Upcoming Releases


Lost Omens Products


First, let me say I am not attempting to sow dissension or disatisfaction, or anything like that with this post. I am a loyal Paizo supporter, and have purchased a singular amount of Pathfinder/Inner Sea products (originally hard copy then switching over to PDF in the past two years) and have been extremely satisfied and impressed with the majority of my purchases.

That being said, and I will of course reserve final judgement until the actual products are in hand, but has anyone else noticed the "fall off" in the interest level/potential value of the listed upcoming releases, or even of the products that have recently been released? Inner Sea Combat? What makes this a necessary book? Is there really that much of a difference/addition of combat features in the Inner Sea that warrant an entirely new book? Or an alchemy book?

The reviews on the desert material (People of the Sands and the new Osirion book) were so universally mediocre I chose not to acquire them, which is actually a big deal, as I've been rabidly awaiting and purchasing each monthly digital release scheduled for pretty much the last two years, and have been happy with every one, even the "Blood Of" books.

I hope there will be such a significant surplus of NEW information to warrant a large, hardcover book devoted to the Gods of the Inner Sea when there have already been, what, five publications devoted to that area?

Speaking for myself, and I reiterate, this is for MYSELF, I'm really not trying to start any $hit here, I would be much more well served by some more area books that haven't been covered yet. Nidal, perhaps?? And I'm ALWAYS down for a new Monster Manual, I don't care how many I have. New monsters will ALWAYS get my money.

I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone else get the feeling the new releases are reaching for the pocket book? Maybe there are a lot of folks clamoring for an alchemy book...or an Occult Mysteries book. I'm not, that's for sure. But I'm just one guy.

With a pretty stellar buying record...

Just saying.

Liberty's Edge

Just one point for now. People have been clamoring for Inner Sea Combat since Inner Sea Magic hit the shelves.

Also quick question, what 5 books cover the gods of the inner sea? The only book I can think of is Gods and Magic.

Note, I too am a prolific purchaser of Paizo product.

I totally did not intend the alliteration, but now that it is there I'm leaving it.

Sczarni

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My personal opinion (as a cannon person) is that the current books are too crunchy. I could go through the entire inner sea NPC codex for an index on the wiki in under 3 hours. I much preferred the days of 3.5 pathfinder chronicles where a 64 page book would be 55 pages of inspired fluff and 9 pages of crunch mixed in.. at least two of them being new monsters

graywulfe wrote:


Also quick question, what 5 books cover the gods of the inner sea? The only book I can think of is Gods and Magic.

I'm guessing the OP means the 4 "faiths of" books, gods and magic, the faiths and philosophies, not to mention the articles in at least 14 adventure paths.


I feel the same way. I was really enthused about the whole 2013 product line-up, but this year there is really very little that interests me.
For the first time in ages I don't currently have any paizo products on pre-order at amazon. But the Occult Mysteries book looks pretty cool and is on my must-haves list.

Personally I don't mind so much because I have a mountain of stuff already to read, so with a quieter publishing year (as far as my interest goes), it will be a good catch-up time for my reading backlog.

I do hope it is not a sign that Paizo is running out of ideas for new stuff to do - with 6 years of publishing about Golarion perhaps the most exciting topics have already been covered. Or rather there are fewer exciting topics left to cover and so they must rationed carefully.


Personally, Inner Sea Gods is the book I've been most excited about since starting Pathfinder. Sure, Gods and Magic exists, but that only gives each of the core 20 two pages; the core 20 are covered in various articles in the APs, but those would cost over $300 to acquire; and the "Faiths of" series, while great for seeing how to RP a religious character, doesn't offer much in the way of specific deific teachings, church history, holidays, or saints.

Can't speak to other products coming out, but this is one I'll be picking up in hardcover as soon as it's out.

Silver Crusade

scrmwrtr42 wrote:

First, let me say I am not attempting to sow dissension or disatisfaction, or anything like that with this post. I am a loyal Paizo supporter, and have purchased a singular amount of Pathfinder/Inner Sea products (originally hard copy then switching over to PDF in the past two years) and have been extremely satisfied and impressed with the majority of my purchases.

That being said, and I will of course reserve final judgement until the actual products are in hand, but has anyone else noticed the "fall off" in the interest level/potential value of the listed upcoming releases, or even of the products that have recently been released? Inner Sea Combat? What makes this a necessary book? Is there really that much of a difference/addition of combat features in the Inner Sea that warrant an entirely new book? Or an alchemy book?

The reviews on the desert material (People of the Sands and the new Osirion book) were so universally mediocre I chose not to acquire them, which is actually a big deal, as I've been rabidly awaiting and purchasing each monthly digital release scheduled for pretty much the last two years, and have been happy with every one, even the "Blood Of" books.

I hope there will be such a significant surplus of NEW information to warrant a large, hardcover book devoted to the Gods of the Inner Sea when there have already been, what, five publications devoted to that area?

Speaking for myself, and I reiterate, this is for MYSELF, I'm really not trying to start any $hit here, I would be much more well served by some more area books that haven't been covered yet. Nidal, perhaps?? And I'm ALWAYS down for a new Monster Manual, I don't care how many I have. New monsters will ALWAYS get my money.

I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone else get the feeling the new releases are reaching for the pocket book? Maybe there are a lot of folks clamoring for an alchemy book...or an Occult Mysteries book. I'm not, that's for sure. But I'm just one guy.

With a pretty stellar buying record...

Just...

I somewhat agree with you, for a long time I bought almost everything they printed, Now I'm planning to skip the robot path completely...


As someone who owns the Inner Sea World Guide, doesn't subscribe to the Campaign Setting or Player Companion lines, and isn't a fan of having to buy and reference multiple books for tiny scraps of information, I have to say that I'm glad they're coming out with the Inner Sea Gods book. A single, large-ish volume that covers the most important facets of each god is a wonderful addition in my opinion. Much like how Ultimate Equipment was great because it put just about all the gear you could want into a single tome. Or how the various Bestiaries beyond the first compiled both completely new monsters and reprints of things that were previously only found in APs and modules.

Sure, it probably won't cover every deity/religion in vast detail, but it should at least be enough to get a much firmer idea of what the gods represent and how they act. Especially when compared to the short blurbs they got in the ISWG. Information on things like the various deity-specific Paladin codes, holidays, clergy, etc. will be nice things to have that will help add to the setting in my games. I'm sure there are others like me who feel the same way.

But I can't speak as to the other Campaign Setting products, just Inner Sea Gods.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

eh, haven't been too enthused with some of the more recent offerings, but the Numeria book is going to be in my downloads file the day it goes on sale.


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I've been an AP subscriber since the beginning, and added on the RPG, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion subscriptions almost immediately. In all that time the only subscription product I've opted out of was the Beginner's Box.

Many of the upcoming products are dropping off in terms of my personal interest level, though they may be drool-worthy for some. It does seem to be getting easier all the time to make jokes about upcoming products along the lines of "Butterflies of Golarion" or "Bakeries of the Inner Sea."

I'm canceling subscriptions long enough to pass on:

Spoiler:

Adventure Path
(August to January) Iron Gods

Player Companion
(May) Harrow Handbook
(June) Blood of the Elements
(July) People of the River
(August) People of the Stars

Campaign Setting
(June) Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars
(August) Technology Guide

Pathfinder RPG
(October) Monster Codex

Now that I've started, I imagine it will just get easier to pass on a number of future releases.


I only caught onto Pathfinder really around the end of the Shackles AP. I love that they collected all the deity articles in one book, especially as I really don't want to bother collecting the 3.5 AP articles

Liberty's Edge

Damon Griffin wrote:

I've been an AP subscriber since the beginning, and added on the RPG, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion subscriptions almost immediately. In all that time the only subscription product I've opted out of was the Beginner's Box.

Many of the upcoming products are dropping off in terms of my personal interest level, though they may be drool-worthy for some. It does seem to be getting easier all the time to make jokes about upcoming products along the lines of "Butterflies of Golarion" or "Bakeries of the Inner Sea."

I'm canceling subscriptions long enough to pass on:

** spoiler omitted **

Now that I've started, I imagine it will just get easier to pass on a number of future releases.

Everything you have listed, are items that have peaked my interest.


graywulfe wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:

I've been an AP subscriber since the beginning, and added on the RPG, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion subscriptions almost immediately. In all that time the only subscription product I've opted out of was the Beginner's Box.

Many of the upcoming products are dropping off in terms of my personal interest level, though they may be drool-worthy for some. It does seem to be getting easier all the time to make jokes about upcoming products along the lines of "Butterflies of Golarion" or "Bakeries of the Inner Sea."

I'm canceling subscriptions long enough to pass on:

** spoiler omitted **

Now that I've started, I imagine it will just get easier to pass on a number of future releases.

Everything you have listed, are items that have peaked my interest.

Almost the same for me. I buy stuff here and there, but technology, Harrow, Occult Mysteries have really peaked my interest.


@wulfe and wolf: Excellent. So long as tastes vary, Paizo should never take a significant sales hit.

One of the biggest complaints my group has about the campaign world -- and this problem is definitely not unique to Golarion -- is the Disney theme-park feel that puts Gothicland and HiTechland and Gunslingerland practically side by side. Run a Numerian android character as a gunslinger and you have Yul Byrnner in "Westworld", where nothing can go wrong...go wrong...go wrong. We just put blinders on and pretend that Numeria and Alkenstar don't exist.

Commercially successful campaign worlds have to be diverse, because not everyone wants to play in the same genre/setting. But it tends to break immersion in the world as a whole, and makes it harder to maintain interest in uninterrupted subscriptions.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I have to disagree. I am a huge fan of the Pathfinder Mythology, so things like Occult Mysteries really, really appeal to me. As for the AP line, I have waited for something like the Iron Gods since I first read Hyperion Cantos and then Distant Worlds. So for me, bring on new books!

Oh and regarding the Westworld thing...I see Golarion more like a Fading Sun setting. It is a forgotten World of the Second Republic, where Magic and Technology exist.


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Damon Griffin wrote:

@wulfe and wolf: Excellent. So long as tastes vary, Paizo should never take a significant sales hit.

One of the biggest complaints my group has about the campaign world -- and this problem is definitely not unique to Golarion -- is the Disney theme-park feel that puts Gothicland and HiTechland and Gunslingerland practically side by side. Run a Numerian android character as a gunslinger and you have Yul Byrnner in "Westworld", where nothing can go wrong...go wrong...go wrong. We just put blinders on and pretend that Numeria and Alkenstar don't exist.

Commercially successful campaign worlds have to be diverse, because not everyone wants to play in the same genre/setting. But it tends to break immersion in the world as a whole, and makes it harder to maintain interest in uninterrupted subscriptions.

I never understood this point of view. Why does it HAVE to be a choice between "Numeria/Alkenstar do not exist in MY Golarion" or "be forced from my players to play as android gunslingers in my Osirion/Taldor/Tian Xia campaign"? Just disallow certain classes and races, simple as that. I don't get why the mere existence of certain regions is somehow a huge immersion breaker, since they can be justified for in-game reasons:

-Alkenstar squats in the middle of a magic-dead wasteland, in-between two eccentric wizard nations. They also keep firearms artificially scarce.

-You don't see a lot of that alien tech outside Numeria because a) it's in the middle of barbarian land, so it's distrusted and rarely used by the natives, b) the Technic League is massively obsessive with making sure what is rightfully theirs does not leave the country (save skymetals, for profit), and c) you don't see robots stomping around the rest of the Inner Sea region probably because they literally cannot leave Numeria's borders for some reason.

Now I get that people can start to argue socio-economic stuff or babble on about culture spread or whatever and dispute the reasoning I gave above, but do you REALLY need to have a realistic reason to have those kinds of non-standard fantasy regions exist side-by-side in an otherwise regular high fantasy setting? Well, I don't think so.

It's your campaign, but pretending that regions like Numeria and Alkenstar don't exist is...eccentric, I guess.

On-topic:
Gotta disagree with the OP. The upcoming releases, ESPECIALLY the stuff for Iron Gods and Numeria, have never had me more excited and will probably convince me make several subscriptions for the first time ever.


Neongelion wrote:
Gotta disagree with the OP. The upcoming releases, ESPECIALLY the stuff for Iron Gods and Numeria, have never had me more excited and will probably convince me make several subscriptions for the first time ever.

So if Pathfinder returns to more traditional fantasy themes in 2015 would you then unsubscribe?

How much futuristic stuff should Paizo produce in the future to hold onto these fans?


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Jeven wrote:
Neongelion wrote:
Gotta disagree with the OP. The upcoming releases, ESPECIALLY the stuff for Iron Gods and Numeria, have never had me more excited and will probably convince me make several subscriptions for the first time ever.

So if Pathfinder returns to more traditional fantasy themes in 2015 would you then unsubscribe?

How much futuristic stuff should Paizo produce in the future to hold onto these fans?

I would unsubscribe, but only because money is limited for me for a good while. However, I would most definitely not cease buying stuff from Paizo after Iron Gods, regardless of whether it falls under science fantasy or standard heroic fantasy.


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And Numeria and Alkensar were always there.

I dont like "forcing things". Like old TSR/Wizards love doing...

"Wow monk is a new class... lets make monks now appears from nowhere in middle of Silvermarshes cause we want to sell more!"

"Dragonborn is now a core race... lets put dragonborn in the middle of Dark Sun, renaming it, even if that race was rarer than waterfalls in the desert, and sell moaaar book plix"

Numéria was always there... Golarion grew with it... it influences the economy of regions like Brevoy and the Worldwound "isolation"... its "organic" with the world... so when i charge that 20ft tall plasma bearing scorpion, i know i am more in the setting than EVER!

To me, it only adds to the imersion.


RafaelBraga wrote:

And Numeria and Alkensar were always there.

I dont like "forcing things". Like old TSR/Wizards love doing...

"Wow monk is a new class... lets make monks now appears from nowhere in middle of Silvermarshes cause we want to sell more!"

"Dragonborn is now a core race... lets put dragonborn in the middle of Dark Sun, renaming it, even if that race was rarer than waterfalls in the desert, and sell moaaar book plix"

Numéria was always there... Golarion grew with it... it influences the economy of regions like Brevoy and the Worldwound "isolation"... its "organic" with the world... so when i charge that 20ft tall plasma bearing scorpion, i know i am more in the setting than EVER!

To me, it only adds to the imersion.

I thought they kept dray as a rare thing like they were in AD&D just that it's assumed that PCs can be rare things.


RafaelBraga wrote:

And Numeria and Alkensar were always there.

I dont like "forcing things". Like old TSR/Wizards love doing...

"Wow monk is a new class... lets make monks now appears from nowhere in middle of Silvermarshes cause we want to sell more!"

"Dragonborn is now a core race... lets put dragonborn in the middle of Dark Sun, renaming it, even if that race was rarer than waterfalls in the desert, and sell moaaar book plix"

Numéria was always there... Golarion grew with it... it influences the economy of regions like Brevoy and the Worldwound "isolation"... its "organic" with the world... so when i charge that 20ft tall plasma bearing scorpion, i know i am more in the setting than EVER!

To me, it only adds to the imersion.

That could be considered a double edge sword though, even if I dislike things being forced almost as badly. While it's technically been there since near the beginning that just makes it that much more of a pain to remove for people that don't like that stuff.

Having a wide base of material before something gets tacked on to it at least makes it easier to discard it not only in a mechanical sense, but also because of the wide variety of material and fluff of the area before those things came out that can be used.

As it is for the people don't like robots and guns in their fantasy settings they pretty much have to invent two whole countries from scratch and hope they don't mess up somewhere if they have interacted with places in ways they didn't think about, or have to do additional editing if a future products includes more interactions with those places. It might work for people that stay strictly to an AP well away from those areas, but for a sandbox type of game it creates problems if players have a need to only quickly pass through one of those areas or inquire about them.

As the poster above stated about Golarion's Disney theme feel, I have to agree. Golarion feels extremely patchwork to me, even more than a lot of fictional settings that often seem to have some of that. It's like most of the places were created in a vacuum and then sewn together where they are in a mostly random fashion, and then they tried to figure out how their interactions might work well after the fact if they did so at all. It can be glaring.


Drock11 wrote:

As it is for the people don't like robots and guns in their fantasy settings they pretty much have to invent two whole countries from scratch and hope they don't mess up somewhere if they have interacted with places in ways they didn't think about, or have to do additional editing if a future products includes more interactions with those places.

Um, no. They don't. If the players never go to Numeria, they will never encounter robots or laser guns, especially if the GM doesn't want those themes in the game. I highly doubt Paizo is completely unaware of the fact of how divisive stuff like that in fantasy games is, so if future suppluments comes out that focuses on how Numeria interacts with its neighbors I'm certain they'll accomodate for those who are interested in the product but uninterested in the sci-fi elements. Or they'll just blatantly say "if it's not for you, then don't run it!".

Guns are even easier since they're so scarce. Just don't allow guns. It's really that easy, and you don't need to look at the socio-economic implications of no guns in the games because it can be assumed that the party will never run into people with guns, not because all guns have suddenly vanished off the face of the planet.

Quote:
It might work for people that stay strictly to an AP well away from those areas, but for a sandbox type of game it creates problems if players have a need to only quickly pass through one of those areas or inquire about them.

At that point it's a trivial matter to just say to the players "look, even though this is a sandbox game I'm not interested as a GM in delving into the alien technological rules since it doesn't fit my game. Can you guys stay in the River Kingdoms, or at least not to go Numeria?" If that GM is absolutely adamant about letting their players do whatever and that GM doesn't like Numeria's themes...well, he's being counter-productive to be honest. Either he talks with the players or he deals with them being in Numeria. Or he makes up a country in place of Numeria. Simple.

Quote:
As the poster above stated about Golarion's Disney theme feel, I have to agree. Golarion feels extremely patchwork to me, even more than a lot of fictional settings that often seem to have some of that. It's like most of the places were created in a vacuum and then sewn together where they are in a mostly random fashion, and then they tried to figure out how their interactions might work well after the fact if they did so at all. It can be glaring.

Sure, I can see where you're coming from. But it's brilliant from another point of view. While I wouldn't call it 100% realistic for these wildly different nations to be on the same continent, let alone as neighbors, they do not cripple one's suspension of disbelief (unless said person is looking for an ultra-realistic, simulationist medieval fantasy experience...in which case Golarion probably isn't for him). Golarion can accommodate nearly any kind of setting and not seem completely unrealistic.

Liberty's Edge

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Drock11 wrote:
RafaelBraga wrote:

And Numeria and Alkensar were always there.

I dont like "forcing things". Like old TSR/Wizards love doing...

"Wow monk is a new class... lets make monks now appears from nowhere in middle of Silvermarshes cause we want to sell more!"

"Dragonborn is now a core race... lets put dragonborn in the middle of Dark Sun, renaming it, even if that race was rarer than waterfalls in the desert, and sell moaaar book plix"

Numéria was always there... Golarion grew with it... it influences the economy of regions like Brevoy and the Worldwound "isolation"... its "organic" with the world... so when i charge that 20ft tall plasma bearing scorpion, i know i am more in the setting than EVER!

To me, it only adds to the imersion.

That could be considered a double edge sword though, even if I dislike things being forced almost as badly. While it's technically been there since near the beginning that just makes it that much more of a pain to remove for people that don't like that stuff.

Having a wide base of material before something gets tacked on to it at least makes it easier to discard it not only in a mechanical sense, but also because of the wide variety of material and fluff of the area before those things came out that can be used.

As it is for the people don't like robots and guns in their fantasy settings they pretty much have to invent two whole countries from scratch and hope they don't mess up somewhere if they have interacted with places in ways they didn't think about, or have to do additional editing if a future products includes more interactions with those places. It might work for people that stay strictly to an AP well away from those areas, but for a sandbox type of game it creates problems if players have a need to only quickly pass through one of those areas or inquire about them.

Numeria without crashed spaceship becomes, undeveloped Hill Country. Easy. Alkenstar stops existing and that section of land just becomes more of the Mana Waste.

Honestly, that was not that difficult.

Scarab Sages

There are already several kingdoms and countries available that can be subbed in. In fact there are several books about Lost Kingdoms available. All you have to do is plug in the ancient land that is now the Worldwound, with shaman, God-callers, etc right on top of Numeria and boom! you are done. And if the PCs ever do the WotR AP, then they will already be familiar with many of the aspects, but nothing precludes both lands from being that way.

Don't like Alkenstar? Plug in an ancient Azlanti settlement, or ancient cyclopean kingdom in the modern world. Not even any imagination or brain stretching really required.


Ok, I'm in the no guns, no robots and no space stuff crowd. That being said, it looks like there are a lot of releases coming up that I'll want. I'm more interested in magio-technology but very heavy on the magio part of strange lost magics of lost civilizations. Bring on Azlant, but make it magic heavy and weird.

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