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Again, just a theory, but something I've been thinking about ...
The feat, Extra Traits, gives you two traits. So f=2t
The feat, Open Minded, gives you 5 skill points. So f=5s
Applying math, that means 2t=5s, or t=2.5s ... standard D&D rules, round down, 1t=2s.
Now, assuming all this is true ... what kind of disasters might result if we put it into play, letting these go both ways? Spending 2 skill points for a trait? Five for a feat? Converting your two starting traits (assuming they're given) for 4 skill points or a feat?
The problem when you start assigning values to things like this (and the problem in having so many choices in the first place, not to mention the bane of game designers everywhere) is the issue created when certain decisions complement each other and have a synergistic effect.
The worst that I can envisage happening is certain feats that require a number of prerequisites suddenly become available far too early. That's always a danger anyway with decentralized development, though, such as when developer A adds a feat and says "I gave it lots of prereqs, so no danger of anyone getting that one at Level 1" and developer B then goes and invents a way to gain extra feats ;)
The short answer: This is why RPGs end up leaning on rule zero so much. So many things look great on paper, but can end up being abused by someone who really puts their mind to it. As soon as the game gets more complicated than moving chess pieces, you lose the ability to check every possible option is balanced.
The long answer: The best you can hope for is sitting down and going through every possible combination this could produce, either manually or through an automated process.
My personal answer: Eh, looks okay to me, playtest it and see what happens in practice :)
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Looks useful and fun as a way for players to customize and just add the caveat that all purchases require GM approval
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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One possible unintended consequence: the rogue now gets a bonus feat every level and still has more skill points than the fighter (3 left over after spending 5).
I'm not judging this as good or bad, it's just an observation.
Why not also take the favored class 1 hp = 1 skill point and allow conversions there too?
Again, just a theory, but something I've been thinking about ...
The feat, Extra Traits, gives you two traits. So f=2t
The feat, Open Minded, gives you 5 skill points. So f=5sApplying math, that means 2t=5s, or t=2.5s ... standard D&D rules, round down, 1t=2s.
Now, assuming all this is true ... what kind of disasters might result if we put it into play, letting these go both ways? Spending 2 skill points for a trait? Five for a feat? Converting your two starting traits (assuming they're given) for 4 skill points or a feat?
Note that many traits give you a +3 net skill plus, so I think rounding down is incorrect.
It's more 3skt= 1t
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(As a note, PF Open Minded works differently, to avoid being as powerful in concert with how class skills work.)
Either way, the reason that that doesn't work out right is that even if Open Minded (3.5 version) is worth a feat, it's not worth as much as your best possible feat choice. Imagine that you gave a character a choice, A or B.
A) 3.5 Open Minded
B) Their choice of any feat they qualify for.
Obviously, pretty much every character would choose B, especially past level 1. And when you let somebody trade five skill points for a feat, that's exactly the choice that you're offering them. They can have five skill points, or they can have a feat. If Open Minded was such a good feat that every character was strongly considering taking it, then the trade would be fair. Otherwise, not so much.
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You're dangerously close to making the Rogue class worth a crap there pal...I think you better just cool it...
On a serious note I rather like the idea, might have to kick that around for a little bit.
I've noodled with this a little myself and came to a 3 SkP = 1 Trait mindset. Going the other way though, I think you could keep things semi-sane at the doubled rate of 6 SkP = 1 Trait. Likeswise 10 SkP for a Feat.
I like this idea in theory. I've thought about it much myself, as well, at times in the past. Dotting for later thought, maybe.
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You're dangerously close to making the Rogue class worth a crap there pal...I think you better just cool it...
*snicker*
Oh, forgot to mention ... for this system, you'd be allowed to accumulate skill points from level to level instead of use 'em or lose 'em.
The feat, Open Minded, gives you 5 skill points. So f=5s
Why not also take the favored class 1 hp = 1 skill point and allow conversions there too?
The Toughness feat effectively gives +1 hp/level, so if I take it as my 11th level feat, I now have enough HP to take two more feats, and still have 1 extra HP left over (or take four "free" feats by level 20!)
By allowing conversions like these, you'll likely run into many problems like the above, potentially including infinite loops. This was merely the first example that popped to mind. In any case, it's a good reason why such numbers can't be exchanged by default.
Or, to further up the ridiculousness: The Armor of the Pit feat gives a tiefling a +2 natural armor bonus. Does that mean that a tiefling could cast Form of the Dragon III (+8 natural armor bonus) and use it to gain four feats?
No. You're confusing temporary bonuses with permanent ones. This generally presumes that the trade is made at level up, like everything else of its kind.
There are game systems that use generic Build Points in this manner. Have you tried GURPS? It's pretty fun, though the built-in magic system is terrible--better to make a wizard with modular abilities instead.
Again, just a theory, but something I've been thinking about ...
The feat, Extra Traits, gives you two traits. So f=2t
The feat, Open Minded, gives you 5 skill points. So f=5sApplying math, that means 2t=5s, or t=2.5s ... standard D&D rules, round down, 1t=2s.
Now, assuming all this is true ... what kind of disasters might result if we put it into play, letting these go both ways? Spending 2 skill points for a trait? Five for a feat? Converting your two starting traits (assuming they're given) for 4 skill points or a feat?
So my human fighter can grab power attack and have 8+int skill points per level. (assuming f = 5s)
Idk what I was doing with all these feats anyways. Everyone stand back! The fighter is now the party skill monkey.
The feat, Extra Traits, gives you two traits. So f=2t
The feat, Open Minded, gives you 5 skill points. So f=5s
That would only be true if those were very common feats that most people were taking, sometimes multiple times. In reality, they are only situationally useful, most players opt not to take them, and those that do are in corner cases where it is more helpful than normal to do so. And traits are inherently limited so you can't keep getting more from the same category, and those diminishing returns prevent abuse.
Those correspondences don't prove that f=2t or f=5s. All they prove is that f>=2t or f>=5s. A feat is no worse than 2 traits or 5 skill points, but it may be better, often a lot better.
If I could convert my skill points into feats, it would mean my int caster would stop frittering away excess points on skills I don't really need but get anyway for RP purposes. Instead I would get feats that provide a strong mechanical advantage.
That's not how the game was intended. They intended for people to spread out their character advancement in different categories. Only if someone is willing to pay a premium and exchange their feats away at what would generally be considered a disadvantageous rate are they allowed to tip the balance.
The only way I could see this being fair is if you make the exchange rate disadvantageous in both directions.
For example:
3 traits -> 1 feat
10 skill points -> 1 feat
4 skill points -> 1 trait
1 trait -> 2 skill points
This is still kind of no fun, since it diminishes the flavor that each kind of thing is meant to provide, encouraging you to invest everything in feats. But at least having the exchange range penalize you in both directions makes it closer to fair than what you originally suggested.
Forgive my ignorance, what book is Open Minded in (and/or what's the text for it?)
It's from 3.5's Expanded Psionics Handbook (and thus their SRD).
Edit: Well, whoops. DSP changed the text when they updated it, pretty much invalidating my entire thing here. Well, anyway, the version I was using was just 'you gain 5 skill points'.
If we ignore the 3.5 splat material and instead go by PF, we instead have:
1 skp = 1 hp (fcb)
20 hp = 1 feat (toughness)
also, if it werent for the restriction on trait types, most characters would take extra traits. The good traits are worth more than 1/2 of a good feat nowadays. (wasnt there an ew one that granted 1/day reroll of any save? G%&*%#n)