Alright, I just got done with my second ever PFS meet, and again, I enjoyed myself. I had to use a Pregen of a level 7 Paladin, and the very first encounter I felt like I had an opportunity to do something AWESOME, and most likely receive praise among the entire table for doing it. Well... it just became a complete waste of a turn.
So, we enter a library/book store place, and we have to move all cramped like, because of how there are so many book cases all over. Well, combat eventually starts and I am in an amazing spot.
Enemy= x
Book Case= |
Myself= P
x|x|P
The bookcases are 5 ft in length in between and slightly going in 2 squares so we can walk inbetween them, and the reason why it's like a double to movement in this room. My turn comes up, and I reference my quick reference sheet for what seems logical to me, and I go with open and close a door, and also recall that I have a Push, Drag, Lift overhead weight capacity too that is associated with movement. I am all about awesome things and making a really awesome turn. AWESOME!
So this is what I wanted to do...
My turn starts, and I ask if this case is held tight somehow, and am told no
"It didn't have to be this way! Perhaps you lack a proper education on etiquette, so here, READ A BOOK!"
Move action to just push the book case over.
Book case gets all up on this dudes business and he either attempts to move back (obviously can't since it isn't his turn) or the case hits the other case causing that to fall over too onto the next enemy.
Then I wanted to take a 5ft step from my hopefully freed up space to give a nice vital strike to another buddy.
This is what happened.
My turn starts, and I ask if this case is held tight somehow, and am told no.
I push the shelf and I am asked to make a STR check, and get a total of 9 I think.
"It didn't work... that was your standard action, what do you want to do with your move?"
Is this correct? Should this action indeed be a standard action, and should it be a str check when I can pretty much push and drag a pretty great amount already without making such a check? I thought STR checks were for bursting things and stuff.
Beyond that, it seems up to the GM, but could my domino of cool have worked?
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So, first of all, book cases are heavy. Like really, seriously, heavy, beyond what you would expect. My lightly loaded, paperback shelves that are 3 feet tall by one foot wide, double sided, clock in at ~250 lbs fully loaded If I recall correctly. A 2 foot deep, 4 foot wide, 7 foot tall shelf, loaded with folios, is going to clock in somewhere upward of 1000 lbs. Possibly upward of 2000 lbs.
It is also going to be built very solidly, or it is going to collapse under it's own weight.
So, you can *maybe* move it without a strength check at strength 15, but it might take as much as strength 20 or more.
That said, what rules cover this? Absent any other rules, I would call this a bullrush with an improvised weapon. (PFS doesn't really have rules for feats of heroic strength.) Or else a Dirty trick.
So, to knock both book shelves over, you would need have between 15 - 20 strength, make a bullrush, (probably at a penalty) make a second bullrush at -4 + other penalties. I would probably make that -8 since you are effectively bullrushing the first enemy, the second book shelf, and the second enemy.)
And that is being a little bit generous.
At the end of all that, you would have both enemies prone, in their square, (or a square five feat behind them, if there is not a solid object) and with a pile of books / shelf on them.
Edit: This would be a full round action, since that's all you can do when moving more than your max lift. If the GM is really mean, it would be a full action to start toppling the shelves, and another full round to make their fall into an attack.
The Pre-Gen had a 20 STR, which means she could Drag 1600 lbs, and 800 Lift, but I was mistaken about their being a push. Perhaps pushing things is a strength check?
I would say definitely not a move action. You're basically using the bookcase to attack the enemy. Why would it be less of an action to push a 100lb+ bookcase at a guy than it is to stab at someone with a knife?
Clearly this isn't going to be specifically called out in the rules. So as you said it's up to the GM. If I were you I'd have asked ahead of time what kind of action he'd put it at.
The DC is debatable, but I would have called it a strength check as well.
Pushing is easier than dragging, and toppling over a 5 foot, 1000lb book shelf is much easier than pushing OR dragging one. You should not have had to make a str check, but I agree it should have been a standard action since it was an attack. I could see a reflex save being allotted to the enemies to jump out of the way as well. The str check shouldn't have been required though no
Being in a book store for the session, I was tempted to with ease push over a bookshelf, but I honestly don't know the materials and exact dimensions of the shelves in the game session. Then again, the sheet I doubt gives any detail for the GM to run that instance either.
So, I should always expect to do a STR check on this given situation? It still seems weird that I already reflect what I can do with having a 20 STR already with set numbers for pound limits, but I still need to roll a STR check. I guess dream situations won't ever be fulfilled =(
My main objective is to have a great time with everyone at PFS, and I think beforehand knowing some sound arguments for such an occasion can help bring about the rule of cool if need be. Seems table to table, but I figured in pfs they say reward players for their ideas, and I was crossing my fingers a little too hard maybe.
I'm that guy asking for details in the room so I can do the awesome even if it might be risky, because walking away with a great story to tell is worth it.
Its physically impossible for me to push 1000lbs of dead weight resting flat on the ground but if that same 1000lbs was fastened to a pool stick sized rod of steel and balanced upright then it would be very easy because tipping is easier than pushing. Same rules of physics apply to pushing over he bookshelf, just a lil less extreme
I suppose thats irrelevant in this particular case though because yur strength was high enough even to push that weight, tipping aside. Being forced to make a check is like saying that I fail at picking up a 20lb bag of dog food 1 in every 20 times I pick up a bag because I roll a 1. That's not how that particular mechanic works. There's no check because, as long as my str is not hindred for some reason, I can always pick up that weight