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I mean, if I was a barbarian king with a big pile of money to commission the most badass weapon ever, with which to smite my enemies, I'd much rather get a +3 shocking burst, thundering, wounding weapon.
I'm baffled as to why a BARBARIAN king mightn't rather have a +4 Furious Courageous weapon.
No enemy's might can stand against his. Damage Reduction? *Scoff*
Because shocking burst and thundering on the same weapon is thunder and lightning, which is a pretty metal combination?
Of course, I think this also depends on who gets initiative...
Plus, doesn't have to be an always on weapon or item. Grenade AMF weapons, or one that is activated one to three times a day are probably preferable as then you have a choice when to activate it.
The rock idea isn't much better, really. The advantage of the weapon is that you can force someone to stay in AMF range because if they leave you get an AOO, and they can't just 5-foot step away from it.
Here's how the grenade idea works:
1a. Character switches to his AMF grenade, throws his AMF grenade
1b. Character throws his AMF grenade, switches to his normal weapon
2. The wizard moves out of the AMF
3. Wizard casts spell
The AMF Arcane Archer's arrow seems to make some amount of sense, but that's a really specific ability for a really specific class, which answers the question of why everyone doesn't just run around with that kind of item.
The Wizard doesn't need to ready, he can simply outmanoeuvre a martial character in the air. The monk doesn't get his fast movement, he gets whatever speed the spell or item gives him to fly. With no ranks he may struggle to travel at greater than 45' angle so he has to zig zag upwards. Meanwhile classes with fly as a class skill have a much easier time of moving about. They also have access to higher flight speeds via elemental body (100' air elemental speed). They can also control the range of encounters much more easily with dimension door. At high level you also cannot even perceive him due to the Invisibility/Mind Blank interaction.So far, I have never seen a wizard spend her standard to ready an action to move backwards when someone approaches. Which they still can only do at move speed, compared to the monk's run speed.
That said, I'm a little fuzzy on the flying rules and how this would interact - when the monk reaches the wizard and activates the AMF, will the wizard instantly fall out of the field or won't she fall until her own round? Can't bother to look it up at the moment, but regardless it should put some cogs in her wheel. If the monk actually manages to grapple, it can get really nasty.
There is a difference between being useful in an actual adventure path or similar pre-made scenario, and being useful in a hypothetical 1-on-1 battle.
I think a naturally-flying, grappling monk with access to anti-magic field (if that can be gained with relative ease) could be very viable through, say, rise of the runelords. Even in the final fight, Karzoug doesn't have THAT much room to maneuver that a 120ft charge anti-magic charge grapple is out of the question, and the result would be fairly devastating.
Actually, I just realized: You couldn't make an anti-magic field weapon.
Why? The moment you turned on the field, the weapon's magical effects would cease to function. Even if theoretically the anti-magic field couldn't cancel itself out, it would cancel out all the magical enhancement bonus on the weapon - and at that point any weapon special abilities would cease to function because the weapon no longer has the minimum base +1 enhancement required.
good point
As Xartherus said, it couldn't be done on a weapon or armor. I see no reason why it couldn't be done on a pair of gloves or similar item though.
I see a lot of people here basicly stating "you can't do that because its overpowered" which is not good enough for me. It seems to me that you certainly can do it, though it may be over powered. Xartherus had the right answer again when he stated that it would be up to your DM to allow it, but it does appear to be a lawful use of the rules.
I for one will certainly be trying this out on my players when they get out of hand and I just need to have a bit of fun for myself. Afterward I may decide to allow the players to spend their fortunes to own it themselves or I may decide to make it into an artifact, I'm thinking something of 1 time use like a philosophers stone.
Good idea man!
Because shocking burst and thundering on the same weapon is thunder and lightning, which is a pretty metal combination?
I mean, if I was a barbarian king with a big pile of money to commission the most badass weapon ever, with which to smite my enemies, I'd much rather get a +3 shocking burst, thundering, wounding weapon.
I'm baffled as to why a BARBARIAN king mightn't rather have a +4 Furious Courageous weapon.
No enemy's might can stand against his. Damage Reduction? *Scoff*
Barbarians are already metal enough without cheap thunderclaps to make them seem more intimidating.
Once you've ripped a spell apart with your bare hands or eaten it to become stronger, everything else seems lackluster by comparison. =p
Could you do something along the lines of a dispel on hit three times a day or something? That would help the mundane classes with utility. Kind of like spell sunder light I guess.
Could be a battle cleric and cast AMF, if you want to beat on skinny wizards. Just need some way to keep them in the field as well.
I'm not certain why it couldn't be placed on items...invisibility, other transmutation spells and such or their effects (for example, though not bull's strength, Belt of Giant strength does something similar, then you have boots of teleportation, Boots of levitation, boots of speed, which are also items centered on the caster, and of course, basically a very similar idea but different spell is what a cube of force uses).
We also have scarabs of protection which grant spell resistance, which if high enough could be basically very similar in effect, there are many items which may be personal or area effects centered onto a person which are on spell items, why not Anti-Magic Field?
It can't be placed on an item effectively because if you make an item that produces an antimagic field then the field will shut down the item, resulting in a an item that can't actually function (the moment it activates it would deactivate itself and the field would go away).
The best you could do would be to make an item that allowed you to actually cast the spell, but antimagic field is a bad tactic for almost all PCs to rely on outside of specific circumstances because it shuts down all of your items and buffs, which means that your magic sword, strength enhancing items, AC enhancing items, utility items, the works...all gone. Just useless.
This one has already been answered and backed up by an item already released by Paizo rules that creates and Anti-Magic Field that does not cancel itself.
As Xartherus said, it couldn't be done on a weapon or armor. I see no reason why it couldn't be done on a pair of gloves or similar item though.
I see a lot of people here basicly stating "you can't do that because its overpowered" which is not good enough for me. It seems to me that you certainly can do it, though it may be over powered. Xartherus had the right answer again when he stated that it would be up to your DM to allow it, but it does appear to be a lawful use of the rules.
I for one will certainly be trying this out on my players when they get out of hand and I just need to have a bit of fun for myself. Afterward I may decide to allow the players to spend their fortunes to own it themselves or I may decide to make it into an artifact, I'm thinking something of 1 time use like a philosophers stone.
Good idea man!
Earlier on the thread this was explained on how it works and why it would not counter itself...along with an example of one Paizo created for PF.
However, if the GM does not want to allow that magic item, or any like it, that IS the GM's call. No disagreement on that at all.
Well, if you are talking about AP enemies that is very different. They tend to be rather underwhelming.
I admit, a majority of my play against foes IN PF have either been via Module or AP.
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I teach why this can't be done in my advanced class; 901 Applied cosmic awareness and Womble field interaction. It isn't something the uneducated can understand. If you are really interested you could sign up for my 101 introduction to magic theory, but I only accept applicants who can pay in gold.
/just being silly.
@GreyWolfLord I'd like to check that item out. What is it that I may enter in the search bar?
@GreyWolfLord I'd like to check that item out. What is it that I may enter in the search bar?
thanx Squirrel_Dude
Now that I've had a chance to view the item, I gotta say it would make a way better arrow. I imagine it being one time use, much cheaper, but in all other ways the same
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I’d like to go back to the first question:
GreyWolfLord Thursday, 07:11 PM
Why don't we see everyone with weapons enchanted with anti-magic Field?Umbral Reaver Thursday, 07:44 PM
Try this for some fun: Arcane archer can place antimagic field where an arrow lands!That is a good answer. There is a problem, though. The prereqs for Arcane Archer include a +6 BAB and the ability to cast Arcane spells. I think the classic way to get there is to take 6 levels in Fighter and then 1 Level in Wizard, then Levels in Arcane Archer. If that’s the way you go, you won’t get to the Antimagic Field until you are higher than level 20.
Full BAB 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 10/Wizard 3 gets access to Level 6 spells at exactly level 20. You only lose out on +2 BAB as compared to going Full BAB 6/Wiz 1/AA 10/ Full BAB 3.
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Depending on how often the arcane archer wants to use it, might be better to go with scrolls (or if allowed, a custom staff or uses/day item), and ditch aiming for 6th level arcane spells alltogether.
I think a Gnome (magical linguist) could just go straight from urban barbarian or paladin or ranger or whatever into arcane archer.
Or, you could be a human urban barbarian archer to get all the nice superstition bonuses, make sure to have Cha 13+, take Eldritch Heritage (Destined) and BAM you're qualified, take two levels of arcane archer and the rest of your levels as urban barbarian.
EDIT:
Or, to synergize better with the Cha, what about:
Human Paladin to 6, taking Eldritch Heritage (Destined) (i find that bonus the most useful unless you go for greater eldritch heritage), then Paladin6/AA2, then straight paladin from that?
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It is possible to get slightly earlier access to AMF using Magical Knack. Means you're casting at 2 levels higher, and you'd have AMF available by level 11, possibly before taking AA levels.
This one has already been answered and backed up by an item already released by Paizo rules that creates and Anti-Magic Field that does not cancel itself.
The shield you linked activates an AMF effect for 1 minute as per antimagic field. So it creates the antimagic field and then shuts down (because antimagic field says it suppresses all magic items).
I was talking about how a "continuous" AMF effect would be pretty useless as it would be a constant effect of an item that was being suppressed by itself. Kind of like the difference between an item granting a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and actually casting bull's strength.
It is possible to get slightly earlier access to AMF using Magical Knack. Means you're casting at 2 levels higher, and you'd have AMF available by level 11, possibly before taking AA levels.
You might want to reread that trait again. First, it only increases your caster level for spell effects, it doesn't increase your spell access. Second, it doesn't raise your caster level above your current character level.
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It is possible to get slightly earlier access to AMF using Magical Knack. Means you're casting at 2 levels higher, and you'd have AMF available by level 11, possibly before taking AA levels.You might want to reread that trait again. First, it only increases your caster level for spell effects, it doesn't increase your spell access. Second, it doesn't raise your caster level above your current character level.
I stand corrected. I'll make sure to correct preconceptions elsewhere.
Also, @ Ashiel: If a magic item can temporarily generate an Anti-Magic Field without negating itself, then there's no good reason that I'm seeing why a permanent choice couldn't do so as well.
If you want another example of an AMF item (though it's from 3.5), there's this one from the last module in the Savage Tide AP, 'Prince of Demons' (Dungeon #150)
Price= 200,000gp
Body Slot- Slotless
CL- 20th
Weight- 60 lb.
"...A totem of negation is a one-use item that activates as it is thrust into the ground. At this point, the totem creates a 60-foot radius spread of dead magic, a region in which no spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability can function. The dead magic zone persists as long as the totem remains in place. An active totem of negation remains anchored in place via an effect identical to that utilized by an immovable rod, except much more powerful. []bThis effect is the only magical effect that can function inside of a dead magic zone created by a totem of negation[/b]. If a creature pushes against an active totem of negation, it must make a DC 30 Strength check to topple the totem- doing so leaves the totem of negation a mundane pole. A totem of negation can also be destroyed by damage, but it has Hardmess 20 and 600 hit points..."
This is a great concept, but not getting to use it till lvl 20 sux. Most games are over by then or getting pretty close. I'd like to just purchase arrows of AMF. Anyone put together what a quiver would cost?
Late to the party I know but:
I actually gave a sword with a static anti-magic field(shell at the time) to a fighter in a campaign 20 some years ago.
The party ended up hating the thing. Yes it was death to wizards, but between the spells it screwed up for the party wizard, the inability for the cleric to heal party members near him in combat and how it would mess up the thief's items so he couldn't backstab the other players hated him. The fighter eventually just left the thing sticking in the ground and walked away.
Although it did lead to interesting role playing. You know like when tenth level 1E characters came to a large canyon. Everyone else flys across with the wizard no problem. But not the fighter with the sword, nope he had to take the option of walking around for days... Because I sure don't know a non magical creature that can fly and carry 200 lbs of weight.
Not to mention what I did to the ally with the bag of holding that came to talk to him, and the debate they all had about what exactly that flying citadel would do if they managed to get him up there with it. (I wasn't going to crash it unless he came near the magical power source in the middle of it but they didn't risk it, they let the minor bad guy get away.)
Yes just like wishes, in our campaigns uber powerful items are there but they are also an invitation for the DM to have fun....
There were three Darksword novels _and_ a book for a the RPG, making four.Yar. I actually didn't know there were two other novels after the trilogy though until now so I need to go find those.I only knew about one...there's two?
I looked it up on Wikipedia after the discussion. Apparantly there IS a fifth one (the second one they were discussing) which is called Legacy of the Darksword. Read the trilogy, never read that one though.
Said fighter goes into a fight with a high level BBEG wizard, and plunks down the AMF grenade, thinking he's now shutdown the wizard's ability to cast spells. BBEG then uses instant conjure to conjure allies that rip said fighter to shreds because the fighter no longer has any magical defenses, meaning that the AC of the fighter drops to a rather pedestrian number, and has no magic weapon to overcome DR etc. Wizard then snags any other AMF grenades, thinking them to be a great tactic to get rid of pesky fighters that usually come after him with tons of magical defenses.
You can certainly make an item with a permanent anti-magic field. It's just an item that casts a permanent effect, it doesn't suppress itself.
There's a magical Torc in Drow of the Underdark that casts Anti-Magic Shell 1/day. Used for caster-killing, of course.
There's Dust of Negation in Lords of Madness. Dust, take it out, sprinkle in area, Anti-magic shell 10'r. Protection against mind-reamers and controllers, of course.
In PF Mythic Adventures, there's a staff that casts an anti-magic shell that is not itself suppressed by the shell. For caster-killing, of course.
In the Order of the Stick comic, there's a dragon that casts an Anti-Magic shell and promptly proceeds to own the elven wizard. Until said wizard gets extra levels and MDJ's the shell. It's a classic illustration of the fact that A-M shells favors big tough monsters much more then PC's. A-M Shell is basically ONLY useful as a squishy caster-killer.
Aroden's SPellbane can protect you against A-M shell. There was also a 9th level spell in 3.5 that let you cast a single spell while under the effect of anti-magic, but I can't remember the name of it.
A sword that radiated anti-magic could be neutralized by sheathing it and blocking the emanation thereby. Wouldn't be a problem for the fighter.
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From a 'realistic' standpoint, yes, there would be anti-magic gear everywhere in a magical world. Being able to negate the medusa's gaze, laugh at the dragon's breath while letting the ballista and archers with arrows that become magical outside the field fly, wade through the wizard's spells, negate the undead's energy draining, and all that stuff would definitely create a strong demand for such stuff.
Classes that do NOT rely on magic would particularly love this. Experts and rogues, with their edge in skills, would particularly clamor for such defenses in political arenas, which would negate the whole shapechanger/mind control paradigm from play. Fighters going against magic-using classes wouldn't mind this a bit, particularly if their class abilities actually gave them an edge (sadly not the case in many instances).
Fortresses and other defensive locations would likely have such things to stop magical means of infiltration, control and bombardment (dragon flies into mass A-M zone, convinced it will ownerz the mook soldiers. Wait, no spells, no dragon breath? Fifty vials of alchemist frost to the red dragon's face later against its touch AC, and it realizes that it made a very bad decision).
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The non-existence of this stuff is part of the martial-caster disparity. If there's something that shuts down an archer (high winds! no archery for you! flying foes/burrowing foes/shootie foes/incorp foes), well, hey, tough luck sucks to be you, you're useless and let the casters fix the problem.
But if there's something that shuts a caster down entirely? HOOOOOOWWWWLS of nerfage.
Despite the fact that this is ENTIRELY what a population who couldn't cast spells would do.
meh.
==Aelryinth
Also if you live in AMF, when the Wizard comes to drop shrunken lava flows on your town... your gonna have a bad time. And that's at level 5. Your town can be annihilated by a level 5 Wizard.
Townfolk 1: AH It Burns!!!! Heal me!
Townfolk 2: I can't!!! Why'd we decide to live in an Anti-magic field, our hubris has doomed us!
Townfolk 1: With my dying breath... I curse Zoidberg!!!
10 Cubic no. As many casting of Shrink Item as you can stockpile over 10 days (thanks Metagmagic Rod Extend, Lesser), they may yet learn fear.
Curse you bucket lines! Well... fine. I'll be back next time! At 7th level! With As many Max HD Bloody Skeletons I can manage to control with Command Undead (Several days worth!).
Your example falls flat for many reasons.
Dragon can't come into town and breathe fire. So it flies over at 1000 feet and drops boulders. With or without AM, it can drop boulders. The problem is that it can FLY, not that the AM field is there.
So, would the city want it to fly, drop boulders, AND swoop down to breathe fire and set the city alight? nope.
Ergo, another basic defense of any fantasy city is going to be shutting down the ability to fly over it, unless you somehow have absolute control of your airspace (i.e. powerful anti-air defenses).
Secondly, AM is nominally an emanation from a central point. If you close the windows and doors on a building, unless the AM is specifically set up as a blanket everywhere, it can wall off the field. Likewise/otherwise, making a 'hole' in the effect for, say, the local temple, makes strategic good sense. People aren't dumb, they want the benefits of magic when they need it, but they don't want the threat of magic which can obliterate them.
Your wizard example is another case of flying. He can't throw meteor swarms and fireballs down, which would do MUCH more damage, faster and more accurately, then his very dangerous task of gathering lava. He's not going to walk into town and chuck shrunken items everywhere (also note, it's going to be hard to carry all that shrunken rock...and if they are in paper form, nigh impossible to drop them accurately!). If he's doing that nonsense, one archer with a potion of flying runs outside the AMF, gets airborne and starts putting arrows into him from some distance. He's level 5, he's going to die. Elsewise, send up someone on a hippogriff to lance the idiot.
And you don't need magical ability to make magical items. CWI and Magical Artisan are all you need, plus a decent skill check.
Come on, apply some brains. You don't want an archmage bombarding you, but you want magic on your terms and time. How would YOU set it up?
==Aelryinth
Ok... you now you need to completely wall over your city to deal with level 5 Wizard. I picked that as an extremely low level example. At 7th, you now have a horde of Bloody Skeletons in your city. At 9th, you now have to deal with Lesser Planar Binding. Sure your city that has hippogriffs and what not is safe from random level 5 Wizards. It's still quite screwed a few levels down the line.
We form a line of buckets. Basic organisational skills for the win!
This is somewhat of a given if you're talking a real volcano, which can take a while to reach you.
Not if someone is dropping buckets of lava in the middle of your town directly.
You're essentially dropping napalm on the AMF town from the air, and this isn't Minecraft where Water spreads instantaneously and takes out all Lava nearby.
Hell, you could just drop the first batch of lava on top of the well and then laugh all the way to the town destruction.