Chaotic neutral party members


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


How do you deal with fellow party members who feel that stealing from the rest of the party is just good roleplaying? If their character is supposed to be a chaotic neutral thief, I can't really give any particular justification for why they'd deal fairly with the rest of the party, but it certainly isn't a fun style of play for me effectively having a party member working against me with nothing I can do about it.

The in character thing for us to do the when they were caught working against us would clearly be to kick them out, since we can't trust them well enough to work with them. But out of character that's effectively ending the campaign and possibly creating bad blood outside the game. Yet the player doesn't feel any out of character compunctions about working against us when we can't really react appropriately in character for out of character reasons.

Besides that, one plays the least optimized character, also for roleplaying reasons, so they contribute little mechanically. What should help make up for it is their skills, but for roleplaying reasons they either won't use them, or will use them for personal gain, making things harder for the rest of us. They'll run schemes and try to steal from people in town, and if they succeed that's their money, not the party's. Yet when the consequences come we'll all have to deal with them.

At the rate we've been going, it seems like everyone but those two will be well behind wealth by level guidelines. I have a few essential items I wanted for my build, for both mechanical and roleplaying reasons. I even invested in the item creation feat to ensure I'd be able to get them. If we got a normal amount of wealth, I should easily be able to get them well before the end of the campaign. But now I'm concerned that I'll get the cheapest a couple of levels higher than I'd hoped and not get the other two by the end of the campaign at all.


Be open and communicate out of game.

Tell them it's not cool and ask them why your character would do anything besides kick them out of the group, let them die from their own stupidity, or leave them in a hole in the desert. In regards to "it's what my character would do!" tell them that doesn't cut it and suggest that they alter their character's perspective from "screw everyone," to "screw everyone except my best friends, the party."

Liberty's Edge

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Okay, the first thing you do is confront him. Make it clear that this behavior is not fun for you. And then, if that is not effective on its own, inform him that if he keeps doing this 'because it's in-character' you will do the same as a party and IC get rid of his character one way or another.

If that conversation doesn't work, then follow up on your threat. If he's unwilling to compromise for out of character reasons, you should show him what that attitude leads to when you also adopt it. Perhaps his next character will play more nicely with others.


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Your thread title is misleading - this has nothing to do with the alignment of the party members and everything to do with the behaviour of the players. It is not a character issue, it is a player issue.

CN characters do not have to be disruptive IC, I've played many a CN who was a loyal party member. A CN thief doesn't need to steal from their companions, in the same way as a CN fighter doesn't need to kill their allies. CN is a valid party alignment, what is not valid is a player who decides that he wants to be an immature disruptive special snowflake.

The same problem was prevalent in the early days of gaming. I recall plenty of 1st Ed. CE Halfling thieves who played as backstabbing pickpockets and would murder party members in their beds. That was before maturity and experience kicked in, and I haven't seen that sort of behaviour at the table since the mid-1980s.

If the players really believe that screwing the party is good roleplaying then so is having the other party members react by handing them over to the authorities or administering local justice. If the player is really all about 'good roleplaying' then they should relish being tried and executed for thievery by their former companions....

Liberty's Edge

What does your GM think/do about this ? I feel that he should use his authority to nip this kind of jerk behaviour in the bud.


You need to direct that guy to a game of AD&D set in Krynn so he can play as a kender, then watch his PC get murdered.


To be blunt 90% of this CN=Jerk PCs is down to the lack of maturity in the player in which case nothing in character or out will make any difference. The best solution is just get rid of them as a player.

You can do all the in character stuff of leaving the PC behind, killing the PC, etc, etc.
Or be nice and kind and explain that their behaviour unfun for you I would guess they'll have a hissy-fit saying that you're ruining their fun, blah blah blah... but the problem is the player.

If a friend then you could explain that until they stop acting a tool they aren't welcome. If not you owe them nothing.


The idea of "CN = I must steal from anyone I encounter and jump off bridges... just cause." is analogous to "LG = I must never kill anything, ever." It's the most shallow, minimal-effort manner of roleplay. Mind you, it's still a form of roleplay... just poor and shallow form. Remind him that if stealing from his partymates is something he does "because he's roleplaying his alignment", he should be ready for them to roleplay his actions by beating him up and leaving him for dead... at best.

Just as Good doesn't have to let everything live and Evil doesn't have to kill everything just for the sake of being Evil, and Lawful doesn't mean you pedantically obey the letter of the law for whatever locality you visit, Chaotic doesn't need to be gibbering insane or a kleptomaniac. CN is primarily driven by his pride to just do what he wants so ask him this; does his character want to steal anything and everything not nailed down? If so, that driving "want" was his choice as the player. The driving "want" wasn't dictated by the alignment; the alignment only means that whatever he puts in that "want" position is what drives the character. He could just as easily have said, "To steal a particular item" or "to be the best thief in the world". Neither of those necessarily urge him to rob his partymates blind.

Silver Crusade

Right now I'm playing a CE Tiefling gunslinger. I've never backstabbed the party, stolen from them, or been a major disruption to everyone's fun. Do I play in alignment? Yes, and everyone at my table agrees. I do torture captured NPCs. I've dealt deathblows to downed NPCs as a warning to others. In one case a guy who attacked us at first level has been chained up and I've driven him insane over the course of several months (big in party joke there). I forced a wizad we encountered to release his familiar and took it as a pet. I get a lot of good laughs at some of my antics by the other PCs and the GM, and we have a good time of it.

The difference is I communicate with them and know what lines not to cross. We had to give a PC over as a prisoner once. I volunteered because a) OOC because that way I would be kept in check and b) IC by being turned over I would be closer to the killing when/if the PCs decided to kill everyone.

Someone can justify being a jerk by alignment, and can also justify being a team player in the same way. And alignment isn't the only thing. I've seen people be jerks and blame "it's what my character would do" or "I'm just RPing" as well. If your detracting from other's fun, don't do it.


Out of game communication is the best solution. If you're feeling a bit passive-agressive, though ...

Once he gets caught (he will), talk to the rest of the party and vote to have his character thrown off the team, removing his character from the game. When he complains, just say "It's good roleplaying." Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

Your characters have to know they can trust their teammates; you're putting your lives on the line on a regular basis. The last thing you need is to be missing a piece of vital gear because Kleptoboy went 'ooh, shiny'.

Sovereign Court

Dont worry about the bad blood out of game its already in game. Kick from party tell player to make non-D-Bag PC. If the player gets upset then kick from group.

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