta kinda helps Rogues, but allowing the Rogue a few Rogue talents that give them early access to "longer 5' steps" would help, as well as the ability to make those "steps" while concealed.
The other thing I'd do for rogues is convert sneak attack dice into a flat +3 bonus every 2 levels rather than a d6, and allow it to apply to any pair of weapon hits they make in a given round where they're striking from concealment, or striking from flanking. This means that the iconic two-weapon rogue actually works the way the implicit fiction says it should, and makes them situationally the most dangerous fighter in the fight. When they get iterative attacks, they can use sneak attack up to two more times per round.
To really "fix" the system, you need to redesign Pathfinder combat from the ground up.
Here's the redesign I used in my own RPG, with some tweaking to use D&D scale.
1) Everyone has an Init mod equal to half of their Dexterity score, rounded down. Other init mods in the game are unchanged.
2) At the start of a combat round, every player rolls 1d8 and adds it to their initiative modifier. This gives them their action point pool for this round.
3) Combat is a countdown. "Who has the highest Action count? 19? OK, pick your action."
4) Most spells take 3 action points per spell level to cast. Each casting "action" allows a separate 5' step. You make a concentration check every time someone hits you before the spell is completed.
5) Attacking with a weapon takes a certain number of action points. Each attack allows a 5' step as part of the action. The basic rule is that 2-handed weapons take 6 APs to make an attack, 1-handed weapons take 5 APs to make an attack, and light weapons take 3 APs to make an attack.
6) When your character would gain an iterative attack, the AP cost for making an attack drops by 1, but can never drop lower than 2.
7) There is no longer any such feat as Precise Shot or Improved Precise shot. However, ranged attackers can take the "Aim" action. Every action point spent in aiming prior to firing lets them remove one point of cover penalty from those two sources, or from range.
8) Each time a character would gain a +1 BAB, they may choose to take either +1 BAB or add +1 to their Init mod. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed.
9) When the action-count remaining in a round drops to 2 or 1, any actions costing 3 action points or less can be done in 2 or 1 action points.
10) Taking a Move action costs 2 action points. You may only make two Move actions in a round under normal circumstances. The "Fleet" feat allows you to take an additional Move action per round per time it's taken.
This system can be easily expanded to active defenses (using a shield as an action to block an incoming attack as an interrupt). While systemically it is more complex, in play it flows more smoothly than PF does because the combat scene is always updating, and there's less overhead of trying to figure out what I need to do to help everyone else in the party.
Ya know, now that I think about it, why doesn't shaken do anything really to casters? Why not just buff the shaken condition to cause casters to have to make concentration checks to cast spells? It'd help slow them down a bit and it makes sense. Your mental state is impaired, but you're still cool to bend the laws of the universe?A lot of conditions are like this. I asked the same question about fatigued, exhausted, and slowed recently. {Snip}
Far, FAR too many conditions don't really hurt casters at all.
Yes, and this, plus the move-or-attack dichotomy is why martials are always coming out weaker in mid-to-late level play.