Hello all,
The reason I'm posting this is I'm wanting to know if I did this correctly (Abilities,feats,points...etc.. I'm more partial to great initiative and to hit, then I'll work towards more damage.
I've been invited to play in a Pathfinder Society game. I'm new playing Pathfinder, currently just starting playing a monk in another non Society campaign a week ago. So a lot of the game mechanics/jargon are still new to me.
Dm for the Society game, is allowing 20 purchase points, pick core races/classes out of the Core Rulebook, 150gp starting money.
So I've decided to play an elven fighter. I've 24 points to work with because I lowered my Cha to 7.
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)
Dex: 18 (16, spent 10 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)
Int: 14 (10, spent 2 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Wis: 14 (10, 5 points spent to raise it to 14)
Cha: 7 ( Lowered it to 7 to get 4 more points)
Feats:
Agile Maneuvers (so I can use my Dex instead of Str and have a better chance to hit and also for the +4 to initiative and AC bonus)
Improved Initiative (Because I want an even better initiative)
Weapon:
Curve Blade, Elven 80gp.
Armour:
Studded Leather 25gp.
|
You want Weapon Finesse for your feat, not Agile Maneuvers. Agile Maneuvers deals with combat maneuvers specifically, things like grapple, disarm and trip, not basic attacks with the weapon.
Also, your Con score is wrong because racial modifiers are applied after you spend your points, not before. So it should be Con 13 (7 points to buy Con 15, then -2 for the racial adjustment).
Beyond the rules issues, though, I'd recommend considering dropping Int to 13 (1 point for Int 11, +2 for the racial adjustment), so that you have a point left over to buy Str 13. Using the curve blade, you will have no better source of damage than the Power Attack feat.
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)
It's worth noting that racial modifications to stats happen after spending points on them.
What this means is that instead of spending seven points to have a 14 Con as an elf, you'll have to spend ten (10 points to get to 16, then -2 from being an elf = 14).
-Matt
I think you want Weapon Finesse, not Agile Maneuvers.
Also, flagging for movement to advice.
So Weapon Finesse instead of Agile Maneuvers so I can get the +4 to attack.
Thanks
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Welcome!
Dm for the Society game, is allowing...
Er, if this is Pathfinder Society Organized Play, then the character creation rules come from the Guide to Organized Play, not from what the GM says. That said, the PFS rules are indeed a 20pt buy and 150gp starting cash. Other races and classes are allowed, but only if you have the appropriate books.
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)
I highly recommend either buying (at least) a 13 STR or getting it there soon with your 4th level increase or a magic item, so that you'll qualify for Power Attack.
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)
Uh, that's not how that works. You buy your stat, then apply the racial penalty. So to end up at 14, you would have to buy a 16 (which costs 10 points) and then the racial penalty knocks it back down to 14. If I'm following you right and you spent a total of 7 points on CON, then you bought a 15 and your racial penalty takes it back down to 13.
Feats:
Agile Maneuvers (so I can use my Dex instead of Str and have a better chance to hit and also for the +4 to initiative and AC bonus)
Um, that's not what Agile Maneuvers does. Agile Maneuvers lets you use your DEX instead of STR in your Combat Maneuver Bonus, which you use for things like Grappling. That feat has no effect on your normal attacks, or your initiative, or your AC.
You want your first feat to be Weapon Finesse, to use your DEX instead of your STR on attacks made with light weapons or with certain other special weapons, such as your Elven Curve Blade.Hope that helps!
|
|
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)
Dex: 18 (16, spent 10 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)
Int: 14 (10, spent 2 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Wis: 14 (10, 5 points spent to raise it to 14)
Cha: 7 ( Lowered it to 7 to get 4 more points)
This is a 25 point buy. You have to buy a CON of 16 (10 points) to get your 14 after the racial penalty. You might find this page helpful.
Welcome!
Dm for the Society game, is allowing...Er, if this is Pathfinder Society Organized Play, then the character creation rules come from the Guide to Organized Play, not from what the GM says. That said, the PFS rules are indeed a 20pt buy and 150gp starting cash. Other races and classes are allowed, but only if you have the appropriate books.
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)I highly recommend either buying (at least) a 13 STR or getting it there soon with your 4th level increase or a magic item, so that you'll qualify for Power Attack.
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)Uh, that's not how that works. You buy your stat, then apply the racial penalty. So to end up at 14, you would have to buy a 16 (which costs 10 points) and then the racial penalty knocks it back down to 14. If I'm following you right and you spent a total of 7 points on CON, then you bought a 15 and your racial penalty takes it back down to 13.
Feats:
Agile Maneuvers (so I can use my Dex instead of Str and have a better chance to hit and also for the +4 to initiative and AC bonus)Um, that's not what Agile Maneuvers does. Agile Maneuvers lets you use your DEX instead of STR in your Combat Maneuver Bonus, which you use for things like Grappling. That feat has no effect on your normal attacks, or your initiative, or your AC.
You want your first feat to be Weapon Finesse, to use your DEX instead of your STR on attacks made with light weapons or with certain other special weapons, such as your Elven Curve Blade.Hope that helps!
Thanks for breaking it down for me,that did help a lot!
I'll readjust the points for the Con.I'll have to ask the dm why we're not allowed pick from the other races.
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)
Dex: 18 (16, spent 10 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)
Int: 14 (10, spent 2 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Wis: 14 (10, 5 points spent to raise it to 14)
Cha: 7 ( Lowered it to 7 to get 4 more points)This is a 25 point buy. You have to buy a CON of 16 (10 points) to get your 14 after the racial penalty. You might find this page helpful.
Thank you very much Paz, that calculator is very useful. :)
I'll switch to Weapon Finesse and change my stats to below, using the calculator it comes to 24 points.
Ability
STR 13
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)
Dex: 18 (16, spent 10 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Con: 14 (8, -2 Elf Racial Trait, spent 2 points to get to 10.
then another 5 to raise to 14)
Int: 14 (10, spent 2 points & +2 Elf Racial Trait)
Wis: 14 (10, 5 points spent to raise it to 14)
Cha: 7 ( Lowered it to 7 to get 4 more points)This is a 25 point buy. You have to buy a CON of 16 (10 points) to get your 14 after the racial penalty. You might find this page helpful.
Thank you very much Paz, that calculator is very useful. :)
I'll switch to Weapon Finesse and change my stats to below, using the calculator it comes to 24 points.
Ability
STR 13
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7
Just an FYI, this is still over budget for a 20 point buy game (even accounting for your dumping CHA, you're at 24 points spent). Also (although I tend to skip it), you need 13 Int if you want Combat Expertise or any feats that have it as a prereq (mostly Combat Maneuver feats, also .
If you're going to go this route, I'd definitely look for a weapon with the Agile enhancement (if your DM allows it), because you're missing out on a lot of bonus damage you normally get from strength (Weapon Finesse only adds to your attack roll, not to your damage roll).
Yeah, you're really not going to get 14 Con on an elf without seriously sacrificing some other area. But with a d10 hit die, and maybe your Favored Class Bonus going to hp, you should be fine with 12 Con. I'd recommend a 20 point buy like this:
14/18/12/14/12/7
The 14 Str gives you +3 to damage, even before Power Attack, so you'll do very well even at 1st level. Definitely pick up Weapon Finesse and maybe Power Attack at first level; if you're really worried about hit points, grab Toughness instead.
Unless you have the books that have the options like dervish dance and the agile enhancement I would recommend that you not dump strength, and be a switch hitter with a bow and a sword. You can still be effective as an elf and a dexterity and strength focused fighter. Dumping strength has other problems too such as encumbrance. I think you might want to rethink being a fighter if you want to play a character with lots of skills, ranger and barbarian both do well in the 2-handed weapon style.
The calculator says 24 points spent to have abilities at:
STR 13
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7
So I'm not understanding why this isn't acceptable?
|
|
I agree with RDN: Power Attack and Weapon Finesse should be your starting feats. If you really want to be faster on initiative than your +4 Dex will give you, consider taking the Warrior of Old racial trait.
|
|
The calculator says 24 points spent to have abilities at:
STR 13
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7So I'm not understanding why this isn't acceptable?
Str 13 = 3 pts
Dex 16 = 10 pts (+2 racial)Con 16 = 10 pts (-2 racial)
Int 10 = 0 pts (+2 racial)
Wis 14 = 5 pts
Cha 7 = -4 pts
3 + 10 + 10 + 5 - 4 = 24 pts, including the points you were refunded for having Charisma 7. You're double-counting those, basically.
The calculator says 24 points spent to have abilities at:
STR 13
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7So I'm not understanding why this isn't acceptable?
Because the calculator is including the 4 points you got back from Cha, which means you're counting it twice.
First, just so you know, you're starting out with one of the more complex type of melee characters. It will be easier to learn the game mechanics if you go with the strength based character. :) With that said, dex based melee classes are totally doable. The Agile weapon property will be essential, which means you have to buy the splat book that Agile comes in. I forget which book that is, but I know it's one of the Pathfinder Society books. (Pathfinder Society Primer, Pathfinder Society Field Guide, or possibly Seekers of Secrets.) All three of those are great to have regardless, because they tell you more about the Pathfinder Society as it exists in the world of Golarion (as opposed to Pathfinder Soceity Organized Play campaign that exists in the real world). They also have some key items that you'll want to buy later on, so it never hurts to start early!
As to your build... There's an archetype of Barbarian called "Urban Barbarian" that might serve you better either as a 4 level dip or the whole way. It means buying "Ultimate Combat" in addition to your other purchases, but it will help a great deal. As an elf, you'll have lower Constitution. Barbarians have higher HP, and even a dip in the class will help you survive. The real reason I'm recommending Urban Barbarian though is that it has a unique feature. I can modify ("control") its rage bonuses so that you can a +4 to Dex or Con (or +2 to both) instead of Str. You don't get the will bonus when using the controlled form, but adding a +4 to dex would increase your attack and damage WITHOUT decreasing your AC (because the Dex increase counters the AC loss).
Barbarians also have 2 more skills (which helps give you something to do outside of a fight), and some unique raging abilities. By doing a two levels in fighter, 4 levels in urban barbarian, and the rest of your levels in fighter, you will have a good mix of feats and abilities while dealing an impressive amount of damage.
Of course, you'd almost have to go with the Elven Curve Blade for this build. That's just fine though. ECB is a traditional (and well regarded) elven weapon.
The calculator says 24 points spent to have abilities at:
STR 13
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7So I'm not understanding why this isn't acceptable?
Str 13 = 3 pts
Dex 16 = 10 pts (+2 racial)
Con 16 = 10 pts (-2 racial)
Int 10 = 0 pts (+2 racial)
Wis 14 = 5 pts
Cha 7 = -4 pts3 + 10 + 10 + 5 - 4 = 24 pts, including the points you were refunded for having Charisma 7. You're double-counting those, basically.
Thanks for breaking it down for me.
Okay, so this is what I came up with
Str: 12
Dex 18
Con: 10
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 7
24 points.
First, just so you know, you're starting out with one of the more complex type of melee characters. It will be easier to learn the game mechanics if you go with the strength based character. :) With that said, dex based melee classes are totally doable. The Agile weapon property will be essential, which means you have to buy the splat book that Agile comes in. I forget which book that is, but I know it's one of the Pathfinder Society books. (Pathfinder Society Primer, Pathfinder Society Field Guide, or possibly Seekers of Secrets.) All three of those are great to have regardless, because they tell you more about the Pathfinder Society as it exists in the world of Golarion (as opposed to Pathfinder Soceity Organized Play campaign that exists in the real world). They also have some key items that you'll want to buy later on, so it never hurts to start early!
As to your build... There's an archetype of Barbarian called "Urban Barbarian" that might serve you better either as a 4 level dip or the whole way. It means buying "Ultimate Combat" in addition to your other purchases, but it will help a great deal. As an elf, you'll have lower Constitution. Barbarians have higher HP, and even a dip in the class will help you survive. The real reason I'm recommending Urban Barbarian though is that it has a unique feature. I can modify ("control") its rage bonuses so that you can a +4 to Dex or Con (or +2 to both) instead of Str. You don't get the will bonus when using the controlled form, but adding a +4 to dex would increase your attack and damage WITHOUT decreasing your AC (because the Dex increase counters the AC loss).
Barbarians also have 2 more skills (which helps give you something to do outside of a fight), and some unique raging abilities. By doing a two levels in fighter, 4 levels in urban barbarian, and the rest of your levels in fighter, you will have a good mix of feats and abilities while dealing an impressive amount of damage.
Of course, you'd almost have to go with the Elven Curve Blade for this...
Well thanks for the heads up on this, I'll be perusing thru the books and reading up on this.
Dear Dark Vicar Currently as an elf your point buy is as follows:
Str. 2 pts, Dex 10 pt. Con 2 pt, int. 0 pt, wis 5 point, cha -4 pt = 15 points spent.
As a note your final point total must be 20 points spent.
I recomend a pre racial
13,16, 14, 12,12 ,8.
then with the elven modifeir it becomes
13,18, 12, 14,12 ,8.
Fo feats
1. Weapon finesse, power attack
2. Weapon focus
3. Toughness
|
|
Thanks for breaking it down for me.
Okay, so this is what I came up with
Str: 12
Dex 18
Con: 10
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 724 points.
That's way less than 24 points:
Str 12 (2 pts)
Dex 18 (10 pts, +2 Racial)
Con 10 (2 pts, -2 Racial)
Int 12 (0 pts, +2 Racial)
Wis 14 (5 pts)
Chr 7 (-4 pts)
So, only 15 points, total.
A better setup might be:
Str 14 (5 pts)
Dex 18 (10 pts, +2 Racial)
Con 12 (5 pts, -2 Racial)
Int 14 (2 pts, +2 Racial)
Wis 12 (2 pts)
Chr 7 (-4 pts)
Which is 20 points, and looks nicer for you.
ChaiGuy beat me to it. That's still the wrong point-buy.
Maybe try something like (post-racial):
STR: 13 DEX: 18 CON: 12 INT: 14 WIS: 12 CHA: 8
That gives you the pre-requisite for the Power Attack feat. You really should take Power Attack to make up for your lack of Strength.
Alternatively, if you owned Pathfinder Companion: Sargava, the Lost Colony, you could take Piranha Strike, which is like Power Attack for Dex based characters... except that it doesn't work as well with your two-handed Elven Curve Blade, since Piranha Strike doesn't get the 50% increase on two-handed weapons that Power Attack does.
Going first is great, but it's even better if you can meaningfully contribute to the fight on your turn. For a fighter, that generally means either dealing damage or controlling enemy movements. I'd encourage you to make sure that your build can deal damage.
I second what Castarr4 said, as well as the suggested stat array. If you want to two hand the weapon (and the only weapon that can be two handed with weapon finesse is the Elven Curve Blade) then get power attack. (The strength also helps you carry stuff, which is nice.) If you want to swing a light weapon with one hand, get Piranha Strike.
If you want to use a Rapier, you're probably better off not being a Fighter at all. There's a new class coming out that's basically the Pathfinder version of Errol Flynne. You can download the pathfinder playtest document for the Advanced Class Guide right now for free. That means you could legally play it in your game up until the book came out in a few months (at which point you'd have to buy the book).
Warning: It's called the Advanced Class Guide for a reason. Just a reminder that dex based fighters are a bit more complex. :)
Follow castarr4's advice. Ur gonna want power attack. Your also gonna want agile wp enchant ASAP unless u are going to be mythic.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Your also gonna want agile wp enchant ASAP unless u are going to be mythic.
Not necessarily. If he has, say, 14 STR, his damage bonus is already +3. At say 8th level, with a +2 DEX belt and a couple of level bumps, he'd have 22 DEX, so agile's damage bonus would be +6. That means that adding agile only gives him +3 damage. With Power Attack, a +1 weapon, Weapon Specialization and fighter weapon training we're looking at a total of 1d10+16 without agile or 1d10+19 with it.
Honestly, I'd rather add keen at that point.
Thanks for all the advice from everyone, I appreciate it.:)
I'm really not to interested on playing this game now, seems to be pointless to play a dex based fighter if everyone's pointing out that it's not going to be any good. After looking at all the feats, it seems everyone agrees on taking the same ones, so I know it's not just one persons take on it.
I'm also wondering why the dm isn't allowing for tiefling or aasimar to be played but he wants us to sign up to the Pathfinder Society.
One thing I'm definitely not happy about, is all the money I've spent on all the books I have now.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm really not to interested on playing this game now, seems to be pointless to play a dex based fighter if everyone's pointing out that it's not going to be any good.
For some people on the internet, anything less than the absolute most possible is completely worthless.
They are wrong, and you shouldn't listen to them. An elven DEX-based fighter with an elven curve blade is a perfectly solid choice.
After looking at all the feats, it seems everyone agrees on taking the same ones, so I know it's not just one persons take on it.
All you really need is Weapon Finesse and Power Attack. Do as you please with the rest of your feats and you'll still have a solid character.
I'm also wondering why the dm isn't allowing for tiefling or aasimar to be played but he wants us to sign up to the Pathfinder Society.
If he's hosting a non-public, invitation-only game in his home or other private venue, he can add extra restrictions (if I remember correctly). If it's a public game, though, he shouldn't be doing that.
One thing I'm definitely not happy about, is all the money I've spent on all the books I have now.
Don't give up so quick; the internet is dumb. ;)
Elven curve blade is two handed weapon that can be used with weapon finesse, is a good choice for dex fighters
I'm really not to interested on playing this game now, seems to be pointless to play a dex based fighter if everyone's pointing out that it's not going to be any good.For some people on the internet, anything less than the absolute most possible is completely worthless.
They are wrong, and you shouldn't listen to them. An elven DEX-based fighter with an elven curve blade is a perfectly solid choice.
After looking at all the feats, it seems everyone agrees on taking the same ones, so I know it's not just one persons take on it.All you really need is Weapon Finesse and Power Attack. Do as you please with the rest of your feats and you'll still have a solid character.
I'm also wondering why the dm isn't allowing for tiefling or aasimar to be played but he wants us to sign up to the Pathfinder Society.If he's hosting a non-public, invitation-only game in his home or other private venue, he can add extra restrictions (if I remember correctly). If it's a public game, though, he shouldn't be doing that.
One thing I'm definitely not happy about, is all the money I've spent on all the books I have now.Don't give up so quick; the internet is dumb. ;)
Sorry Jiggy new to this, I should have stated this, It's public. He's pushing that everything has to be official/by the book.
We're not saying that a Dex fighter build isn't good. You end up with higher AC, better Ref, higher initiative, and only a slight hit to your damage output... but you still should take Power Attack/Piranha Strike, or your damage ends up way behind.
We're trying to help you out with the build that you want to play, which is a Dex based elf fighter. We're suggesting that you change one of your feats from Improved Initiative to Power Attack. We're also suggesting a different ability score array (both to make your stats a legal 20 pt buy and to be better in general). At no point did anyone say "Don't play a Dex based fighter because it's terrible."
Sure, it's not optimal, but you don't have to be optimal to have fun or be effective.
Edit: Both feats, actually. You should have both power attack and weapon finesse.
Thanks for all the advice from everyone, I appreciate it.:)
I'm really not to interested on playing this game now, seems to be pointless to play a dex based fighter if everyone's pointing out that it's not going to be any good. After looking at all the feats, it seems everyone agrees on taking the same ones, so I know it's not just one persons take on it.
I'm also wondering why the dm isn't allowing for tiefling or aasimar to be played but he wants us to sign up to the Pathfinder Society.
One thing I'm definitely not happy about, is all the money I've spent on all the books I have now.
Who is everyone? that dex based build is perfectly viable. You exchange some damage for more Ac and reflex save.
We're not saying that a Dex fighter build isn't good. You end up with higher AC, better Ref, higher initiative, and only a slight hit to your damage output... but you still should take Power Attack/Piranha Strike, or your damage ends up way behind.
We're trying to help you out with the build that you want to play, which is a Dex based elf fighter. We're suggesting that you change one of your feats from Improved Initiative to Power Attack. We're also suggesting a different ability score array (both to make your stats a legal 20 pt buy and to be better in general). At no point did anyone say "Don't play a Dex based fighter because it's terrible."
Sure, it's not optimal, but you don't have to be optimal to have fun or be effective.
Edit: Both feats, actually. You should have both power attack and weapon finesse.
Totally agree here. take improved initiative as your second feat. Power attack DO matters for two handers.
Yes. I was offering alternatives. I didn't mean to say that the current build wasn't viable. Sorry for implying that.
20 point buy
Str 14
Dex 18
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 7
Level 1 feats: Weapon Finesse, Power Attack
You were wanting Improved Initiative, take it at level 2, then after that take whatever feats tickle your fancy, you will have a very solid foundation for your character. I would recommend Improved Critical for your weapon later on when you qualify for it, possibly with some critical feats added on (they are fun). ;)
Your damage at 1st level with power attack: 1d10+6 with a +4 to the attack roll, that is solid my friend. Play the character you want and enjoy. :)
|
Just putting the link to the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (PFRPG) PDF.
@Dark Vicar, you would want to read the guide. It contains all information you need to play a Pathfinder Society game.
And you can wait until level 2 or so to pick up Power Attack if you want Improved Initiative. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't take Power Attack before Weapon Finesse though, since that would kill your to-hit rolls.
Yes. I was offering alternatives. I didn't mean to say that the current build wasn't viable. Sorry for implying that.
No I didn't take it that way at all, and thank you all very much for the build suggestions. :)
I'll be playing this coming Sunday. I'll play a few sessions to get familiar with the basics.
|
Str: 12 (10, 2 points spent to raise it to 12)I highly recommend either buying (at least) a 13 STR or getting it there soon with your 4th level increase or a magic item, so that you'll qualify for Power Attack.
The more irksome long-term problem for the 2hPA elf frontliner is a a steadily widening relative lack of hitpoints and AC versus the S&B fighter, and inability to effectively exploit reach weapons (as the low-AC 2hPA barbarian would).
Spending 10 build points for a 16>14 CON in a CON-dumping race is a classic example of catering to a race's weaknesses rather than strengths (i.e., similar to making a dwarf bard).
Basically, he's MAD in his physical stats as a DEX-fighter compared to TWF short swords or wakizashis Piranha Strike warriors (who take a while to get their Agile weapons, but are in super-cruise mode thereafter).
That said, the curve blade is a good back-up melee weapon for an elven archery ranger dealing with bow-sundering favored enemies (thereby juicing numerical bonus to damage via extended threat in a Keen weapon).